Wouldnt recognize me without my tie. I dont consider myself a journalist. I began to take the life of being an interviewer on even though i have a day job of running a firm. How do you define leadership . What is it that makes someone tick . Morning,wake up in the you say, i am incredibly proud of what i have done, or do you say i have to deal wtih critics with critics . Think i thought about what an honor it was and what they responsibility it is. You get that feeling when you wake up that morning and realize you are a steward of something. Ibm was the dominant Technology Company in the world in the 60s and 70s. The sameink it has strength in the computer world it has in the 60s . Ginni ibm is great. I think the greatness of the Technology Company is if you can reinvent yourself over and over. Is one thing to reinvent yourself once, but if you do it three or four or five times, it in such a Competitive Industry it was one thing to have technology, but it is another to have the knowhow on how to use it. One constant is that we help change the way the world works. Started selling meat then theclocks, and mainframe. And then into reinvented himself in software. Now we are doing it and then and reinvented itself software. Now we are doing it again. David you grew up in chicago. You have two sisters and a brother. David your mother was not collegeeducated up a time your father left her at the time her father left her. How did she support herself . Ginni my mother had a high school degree, but then had children right after. In my early teens when my dad chose to leave. Sudden, and my father found herself with four kids and no money, no home or no food. She was so intent on not letting other people to find who she was. We had to go on food stamps. She went back to school at night and learned a profession and became head of the administration for a clinic. Mother really taught us to never let someone else defined who we mother really taught are. Did you babysit . I took google lessons to make money. Bugle lessons to make money. My mother never complained and never said much, but we all watched what she did. My three brothers have been incredibly successful, would that work ethic my mother instilled in us. I did have a scholarship. We all looked for ways to put ourselves through school. David your mother is still alive. Does she call you and tell you how great youre doing, or does she say your other siblings are doing just as well . [laughter] ginni actually, she calls and talks about all things normal mothers talk about, right . David she does not ask about ibm . [laughter] ginni her biggest thing this is a funny story about my mom. So this past easter, she was at my house, and i was having to leave in the middle of the day to get to the airport. And my mom says, hey, before, before you leave, i have your annual report, and i have written you a little set of notes on it. I am like, great, im even going to get a report card for my mother on this annual report. [laughter] ginni because the first thing, like a mom does, is she looks at the pictures. And then but my mom says, look, i loved this annual report. She goes, this annual report, i understand what ibm does. And it was 50 vignettes, 50 short little vignettes, about how the world and professions and Industries Change because of watson, ai, cloud computing, and how it will make life better. Right . My mom goes, this is now i understand. In that she had some comments about the look and the paper type and other things, so she gave me a report card. David did you give any of these comments to your colleagues back at ibm . Ginni i gave them all. Sure. [laughter] ginni i have a large retail shareholder base. David you graduated from northwestern. And then, although you had a scholarship from General Motors, you were not required to work at General Motors, but you felt you should . Ginni yeah. These are some schools and these were wonderful programs from the day and age. This was an effort to get women and minorities into businesses. And at that time, General Motors had a program, which was they went to the best schools and said, gee, if i can get you the deal was i will pay your tuition your room and board, and , everything. And someone going to school themselves, a professor said to me, hey, you ought to look at this program. In return, work there in the summers. Otherwise, no strings attached. I had a wonderful set of internships with them. When i graduated, i did feel a sense, a real sense of obligation to first go to gm. I had a lot of other offers, but to go to gm. I was a Computer Science and engineering degree. David were there a lot of women taking those courses in those days at northwestern . Ginni what do you think . David not that many . Ginni no. I was probably one of the only woman in many of those classes, even then. David so you are at General Motors for a couple of years. And you hear of an opportunity to go to a Company Called ibm. Ginni it wasnt, as sometimes people think, that you have some long thoughtout career plan. Im sorry to tell you i had been working at General Motors, and while i liked what i was doing, i really felt, because i liked technology, it was the idea of being able to apply it to a lot of different industries. And it was as simple as my husband said, hey, look, i have a friend and his dad works for ibm. Why dont you just call him . And actually i think it was my husband who actually set the interview up, to be honest with you. David did he get a finders fee or anything from you . Ginni i am still paying that finders fee. [laughter] ginni so i went to the interview, and i was hired. David what area where you initially . Ginni i started out as a systems engineer. So i was a systems engineer. I worked in banking, insurance, and i had many experiences through my years. And i remember i had gone into consulting, so i had learned a lot of things, and it was time to do another job. And the story i always tell is that i worked for a gentleman, very good mentor, and he said to me, hey, i am getting a new job, and you are going to get my job. You have to go for an interview. You are one of the candidates. Go to this interview. So i thought, hmm. I go to the interview, and they