Transcripts For BBCNEWS Verified Live 20240911

Of the build up to tonights crucial president ial debate in philadelphia, but were going top start this hour with the first real test of authority for the new uk government. This is the scene in the House Of Commons where mps are about to Vote are voting on the plan to scrap Winter Fuel payments for millions of Pensioners. Its been hugely controversial. It means that more than Nine Million Pensioners will no longer be eligible for up to 300 pounds this winter. Lets go stright to westminster and our deputy political editor, Vicky Young. Westminster and our deputy good westminster and our deputy afternoon. Just set Th Scene good afternoon. Just set the scene for hours. Mps have started that Vote and there is No Doubt it is going to be an awkward afternoon for the government but it is worth emphasising that this new Labour Government has a huge majority so there is no chance of them losing their state which means that this change will go ahead but, as you say, it has proved pretty controversial. The government is making the case for Means Testing. It is saying that not all Pensioners need to have this annual payment, that there are many who are pretty wealthy so, in that case, absolute funds should be really targeted at those who Need It most but of course the problem, as always, with the Means Testing, do you draw the line . And those just above that line, who might not be particularly wealthy, it means that they will lose out. So there is been an awful lot of controversy over the past few weeks. It was a measure that was announced in isolation before the budget at The End of october, so it has drawn a lot of attention, a lot of conservatives pointing out that this was not in Labours Manifesto before the general election so lets get a flavour of the debate. Here are a couple of the voices from either side. Couple of the voices from eitherside. Look couple of the voices from either side. Look to your conscience. These measures, you know, you know in your heart, no, i will not give way. You know in your heart that these measures are wrong. You know in your heart that the Party Opposite has broken their promises and that these measures are going to lead to untold hardship for millions of elderly and vulnerable people write up and down this country. We must fix the foundations of our economy, is the first step for Rebuilding Britain and making for Rebuilding Britain and making the changes our country desperately needs. And, because, when money is tight, our priority because, when money is tight, our priority must be to target resources our priority must be to target resources on those who Need It most resources on those who Need It most. Now, members opposite doffl most. Now, members opposite dont want to be reminded of their dont want to be reminded of their records and the state they their records and the state they left the country end. And ou they left the country end. And you heard they left the country end. And you heard that they left the country end. And you heard that from they left the country end. And you heard that from a they left the country end. Situc you heard that from a lot of Labour Mps saying that they have been full stint of this decision because of what they call the dire financial legacy which of course is very much disputed by conservatives who say that this is a political decision and not one that had to be made. Decision and not one that had to be made to be made. Exactly on that oint to be made. Exactly on that point the to be made. Exactly on that point the government to be made. Exactly on Thatl Point the government insists to be made. Exactly on that. Point the government insists it is about hard choices and sarah Keough Starmer said that again and the critics say to simply the wrong choice to save £i. 2 the wrong choice to save £1. 2 Billion. How many mps the Government Side are likely to Vote against or abstain and what are the likely consequences, do you think . I think the number of voting against could be pretty small. Now, you may remember that in a previous Vote there were seven then Labour Mps to defy the government and they were suspended from the parliamentary party from six months. We had from a couple of those theyve decided theyre going to Vote against this measure as well. So we dont know what the consequences long term will be for them. Then we have got the of those Labour Mps decide to abstain. Now, it is unclear what the sanction might be against them. There was a rumour going around, potential Labour Mps, saying that there may not be any disciplinary action at all. I think that would have swelled the ranks of those who are defying Keough Starmer on all of this. We will have to see but it is worth reiterating again that this will go through and i think the government preparing Labour Mps and i think the government preparing Labour Mp5 from more difficult decisions to come in the budget but it is worth saying that if this had been announced along with other measures that might have shown that some of those are the changes would fall on those considered more wealthy so, you know, have to see what happens in the budget but certainly you could sense the unease amongst a lot of Labour Mps today, even those who say that they will support the government at this stage. Support the government at this stare. ,. Stage. Thanks