Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Bloomberg 20240704 : vimarsana.com

For the first time as the Digital Currency continues its rally. Ophelia snyder of 21shares joins us to discuss. Caroline and we will be joined by funeral close look to talk about one year after the closure of Silicon Valley bank and we will be joined by vinod khosla to talk about one year after the closure of Silicon Valley bank. We eye big macro points. Basically, where is Inflationary Pressure taking us . Looking at the 10 year yield, up only some two basis points now. Still fading some that initial selloff but still carrying over from friday. Globally speaking, seeing a little bit of bottom picking in china at last. It seems after we wrapped up the focus on the Overall Party and the future of the economic trajectory, china up about 2. 6 on chinese trading names in the u. S. That is the Golden Dragon index i look at. Next, the area that moves apart from the risk concern we see of equity market and continues to power ever higher. Ed will dig into why the u. K. s looking favorably at bitcoin. 72,000 clips today. What do you have on micro . Ed you do see crypto related stocks moving higher, coinbase kind of the main ones up. At one point in the session, trading at its highest level since 2021, its yeartodate gain beyond 50 now. That often happens, when rallies in bitcoin continue, so do the related equity. Meta on the downside, the biggest downside on the former President Trump reiterated his comments that a ban on tiktok is bad because it would be good for meta, and he thinks meta is bad. The top stories about a name we will that will soon be publicly traded. That is reddit. 22 million shares. At the upper end of the range, 34 a share. If you take it on a diluted basis, the valuation about 6. 4 billion. It is kind of as much about what you learn about the company and what you dont. We have been waiting for this one since 2021, when they filed confidentially, and they kind of missed what was a banner year for u. S. Ipos then. Caroline bloombergs randgold rheingold what do you think insinuates what was left out . I think there was a little bit left, a question mark about exactly how much that was going to be offered. There was question as to whether or not there would be more. There have been calls, is it 5. 4, 6. 4 that is a valid question. On a fully diluted basis, it does extend as much as 6. 4 billion. But we wrote that the early testing waters Meeting Survey should target 5 billion as a minimum. That is in the ballpark they have gone to. What i do think is interesting from the filing is this 8 that is going it is their employees, some of their existing shareholders, and also the fact that a lot of those shares are not going to be locked up. Come tomorrow, if there is a pop, you could be selling these shares, if you feel so inclined. Ed and not only what we call insiders, staff, but if you are a redditor or moderator on the platform, you can get access to the shares, too. You and i were talking, when they sent out those memos to the redditors, they said you could get in on the ipo at the same level as wall street situational investor. How big a factor, if it is just a percent of shares, and there is no lock on them, how do you think that is going to impact trading on the day . Ryan i would put this in the ballpark of curious, because there is this campaign on reddit itself, amongst the wall street bets crowd, on shorting the stock on the open tomorrow. I think there is a lot of bravado around that. But this is an ipo about trying to strike equality for reddit and its employees, its customers. Reddit would not have got to this place had it not been for those very loyal users might start a hind it in these past three years, because a lot of them have been waiting for this moment. Some of them may not agree that public is the right one, but this is a transition for the company. This is something theyre looking to move past, because there is a whole lot of stuff to be done as a Public Company after trading, which is expected to be next week. Caroline we have had glimmers in the ipo space recently. There is a key ai name. More broadly, if this does go well, do we think more Technology Names will follow behind . Ryan for sure, not least because i think this window we are in now there has been so much written about and said about it. Reddit is going to be a significant bellwether. A lot of the sponsorbacked tech names. Three risk solutions, that we have also covered that all said, there is a huge backlog of tech name with eyes on today, tomorrow, next week, not least to see where the book falls, because we should get a sense wednesday, thursday as to how the book is a building. Next week, we should see how firm the demand is across the price range. That will feed directly into the momentum that will follow. Caroline ed . Ed also, i point out for the redditor out there that, on wall streets bets forum, thousands of voted a post that upvoted a post that called for reddit to be short sold when it opens. Coming up on the show, we sit down with Ophelia Snyder of one stairs of 21 shares as bitcoin hits a new record, 72,000 u. S. Per token. Caroline global stock, taiwanese semiconductor. We have been off by some 3 throughout u. S. Trading and in its own trading, but the fact that we have now seen it clips, eclipse broadcom means it is back in the top 10 of most valuable companies in the world. This is still a bet on artificial intelligence. This is Bloomberg Technology. How am i going to find a doctor when im hallucinating . What about zocdoc . So many options. Yeah, and dr. Xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. Xichun, xichun, xichun youve got more options than you know. Book now. When you automate sales tax with avalara, you dont have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. Avalarahhh ahhh caroline bitcoins surging to a new record, 72,000 per token today. Digital assets scored another win, more globally speaking to the London Stock Exchange will soon accept Exchange Traded notes backed by bitcoin or either. Running us now, 21shares cofounder and president Ophelia Snyder. Already got your presence here in the u. S. And europe, so i can imagine, youre looking at how you start to cross those ts, dot thos is. Ophelia absolutely. We are quite excited that the u. K. Is looking to allow these listings domestically. It should be quite an important change for the european market. Caroline what is dressing is there is still racism on the u. K. Market on allowing retail to have access to such overall assets that are traded in this way. What is the difference you are seeing between u. S. , between