tell me all about the job and i am sitting there and i think, boy, in my mind, im not sure im ready for this yet. This is a big job. Right . Just a little more time, and i would be ready. I said to him, well, may i go home . I would like to go home and talk it over. Give me overnight to think about it. I went home, so i get home, and my husband, he is sitting there, and as usual, i always say, i am talking, talking, and hes like mmhmm. Mmhmm. [laughter] ginni and i tell him about this interview. And i said, but i said i wanted to go home and sleep on it. He goes, do you think a man would have asked that question . I mean, i can remember it like it was yesterday. I said, no. I went in the next day, and, of course, i took the job immediately. And the man, who had been my mentor, who suggested it to me, he goes, dont do that again. I said, i understand. It is what formed this basis for me that i think has guided my whole career, which is growth and comfort never coexist. And you have got to get really comfortable with being uncomfortable. It is when you learn the most. David when you started doing these things, did you begin to think there was the chance you could be the ceo . Do you think ibm, like many companies, were never going to make a woman a ceo . Ginni no, that never entered my mind, that ibm would make a choice based on gender. Never. I mean, ibm has for all my time there, it has always been the most Inclusive Company i have known. When you interview others, do they feel like i never thought about that. I always felt you do great in your current job, it earns your right to your next job. David when you meet with President Trump or other president s, do you see that ceos are willing to say, mr. President , that is not a good idea, or let me give you my thought, it might be different . Ginni my experience is people are respectfully honest and give their opinions. And so, just as if there are times, whether it is a president , a Prime Minister, where we agree, and there will be times we dont agree. David so lets talk about ibm for a moment. It is a hardware company, a software company, a consulting company. What would you say it really is today . Ginni keep going. [laughter] ginni when i say first off an enterprise company, right . We uniquely live at that intersection of tech and business. And then, as you said, we build, over time, hardware. Then, we layered it with software. We built integrated onto that services. And now, as i said, we are becoming a cloud and a Cognitive Solutions company. And there will be another sort of reinvention of ibm one day in the future again, but today, it is about that. And it is not about the technology. It is cloud. It is ai. Right now. It is the why. And as i say to all my colleagues, and i feel we are the champion for business. Right . The champion for business. I will tell you what i mean by that. Right now, if you ask me to pick one word what ibm is reinventing around, i would tell you it is the word data. There is gold in that data. And to me, we are on the verge of companies being able to use all that. And this, to me, is for companies go on the offense now against startups, against disruption, you do it with that data. And you will need new tools, and that is where ai comes in. David one of the tools is what you call watson. Watson is named after ginni our founder, thomas watson. David watson got some attention because of jeopardy. Ginni it is funny how many people still remember that. In fact, that was i really give us credit, if i might, for having, sort of, relit the world of ai. You asked what i did early in my career i was an ai specialist at one time. So that would be a couple of decades ago. So it isnt like ai itself is brandnew. There are a number of things that make it different at this point in time. And what we did back then it was 2011 with jeopardy we had been working on ai for a good five years before. And this gets back to this idea if you are always moving to where you think there is value in tech, we believe there would be value in this data, and that you had to be prepared for this world to do it costeffectively, and more important, you would have to have technology that did not get programmed. And that is the difference with what our that is what watson and ai is. Meaning what watson does you do not say, what watson is, if this, do that. Every device you have has been programmed if this, do that. Somebody had to tell it what to do. Your smart phone, you name it. Watson takes data of all kinds, understands, reasons, and learns over that data. And that will help you make better decisions. This is an interesting stat i think we are sharing. In the world, we think there is a market of 2 trillion for making Better Business decisions. And some of it is rooted in the plain, fundamental fact that when you and i make decisions you may be better at this, david. David not likely, but ginni one third are right, one third are not optimal, and one third are wrong. It transcends everything. David lets talk about the life of a ceo a large company. How much time are you on the road, traveling, now . Ginni probably 50 . David and customers, they are mostly interested in what . When you meet with them, you try to tell them why ibm is better than somebody else . Ginni no. David no, you dont do that . Ginni of course, always well, in some ways. I think many clients look at us as a bit of a mirror image. I mean, i hear this from them. They are like i remember years ago, they were saying to me, wow, this is a lot of change. I remember saying, be careful, this is coming to a theater near you. This idea i believe our transformation mirrors what every company is going through. You rebuild yourself around data and cloud. You are going to have to change how you do the work, and youre going to have to work on who the people are that do the work. David how do you measure your success as ceo . Is it share price . Is it earnings, earningspershare, Revenue Growth . Ginni what i am most focused on, the boards most focused on, is transforming ibm for this next era, this next cognitive era. And so, the sort of milepost we put out there is, as i said part of the portfolio is we build new products and services, which