very much. Those are the life stage. Thanks very much. Those are the life pictures. We will return just as soon as the result of the Vote happens. Lets turn in the meantime to the us. Lets turn in the meantime to the us. Kamala harris and donald, will go head to head, in a 90 minute tv debate. There are just eight weeks left, until Voters go to the polls, and both candidates are both hoping to impress, particularly in the key swing states, like pennsylvania, where the debate is taking place. Our correspondent Tom Bateman is there. Deep in the american rust belt, a Rail Ride past some of the last of the left behind. Jack and wayne, men of steel. Gradually shrinking. They laboured at these vast steel mills for years. Wish it was still going. And there they helped forge americas future. But now thats all in the past. The democrats at one time was for the working man. Its not that way anymore. Today they hear promises from both sides, cast in the heat of this election, to revive american industry. I would believe donald trump. I dont believe harris. Shes been there three and a half years and has done nothing. Now all of a sudden, shes going to do something. You know, i dont believe her. One day shes against fracking, then shes for fracking, then shes against it. So i can tell which way youre going to Vote. Right. Heres the hat, buddy. Bit of a clue. Yeah. Im100 . If its an honest election, hellwin. The Election Trail has been surging through pennsylvania. It is now an intense focus of both campaigns. But just as the States Split is between urban and rural, it is also unequally divided among men and women. I meet kelly and joseph, who say theyll Watch Trump and Harris Debate on tv tonight. Well, i used to be a democrat. Not no more. I switched to republican, but i dont really go by that. I go by whats. Who says whats better. They are a couple who seem in lockstep on most issues, but watch where they differ. Whereas that abortion thing. Thats a womans right. That is not up to the government to decide an abortion. I dont believe in abortion. I dont believe in it, but that is up to each individual, not the state or the government. Last time trump took this county by a landslide two thirds of the Vote. He has rural pennsylvania under his belt. For harris to win, she has to hold on to the big cities and crucially, to win the suburbs in this state, pennsylvania, now the critical battleground area. Street by street, Door To door, pennsylvania is being fought for to the last zero of every zip code. The democrats urge their Voters not to stay at home. It is a day off for Gas Station Pump fixer bridget, who says she was compelled to the doorsteps to stop donald trump. Most people are concerned about womens rights. I know myself that is one of the things that are at the forefront for me. As a mother of two daughters, its incredibly important that they have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies for the rest of their lives. And back at the local ho, theyre strategising. Our freedoms are in the balance, because i truly believe that this election is so important for our basic freedoms, our basic democracy. Back with steelworkerjack for the weekly Music Bingo here. They say theyll be watching tonight the first debate between Kamala Harris and donald trump. In a place where life has changed, a Tv Moment Tonight with the power to change lives. Tom bateman, Bbc News, johnstown, pennsylvania. Here on Bbc News youll be able to watch rolling coverage of the abc News President ial debate simulcast. News coverage will start from eight pm East Coast time on tuesday and one am if youre in the uk, and the actual debate will start an hour later. The hamas run Health Ministry in gaza says 19 palestinians have been killed in an israeli strike on a designated humanitarian zone. Local reports say at least 60 more who were sheltering in the Displacement Camp at Al Mawasi, in the South West of the strip, were injured. Israels military says it targeted what it called a � Hamas Command centre. Mike thompson reports. Not long past midnight, devastation came from the sky. Eyewitnesses say at least four israeli missiles struck this sprawling, overcrowded Tent Camp along the gaza coast. Around 20 tents were obliterated, burying many who had been sleeping beneath sand and rubble. It wasnt until dawn that the scale of the destruction at Al Mawasi began to become clear. Deep craters, some as much as nine metres across, Bear Witness to what for many had been a night of horror. Translation we saw women and children cut in pieces. Many died. There are still people missing. Al mawasi is a designated humanitarian safe zone but that seems a meaningless term there today. This woman is the mother of ten children. Translation death surrounds us in every place and we dont know where to go. We are dying slowly. Israelis, please just kill us. Finish us off. We are not living. The Israeli Military insists it successfully targeted a Hamas Command and Control Centre at Al Mawasi. Every effort, the army also said, had been taken to minimise civilian casualties, using extensive intelligence, precise munitions and aerial surveillance. But thats not reflected in the many haunted faces there. Translation the israelis told us to come here. We believed them and came. But everything i had is now gone. Please find us solution. We are peaceful people. We