europe, and potentially the u. K. , as to whether this is institutional money they want to bring in or still allowed easier access for a Retail Investor . Ophelia europe has, for a long time, includings with dylan, allowed both retail and Institutional Investors in. That has been our bread and butter, catering to both for the last five years as we brought these products to market. What we are seeing in the u. S. Is different. It is still early for big institutions in the u. S. Most require 90 days to assess compliance and do diligence on existing wires. That has barely begun. I think you will see some things similar in the u. K. Over time, that we will see a little more retail participation. But it is early days still for that market. Ed i really appreciate carolines question, because we are still trying to understand what shortterm and longterm drivers are at play with bitcoin in particular. I always look at the chart over the weekend, because sunday rolls around, it is 20 47, and it always seems to start it is 24 7, and it always seems to start with momentum. Ophelia i think you are seeing this is not just the last for five days, but they are part of the narrative we are seeing institutional adoption in the u. S. It is quite early still, because not all of the wire houses and institutions have access to it, but youre beginning to see those types of investors, online come online. That is changing bitcoins structure and biaising it towards weekday trading in a way that has not been the case when it was a more retailfocused market more focused on asian hours. It is largely being driven by etf flows, which are traded on u. S. Hours. Ed what are the data sets you look at each day, beyond the spot price at any given moment . Ophelia i do not spend much time looking at the spot price at any given moment. I am typically more interested in fundamentals and what is happening from an on chain metrics perspective and what is happening within the Blockchain Community and ecosystems. The reason for that is it is challenging to see signal to noise, whereas on chain metrics are a bit more sophisticated and tell you about what is actually happening within the blockchain. That is the basis of one of the products we operate in the u. S. , is productizing those metrics into an etf. Those are typically the things i look at. Caroline what has been so interesting is the bitcoin exuberance. Yes, it solidified it in terms of the dominated player, but still, all boats seem to have lifted. We were talking about mean points, some affiliated with politics, catching the meme zeitgeist. But there are other products you have out there you have avalanche, uniswap. How are you seeing real desire to be going outside bitcoin and ethe . Ophelia we have seen a lot of concentrated desire on bitcoin at the moment. We will see if that dynamic spreads to ethe as the regulatory process in the u. S. Moves forward. Beyond those top two names, we have seen quite an uptick in demand. We are quite a unique firm in that capacity. We are really the only people flu offer that brought a sweet, covering all sorts of different really the only people offering that broad a suit. A key name would be Something Like solana, where we have seen an enormous amount of interest over the last several months. That has continued as the overhang from some of the black swan events has dissipated and bankruptcy states have come undone, and you are seeing that there is still some interesting things happening within those communities and ecosystems that may or may not be priced in at these points. Caroline looking not just for a store of value but utility . The meme points to the opposite of that, greed for greeds sake. But is it too since want to see how this is changing dynamics but institutions want to see how this is changing dynamics. Ophelia exactly. What do these blockchains offer, these applications offer in terms of actual utility. That is a big shift versus prior market cycles, and it is coming partially from that institutionalization. I think it will be positive for the space. Ed every time i post on social media about a fresh bitcoin high, and there is one Venture Capitalist who replies every time i like this stock you know what thats referencing. Bitcoin and other tokens are likely to go up before having a certificate pullback or having a pullback now but later rise. What is your big picture outlook . Do you have a oneyear bitcoin call, and what is it based on . Ophelia i think a lot of that discussion around a potential pullback in the Market Centers around the point in time in which the rewards through bitcoin minors reduces by 50 . The reason people are assuming this is that there is an assumption that dynamic is priced in, in some way, and there will be some overbought dynamics. I think this is a little bit different than what is currently being discussed. Quite friendly, i think that is a little overblown, that the size and impact relative to the size of his additional flows is always symmetric. I cannot ticket will create as much i do not think it will create as much of a selloff event as was addicted predicted. This is not as much as impactful of an event as previous market cycles. Longerterm, i see quite a bit of upside. The halving does further restrict the supply side of the market. Ultimately, as long as demand continues, that should be a positive indicator for price action. That will take time. As long as you continue to see an increase in institutional adoption and demand for u. S. Etfs, european etfs, a more broadly from the International Investor community, that is where you will see price continue to come up. That is something i am quite bullish towards this year. Caroline Ophelia Snyder, thank you. Ed coming up, covariant announced the software behind the hardware. This is bloomberg. Hey you, with the small business. Whoa. Youve got all kinds of bright ideas, that your customers need to know about. Constant contact makes it easy. With everything from managing your social posts, and events, to email and sms marketing. Constant contact delivers all the tools you need to help your business grow. Get started today at constantcontact. Com constant contact. Helping the small stand tall. Ed lets talk robotics. Covariant, a 7yearold ai robotics company, that works with retailers around apparel, health, beauty, and pharmaceuticals announced a new Robotics Foundation model, rfm1, that will give robots a humanlike ability to reason and, with that, a deeper understanding of language and the physical world. Delighted to bring on covariant ceo and cofounder peter chen. We talk about humanoid robots broadly. You are working on the software side, not