Struggling with illness. Lately not so good. I _ struggling with illness. Lately not so good. I belong struggling with illness. Lately not so good. I belong to struggling with illness. Lately not so good. I belong to a not so good. I belong to a generation that is forever young. It was like that before i got to 80 forcibly got up in the morning and uad. nd the morning and uad. And suddenly _ the morning and uad. And suddenly you _ the morning and uad. And suddenly you felt the morning and uad. And suddenly you felt your age. Let's begin by going back in time. When do you think is a boy or a young man, when did you first understand the power of photography? my you first understand the power of photography? you first understand the power of photography? my father was a photographer of photography? my father was a photographer. For _ of photography? my father was a photographer. For the _ of photography? my father was a photographer. For the big photographer. For the big italian newspaper. Photographer. For the big italian newspaper. And i italian newspaper. And television. _ italian newspaper. And television. Of italian newspaper. And television. Of course. Italian newspaper. And television. Of course itl italian newspaper. And television. Of course it was during the regime the fascist regime. Mr during the regime the fascist reaime. ~ ,., during the regime the fascist reaime. ~ , , regime. Mr lily was still alive. Regime. Mr lily was still alive it _ regime. Mr lily was still alive. It was _ regime. Mr lily was stilll alive. It was conditioned regime. Mr lily was still. Alive. It was conditioned by that. Alive. It was conditioned by that he alive. It was conditioned by that. He used _ alive. It was conditioned by that. He used pictures alive. It was conditioned by that. He used pictures that| that. He used pictures that would normally be censored. And then he started to be a photographer. There were that have documents from italy. Did our have documents from italy. Did your father _ have documents from italy. Did your father give you your first camera?. , your father give you your first camera?., ,.. camera? the, was 'ust around the hus h in 1965 at the school, i passed by the world college of art for a semester and i realised photography was changing. The magazines were closing. So i thought we have to do something else with photography. In the meantime they started to be interested. The fashion magazines and design magazines. This period is 1960s, late 19605, this period is 1960s, late 1960s, they call it the swinging 60s when music, art, culture was changing so rapidly you were a part of that. It culture was changing so rapidly you were a part of that. You were a part of that. It was a moment _ you were a part of that. It was a moment of you were a part of that. It was a moment of euphoria. You were a part of that. It was a moment of euphoria. New. A moment of euphoria. New possibilities. _ a moment of euphoria. New possibilities. New a moment of euphoria. New possibilities. New life, a moment of euphoria. New possibilities. New life, new| possibilities. New life, new vision. Possibilities. New life, new vision we _ possibilities. New life, new vision. We have _ possibilities. New life, new vision. We have a possibilities. New life, new vision. We have a sense. Possibilities. New life, new vision. We have a sense of| vision. We have a sense of future. * ,. , future. But it strikes me, there was _ future. But it strikes me, there was something future. But it strikes me, there was something different about you because although you were mixing with celebrities, mickjagger and all the most mick jagger and all the most famous mickjagger and all the most famous musicians, all of the fashion models in paris and london, you seemed to have had a sensibility that was not seduced just by celebrity and fame. You want to do something else? wanted something else. For me, photography and media, it is not because i like black and white pictures, i am not an artist. I see photography as a media for political action. That's how i started to use it. Also pictures of fashion and advertising. Every picture is not political. Everyone, even a postcard is political. I think at a young age were very political and i think it is fated that your of the left. You strong opinions. And yet you entered the world of advertising, the most capitalistic form of communication. You are paid a lot of money by some of the biggest brands and businesses in the world. in the world. Never advertised the products. _ in the world. Never advertised the products, i in the world. Never advertised the products, i refused. In the world. Never advertised the products, i refused. You l the products, i refused. You had a very the products, i refused. You had a very long _ the products, i refused. You had a very long leadership with benetton. He had a very long leadership with benetton.. . benetton. He 'ust called me. For decades _ benetton. Hejust called me. For decades you _ benetton. Hejust called me. For decades you work benetton. Hejust called me. For decades you work with i benetton. Hejust called me. I for decades you work with him, the very beginning of the relationship when they said we love your work, we want you to be our creative director, did you say to them 0k be our creative director, did you say to them ok but i refuse to