Has confidentially filed to go despite the pandemic bringing travel to a near standstill earlier this year. Meantime, it is another story sending shockwaves through Silicon Valley. Later this hour the former ceo all of pinterest, Francoise Brougher, will join me for a discussion after suing the company for gender discrimination. But dan ives joins me now. Obviously a big day for apple today. We knew what is coming, but what is the significance of this to trillion dollar milestone . Dan it is a monumental achievement for apple. And i think it just shows these skeptics that three or four years ago that thought growth was over in cupertino, it proved them wrong again. Especially them hitting it before apple and amazon and others. I still think more bullishness ahead. Is up the only way to go . We are still facing a lot of Economic Uncertainty the second half of the year. Consumers not necessarily going to have stimulus checks in their pocket for discretionary spending. What does that mean for iphone sales . Dan i think for apple itsfically, an dit and factored into iphone sales for the next 12 to 18 months. Backdrop we are seeing. I also think there is a new appreciation of investors in terms of the services business. 60 billion annual revenue. I think it is worth up to 700 billion. Iphone sales, 350 million iphones have not been upgraded in 3. 5 years. I believe we are going into a 5g super cycle. Stock is going to get rerated by the spring. Emily lets talk about the Public Markets right now. Airbnb just filing to go public. Earlier this year travel was at a complete standstill. It is still incredibly slow, although they are seeing some rebounding. Is now really the right time for airbnb to get out of the gate . Dan its an interesting time for them to obviously go down this route, especially with what you are seeing in the overall gig economy. Based on our estimates and about 30 k, we think of consumers will not get in a ridesharing or stay at airbnb until a vaccine is found. Strongat said, theres a appetite right now in the market for secular growth stories. This,s not just across but software and other areas. That has been feeding into it. You have seen an insatiable appetite. Many investors looking at airbnb. Emily the argument has been made that airbnb missed its window to go public and should have gone public perhaps last year, earlier this year before the pandemic. Not necessarily knowing what was to come, but there has been a trend of Silicon Valley companies waiting longer and longer to hit the public market. Do you think that they can recover from perhaps a miscalculation there . Theres always a doubleedged sword in terms of windows. Forecasting and better understanding some of the business trends, they make sure they do not trip on their shoelace the First Quarter out. When you look at airbnb, obviously this covid environment which looks at least over the next six to 12 months, it will continue to be significant headwinds for the overall industry. I think ultimately it comes down to an execution story. Its no different than what you are seeing when you look at uber and lyft. Also a little bit of a cautionary tale. Went public, lyft had, it is they still a herculean battle to regain credibility. Emily dan ives, thank you so much for calling in. Good to get your voice today on these two stories. Meantime, it is perhaps the most highprofile gender discrimination story in Silicon Valley. Former pinterest ceo Francoise Brougher sued the Company Last Week, claiming she was fired for speaking out about discrimination, paid less than her male peers, and left out of key decisions despite being the number two executive. Since then, pinterest has faced an employee walk out and calls for systemic change. Earlier today she joined me in an exclusive interview to share her story. I was the first pinterest coo, and looking forward to being a force of progress of a company that catered to women. 70 of the users are actually women. Very quickly that while i was given a seat at the , and ii had no power cannot use my talent drive pinterest forward. Talent to drive pinterest forward. And i think if it has happened to someone at my level, it has happened to many women across the organization. And i wanted to be able to add a voice to this conversation and explain a little bit my story. And i am hoping sharing my story starts a conversation about what the role of women, and even when they reach the peak level of a company, theres still gender discrimination. Emily i know you cannot speak about specific issues, but in a medium post you do not hold back. You describe a culture that is demoralizing, secretive, toxic. I would love to hear in your voice, how did you experience that culture . Tell us what happened to you. Francoise i was not invited to meetings. I was not involved in management decisions. I was not even on the roadshow, and i had experience being on the roadshow. Men that didny by not value my perspective. ,hen i tried to raise my voice instead of being applauded for strong leadership my was criticized for it. To conformexpected to gender stereotypes. Your description of ceo Ben Silvermans leadership is damning. Only men were invited to meetings where decisions were made. There were constant backstabbing, gossiping, even though you were the coo and number two. You said the only way you could get things done was by hiding things and saying what you really thought was dangerous. What was it about bens leadership that you feel was particularly problematic . I think it is the same group of people and not hearing a different voice at the table. A different voice comes forward, actually listen to them. It is important that people understand hiring women is not enough. Making the place where they can be candid and share their perspective is even more important than just hiring them. And i wanted to make this point, because even in 2020 