the hardware side. Explain the approach of covariant. Peter covariant is building the gpt of robotics. Think about it as the general purpose brain that can sit behind any robotics hardware that gives the ability to see the world, think about what is happening behind around it, and make decisions intelligently. This is a big contrast with traditional robotics, which is training robots do the same thing again and again, which does not cut it today in todays any factoring environments. Very unique approach is we do not build a single specific ai that can solve one task. We are approaching it in a similar manner that, like for example, a Large Language Models are approaching chatbots. It is a single model powering multiple use cases. Ed here is the thing. You do not control hardware side. Take comparison. I do not know your thoughts on the optimists take tesla as a comparison. I do not know your thoughts on the optimus program. program. What are the risks and benefits of focusing on Jive Software if you are not doing purpose built hardware to match it . Peter on optimus, we think it is an amazing robotics program. It has been iterated very quickly. From a covariant perspective, we believe there is not a single hardware factor it is very diverse. There will not be a Single Software or hardware that rules it all. We believe there will be multiple different kind of robot form factors, some human, some with robot to robot manipulators on top of it. These still need to make sense of the same physical world. Covariant is building that. The same brain that can make sense of the physical world. Caroline talk to us about the inputs here. What are the intricacies you need to go about building the largest data set ever to train this new Robotics Foundation model . Peter that is an amazing question. We have seen the explosive success of the large lang which model. What is behind its amazing generalization power is the fact that it is trained on the whole internet of text. If you want to build a robot ai that is as smart, for example, a large lang which model, but in the physical world, you need to build the same data set him up but is no internet to scrape. You need to deploy a large fleet of robots in the world, doing diverse and dynamic things, kind of collecting that video data, image data, robot actions, and the outcome of those robot actions in order to really train a model that understands the world in all kinds of settings and be robust, even in the long term scenarios and truly doable a human Level Performance to our customers. Caroline the reason you have been able to get such a wide, varied, underlying data set is because of the amount of countries your in. Give us an idea where this model is already being applied . How are we already seeing it in our everyday lives . Peter we already deploy the covariant. Ai tim moore the duster more than dozens of customers, and they are empowering ecommerce from an operations in a lot of places. Very likely, if you have ordered and item during black friday, there is a really good chance that item has been touched by one of covariants robots operating around the world. Ed your favorite use case for the robotics you are working on . Peter my favorite for rfm1 is the ability to talk to it. Instead of robots rigidly doing the same thing again and again, we now have the ability to Committee Kate with robots in natural language. Very similar to how you will talk to chatgpt in natural language, democratizing access to ar, we are doing the same with robotics with rfm1. Ed covariant cofounder peter chen. Caroline coming up, interestingly, peter is an alumni of openai. We will discuss that and also the implications of Silicon Valley banks collapse. Khosla ventures founder vinod khosla joins us on that element. Lets check what is happening right now. Your words perform on the nasdaq 100, marvell technology. Their numbers came out friday. They were wearing about the fact that ai applications of marvels technology thus far not making up for the weakness in the rest of its networking business. This is Bloomberg Technology. Ed welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed ludlow here in san francisco. Caroline Caroline Hyde in new york, getting you a check on your markets. Eyeing plenty of macro data. Is it a shock once again to the overall system, when we think about Inflationary Pressures to having to be dialed up against . Only off about 1 10 of 1 . Looking at the big boy, the nasdaq 100. In the two year yield space as well, yields pushing up higher as we anticipate apps more pressure from Digital Currency<\/a> continues its rally. Ophelia snyder of 21shares joins us to discuss. Caroline and we will be joined by funeral close look to talk about one year after the closure of Silicon Valley<\/a> bank and we will be joined by vinod khosla to talk about one year after the closure of Silicon Valley<\/a> bank. We eye big macro points. Basically, where is Inflationary Pressure<\/a> taking us . Looking at the 10 year yield, up only some two basis points now. Still fading some that initial selloff but still carrying over from friday. Globally speaking, seeing a little bit of bottom picking in china at last. It seems after we wrapped up the focus on the Overall Party<\/a> and the future of the economic trajectory, china up about 2. 6 on chinese trading names in the u. S. That is the Golden Dragon<\/a> index i look at. Next, the area that moves apart from the risk concern we see of equity market and continues to power ever higher. Ed will dig into why the u. K. s looking favorably at bitcoin. 72,000 clips today. What do you have on micro . Ed you do see crypto related stocks moving higher, coinbase kind of the main ones up. At one point in the session, trading at its highest level since 2021, its yeartodate gain beyond 50 now. That often happens, when rallies in bitcoin continue, so do the related equity. Meta on the downside, the biggest downside on the former President Trump<\/a> reiterated his comments that a ban on tiktok is bad because it would be good for meta, and he thinks meta is bad. The top stories about a name we will that will soon be publicly traded. That is reddit. 22 million shares. At the upper end of the range, 34 a share. If you take it on a diluted basis, the valuation about 6. 4 billion. It is kind of as much about what you learn about the company and what you dont. We have been waiting for this one since 2021, when they filed confidentially, and they kind of missed what was a banner year for u. S. Ipos then. Caroline bloombergs randgold rheingold what do you think insinuates what was left out . I think there was a little bit left, a question mark about exactly how much that was going to be offered. There was question as to whether or not there would be more. There have been calls, is it 5. 