actually use photographs of your clothes, i wanted to do it different. Did you say that to them? ~ ,,~ different. Did you say that to them?.. them? we spoke. I never asked him for anything _ them? we spoke. I never asked him for anything special. Them? we spoke. I never asked him for anything special. I i them? we spoke. I never asked him for anything special. I was i him for anything special. I was proposing something and he said this of the right wasted the word. . . ,. , this of the right wasted the word.. word. The company always supported _ word. The company always supported you? _ word. The company always supported you? the i word. The company always i supported you? the company word. The company always supported you? the company was my biggest _ supported you? the company was my biggest anomie. _ supported you? the company was my biggest anomie. All supported you? the company was my biggest anomie. All the i my biggest anomie. All the managers hated me. My biggest anomie. All the managers hated me. Who was your bi est managers hated me. Who was your biggest supporter? _ managers hated me. Who was your biggest supporter? just _ managers hated me. Who was your biggest supporter? just mr biggest supporter? just mr benetton himself? biggest supporter? just mr benetton himself? benetton himself? very interesting. _ benetton himself? very interesting. When i benetton himself? very interesting. When i did | interesting. When i did propose, everything was shocked, shocking. Ithink propose, everything was shocked, shocking. I think do you think big people are more interested in this? you you think big people are more interested in this? you think big people are more interested in this? you were in control. You _ interested in this? you were in control. You could _ interested in this? you were in control. You could say interested in this? you were in control. You could say i'm i control. You could say i'm going to build you a campaign but i am not going to show a single piece of clothing. Let's talk about some of the pictures. You would use deeply controversial images. You would address the issues of racial diversity. You would address issues connected to illnesses like hiv, aids, one very famous image is of a man desperately ill dying from hiv/aids. It is not a picture you talk but you adapted it a little bit. You useditin adapted it a little bit. You used it in an advertisement. To most people it is an image that is very sad. Deeply depressing. These are emotions that once one associates with advertising. How does it work? how do you believe it works? that it helps? that it helps? thing is turbidity. _ that it helps? thing is turbidity, big that it helps? thing is turbidity, big cars, i that it helps? thing is i turbidity, big cars, glamour, success but that is not the world. This is life folded to the public to make them see how stupid the appetising people are. ..... are. Your motivation was to make people _ are. Your motivation was to make people look are. Your motivation was to make people look directly l are. Your motivation was to | make people look directly at the world that it is, at all of its problems? i the world that it is, at all of its problems? its problems? i realised so much money _ its problems? i realised so much money was its problems? i realised so much money was invested | its problems? i realised so i much money was invested and advertising for what? you remember any big advertisements of the time? but you remember mine.. , , of the time? but you remember mine. I. , i. mine. Everyone remembers yours. Eve one mine. Everyone remembers yours. Everyone who _ mine. Everyone remembers yours. Everyone who hated _ mine. Everyone remembers yours. Everyone who hated it. _ mine. Everyone remembers yours. Everyone who hated it. How everyone who hated it. How come? ~. , everyone who hated it. How come?. everyone who hated it. How come?. . ,. ,. come? what is your answer to that? i do _ come? what is your answer to that? i do not _ come? what is your answer to that? i do not involve come? what is your answer to that? i do not involve them i come? what is your answer to that? i do not involve them in| that? i do not involve them in the common _ that? i do not involve them in the common something i that? i do not involve them in the common something that i that? i do not involve them in i the common something that were not so used to. The pages in magazines used for advertising, for me it was information first of all. If you see something, you won't buy it. You see something, you get an idea. You had particular something, you get an idea. You had particular targets you mocked with your messaging. 