dont have anything to do with the hamas resistance. L with little sign yet of a gaza ceasefire deal, the suffering of these people and others all Over Gaza goes on. Mike thompson, Bbc News, jerusalem. The Israeli Military says its investigation has shown it was highly likely that an american activist had been killed as a result of � indirect and unintended idf fire. 26 year old aysenur ezgi eygi, who is of turkish origin, was shot dead on friday during a weekly Protest Againstjewish Settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank. The us Secretary Of State Antony Blinken says her killing was unprovoked and unjustified. I think what we saw in this investigation is it seems to show what eyewitnesses have said and made clear, that her killing was both unprovoked and unjustified. No one, know one should be short and killed for attending a protest. No one should be the Life Address just for freely expressing their views. And ourjudgment is that the israeli Security Forces need to make some fundamental changes in the way that they operate in the West Bank including changes to the rules of engagement. Including changes to the rules of engagement. That was Antony Bhnken of engagement. That was Antony Blinken in the of engagement. That was Antony Blinken in the news of engagement. That was Antony Blinken in the News Conference L blinken in the News Conference with the uk foreign secretary. You are seeing the pictures there as we were hearing that. Pitiful house of Commons Chamber because we are expecting the result of that Vote on the Winter Fuel payments we were talking about right at the start of this hour. You can see both sides of the Chamber Pitiful so i dont think theyre that far away. As we were talking, this is been really controversial for the new Labour Government with that decision coming to make this cut to Winter Fuel payments for millions of Pensioners and making it in terms of a form that they will have to fill in to see if some of them are entitled to it. They say that they will save £i. 2 entitled to it. They say that they will save £1. 2 Billion and i think the about to happen. You can seejust i think the about to happen. You can see just those former mps lining up in front of the speaker so lets put the microphones up and hear a little of what is in the chamber. Ill talk to our deputy political editor in a moment or two that we are about to get the Vote. To get the Vote. Here we go. The ayes to get the Vote. Here we go. The ayes to to get the Vote. Here we go. The ayes to the to get the Vote. Here we go. The ayes to the right, to get the Vote. Here we go. The ayes to the right, 228. L to get the Vote. Here we go. I the ayes to the right, 228. The nose the ayes to the right, 228. The nose to the ayes to the right, 228. The nose to the left, 348. The ayes, nose to the left, 348. The ayes, 228. The nose, 348. He knows ayes, 228. The nose, 348. He knows how ayes, 228. The nose, 348. He knows how that. The noes have it. , � ,. , it. There we go. Lets go straight it. There we go. Lets go straight back it. There we go. Lets go straight back to it. There we go. Lets go straight back to vicky. It. There we go. Lets go straight back to Vicky Young he was watching that. It is always pretty difficult with this sort of snapshot of figures but your assessment . Assessment . Just to be clear. That is a Government Assessment . Just to be clear. That is a government when i assessment . Just to be clear. J that is a government when so this has been passed so that is the kind of big picture, if you like. Now, it is very difficult, on these occasions, to work out an abstention is because you dont know whether an mp has had permission to not be here or whether they had deliberately abstained because they dont want to back the move. The only broad figure we haveis move. The only broad figure we have is that there around 400 Labour Mps. You can see their 348 Voted the way that the government suggested so we will have to see who those names are untried to work out whether they were making a deliberate protest, if you like. And it is a clear win for the government as we thought there would be but there was a pretty heated debate for the last hour and a half about the rights and wrongs of this policy and just to remind you it is to means test the Winter Fuel allowance which had been given to all Pensioners but from now on will only be given to those who claim Pension Credits. So there was a lot of concern from mps was a lot of concern from mp5 on sides of the house and that the impact this might have on pensioner poverty. Lets talk now to the Labour Mp who is with me now. There was concern, even from some of your colleagues is that they would back the measure, but in a way they were calling for something more sophisticated. A Cliff Edge. So if you just dont claim, if you dont claim Pension Credit you lose an awful lot of things, dont you . Even though you may not be too well off . I5 even though you may not be too well off . ,. ,. ,. , well off . Is there a case for the government well off . Is there a case for the government looking well off . Is there a case for the government looking again . It has the government looking again . It has been a tough decision for the it has been a tough decision for the treasury to make and my colleagues for the treasury to make and my colleagues and i discussed this in