4, 6. 4 that is a valid question. On a fully diluted basis, it does extend as much as 6. 4 billion. But we wrote that the early testing waters Meeting Survey<\/a> should target 5 billion as a minimum. That is in the ballpark they have gone to. What i do think is interesting from the filing is this 8 that is going it is their employees, some of their existing shareholders, and also the fact that a lot of those shares are not going to be locked up. Come tomorrow, if there is a pop, you could be selling these shares, if you feel so inclined. Ed and not only what we call insiders, staff, but if you are a redditor or moderator on the platform, you can get access to the shares, too. You and i were talking, when they sent out those memos to the redditors, they said you could get in on the ipo at the same level as wall street situational investor. How big a factor, if it is just a percent of shares, and there is no lock on them, how do you think that is going to impact trading on the day . Ryan i would put this in the ballpark of curious, because there is this campaign on reddit itself, amongst the wall street bets crowd, on shorting the stock on the open tomorrow. I think there is a lot of bravado around that. But this is an ipo about trying to strike equality for reddit and its employees, its customers. Reddit would not have got to this place had it not been for those very loyal users might start a hind it in these past three years, because a lot of them have been waiting for this moment. Some of them may not agree that public is the right one, but this is a transition for the company. This is something theyre looking to move past, because there is a whole lot of stuff to be done as a Public Company<\/a> after trading, which is expected to be next week. Caroline we have had glimmers in the ipo space recently. There is a key ai name. More broadly, if this does go well, do we think more Technology Names<\/a> will follow behind . Ryan for sure, not least because i think this window we are in now there has been so much written about and said about it. Reddit is going to be a significant bellwether. A lot of the sponsorbacked tech names. Three risk solutions, that we have also covered that all said, there is a huge backlog of tech name with eyes on today, tomorrow, next week, not least to see where the book falls, because we should get a sense wednesday, thursday as to how the book is a building. Next week, we should see how firm the demand is across the price range. That will feed directly into the momentum that will follow. Caroline ed . Ed also, i point out for the redditor out there that, on wall streets bets forum, thousands of voted a post that upvoted a post that called for reddit to be short sold when it opens. Coming up on the show, we sit down with Ophelia Snyder<\/a> of one stairs of 21 shares as bitcoin hits a new record, 72,000 u. S. Per token. Caroline global stock, taiwanese semiconductor. We have been off by some 3 throughout u. S. Trading and in its own trading, but the fact that we have now seen it clips, eclipse broadcom means it is back in the top 10 of most valuable companies in the world. This is still a bet on artificial intelligence. This is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. How am i going to find a doctor when im hallucinating . What about zocdoc . So many options. Yeah, and dr. Xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. Xichun, xichun, xichun youve got more options than you know. Book now. When you automate sales tax with avalara, you dont have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. Avalarahhh ahhh caroline bitcoins surging to a new record, 72,000 per token today. Digital assets scored another win, more globally speaking to the London Stock Exchange<\/a> will soon accept Exchange Traded<\/a> notes backed by bitcoin or either. Running us now, 21shares cofounder and president Ophelia Snyder<\/a>. Already got your presence here in the u. S. And europe, so i can imagine, youre looking at how you start to cross those ts, dot thos is. Ophelia absolutely. We are quite excited that the u. K. Is looking to allow these listings domestically. It should be quite an important change for the european market. Caroline what is dressing is there is still racism on the u. K. Market on allowing retail to have access to such overall assets that are traded in this way. What is the difference you are seeing between u. S. , between europe, and potentially the u. K. , as to whether this is institutional money they want to bring in or still allowed easier access for a Retail Investor<\/a> . Ophelia europe has, for a long time, includings with dylan, allowed both retail and Institutional Investors<\/a> in. That has been our bread and butter, catering to both for the last five years as we brought these products to market. What we are seeing in the u. S. Is different. It is still early for big institutions in the u. S. Most require 90 days to assess compliance and do diligence on existing wires. That has barely begun. I think you will see some things similar in the u. K. Over time, that we will see a little more retail participation. But it is early days still for that market. Ed i really appreciate carolines question, because we are still trying to understand what shortterm and longterm drivers are at play with bitcoin in particular. I always look at the chart over the weekend, because sunday rolls around, it is 20 47, and it always seems to start it is 24 7, and it always seems to start with momentum. Ophelia i think you are seeing this is not just the last for five days, but they are part of the narrative we are seeing institutional adoption in the u. S. It is quite early still, because not all of the wire houses and institutions have access to it, but youre beginning to see those types of investors, online come online. That is changing bitcoins structure and biaising it towards weekday trading in a way that has not been the case when it was a more retailfocused market more focused on asian hours. It is largely being driven by etf flows, which are traded on u. S. Hours. Ed what are the data sets you look at each day, beyond the spot price at any given moment . Ophelia i do not spend much time looking at the spot price at any given moment. I am typically more interested in fundamentals and what is happening from an on chain metrics perspective and what is happening within the Blockchain Community<\/a> and ecosystems. The reason for that is it is challenging to see signal to noise, whereas on chain metrics are a bit