is now 42 of ibm, which is 34 billion. It had doubledigit growth. That is a very important set of new offerings that that team created. At the same time, there are other things we do for clients. I mean, david, i think people forget we run the banks of the world, the railroads of the world, the airlines of the world. It is 9 out of 10, 10 out of 10. And that is why i both mirror and help them transition to the future, run their current world, transition to the future, and become the future. And that is a really serious obligation. Some of that does not grow as fast as other pieces, and the new grows fast, but we, if anything, it is to help people transition from era to era. So the measurement is as we build the new businesses and that we keep moving to higher value. That is our distinct value proposition. David does it bother you that you have more employees, more revenue, more customers all over the world than companies like, i assume, apple or amazon or facebook, but they have higher market capitalizations . Does that strike you as unfair in some ways or something you have to live with . Ginni i always want to work on higher market capitalization. So, the unfair part i do not feel these things are, as you say, sort of a burden in that way. Because what we do is different. It is this combination of having technology and then knowhow, which means you have both of those things together. David every country you visit around the world, i assume, if you want to meet the Prime Minister or president , you have no problem getting into do that . Ginni yeah, but you dont abuse that. There are some really important issues around the world. Almost every government we talk to about cybersecurity. Very important to talk about things around digital trade. An than the other ones, it has been about workforce skills. When you look at why is there division between people and why is there inequality, every time, you will trace this back, and it will be about skills and opportunity. That is what we have been working on. David when you are meeting with President Trump or other president s, do you see that ceos are willing to say, mr. President , that is not a good idea, or let me give you my thought. It might be different than yours. Or people are kind of quiet whenever any president s are around . Ginni my experience is that people are respectfully honest. They give their opinions. Just as there are times with every whether a president or a Prime Minister where we agree, and times when we do not agree. In our case, here as an example with the paris agreement, we believe that america should stay in there. So we shared our viewpoints on that. The issues that are important, right, to our business and our clients. David do you feel a certain responsibility as a woman ceo to mentor other women and to speak out on issues relating to women . Ginni you always want to be noticed and rewarded for what you did, your contributions. You know . I would always be, this has nothing to do with gender, right, almost blind to that. I really came to learn and see that how important it is that there be role models. And you have to accept the fact that you are a role model on the appropriate things. David so do you think a woman who rose up to be the leader of ibm had to be better than the men, or do you think it really didnt make a difference . Ginni i do not think in ibm it made a difference. David people who are subordinate who come to you and you dont like their ideas, do you ever yell at them, scream at them, which men often do, or are you quiet about it and tell them quietly their ideas are no good . How do you tell people youre not happy . Ginni i am not a screamer. Never was. David you dont throw things . Something like that . Ginni no, no, i dont think ive ever thrown anything. But i have always believed in the way to challenge things is to challenge them. It is the intellectual. I always feel, you need to know what you are talking about. And so, to me, i have no trouble being the one to ask questions, and i think that is the best way to challenge things. David so do you feel a certain responsibility as a woman ceo to mentor other women and speak out on issues relating to women . Ginni this is an interesting question, david, because i have david so do you feel a certain grown to be comfortable with that role, about being a role model. Because i think many of my colleagues would all say, and maybe it is a bit as we colleagues would all say, and maybe it is a bit as we came through our businesses, you always want to be noticed and rewarded for what you did, your contributions. I would always be, this has got nothing to do with gender, right . Almost blind to that. And over time, though, i really came to learn and see how important it is that there be role models. And you have to accept the fact that you are a role model on the appropriate things. And so, that, too, was kind of, at one point, it was another image that sticks out in my mind. This is maybe 10, 15 years ago. I was down in australia. I was giving a Financial Services presentation. I thought it was doing an ok job at this. In the end a couple of people came up to me, this man, and i thought he was going to tell me, this is great, or he disagrees. And he said to me, looked at me, and said, i wish my daughters had been here. And it is funny the sort of moments that you remember. And i always remember thinking that is why you do have to realize any of us in these positions of any kind of influence, we are a role model for someone, and women do need role models. We are still a small minority that run these companies. They need role models to say, yep, that is possible. I can be that. It is hard to dream to be something if you dont see other people like it. David are you disappointed or surprised, if you take a fortune 100 or fortune 200 companies, there are relatively few female ceos still . Ginni yeah. I still i would have hoped, by now, that there would be more, right . I think this is a very conscious effort. In fact, we make a conscious effort. One of the biggest things is to keep women in the workforce. Keep women in the workforce. And so, there is no doubt, when women have children or ailing parents there are many rea