A judge struck down the state's near total ban on abortion, saying north dakota's constitution gives women a fundamental right to choose abortion before foetal viability. Elisabeth smith is with the center for reproductive rights — the organisation that argued on behalf of the plantiffs in north dakota. Ms smith, thanks forjoining us. What's your reaction to the ruling? what's your reaction to the rulin: ? ,. , what's your reaction to the rulin? ,. ,. , ruling? this was an incredible rulin: ruling? this was an incredible ruling and _ ruling? this was an incredible ruling and it's _ ruling? this was an incredible ruling and it's the _ ruling? this was an incredible ruling and it's the first ruling? this was an incredible ruling and it's the first time i ruling and it's the first time thatis ruling and it's the first time that is stayed that totally bans abortion in the us, one of those 1a states has seen abortion be reaffirmed as a right under the state constitution. So this was not a decision based — the decision by boaters, this was a judge saying, no, the north dakota constitution protects a fundamental right to make a decision on polyatomic, free from government interference, this is a wonderful day for people across the country are dakota. �* ,. , , people across the country are dakota. �* ,. ,. , dakota. But you will be aware that this notification dakota. But you will be aware that this notification that that this notification that there will be an appeal? absolutely, we fully expect appeals to go up to the north dakota supreme court but the opinion that the trial court judge wrote as he quoted from is really strong and clearly lays out the case of the north dakota constitution protects da kota constitution protects the dakota constitution protects the right to choose abortion. Do you recognise there's tension here between the law as it is seen by this charge and by some of the states politicians who voted this law through last year? absolutely. And you've _ through last year? absolutely. And you've seen _ through last year? absolutely. And you've seen that through last year? absolutely. And you've seen that are through last year? absolutely. | and you've seen that are north dakota and we've seen that in states across the country. The vast majority of americans support abortion rights and what abortion is legal and accessible. And what we've seen in the 1a states where abortion is criminally banned is that politicians are completely out of step with their constituents. And in fact, in many instances, it is gerrymandered to state legislation that is making this decision again, out of step with the people living in the states. ~. , states. What practical difference _ states. What practical difference do states. What practical difference do you states. What practical| difference do you think states. What practical difference do you think this will make immediately for than in after koorda? —— north dakota? in after koorda? north dakota?— in after koorda? north dakota? ~. ,. , , dakota? we have to recognise that there _ dakota? we have to recognise that there was _ dakota? we have to recognise that there was one _ dakota? we have to recognise that there was one abortion i that there was one abortion clinic in north dakota prior to the decision which overruled rabey weight. That clinic has since moved and is not in north dakota. What this will mean is that abortion will be available in hospital and by certain providers but to restart a clinic and reopening clinic is a major undertaking. —— roe v wade. One of the laws like note the coda is to shut down axis by shutting down clinics and by setting providers outside of the state. —— north dakota. To reassert accidents they will be a major undertaking. You reassert accidents they will be a major undertaking. — a ma'or undertaking. You will be a major undertaking. You will be aware _ a major undertaking. You will be aware that _ a major undertaking. You will be aware that political a major undertaking. You will be aware that political this i be aware that political this issue has become, not least during an election campaign, you would watch the debate on tuesday night, how did you assess the two candidates as they spoke on this particular issue. I they spoke on this particular issue. . , , , they spoke on this particular issue. . , _ issue. I was by saying the centre for _ issue. I was by saying the centre for a _ issue. I was by saying the centre for a protective. Issue. I was by saying the l centre for a protective right is the organisation so we do know a lectionary but you see two very stark pictures of america. And i think voters have a real choice about whether they want to ensure that abortion rights are illegal across every state in this country or not. And as we have seen in every paul, the vast majority of americans support abortion right and one abortion kid to be legal and accessible across the country. What do you say to the argument made by donald trump and some of his supporters that this should be a matter that's decided at the state level? i decided at the state level? i think we can only look at the limitations on voting rights, limitations on voting rights, limitations on voting rights, limitations on democracy and the gerrymandering of state legislation is in states like my her state of texas to really demonstrate that that's not possible, the vast majority of texans support abortion right but texas currently has one of the most abortion bans that if you violated, you could potentially be facing 99 years in prison, criminalfines, etc so texans have no avenue. To affect what the law is on abortion in the state. And it is only the new federal ride either through a federal statue or a new federal constitution amendment that will ensure that everyone across the country can access abortion care where they live. . , , access abortion care where they live. . , ,,. , ,, live. Elizabeth smith, thank ou for live. Elizabeth smith, thank you forjoining _ live. Elizabeth smith, thank you forjoining us _ live. Elizabeth smith, thank you forjoining us on live. Elizabeth smith, thank you forjoining us on bbc i live. Elizabeth smith, thank you forjoining us on bbc news. The next issue we're going to turn to is the level of crime in the us. This came up in the debate and in the fall—out from the debate. Here's merlyn thomas from bbc verify. Trump has been going hard on crime particularly, the harris's racket on it. And this really came to a head on the presidential debate on tuesday when he said that crime was going through the roof and the abc news moderator