more sophisticated and tell you about what is actually happening within the blockchain. That is the basis of one of the products we operate in the u. S. , is productizing those metrics into an etf. Those are typically the things i look at. Caroline what has been so interesting is the bitcoin exuberance. Yes, it solidified it in terms of the dominated player, but still, all boats seem to have lifted. We were talking about mean points, some affiliated with politics, catching the meme zeitgeist. But there are other products you have out there you have avalanche, uniswap. How are you seeing real desire to be going outside bitcoin and ethe . Ophelia we have seen a lot of concentrated desire on bitcoin at the moment. We will see if that dynamic spreads to ethe as the regulatory process in the u. S. Moves forward. Beyond those top two names, we have seen quite an uptick in demand. We are quite a unique firm in that capacity. We are really the only people flu offer that brought a sweet, covering all sorts of different really the only people offering that broad a suit. A key name would be Something Like<\/a> solana, where we have seen an enormous amount of interest over the last several months. That has continued as the overhang from some of the black swan events has dissipated and bankruptcy states have come undone, and you are seeing that there is still some interesting things happening within those communities and ecosystems that may or may not be priced in at these points. Caroline looking not just for a store of value but utility . The meme points to the opposite of that, greed for greeds sake. But is it too since want to see how this is changing dynamics but institutions want to see how this is changing dynamics. Ophelia exactly. What do these blockchains offer, these applications offer in terms of actual utility. That is a big shift versus prior market cycles, and it is coming partially from that institutionalization. I think it will be positive for the space. Ed every time i post on social media about a fresh bitcoin high, and there is one Venture Capital<\/a>ist who replies every time i like this stock you know what thats referencing. Bitcoin and other tokens are likely to go up before having a certificate pullback or having a pullback now but later rise. What is your big picture outlook . Do you have a oneyear bitcoin call, and what is it based on . Ophelia i think a lot of that discussion around a potential pullback in the Market Centers<\/a> around the point in time in which the rewards through bitcoin minors reduces by 50 . The reason people are assuming this is that there is an assumption that dynamic is priced in, in some way, and there will be some overbought dynamics. I think this is a little bit different than what is currently being discussed. Quite friendly, i think that is a little overblown, that the size and impact relative to the size of his additional flows is always symmetric. I cannot ticket will create as much i do not think it will create as much of a selloff event as was addicted predicted. This is not as much as impactful of an event as previous market cycles. Longerterm, i see quite a bit of upside. The halving does further restrict the supply side of the market. Ultimately, as long as demand continues, that should be a positive indicator for price action. That will take time. As long as you continue to see an increase in institutional adoption and demand for u. S. Etfs, european etfs, a more broadly from the International Investor<\/a> community, that is where you will see price continue to come up. That is something i am quite bullish towards this year. Caroline Ophelia Snyder<\/a>, thank you. Ed coming up, covariant announced the software behind the hardware. This is bloomberg. Hey you, with the small business. Whoa. Youve got all kinds of bright ideas, that your customers need to know about. Constant contact makes it easy. With everything from managing your social posts, and events, to email and sms marketing. Constant contact delivers all the tools you need to help your business grow. Get started today at constantcontact. Com constant contact. Helping the small stand tall. Ed lets talk robotics. Covariant, a 7yearold ai robotics company, that works with retailers around apparel, health, beauty, and pharmaceuticals announced a new Robotics Foundation<\/a> model, rfm1, that will give robots a humanlike ability to reason and, with that, a deeper understanding of language and the physical world. Delighted to bring on covariant ceo and cofounder peter chen. We talk about humanoid robots broadly. You are working on the software side, not the hardware side. Explain the approach of covariant. Peter covariant is building the gpt of robotics. Think about it as the general purpose brain that can sit behind any robotics hardware that gives the ability to see the world, think about what is happening behind around it, and make decisions intelligently. This is a big contrast with traditional robotics, which is training robots do the same thing again and again, which does not cut it today in todays any factoring environments. Very unique approach is we do not build a single specific ai that can solve one task. We are approaching it in a similar manner that, like for example, a Large Language Models<\/a> are approaching chatbots. It is a single model powering multiple use cases. Ed here is the thing. You do not control hardware side. Take comparison. I do not know your thoughts on the optimists take tesla as a comparison. I do not know your thoughts on the optimus program. program. What are the risks and benefits of focusing on Jive Software<\/a> if you are not doing purpose built hardware to match it . Peter on optimus, we think it is an amazing robotics program. It has been iterated very quickly. From a covariant perspective, we believe there is not a single hardware factor it is very diverse. There will not be a Single Software<\/a> or hardware that rules it all. We believe there will be multiple different kind of robot form factors, some human, some with robot to robot manipulators on top of it. These still need to make sense of the same physical world. Covariant is building that. The same brain that can make sense of the physical world. Caroline talk to us about the inputs here. What are the intricacies you need to go about building the largest data set ever to train this new Robotics Foundation<\/a> model . Peter that is an amazing question. We have seen the explosive success of the large lang which model. What is behind its amazing generalization power is the fact that it is trained on the whole internet of text. If you want to build a robot ai that is as smart, for example, a