A journalist himself, his wife, he discovered, was actually a survivor, and a survivor of one of the worst abuses that fayed has kind of committed against these women. And he did some investigation and found many, many more women. I came on board at The End of last year. Ive had loads of experience in this kind of area. Ive, you know, interviewed lots of women of Sexual Abuse and domestic abuse, in the past. But when i saw the amount of women, over a significant period of time, talking decades, and the seriousness of the allegations against fayed, which id never seen Before, myjawjust dropped, and ijust knew that a film like this had to Be made. And i did wonder at the time why it hadnt Been made Before. And how do you approach those conversations with women who have had these experiences, when you raise the possibility of recording a conversation that will Be broadcast . I mean, its a long process. Um, you know. Uh, just thinking back at the Beginning of the year, i end up having these conversations first on the phone, and then my producerand i, cornish, erm, cassie cornish trestrail, we then go and meet these Women Face To face, and you can imagine the atmosphere at that first meeting. A lot of trepidation. I mean, i have to say, some of the conversations were Ones Id not come across and are quite specific to fayed. And you might, um, Go Into that a bit later in the show. But i had women who were petrified of even meeting us. I had women who insisted on meeting me here at the bbc, to make sure that i wasnt someone working for fayed, and that this was some kind of trap. Not the first time that a trap has Been hatched in that way against the women, let alone journalists. And then, even when that was satisfied, the amount of women who were petrified that these meetings would Be discovered. And then, when we filmed, that that would Be discovered. Um, and there was a real fear. And it wasnt unfounded Because, as you see in the documentary, some of these women have Been followed. They have Been threatened in the past. So its a slow process, but even slower Because of the amount of women that i wanted to have in this documentary, and that element of fear that id never come across Before. And given the trepidation that they were expressing to you, theres evidently a duty of care, as you consider whether to broadcast their stories. But presumably, theres also a duty of care that goes Beyond the broadcast, too . Absolutely. I mean, this is, i would say, an unprecedented numBer of survivors that have gone onto a documentary that ive ever seen. And with it comes massive amount of duty of care about those women, making an assessment, whether its the right moment for them to come forward and talk. And thats an ongoing conversation that we have very regularly with each of those women. And then, for us, we had this kind of system in place which, i have to say, i hope happens with all television programmes, with all independent companies that make these films, Because it is a privilege and an honour to make these kind of films and work with these kind of sensitive matters. And that is to make sure that throughout the process and throughout the filming over the months, there is support in place. So not only was there me, the director and cassie, the producer, on top of that, we had a therapist as well, who was engaged in order to talk to those women after theyd filmed their testimony. And also, as youd expect, throughout that period, Before transmission and after. And that was ongoing. And i thought that was a good example of duty of care in television. Doesnt always happen. Absolutely not. And its Been an evolution. I mean, through my career, i have definitely, unfortunately, done quite a lot of stories with women, mainly women, not entirely, whove experienced Sexual Assault and Sexual Abuse. And one of the things that struck me about your programme is i went into it. Well, actually, i have a tiny, tiny role in it, as a very, er, quite large faced, very pregnant, Reporter Standing Outside Harrods when the allegations were made about the 15 year old, and i was reporting that for Channel 4 news. But, but. But what. I went into it assuming that a lot of the people would Be anonymous. And what is amazing about your documentary is that so many of them, all of them have, um, waived their right to anonymity. And did you think, when you started, did you think that they were going to, or how did they come to that decision . I mean, it was a really long process. And youre right, having so many people speaking, erm, we call face to camera, showing their faces, on this kind of subject, it is unprecedented, and it was a long journey. I mean, when i started, i would say the majority of people did not expect to Be filmed, let alone show their face. And over multiple conversations, as the film grew and grew, more people then did decide to show their face. And that. Um, but what i would say on that as well, though, is that i kind of like to pull away from the idea of showing their face as something to, to hold up as a kind of, um, Best practice, Because i think weve nearly gone a stage further than that, where we accept that women are all different and have different lives, different family, different situation. And i hope that those stories will encourage other women, this story and others, if they have Been victims of something like this and obviously, in this case, fayed its ok to not have to tell your story fully face out. Its ok that later, you do or dont change your mind. Do or dont, yeah. Because i think now weve got to the stage, weve got kind of the metoo, when people came out on camera. And then i think weve got mayBe the post metoo era, where you can tell your story as you want to tell it, and thats ok, and its actuallyjust as powerful. It seems extraordinary that these allegations about Mohamed Al fayed