its still happening. Emily a pinterest spokesperson said we are remaining committed to ensure pinterest is a place where all of our employees feel included and supported, which is why there is an independent review regarding our practices. We are reviewing the complaint filed. Our employees are incredible important to us, and we take all complaints brought to our attention seriously. Some of the other things you schedule wast your less favorable than colleagues, you are paid less than men, and get you drove the companys revenue from 500 million to over 1 billion. Ben fired you, you say, in a 10 minute video call, saying you were not collaborative. What was going through your head and your heart at that time . Francoise it was a shock. And clearly i did not see a problem. We were all trying to figure out how to recommunicate and enter with our workforce. Because we were months into the covid situation. So yes, it was a shock. I appreciate the statement of wanting to support women. Or any employee is will come forward. But really the Company Culture springs from what nobody says. They should look at the culture. Emily to be fair, this is a legal case. We do not know their side of the story yet. And you have worked that many companies. You have had thousands of people reporting to you and i am sure there were situations where you had to fire someone who was successful somewhere else maybe you did not think was successful with you, or simply was not working out. What is different you think in this case . Francoise i think it was very different from anything i experienced before in the Previous Companies i worked with. What i felt is that my gender was getting in the way of my performance at pinterest. The first part of my conversation with former pinterest coo, Francoise Brougher. Coming up, the second part of that discussion. The former coo of pinterest, talking to me about the treatment of women in the csuite, and whether jack dorsey was a better boss. She used to work at square. That is next. This is bloomberg. Bloomberg. Emily the bid for the u. S. Operations of tiktok has gotten the backing up President Trump, bolstering the Software Makers attempt to take over tiktok. We are joined by sarah frier. The president did not specifically say oracle would be better than microsoft at owning the tiktok app, but certainly endorsed oracle. What exactly did he say . Sarah he said that oracle is run by a great guy who would be great to tiktok, a good buyer for them. He did not specifically say he prefers oracle over microsoft, thehe definitely nodded in direction of larry ellison, who of course is one of the only open supporters in Tech Leadership of President Trump. Has been pretty vocal about his support with his money, too. I think that trump is sending a very strong signal that he if hes that outcome even did not say it directly. Emily obviously we know that oracle and larry ellison, a big fundraiser for the president. Held a fundraiser for him back in february. What does this actually mean for the talks with microsoft . How much of a wrench is this in the process . Hash listen, this process always been a political process. It is very unusual. When i heard about oracle atepping in for this bid, first i thought there is no logic to this. Then i thought, well, the logic is the trump relationship. I think we are going to see a lot of that. S is trump trying to get maybe this convinces microsoft to sweeten their deal. If he mentions in his comments that he is expecting to see a big payout for the treasury as a result of this deal, so maybe they are aiming to get more money, whether its oracle or microsoft or whoever comes to the fore. Or the u. S. Government as a result of this deal. And of course none of this would be happening if trump did not put out an executive order saying he needs tiktok shut down within a few weeks, or sold to a u. S. Company. With how are the talks microsoft going so far . Sarah so far what we have heard from our sources that the talks with micah soft and oracle are the front runners. There have been a lot of suitors knocking on the door for to talk, for tiktok, and those are the two that are the most serious. It looks like there is not an official statement from oracle yet on their interests. Microsoft remains the only bidder we have heard of officially for tiktok. For both companies it will be something of a data play. Ofked tiktok has a lot insight into u. S. Users. That is why the u. S. Is concerned about its prominence. It also presents an opportunity for these cloud Data Companies to come in and do something with that data, run analytics, gather more intel on trends and customers. A i think that we see kind of similar outcome for both of those big established tech companies. Emily all right. Sarah frier reporting on tiktok, thank you so much for joining us. We will be right back with more of Bloomberg Technology after this quick break. Emily we are now just two months away from voters having a say on President Trumps leadership. As the Democratic NationalConvention Continues remotely. I spoke with steve case, the cofounder of aol. Got his take on the largely virtual upcoming election and what we can expect leading up to november. 