large lang which model, but in the physical world, you need to build the same data set him up but is no internet to scrape. You need to deploy a large fleet of robots in the world, doing diverse and dynamic things, kind of collecting that video data, image data, robot actions, and the outcome of those robot actions in order to really train a model that understands the world in all kinds of settings and be robust, even in the long term scenarios and truly doable a human Level Performance<\/a> to our customers. Caroline the reason you have been able to get such a wide, varied, underlying data set is because of the amount of countries your in. Give us an idea where this model is already being applied . How are we already seeing it in our everyday lives . Peter we already deploy the covariant. Ai tim moore the duster more than dozens of customers, and they are empowering ecommerce from an operations in a lot of places. Very likely, if you have ordered and item during black friday, there is a really good chance that item has been touched by one of covariants robots operating around the world. Ed your favorite use case for the robotics you are working on . Peter my favorite for rfm1 is the ability to talk to it. Instead of robots rigidly doing the same thing again and again, we now have the ability to Committee Kate<\/a> with robots in natural language. Very similar to how you will talk to chatgpt in natural language, democratizing access to ar, we are doing the same with robotics with rfm1. Ed covariant cofounder peter chen. Caroline coming up, interestingly, peter is an alumni of openai. We will discuss that and also the implications of Silicon Valley<\/a> banks collapse. Khosla ventures founder vinod khosla joins us on that element. Lets check what is happening right now. Your words perform on the nasdaq 100, marvell technology. Their numbers came out friday. They were wearing about the fact that ai applications of marvels technology thus far not making up for the weakness in the rest of its networking business. This is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Ed welcome back to Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Ed ludlow here in san francisco. Caroline Caroline Hyde<\/a> in new york, getting you a check on your markets. Eyeing plenty of macro data. Is it a shock once again to the overall system, when we think about Inflationary Pressure<\/a>s to having to be dialed up against . Only off about 1 10 of 1 . Looking at the big boy, the nasdaq 100. In the two year yield space as well, yields pushing up higher as we anticipate apps more pressure from Inflationary Pressure<\/a>. Bitcoin managing to separate itself as an asset class today. Not looking at tech more broadly as a spillover. Up 4. 3 , a level never seen before with bitcoin. I want to focus in on what has been happening with moderna, leading the charge on the nasdaq 100. Maybe it will be able to find application of its technology into the skin cancer space, and that is something they will be teaming up and working on. Also looking at what is happening with pdd, some of the chinese names managing to get a lift, some analysts notes saying the geopolitical risks are over for these names. Up some 3 . Meta on the downside. Off by more than 4 . No no real fundamental catalyst, other than former President Trump<\/a> on cnbc earlier today, reiterating what he says on true social, that he feels any ban of tiktok would be a negative, because it would empower and embolden the likes of meta, which owns facebook and instagram. Ed a year ago today, fear was spreading following the collapse of Silicon Valley<\/a> bank. In a matter of a few days, svb went from a plans of an emergency sale of its stock to vcs and set ups money out, to u. S. Regulators taking control. For a wow, it looked like contagion could spread through the u. S. Banking system. Just a year on, where do we stand . I want to bring on vinod khosla. I wanted you to come on the program in part because you are one of the first vcs to look at what was happening and offered to make personal loans to the founders of the startups in your portfolio, but you are also a Silicon Valley<\/a> veteran and had a Close Association<\/a> with Silicon Valley<\/a> bank by virtue of doing business. What was the net result of all of that . Vinod the net result has been minimal, to be honest. People have moved on. They have other banking sources. Some of the people involved are still around, working for other firms and other entities. Lfe g life goes on. The valley has adjusted. Ed you noted other sources of banking. It brought names like mercury, what i would call alternative lending or transaction services, to the fore. If there were lessons learned, it was high concentrations at svb. If you were an early stage startup, you had your banking there but you also have your debt there as well. It was also the first place you could get a check. Is that concentration risk still there . Vinod the risk for Silicon Valley<\/a> bank had nothing to do with Silicon Valley<\/a> and startups. It had to do with Interest Rate<\/a> speculation, which the bank did. I want to separate irresponsible actions on their part, on the Interest Rate<\/a> side, from what the business was. I think the business was a solid business. It mostly has continued in the same way. I do not think it has changed dramatically. Alternative banks came up, but there are other banks are still the printable things for startups in the valley. I do not know if there is as much concentration, but you do not worry about that too much. Caroline what has been interesting is, perhaps, there was a moment of realization in a time of a crisis who could you depend on . There was so much fierce competition to get in money to the right start up. Yes, that competition perhaps faded a bit as the economy turned direction, but has it brought you more business, do you think, by the fact you were able to stick your neck out early and say, i am here, ive got your back . Vinod that was what was most disappointing about the Venture Community<\/a> for me. I called another a number of other leading Venture Capital<\/a> firms and said we should all support our companies. It is a temporary crisis, a couple of weeks, maybe, but i did not get a lot of support, so we had to unilaterally go out and say, for our portfolio companies, where we were major or lead investors, we would support all of them. I think every firm should have done that, because venture likes to talk about how they help their portfolio companies, but when the going got tough, most people did not stand up to that scrutiny. Caroline has it stopped you going in turnarounds with other players . Vinod it has not. We continue to work for the same players. But we do not rely as much on other players to add value to investors when the going gets rough. Ed at its core, because this is Bloomberg Technology<\/a> were looking at this from the point of view of startups themselves. There was a discussion about access to working capital. There was risk on the bank side, but today, do you think there is a stronger access to working capital for startups of all sizes . Vinod access to capital depends on the area you are in. If you are in ai, have lots of access to capital. If you are not, it is somewhat harder, because many of the funds are not doing as well, because they had to mark 2021 and 2020 high prices down. It does not change the reality. This scene is still very robust, both in ai, obviously, and in other areas. I find the Venture Community<\/a> is investing, but the startups are even more exciting and more impactful. Ed we should have a conversation about artificial intelligence. Khosla ventures cofounder vinod khosla will stick with us. This is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Caroline this is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Coming up, Bloomberg Television<\/a> will be speaking with john rogers, 3 00 p. M. Eastern, 12 00 p. M. Pacific. This is bloomberg. Ed welcome back to Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Still with us is vinod khosla, Silicon Valley<\/a> veteran, and one of the First Investors<\/a> to write a check into openai. Its stock continues to be in the headlines, but most recently that is due to a lawsuit filed by elon musk, accusing openai of reach of contact and failing in fiduciary duty to its founding numbers, because it no longer operates as a not for profit or pursues its original goal of building beneficial artificial general intelligence for the benefit of humanity. You took to x in a threaded series of posts to basically say you think elon musk is wrong. What is your thesis on why elon musk is wrong . Vinod well, it is very clear. Elon musk wanted openai to go aggressively but were next on his commitment to put up 1 billion. Ed you are referencing there what the general public learned as being emails that were redacted that openai chose to post to its website. In one of them, even though the names are redacted, elon musk forwards a number that suggests that scale of funding needs to be in the billions, but also that and i am quoting as correctly as i can openai attached itself to tesla. Vinod i am referring to the fact that, before that happened, he wanted openai to move aggressively and raise up to 1 billion, and he would commit to making up anything they could not raise from other sources, since, at that point, it was a nonprofit. That is when we realized, from the emails, that he pivoted to wanting it to be a subsidiary of tesla. Tesla was developing Self Driving Technology<\/a> for their cars. It was part of the ai push. And he chose to try and take control, which did not quite work for him, and that was the source of the conflict. Caroline what is so interesting is, of course, in many ways, go to the heart of the case, whether or not there is the legal grounding in it. There is this interesting that, ultimately, openai had to make, you so articulately make, that this is about survival. It is no longer feasible to have an open source model that you been tens of billions of dollars you spend on r d and give it to everyone else. Are you, in any way, having pause about the closeness of openai now with microsoft . Does any of that take time in your head as i worry for you . Vinod i am not worried at all with the microsoft relationship. It is a minority relationship. They do not own the majority. It is structured such that both for for both firms benefit. The larger sources of ai in the will, google, of course, has great ai technology, and we have it in baidu in china also. My original reason to invest was there needed to be a source outside of china to help compete with china in this important technology. But i am not worried about microsofts control. I think the rumors and speculation about it is just plain false. Caroline what is so interesting as we talk of you as a veteran of venture. You are one of the most high respect the people in this space. Open source was sort of an area you helped spawn within sun microsystems. Did you ever anticipate you will be drawn into basically meme arguments with, at one point, the most wealthy man in the world . How do you feel about having to take to x in this way . Vinod it is not about the argument with elon. The argument is really about our competition, our technological war with china, which ive talked about before. If we have powerful technology, we should not be open sourcing and giving it to china and other bad nationstates, russia, north korea among them. They are benefiting a lot from the stateoftheart open source. I am still a big fan of open source in almost all other areas, including other areas of ai, which are not stateoftheart technology. Ed you have you may have seen on x elon musk posted to his account that, this week, grawk would be open sourced. Do you have an interpretation of what musk meant by that . Based on what you said, you would be supportive of that. Vinod i saw the tweet. I am fine with it. I do not think grawk is stateoftheart, but i have not personally evaluated it. It will get better. It started only recently. If it is stateoftheart technology, i think we should control the export of that technology as closely as we control Nuclear Technology<\/a> or other National Security<\/a> technologies. To be clear, it is not just about National Security<\/a> with china. It is beyond that. It is clinical power coming from economic power globally, because of how powerful this technology is. Ed i actually wanted to go back, and i probably should have asked at the beginning, but we always say, you are one of the first people to write a check into openai, and you have a longstanding relationship with what is an evolving business, right. Explain to our audience what your relationship with openai is, how involved you are, or not, daytoday. Vinod we were really really investors. I am not daytoday involved in every decision. I was very curious to see the Senate Committee<\/a> report, which sam insisted on at the time the board was being constituted. It completely cleared sam of any wrongdoing. It went on to say sam did a great job and many other functions aco is supposed to do, and blame the board for acting hastily. I do believe the board was irresponsible in the way it acted last thanksgiving. I am glad the report clarified all that and validated all that. Caroline