werent published while he was still alive. Some journalists did take on the story. One of them is henry porter, a former Uk Editor of Vanity Fair. In 1995, he published an investigation into these allegations, and Hejoined Us in the studio. It wasnt as strong as ericas. Film, by any means, but it had started out as a positive piece. Graydon and maureen were tickled by the idea. Graydon carter, the editor. Graydon carter, i should have said, yeah. Were tickled by the idea of this slightly clownish, i anti establishment figure,. Causing trouble in the british establishment. And he was trouble, you know. He was briBed. Bribing mps and then revealingj that he had briBed them. He wasjust a nightmare for pe0ple~ er, they thought it was funny. And then, she shes| a very good reporter came to britain, was about here four weeks, five weeks, i should think, and really. Nailed the story, and got his habitual racism, his habitual use of cctv to spot womeni on the floor, to pry into, you know, his staffs business, their phone calls. He was bugging people. And how did he respond . He responded with a writ, which came winter of 94, 95. So, nearly 30 years ago, probably 30 years ago. L and you then worked, did you, with a lawyerfor, i think, two years . Yeah, pretty much 18, 19 months, actually. L um, with David Hooper, from Biddle Co. I mean, i said Before, we were hardly the practised investigators. The key point is that we found seven women who gave us affidavits. Its a really important point for the rest of the media, l Because its a matter of effort. And, you know, we just found them. They came, didnt come to us. We found them byjust connecting and talkingj to people we knew who had had experience with fayed. So it was, you know, it was a tough 19 months, but the evidence was there. And were you under pressure to. I mean, clearly, Vanity Fair were investing a lot of resources, if they were spending, you were spending 18 months on this investigation. But at what point did you feel, did you feel under pressure to drop this, to, you know, settle with al fayed . What happened . Well, i never felt. I never felt like settling with al fayed. Im sure you didnt. I wrote a four Page Memo Injune 95, saying, do not settle with this man. Hes a crook. And, um, it was a very. Im quite pleased with. The memo, which, ithink ericas read it. And, um, uh. I said, dont settle. We should do a second story. But then, of course, dodi was killed at The End of august and all Bets. Were off, and we settled. But, you know, there was a lot of information in our case. And we absolutely nailed him on the racism and the use of cctv. And, of course, the general. General intimidation that he levelled in practically every area of life, where he needed to win. Are you surprised that it has taken this long for the scale of his crimes to emerge, and is a lot of it about the fact that hes died, so people can now say this stuff . Of course, he died, and all Bets were off there. Um, but, yeah, iam surprised. I mean, its not as if i didnt. I i mean, i had. Whatever evidence i had l at the time of settlement, in my study, i kept. And gave to anyone. I gave them to erica and i think to Channel 4, as far as i rememBer. Um, so, you know, it was a pretty good outline of a case there. You know, there was Noi Possibility that you could think this man was innocent. He was a very, very bad individual, with unusual power. I want to make one final point. This is money talking. He had a lot of money. We had a lot of money. Si newhouse, once fayed had tried to set me and David Hooper up. With a criminal charge. Didnt manage, but once hed tried that, si just said. Si newhouse, whos the head of. He was the owner of. Conde nast. Yes, hes now dead. Si just said, go for it. Spend what you need to get this guy. And the next nine months, we spent a fortune on it. Now, later in the programme, were going to hearfrom a man whos running a tv network, a Tv News Network in afghanistan. But Before we hearfrom him, lets turn our attention to politics, us politics to Be precise, Because the election is just weeks away now. And as you would imagine in terms of the tv companies, the competition for viewers is ferocious. Cnn thinks it may have a secret weapon for Saturday Nights, and viewers in the uk will have heard of it. Its a Comedy News Show called Have I Got News For You. AmBerand matt, heres your headline. Um. Tiktok. What do you think . Something open. Something like now. Spy agency. Its a big surprise. Now has. I like your answer of tiktok. And i think you should Believe in yourself. Look. Look roy right in the eye and say with all your might, tiktok. Tiktok. Podcast. Close Have I Got News For You is, in fact, a format thats Been airing on british tv for more than 30 years. The format s owned by a Production Company called hat trick, and its managing director, jimmy mulville, came to speak to us. Id Been working with a Brilliant American producer called jim biederman, and he said, oh, you know, youve noticed that mark thompsons taken over cnn. Iwent, oh, yes, of course he has. So i contacted him and just said, look, you know, you know the show. I dont have to explain. You see, explaining Have I Got News For You sometimes to the occasional american executive ive tried to explain it to, when you say its a quiz where the points dont matter and no one has any money, they kind of glaze over. So i said to mark, look, i dont have to explain it to you. How about Have I Got News For You Being on during The Craziest American Election ever and possibly segueing Into A Civil War . And he said, thats a good idea. And thats how we got the commission is we did a Try Out Show. It wasnt a pilot. We did a Try Out Show a few weeks back, launched the show a week ago last saturday, and it has Been doing quite well. And we did the second show this saturday. One of the things