0ne mocked with your messaging. One of your targets was the catholic church. Basically religion generally. I well remember one of your big posters which feature a priest kissing a nun. You live in italy. You are italian, you know the nature of the church. That is why. Know the nature of the church. That is why that is why. Were you deliberately _ that is why. Were you deliberately trying i that is why. Were you deliberately trying to | that is why. Were you deliberately trying to provoke them? i deliberately trying to provoke them?. * ,.. them? i don't find provocation motivation. _ them? i don't find provocation motivation. The _ them? i don't find provocation motivation. The outcome i them? i don't find provocation motivation. The outcome if. Them? i don't find provocation motivation. The outcome if it| motivation. The outcome if it does not provoke, doesn't make sense. Big art always did provoke something. It provoked a reaction. It provoked indiscretion. I'd to provoke interest. art. Indiscretion. I'd to provoke interest. Art. indiscretion. I'd to provoke interest. Art. Some people may think _ interest. Art. Some people may think that _ interest. Art. Some people may think that in _ interest. Art. Some people may think that in the interest. Art. Some people may think that in the end i interest. Art. Some people may think that in the end he i may think that in the end he allowed himself to be used because in the end whatever your desire to send a political message on your advertising, the bottom line is you were selling product and were very successful. These advent campaigns are remembered even today. Sold an awful lot of clothing thanks to you. Do you believe they were using you of you were using them? i believe they were using you of you were using them? believe they were using you of you were using them? i think i used them you were using them? i think i used them. In _ you were using them? i think i used them. In the _ you were using them? i think i used them. In the end, you were using them? i think i used them. In the end, yes. I you were using them? i think i used them. In the end, yes. Ll used them. In the end, yes. I did something that was not made before. Which you had the courage to do it. And before, they were all afraid to lose money. Afraid they would not make enough income. We never spoke about money. Never. Do ou ever spoke about money. Never. Do you ever think in your desire to confront the most difficult subjects and get people to think in a political way, do you think you went too far? think for example of one particular advertisement, it was for anotherfashion was for another fashion business. Was for anotherfashion business. I think it was in 2007 your big poster using be anorexic young woman and title on the advertisement was no anorexia. But the factors that was an advertisement for a fashion business. was an advertisement for a fashion business. There were a lot of girls _ fashion business. There were a lot of girls that _ fashion business. There were a lot of girls that were _ fashion business. There were a lot of girls that were upset. I lot of girls that were upset. What make it upset a lot of people who believed you were exploiting a human being and a vulnerable position. Wait you cannot please everybody. If you please everybody, you please nobody. If everybody likes what you do them there is no interest. You have to be unpopular sometimes. That young woman died _ unpopular sometimes. That young woman died a _ unpopular sometimes. That young woman died a couple _ unpopular sometimes. That young woman died a couple of unpopular sometimes. That young woman died a couple of years i woman died a couple of years after the advertisement. I wonder whether that means you feel in any way regret for having used in that advertising campaign. I having used in that advertising cam haain. . . having used in that advertising camrain. . , campaign. I could have used another 20 _ campaign. I could have used another 20 girls _ campaign. I could have used another 20 girls like campaign. I could have used another 20 girls like that. I campaign. I could have used i another 20 girls like that. The last thing i wanted to be is as is the gulf them, now if i did that picture i would use a mask. It is not the question of a name of a person. Itjust takes a so kind of humanity. The disaster of anorexia. Shes the disaster of anorexia. As ou the disaster of anorexia. As you reflect _ the disaster of anorexia. As you reflect on your career and we talked a lot about advertising, do you regard yourself as an artist? i think i am a photographer yourself as an artist? i think i am a photographer but i i yourself as an artist? i think. I am a photographer but i use photography to express what i think should be said. You once said, i think should be said. You once said. I read think should be said. You once said, i read this _ think should be said. You once said, i read this in _ think should be said. You once said, i read this in an said, i read this in an interview you gave many years ago, you set a photography is powerful, sometimes it is more powerful, sometimes it is more powerful than ironies. Surely your life, your commitment to sending messages with pictures says the opposite because you sent these messages about racial diversity, about confronting illness and death with compassion. Many human beings are not listening. You have not changed people *s minds and behaviour. Idaho have not changed people 's minds and behaviour. Now for examle minds and behaviour. Now for example with _ minds and behaviour. Now for example with the _ minds and behaviour. Now for example with the sickness, i i example with the sickness, i had a lot of people who i don't remember who they are or i've never met and they thanked me for what i did. A lot. I was very impressed by this. Think about your very impressed by this. Think about your own _ very impressed by this. Think about your own country i very impressed by this. Think about your own country of i about your own country of italy.