Meadows will have some kind of terms with the d. A. In georgia. All right, thank you very much, evan perez and thanks very much to all after you for being with us tonight. Ac 360 starts right now. Its 3 00 a. M. Here in tel aviv the news right now and the day unfolding on three fronts. The momentum towards sending troops into gaza, the effort to bring out more hostages. And the pressure on israel to allow humanitarian aid into gaza. Most notably fuel to Power Generators at the hospital. There are governments in three areas. Reporting on it throughout this hour. First, though, two new items. The idf a thwarted Amphibious Raid on tuesday, the other was a phone call played by the Foreign Minister for the u. N. Security council. Cnn has independently translated it, we cant confirm when it was recorded. The Foreign Minister said it was made by a hamas gunman on a phone from a woman he just kil killed. Proud murderer bragging to his proud parents. Cnns jim sciutto is with me. In a war full of astonishing moments of the depravity of what was witnessed on october 7th, this is one of those moments, as you listen to the audio, playing to the u. N. Security council, an attempt to show the depth of the depravity behind these act. This gets to the mindset behind it, that one of the attackers involved here and that seemed to be one they were playing. Cnn cant confirm of where or how it was recorded. I would like to listen to this recording. This is a terrorist of hamas, what he said there in arab, telling to his mother and father, that hes proud that theres blood of the jewish that he murdered. What struck me listening to this audio here and we have covered too many Terror Attacks we can barely account for all of them, well often see the depravity itself as its played out, we dont often get a vision into the mind set of the people playing it out. What you hear here is the depth of the hatred where a young man would brag about it to his parents and his parents would respond with pride. A new level of personalization in this Terror Attack. In christchurch in new zealand when the gunman slaughtered people he livestreamed it. We have a 75yearold murdered in her living room and hamas Gunman Access her facebook account, livestreamed those images to her friends and family, they got Friend Requests and livestreamed that. The documentation on the slaughter, the selfdocumentation by the gunmen themselves is truly extraordinary, thats just now coming out. Its perform tif, too. They want credit. And tell their parents to share in the sick joy of it. What about the cell of hamas divers that we heard about . Remarkable the number of level first of aural when you think of hamas clearly a Terrorist Group, a Terrorist Group with military capabilities and what we saw on october 7th for instance they dont have an air force but they were able to invade from the air with those motorized paragliders, right, and in this case here they dont have navy or ships, but this was a Navy Special Option Operation that the idf says was carried out today. In effect, hamas s. E. A. L. If you can imagine that. Idf was able to get them. Not the first time weve seen this 2014, a similar attempted attack. Beyond the capabilities it shows their continuing ambition, because gaza as we have been reporting every day is under punishing air assaults right now. Hamas was still attempting to strike out of gaza and get into israeli territory. Hamas is attempting to strike out of gaza every single day. We dont notice it as much because israel has an iron dome system. Its just theyre not killing all the civilians theyd like to kill because of the israel defense. Reporter theyre willing and able to attempt, not just from the air attacks via shelling and rockets but also via a Ground Operation and a fairly sophisticated one. Intercepted by idf but one shows that the sophistication of their capabilities. A Lieutenant General has come over, very experienced and believe in particularly in urban combat. He commanded marines in fallujah. The message that american commanders seem to be giving the israelis is weve seen this kind of war that youre contemplating here in gaza. Urban warfare with a terror group infiltrated throughout. We saw it in fallujah, it was bloody and long but we outgun them. Part of the message you dont want that kind of war, right, and its going to take a long time and have enormous costs. It seems the recommendation is something more like a combination of air strikes and Smaller Special operations raids. And a perfect person to deliver that message because he commanded u. S. Forces in fallujah. For more on all of this, the arrival, were joined by former retired general kenneth mckinsey. General, appreciate you being with us. First of all, an audio like that was played at the u. N. Today, what is your reaction web you hear that . So, two things, first of all, its accurately captures the horrific nature of the attack. Its stark, ugly and frightening. But it also speaks to the difficulty of the operation that the idf is contemplating to go into gaza, these are people who are going to be fighting in gaza, people who will do everything they can to fight and fight very hard against the israelis within they elect to come in and i know thats why the idf is carefully calibrating that to accommodate this. I talked to some former Military Officers who were in iraq, when asked about the comparisons to fallujah or mosul, they say they think what israel is or has a ahead of it in gaza city is even more complicated what the u. S. Faced in fallujah and mosul because of the civilian population. I think thats an accurate s assessment. Hamas is better equipment. Long time to work at the problem and theyre going to present a multidimensional threat to idf when they come in, youll be fighting on the surface of the earth, fighting underneath the surface of the earth and in the elaborate Tunnel System that theyve had decades to perfect. Hamas is going to be flying small drones over israel. The Israeli Air Force will be on top to provide precision fire. Its going to be a hard go. Accurate to say this will be one of the most difficult urban combat problems. One more observation when you get into an urban environment many of the technological advantages are erased because youre at very close range with your opponent. Youll be Fighting Room to room, up and down stories in a single building, its going to be a very, very close battle and that tends to then actually devolve on the small unit leadership. Who are going to be able to keep their soldiers in the fight going forward. Ive read accounts of Tunnel Rats Who fought in the u. S. Army during vietnam in the marines, i assume Tunnel Warfare has evolved a lot, the sophistication of these tunnels, how do you fight in tunnels . You eventually got to go down in there. Im sure the israelis will use robotics. But what youll have to go down there and i will expect many of these hostages are going to be held. Id note from my observation the hostages are clearly important, thats very important to us all, but hamas is going to use the entire civilian population of gaza