pick them up on this and challenged him. Crime here is up and through the roof. _ crime here is up and through the roof, despite their fraudulent statements that they made. — fraudulent statements that they made, crime in this country is through— made, crime in this country is through the roof and we have a new form — through the roof and we have a new form of crime, it's called migrate — new form of crime, it's called migrate crime and it's happening at levels that nobody thought — happening at levels that nobody thought possible. As happening at levels that nobody thought possible. — thought possible. As you know, the fbi says — thought possible. As you know, the fbi says overall— thought possible. As you know, the fbi says overall violent the fbi says overall violent crime — the fbi says overall violent crime is _ the fbi says overall violent crime is coming _ the fbi says overall violent crime is coming down the fbi says overall violent crime is coming down in i the fbi says overall violent. Crime is coming down in this country _ crime is coming down in this count. , ,. , country. The thing is they are both referring _ country. The thing is they are both referring to _ country. The thing is they are both referring to different both referring to different datasets so, trump are correct, they are correct according to they are correct according to the national crime stats that were published today on thursday, after the debate on tuesday and the figures at the abc news moderator was referring to others published by the fbi and the only include crime reported to law enforcement. Crime reported to law enforcement. ~. . , enforcement. When i had part of bbc verify. _ enforcement. When i had part of bbc verify. One _ enforcement. When i had part of bbc verify, one of _ enforcement. When i had part of bbc verify, one of the _ bbc verify, one of the challenges when we take on issues such as this is the source of different sources of data and information on any given policy issue? data and information on any given policy issue? exactly and we've been _ given policy issue? exactly and we've been looking _ given policy issue? exactly and we've been looking through given policy issue? exactly and| we've been looking through the difference in the data sets and the nuances that they both come with an for example, the figures that trump quoted, they are based on numbers that are on a nationwide survey of victims of so they include people who might not have reported to the police as well and it's important to say that it includes 2020 which was a covid yes i remember, we don't know what they will have done to the opportunities for crime in that year as well and the survey does add, it must be said, the 2023 rate of violent crime was higher than those of 2020 and 2021 so, they also say it was not statistically different to that of five years ago in 2019. Crime and abortion were two of many issus that came up during tuesday's debate. But let's try and understand which issues matter the most to voters. Anthony salvanto, cbs news polling director. Thank you for your time. It's easy to look at the headline national polls but there's so much detail beneath them, let's start with what your understanding as of the major factors that decide which choice the voters make. Good evening _ choice the voters make. Good evening the _ choice the voters make. Good evening. The two _ choice the voters make. Good evening. The two you've choice the voters make. Good evening. The two you've been talking about are important but the one i want to start with and i'll show you theirs, its inflation and it's the economy, that something that most voters do say is a major factor and that something that most voters do say is a majorfactor and in fact, one of the reasons this race is so close is that for those who say, commonly that inflation is a majorfactor in their vote but also that they feel that their incomes are not keeping pace with inflation, they tend to be voting for donald trump in large measures. And one of the reasons to unpack that is that when we asked people how do you remember the economy, when donald trump was president, quite frankly, they're looking back passed over to pre—covid times and they are saying they remember it as good and so that's one of the factors actually underpinning a lot of his standing in the polls, it's inflation, it's the economy and the feeling, the retrospective feeling in the economy was better when he was president. And i'm curious, to these major factors vary according to whether a voter is likely to vote republican or democrat? well, they do, republicans are even more likely to say, not only that the economy as a factor but the economy is in good and part of that is the partisanship wrapped up, we see that a lot around campaigns but let me point out something that is pushing back against a little bit and i'll show it to you here on the screen and that is what happens when reproductive rights when abortion is said to be a major factor in people's votes, you see these numbers, you're getting very margins who then are saying they are voting for kamala harris, based on that issue. . ,. . Kamala harris, based on that issue. . ,. ,. , �* , issue. To a larger point, it's a combination _ issue. To a larger point, it's a combination of— issue. To a larger point, it's a combination of factors issue. To a larger point, it's| a combination of factors and issue. To a larger point, it's i a combination of factors and at some point in the campaign, you see that back and forth between what people should decide based upon and notjust what their vote is and that one of those factors that's helping out, kamala harris right now. I’ue kamala harris right now. I've not ask kamala harris right now. I've got ask you _ kamala harris right now. I've got ask you a _ kamala harris right now. I've got ask you a question you asked an awful lot because there's such a focus on this crucial swing states, how are things looking in particular in michigan, and wisconsin? tight, close, michigan, and wisconsin? tight, close. Even. _ michigan, and wisconsin? tight, close, even, you _ michigan, and wisconsin? tight, close, even, you can _ michigan, and wisconsin? tight, close, even, you can unpacked l close, even, you can unpacked your words and adjectives, one of the things that i'll show you in those days particular this is what i mean, i was point out the people, easy estimates like this, remember that all of these are within the margin of error, although these are highly dependent on what you classify as a likely voter. Things are tight and