Detail Colleagues and i discussed this in detail and colleagues and i discussed this in detailand we colleagues and i discussed this in detail and we back the government because we firmly believes government because we firmly believes in the plan that rachel believes in the plan that Rachel Reeves has on growth and on stability and unfortunately weve on stability and unfortunately weve inherited a £22 Billion hidden weve inherited a £22 Billion hidden Black Hole from the conservatives have completely mismanaged our economy and we need mismanaged our economy and we need to mismanaged our economy and we need to to mismanaged our economy and we need to to fix that and we will fix It Need to to fix that and we will fix it but need to to fix that and we will fix it but it will take time and fix it but it will take time and now fix it but it will take time and now were building those foundations and what i say to those foundations and what i say to those who will miss out on this benefit those who will miss out on this benefit is those who will miss out on this benefit is that there are other Nteens Benefit is that there are other means of benefit is that there are other means of help available and to reach means of help available and to reach out means of help available and to reach out to your Member Of Parliament if you think you might parliament if you think you might be eligible and you might et might be eligible and you might get help. That is today what we Voted get help. That is today what we Voted deliver. The get help. That is today what we Voted deliver. Voted deliver. The problem is, thou. H, Voted deliver. The problem is, though. For Voted deliver. The problem is, though, for your Voted deliver. The problem is, though, for your party, Voted deliver. The problem is, though, for your party, and i though, for your party, and some of your colleagues are concerned, theres been a lot of talk about making sure there is enough money to go round but those with a broader shoulder should bear the burden and you can see here that you cannot possibly argue that many of these Pensioners in that category. There was an awful lot fears that many will fall into poverty because of it. Had conversations into poverty because of it. Had conversations with into poverty because of it. Had conversations with Pensioners on both conversations with Pensioners on both sides of this, those receiving on both sides of this, those receiving the money and dont need receiving the money and dont Need It receiving the money and dont Need It. That is why we Means Testing Need It. That is why we Means Testing It Need it. That is why we Means Testing it to ensure that about this bad testing it to ensure that about this bad fairly and there will be those who believe that they may fail be those who believe that they may fall between the cracks and may fall between the cracks and may have may fall between the cracks and may have a slightly tougher time may have a slightly tougher time here and were sticking to that pledge for the Triple Lock on the that pledge for the Triple Lock on the pension and that is really on the pension and that is really significant and likely to go really significant and likely to go up in the next year, significantly. £900 rise in that significantly. £900 rise in that last year and another significant rise in the next year. Significant rise in the next year, too, so extra help available for Pensioners. But the choices available for Pensioners. But the choices they available for Pensioners. Emit the choices they made. There had not been very many announcements because the budget is coming up at The End of october but the other choice the chance they made was to raise for an awful lot of Public Sector workers and Train Drivers and many Train Drivers who are paid an awful lot of money and they are going to be better off and you are claiming money, Clawing Money back from Pensioners who cannot afford it. I Pensioners who cannot afford it. , ,. Pensioners who cannot afford it. ,. , it. I completely reect that. Look. Sort it. I completely reect that. Look. For the it. I completely reject that. Look. For the economy it. I completely reject that. Look. For the economy to l it. I completely reject that. Look. For the economy to grow we have look. For the economy to grow we have to look. For the economy to grow we have to have people in Work And Begot we have to have people in Work And Begot far too much people off Work And Begot far too much people off work because they were on long Term Sickness so by getting long Term Sickness so by getting doctors and work on paying getting doctors and work on paying our nurses what we should paying our nurses what we should commit means our nhs will improve how can the economy grow if they cant get around economy grow if they cant get around. These reserves are being around. These reserves are being completely depleted and neglected after 14 years of conservative government. We are workinu conservative government. We are working to conservative government. We are working to fix conservative government. We are working to fix that. Conservative government. We are working to fix that. Thank conservative government. We are working to fix that. Thank you working to fix that. Thank you very much indeed. That is the case that the government has been making. They have one Vote'>Todays Vote