1985, America Online in only 3 of people were online and they were online just one hour a week. Now we have moved into a world where our economy is largely online. Media and communications are operating online. The elections are being fought largely online. It has been amazing to watch and we will see what happens in the next couple months. I do think it is important election. Tech policy needs to be front and center. Start up policy needs to be front and center. We need to shift the focus from looking at the Rearview Mirror at businesses that already exist and look forward to understand what the new opportunities are and make sure we are backing them in a much more inclusive kind of way. We will see what happens with the conventions this week with the democrats and next week with republicans. Largely virtual conventions. It will be interesting to see what happens in an environment where historically, there has been a lot of doortodoor canvassing. Obviously that is less likely to happen. This election will definitely be fought more on the internet. It has been amazing to watch that transition. Emily on that note, senator harris has won three elections in california. She is closer to Silicon Valley, being from this part of the country. What do you think her selection means for potential tech policy . You and i had talked about the antitrust scrutiny on big companies. What are the big tech companies. What are the implications for her selection for the tech company . Steve it is helpful with her base in california. She understands the tech issues across the whole gamut. All the different issues, she can bring that perspective, and i think connecting that with Vice President biden, given his roots in scranton, also understands the challenges people are facing in different parts of the country. And really will continue to be a real antidote for these rising cities, doing more interesting things in more interesting places. Its an interesting combination and she brings an interesting perspective from california that is helpful. But the conversation needs to be less about what is happening in Silicon Valley and more about what is happening in the rest of the country. Hopefully that will happen and hopefully more cities will rise, and more of the fortune 500 companies of tomorrow will launch in cities all over the country, not just a couple along the coast. Emily as you look ahead, do you see a vaccine or some kind of Silver Bullet treatment as the only way out of this . And how do you plan for the next notonths, to 18 months, knowing if we are going to have that . Steve sounds like the momentum around a vaccine has been remarkable. Its certainly going to be something much faster than the previous record. It was four years. It will clearly happen soon. That is the first step. The second step is how do you distribute the vaccine and get people to take it . That will take time. Theres a big Antivaccine Movement in this country. And the challenge to get hundreds of millions of people vaccinated even if everybody wanted to. That will be a big focus next year not just in terms of having a vaccine, but broadly distributing it. It will take some time before we get back to normal. But as i said before, hopefully we will do better than normal and and up with an economy even stronger. Clearly there will be challenges. Stepsmes it will be two forward and one step back. We all have to take a long view of this and making sure we are making decisions to do with the immediate crises of the moment, in which many countries are facing many of them. But when we come out of this, how do we end up stronger than when we started. Its an important election. I try to stay out of politics and work in a bipartisan way get things done, including the jobs act which was passed with bipartisan support about eight years ago. But i think this is a critical election. Clearly there are a lot of things happening in our country and around the world. Case, the ceo of revolution. Breaking news to tell you about. Intel shares spiking after hours after announcing a 10 billion buyback. This is part of a planned 20 billion in share repurchases. So not unexpected, but intel shares still up. Coming up, the second part of my conversation with Francoise Brougher, the former coo of pinterest, about the treatment of women in the csuite, and whether she thinks jack dorsey was a better boss. She also worked at square, but last week suit pinterest for sued pinterest for gender discrimination. That is next. This is bloomberg. Is bloomberg. Emily welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I am emily chang in san francisco. It is rare to hear women in the csuite go public about negative experiences at the top, because the extra they feel the extra burden of needing to protect the company. That is why Francoise Broughers lawsuit has shaken Silicon Valley. The former pinterest coo sued the Company Last Week for gender discrimination. In the second part of our conversation, we talked about what we do not hear more women in her position share their story. Take a listen. It is different. It is not like, hey, get me a coffee. I did not have this conversation. It is much more insidious at the executive level. The way women are pushed out by men is different. The glassbout ceiling. I thought i broke it, im a role model. Level it is ain monkey on your back. You every stepes you try to lead. Especially there is a false sense of women at this level are vulnerable are invulnerable because of the power. But i am an example of this is not true. Emily this is the same with the Democratic Party is trying to position itself as the best place for women working or otherwise. Were coming into a critical election, and your story is now more important than ever. How much of an influence did the political environment and President Trump being in the white house have on your decision to come forward . Francoise of course i have my personal convictions, and of course i want more women in power, whether it is in the political system or in companies. Actually, women are able to take action, i encourage this acrosstheboard, but this has nothing to do with mr. Trump. Emily the irony is 70 of pinterest users are women. Do you think if pinterest had more women at the table and decisionmaking roles that the product would be better, that they would be making more money . Francoise i think it could be better. It could be more inclusive. I know pinterest is working on that. It is not just pinterest. Every company, theres as Much Research as you can find. When you have a more inclusive and D