locked in at this point but there is some varian in her might actually show up to vote and that explains a lot of what you see in the campaign were often times, your scene and campaigns talk to some of their base voters because they want to motivate them. In fact, one of the real interesting dynamics that's gotten this race to be so close versus when joe biden was nominee going to be the nominee for the democrats is that there's been a social enthusiasm sends a mother harris became the nominee, they've increasingly been saying that they're likely to turn out and that's come up much the republican enthusiasm and another big factor behind that tight race. This and another big factor behind that tight race. — that tight race. As one more thing and — that tight race. As one more thing and it _ that tight race. As one more thing and it ask _ that tight race. As one more thing and it ask you, that tight race. As one more thing and it ask you, and that tight race. As one more i thing and it ask you, and 2016 and 2020, the polls had assessing support for donald trump and quite frequently, underestimated his support, presumably, the paul industry is looking at its approach to try and make sure that doesn't happen this time? i try and make sure that doesn't happen this time?— happen this time? i always emphasised _ happen this time? i always emphasised two _ happen this time? i always emphasised two things, i happen this time? i always. Emphasised two things, one happen this time? i always emphasised two things, one is to look at the state—by—state polls, one of the things that 2016 is that a lot of folks were looking at the national rate which quite frankly, from our point of view are upholding was spot on but in the states, you had a donald trump when in the electoral college that state—by—state contest, even state— by—state contest, even though state—by—state contest, even though hillary clinton won the national popular vote, i think now that is better communication about the fact that this is decided state—by—state and i'll certainly keep emphasising that. But number two, certainly keep emphasising that. But numbertwo, it certainly keep emphasising that. But number two, it goes back again to china, when you look at polls, look at the ones that talk about the likely voters because quite frankly, and start smaller percentage of people who might be on the fence about whether or not to turn out, pollsters always wrestle with looking at that behavioural aspects of this, will they want they show up? frankly, campaigns to was well and that's something that when you see the measures, you know that there's going to be varian's on that cliche about turning to turn out, that's what you see in the bowling and in the shifts in the polling and that's what you see this year. And that's what you see this ear. . . , and that's what you see this ear. ,,. , ,. , and that's what you see this ear. ,. , ~ i. Year. So helpful, thank you very much _ year. So helpful, thank you very much indeed. Year. So helpful, thank you very much indeed. Cbs year. So helpful, thank you| very much indeed. Cbs new polling director. One issue that we know is especially important in many swing states, — the one anthony was talking about is fracking. It's a technique where pressure is applied to shale rock in order to release gas and oil. And trump has been very keen to highlight that harris' position on fracking has changed from 2019 — when she was callng for a ban based on environmental and climate concerns. For more on this — here's ben german from axios. I think it's fair to say that the biden administration has recognised the need for the us to be a robust oil and natural gas producer and by definition, thatis gas producer and by definition, that is something that's going to include a lot of fracking. One thing that influenced is a great deal, the natural gas side is the fact that during the beginning of the russian invasion of ukraine, you had this european effort to move away from russian oil and gas supplies and us that were fired natural gas exports have helped for some of that gap, similarly when oil prices were rising and there had been efforts to move away from russian oil, you also saw the biden administration and encouraging producers to open the tabs even more so it has been a mixed message from an administration that is both taken unprecedented steps on climate change but also recognising the geopolitical and economic leveraged that our fossil fuel and economic leveraged that our fossilfuel production and economic leveraged that our fossil fuel production provides and from our political standpoint, that very little tolerant for rising gas leak prices and rising heating costs and from that standpoint, using the administration to make sure that it doesn't undercut itself on heading into these elections. — on heading into these elections. �* �*, elections. And you say there's been a mixed _ elections. And you say there's been a mixed message elections. And you say there's been a mixed message from | elections. And you say there's i been a mixed message from the biden administration, nonetheless, it is fair that this approach is a long way from what kamala harris used to advocate towards the end of the last decade? i advocate towards the end of the last decade?— last decade? i think it's absolutely _ last decade? i think it's absolutely right. Last decade? i think it's absolutely right. If last decade? i think it's absolutely right. If we i last decade? i think it's absolutely right. If we wind back to 2019 when she was running for her own campaign for the democratic nomination, ultimately they went to joe biden, she was among a fairly large number of candidates who all felt that they had to run to the left, to the political left and in so doing, she called for a ban on fracking. Candidly, not something that a little bit more messaging than it would be reality because outright banning would require an act of congress and is not enough political appetite for that or even close now, a ban on fracking was not the precision of the top of the ticket when she became the vice presidential nominee and she said at the time thatjoe biden would not ban fracking. And so that's something that is — her 2019 comments of this effect have certainly come back to be a big thing now that she is running her own campaign for president and republicans at every turn are trying to remind voters especially in the state of pennsylvania which is absolutely pivotal and a huge natural gas producer, they've been looking to remind voters that she wants to disposition. The mother h