that people say is that Panel Shows dont work in the us, and also that american humour is very different from ours. Hmm, yes. They dont get satire and they dont get irony and they dont get sarcasm, some people say. I wouldnt say that, but whats your take . Who are these people . Dont know, people, just people. People, 0k. Great research. Theres definitely a sense that. A lot of people say. That comedy is different, that humour is different in different countries, or do you think not . Do you think actually they get it . Theyll. I think. Or have you changed it, i suppose . I think america has quite a strong tradition in politicaljokes. I mean, if you look at late night, most of the opening monologues are flecked through withjokes. John oliver, of course, whos a brit, has won the emmy, i think, six times in a row now doing jokes, and they feed an american audience who get those jokes. So i dont buy that, actually. And as for the panel show, youre right. I mean, youre absolutely right. Traditionally they dont work Because, again, it goes back to, well, what is it . Is it a quiz . What is it . And i said, this is a comedy show, but. But so have you changed it a lot . Well, no, what weve done is its now an hour long, so its 45 minutes in real time with the Ad Breaks. Thats the weird thing is suddenly weve got a show that never had Ad Breaks now having Ad Breaks. So weve had to construct the show so each. There are games that fit the segments that then go to the ad break, but the show itself is you would recognise the show. I mean, its got the same kind of rounds. Weve added a couple of other rounds, but its a very recognisable version of Have I Got News For You, yeah. And what about the Women Question . Those same people that i was talking about earlier, some would say its difficult to get women to go on Panel Shows. Certainly every person. Not any more. Do you not find that here, and is it a problem in america . No. I mean, not any more. I think it was, and i think weve addressed that kind of balance. And, you know, on the show in america, ourthree regulars are Roy Wood jr, whos a fantastic comedian, AmBer Ruffin shes the Head Writer on the seth meyers show, which is a kind of late night topical Humour Show and then michael black, whos a funny commentator. So, you know, weve got two African American regulars and a. So quite different from. A white. Yeah, yeah. In fact, michael black, who is the white guy in it, says hes the diversity hiring. So, you know, its a great show for that Because we can talk about race in a way which we couldnt do, of course, if you didnt have that kind of configuration. I think if ive done my calculations correct, your first Edition Wouldve Been a few days after the debate Between Kamala Harris and donald trump. Yes, that was correct. And ivejust Been in the states, and, of course, everyone was focusing on his comments about cats and dogs and pets and so on in springfield, ohio. This is a lot of material for your programme to work with. Do you think that it can live on and succeed once youre Beyond that . Well, as weve seen, were not always having an election in this country, but the show goes. I mean, the truth is that the news recycles itself, so the news is always there. We live and we breathe the news. Have i got news for you in this country fulfils a very important function, i think. Its a Very Reithian informs, educates, entertains. And at The End of a week, weve all lived through the same week, and then we have three funny people mayBe if were lucky, five and theyll unpack the week for us in a way that is manageable and makes us laugh. And laughing, as you know, is very good for your mental health, so we should do it more often. And in america. Especially on this programme, we need more laughs. Yeah, just generally, i think. Stay with us, jimmy. Lets bring in someone else to join our conversation on this. Nayeema raza is a Semafor Contributor and Co Host of semafor s mixed signals podcast, and somewhat of a regular on the media show, too. Nayeema, great to have you back on. Have you watched Have I Got News For You . I have, and my american. Humour managed to get it. Dont worry. You got through it. Great. And what was your verdict on it, both as a product, as a viewer and also as a Media Analyst . Yeah, as a viewer, a Media Analyst and maker of stuff. J i mean, i have to say, i came in sceptical as a journalist and having watched the british version of the programme and having Been a bit of an anglophile for, | you know, preferring, say,| the Uk Version of the office to the american. But i was pleasantly surprised. I think the second episode, i you know, in particular having a politician on there. There was a former Pennsylvania Congressman on there who just i played the role brilliantly of. Being a bit of a straight man. And i think that the show is. Its early, so i look. Forward to, you know, it Becoming even more natural and seeing the kind of host dynamic, but i think the talent has Been fascinating. Like Roy Wood jr, Entertainment Weekly once descriBed him as characteristically and charismatically cranky, and i think that works really well as a host. I i think Michael Ian Black and AmBer Ruffin play well off each other, so, yeah, i like it. And in terms of the moment when its broadcasting, Saturday Night, for people listening who dont know the landscape of Broadcast Television in the us, what kind of a slot is that to have . It looks, on the face of it, a good one to have. What are News Networks normally doing on a Saturday Night . I mean, i think viewers. Are usually not watching television on a Saturday Night, with the exception of, you know, ithink College Football is big. Fox news has a Comedy Programme on, in fact, | on saturday evening. So Cnn Isjoining that with this 9pm slot. I and Bill Maher, which of course, is in the broader family of the