but might have persuaded enough at their Labour Mps, does not necessarily mean that Pensioners who are going to lose out will be onside. Thanks very much lose out will be onside. Thanks very much part lose out will be onside. Thanks very much part of lose out will be onside. Thanks very much part of a lose out will be onside. Thanksl very much part of a Government Majority of i20. Very much part of a Government Majority of 120. A reaction in the but our correspondent from bbc verify is here with me and how many poor Pensioners are affected by this . Affected by this . Theres been affected by this . Theres been a lot of numbers affected by this . Theres been a lot of numbers and affected by this . Theres been a lot of numbers and claims i a lot of numbers and claims being thrown around and i think it is worth as breaking it down. Lets with the number of Pensioners in the uk. Around 12 Million of State Pension Age and the number of people projected to be receiving Winter Fuel payments in this financial year was around 10. 8 million at a cost to the treasury of about £i. 9 Million at a cost to the treasury of about £1. 9 billion and you can see that they are quite similar. This is a universal benefit, Winter Fuel payment. It should be eligible for pretty much anyone above State Pension Age. What Rachel Reeves was proposing, what is proposing, is that only people who are in receipt of a benefit called Pension Credit should be eligible to receive Winter Fuel payments. You can see that is a big drop and it goes from 10. 8 million down to 1. 3 million. And that big drop is estimated to save the treasury and £i. 4 to save the treasury and £1. 4 billion. But the government also estimates that there are around 800,000 people who should eligible to receive that 200 £300 a should eligible to receive that 200 £300 a week Winter Fuel payment who should be at able to receive Pension Credit for it but they are not taking it up. This group is an obvious source of concern because they dont have a lot of money, theyrejudged eligible dont have a lot of money, theyre judged eligible for they� re judged eligible for pension theyre judged eligible for Pension Credit and yet they face losing 200 £300 from the Winter Fuel payment. Some analysts say that the number of low income Pensioners who are set to lose the Winter Fuel payment is actually double this. � payment is actually double this. ~. ,. , this. About 1. 6 million. So an even bigger this. About 1. 6 million. So an even bigger problem. This. About 1. 6 million. So an even bigger problem. And. This. About 1. 6 million. So an i even bigger problem. And which of those two figures, then, is correct . ~ , correct . Well, it depends, matthew. Correct . Well, it depends, matthew, and correct . Well, it depends, matthew, and how correct . Well, it depends, matthew, and how you correct . Well, it depends, i matthew, and how you decide what the level of poverty is and what the threshold for poverty is. And you can just buy the government was that figure or you can justify some of these other figures which have been used. Now, the government is trying to increase the take up of Pension Credit. So this Blue Bar should shrink but it estimates there were probably only increase this Read Part will only increase by around 5 . That would still leave around 700,000 people still not receiving it. It is worth saying that, if they did get all the 800 people who are eligible for Pension Credit to take it up that would cost the treasury around £2 Billion of it would offset the impact of the cuts to Winter Fuel payments in terms of the benefit to the treasury. It is also worth saying that the government has set up a scheme, a Household Support Scheme of around £400 million which supposed to be to help low income Pensioners who face losing some of this money and it is also worth saying that it wont only be low income Pensioners who use it may clue some of this money, it will be high income Pensioners as well and that, in the context, is why the government is doing this, matthew. Why the government is doing this, matthew. Ben, thanks very much, this, matthew. Ben, thanks very much. Thank this, matthew. Ben, thanks very much, thank you. A Space X Rocket has blasted off from florida carrying four people due to make the first spacewalk by non professional astronauts. Polaris dawn is also aiming to travel deeper into space than any crewed mission in more than half a century. Our Science Correspondent Pallab ghosh has more. Three, two, one. Ignition. For a moment, night turns to day. The Polaris Dawn mission lights up the skies as it makes its journey into orbit, higher than anyone has been since the Apollo Moon missions. T Plus 35 seconds into the Polaris Dawn mission flying crew onboard Dragon And Falcon 9 to new heights. Inside, four private sector astronauts. They are billionaire jared isaacman, whos paid for the mission and is the commander, his close friend scott kidd poteet, a retired Air Force Pilot and two spacex engineers, Anna Menon and sarah gillis. Stage separation confirmed. Applause thats the successful separation of the first stage. A critical moment now over, next stop, space. The spacecraft will reach a maximum altitude of 870 miles above the earth. Thats nearly three and a half times the distance to the international space station, which is 250 miles. Its orbit will take it through