lets look at the new, announced friday. There is more diversity in terms of more women. One of them the ceo of one of your portfolio companies. I am interested in whether you think there is enough diversity from a racial perspective, what you make of this board being announced . Vinod those are all accomplished people. I would not call them just women. They are accomplished and very qualified to be on the board and add a lot. They have done very different kinds of businesses. There is some nonprofit experience, and i think the goal of openai, to benefit humanity, has not changed. One of the reasons sam worked with us because he realized we had a strong focus and large positive impact in all the work we did, and i focus on, so i do not think the goal of openai has changed from benefiting humanity. It needed a forprofit arm, and that structure is common globally. Where nonprofits own or are part of a forprofit, ikea, mozilla in the u. S. , many, many entities. My view is its goals have not changed. The board has experience in both forprofit and notforprofit, and that is a great thing. Caroline mozilla foundations founder has been saying maybe sam has lost his way, in that respect, to the forprofit from nonprofit. Ultimately, the mission is the best way to carefully steward agi into existence, a gradual existence to a world with agi is a gradual rather than a sudden one. It is interesting you reference china i was sat with keifer lee, and he now feels he is worried about the speed of agi, the progress we are making more generally. He does not think the pace of change is controllable at the moment. What do you make of that . Vinod technology develops at the pace it develops. We cannot predict richters in technology ahead of time. It has happened faster, and we should be more cautious. Absolutely, Security Research<\/a> should be part of what every university and government funds, so i am a big fan of that. But i do not think we need to slow down agi developing or ai development. We are far from it. We are making rapid progress. I think that is a good thing. It would really, really benefit humanity. I am a big fan of not slowing it down. Ed lets try to move this moment forward. Elon musk is an incredibly influential person. He has a history of litigation in many of the fields in which he has operated. If you could give one message to him i know it was a threaded series of messages, and we are showing some of them now what is it you want out of the situation . Vinod i want to remind him that, when blue origin, jeff poses jeff bezos, sued spacex, elon tweeted, you cant sue your way into space. I want to remind him you cannot sue your way into agi. He is hiring great people and building the technology, which is the right way to compete. Ed we will try to get that message to elon musk. We have of course invited elon musk to the program. Great to have vinod khosla here on what has been a busy weekend for him. Caroline great deep dive. What else is happening this weekend . Hollywoods old guard had a big night last night. Netflix winning just one award, apple with none. This is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. How am i going to find a doctor when im hallucinating . What about zocdoc . So many options. Yeah, and dr. Xichun even takes your sketchy insurance. Xichun, xichun, xichun youve got more options than you know. Book now. Sales tax automatically. Avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change . Ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns . Ahhhhhh business license guidance . Ahhhhhh crossborder sales . Ahhhhhh item classification . Ahhhhhh does it connect with acc. . Ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ed time for talking tech. Apple is preparing to open it eighth store in shanghai this month, adding to the tech titans largest Retail Network<\/a> after the United States<\/a> as iphone sales in china are slowing. Their new store will be located in the center of the city, which already hosts of the largest number of apple stores on chinas mainland. Tiktoks owners would be forced to sell the social media platforms enable the house plans to vote on this week. If it advances through both houses of congress, President Biden<\/a> said he would sign, his strongest support of the proposal yet. Plus, the u. S. Could further tighten controls on chinas access to sophisticated Semi Conductor<\/a> technologies. Commerce secretary Gina Raimondo<\/a> giving us that signal. Washington may also intensify its campaign to prevent beijing catching up in military capabilities. She told reporters we will do whatever it takes to protect our people, including expanding controls. Caroline yesterday, the academy of Motion Pictures<\/a> arts and sciences held its 95th ceremony, where open heimer cleaned up. It is a documentary about the nuclear bomb, which included breast which included best director. What happened to maestro . It had so many potentials to win and did not manage to walk away with anything . Ed so many podcasts i listen to would say maestro will take a lot of these, and it didnt. Everyone is arguing about that point, open heimer oppenheimer versus maestro. Caroline it was back to those Universal Pictures<\/a> perspectives, apple disney managing to turn out the goods. Im sure it got the most view in years. Ed and if we do a deeper postmodern we would say what about netflix . What about apple as well . Caroline that is it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Ed please recap the show on the podcast. It was a deep conversation with vinod khosla. The podcast is on apple, spotify, iheart, and the bloomberg platforms as well. This is Bloomberg Technology<\/a>. Investment opportunities are everywhere you turn. Do you charge forward . Freeze in your tracks . Or, let curiosity light the way. At t. Rowe price, we ask Smart Questions<\/a> about opportunities like advances in healthcare and how these innovations will create a healthier world tomorrow. Better questions. Better outcomes. Scarlet welcome to bloomberg etf iq. Looks like stocks are taking a little bit of a breather which introduces the question, what is the next catalyst for scarlet this market. Scarlet just a couple of inflation reads. Katie bitcoin does not seem to need a catalyst. Lets get to the stories in the more than 12 trillion etf industry. Coin topping 72 tho","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia800208.us.archive.org\/29\/items\/BLOOMBERG_20240311_150000_Bloomberg_Technology\/BLOOMBERG_20240311_150000_Bloomberg_Technology.thumbs\/BLOOMBERG_20240311_150000_Bloomberg_Technology_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240707T12:35:10+00:00"}