a region of space thats higher in radiation, called the van allen belt, which starts at about 600 miles. But the astronauts should be safe inside the spacecraft. Isaacman and gillis will be carrying out a two Hour Spacewalk below the Radiation Belt at 435 miles. The astronauts have been training for the spacewalk for more than two years. Theyll be wearing extravehicular activity, or eva spacesuits, that have been upgraded to withstand the vacuum of space. Spacex does not take this lightly. They know they need eva capability, the knowledge of the operations and the suit, in order to fulfil their long Term Dream of of potentially populating another planet someday. Thus far, really only countries have been able to perform a spacewalk, and spacex has these huge ambitions of getting to mars and making life multi planetary. And in order to get there, we need to start somewhere. And the first step is what were doing on this mission, which is testing out the first iteration of a new eva suit. Applause. The first stage lands successfully ready to be reused. Its so far so good for Polaris Dawn, as the crew begin to prepare for the very first private Sector Spacewalk in just three days time. Pallab ghosh, Bbc News. Stay with us here on Bbc News. We had a Special Report from afghanistan here on Bbc News. Hello, there. Itll change to much cooler, more autumnalfeeling. Weather takes place for many parts of the uk. Today the Cold Front has already gone through scotland. Here, a day of sunshine and blustery showers. Some strong winds around, but the Cold Front continues to work southwards across england and wales this afternoon, clearing the south as we head into tomorrow. With that feed of chilly air coming from a long way north. Now through this afternoon, it stays blustery across Northern Areas of the uk, with plenty of showers gusts running into the 60s of miles an hour across northeast scotland. Here we pick up on our Cold Front, bringing some patches of rain across the midlands through the afternoon, but The Rain turns a bit heavier and more extensive as it works towards East Anglia and southern england. Towards The End of the afternoon and on into the evening time as well, before the Rain Band arrives. 19 in london, not feeling too bad, but the colder air making its presence felt across northern portions of the uk. And eventually, overnight, that Rain Band clears away from southern england. We will continue to see blustery showers towards northwestern areas, particularly near to coastal portions of the uk. Its going to be a colder night than weve seen over recent times, with temperatures down to five in aberdeen, for example. Tomorrow, showers start off near coastal areas, but as the day goes by, well see those showers move right the way across the uk, some of them heavy and thundery with some hail mixed in. But at the same time well all see some spells of sunshine at times too. In the sunshine, probably not feeling too bad, but it will be a Cooler Kind of day. Otherwise, temperatures about 12 to 15 degrees and those temperatures are below average for the time of year. Similar kind of day coming up really for thursday. We start off with showers near coastal areas, but again, its a day where showers become widespread and move right the way across the country. Some of them again likely to be heavy with some hail and thunder, but not lasting too long in any one place. Given those strong, blustery North Westerly winds now heading towards friday and the weekend, we are eventually going to see the winds turn to a Southwesterly Direction and that will bring up some much milder air, so temperatures are set to recover. However, into the weekend, this area of low pressure is also going to be bringing some spells of quite heavy rain, particularly to the North West of the uk, where it will also be quite windy, so temperatures coming back close to average, 18 for edinburgh, belfast, cardiff, as we get into the weekend and up to 19 in london. But there will be some rain at times, particularly in the North West. What is going on in westminster. Opposition mps have failed to block Government Plans to cut the Winter Fuel payments for most Pensioners. 348 mp5 backed the Labour Government with 228 supporting the opposition motion. Vicki young is in central lobby. Tell us about the significance of those numbers. The significance of those numbers the significance of those numbers. ,. ,. ,. , numbers. Very hard to tell how man of numbers. Very hard to tell how many of those numbers. Very hard to tell how many of those are numbers. Very hard to tell how many of those are what numbers. Very hard to tell how many of those are what you many of those are what you would call deliberate abstentions because there can be many reasons why an mp might not be here, they might have been given permission not to be here or they might be abstaining because they do not approve of the policy. It is difficult to untangle until you speak to them to find out which way they were voting but No Doubt during the debate there was a lot of unease even amongst the Labour Mps who said they would back the measure, especially concern around the Cliff Edge whereby if you are just above the threshold which means you do not get the Winter Fuel allowance but you are a pensioner, they would not consider themselves to be wealthy, at that level, so concerned about that