as hostages in this attack. Theyre going to attempt to manufacture Mass Casualty Events so they can play that out in the Information Space against the idf, the idf is going to work very hard to mitigate those opportunities. The simple fact of the matter is on this battlefield civilians are going to die despite the very best efforts of the idf and theyll try to minimize that. I know they will. I know these leaders. However it goes in whether its broad front attack or special operations forces, the israelis will attempt to minimize casualties. At the same time, hamas is going to work relentlessly to maximize civilian casualty and whats different about the comparison to fallujah and mosul is the presence of cameras and social media and the fast, i mean information moves faster than it did it in fight against fallujah and mosul. A multidimensional fight, thats another dimension to this, isnt it . It is. Personal communications, the internet, the web, the ability to reach out there, but only the technical changes but we have seen weve seen a difference in the approach to information. For most of my career, the event was what was important, an event occurred and you talked about the event. In The World Today with hamas theres no relationship with the truth necessarily with what theyre saying, i believe the israelis will seek to have a relationship with the truth that means youre always going to be slower because you want to check your facts. I think hamas has no requirement to have a relationship with the truth, or even have an event to occur to spin something into the vast and infinite web. Thats another tactic theyll use relentlessly. Theyre using it now and theyll use it in the future. General kenzie, thank you so much. Want to talk about the hostages and the effort now under way to secure their release in larger numbers and the two yesterday and two on friday. Clarissa ward has the latest on that and he joins us now from cairo, what do we know about these negotiations . So this is a very delicate dance thats going on now, anderson w multiple parties involved. Trying to broker some agreement. Basically, hamas is asking for a pause that they say would allow them to consolidate all the different hostages they have into one place, they would release them in exchange for fuel and in exchange for aid. Israel has said no way youre getting a pause because if we give you a pause youll be able to regroup and consolidate your own forces, then the americans are saying to israel, please can you avert or at least delay a ground invasion, because were worried that that would have a negative impact on these Hostage Negotiations. Source telling cnn they believe maybe the israelis you know will delay somewhat but they dont think that time frame will slip beyond a few days so clearly were getting to a very crucial stage with these Hostage Negotiations, but theres still a huge amount of daylight between the various different parties that are involved. Idf today dropping leaflets over gaza imploring ordinary civilians living there to provide information about hostages whereabouts and conducting some limited raids across the border presumably some of those with the design of trying to locate some of those hostages. But no sense yet of when this deal might actually come together and its a deal, that if it did come together, to net the release of dozens of hostages. So far weve only seen those two americans, Two American Women and also two elderly israeli women. This is a much more ambitious. And more complex, anderson. So, the dispute is over fuel and thats something that hamas is saying they want, i assume theyre saying that is for hospitals and other needs for civilians, obviously the view of the idf that fuel may be diverted by hamas. Reporter this is interesting, because weve seen the israeli position move back and forth, just in the course of one day, anderson, earlier in the afternoon the head of idf came out and say they believed that fuel should be able to get to civilians and they were going to come up with some sort of mechanism that would prevent it from being taken by hamas. A few hours after that, we saw a spokesperson for the idf come forward and say, actually no fuel is going into gaza because we believe that hamas is going to use it for their own military aims. On the other side, you have humanitarian organizations like the u. N. Agencies unrwr come out well have to completely stop our operations inside gaza. Were hearing the same thing from the hospitals as with el the generators will be literally out of fuel, theyll turn off, the incubators more than a hundred babies across gaza in incubators. The ventilators, et cetera, theyll all turn off with devastating consequences. U. N. Said already eight hospitals are no longer operational because they have run out of fuel, two other hospitals have also had partial outages or had to cut off part of their operations because of the fuel. Fuel is very much at the center of Hostage Negotiations and the center of the desperation in terms of getting aid to people inside. Clarissa ward, thank you, from cairo. Earlier tonight, i spoke the regional director for the middle east. What is the latest on the ongoing efforts to release hostages . Look, i mean, the most important thing for us, its first to Reach Out To Hamas and be clear on the obligation, i know that for the time being we hear a lot about negotiation. And a transactional approach. Its important to remind the parties in this case, hamas, he has a unilateral obligation to protect the people, that we should have access to them, people should be entitled to communicate with their family, and the ones who are hostages should be simply released because its not acceptable and its not allowed. As simple as this. Thats the starting point at least for us as a humanitarian organization. Theres been lots of concerns raised by israeli officials about humanitarian supplies being taken from relief agencies, used by hamas, fuel that should go to a hospital perhaps being taken, is that something the red cross has the International Community of red cross has had problems with in gaza. Is that something you would call out . Yeah, for sure. You know, we are as many humanitarian organizations, confronted with these challenges all around the world. We have the systems in place to be sure, to do whatever we can to make sure that the assistance we bring goes to the right person, if today we bring medical supply, we go to the hospital and we see where it goes and to whom it goes. In our case when it comes to fuel, we mainly provide it to pumping station, to hospitals, at the risk of diversion is quite low. I understand the concern. Its a legitimate concern. But in my view, it doesnt just defy justify the fact that we wouldnt be allowed to bring in this case fuel. What we try to do is also to focus on people and i think one of the main challenges we have in conflict, especially in a conflict in gaza, emotions are really high and both party im not judging if its right or wrong have a narrative of survival and when youre in conflict with all parties have a narrative of survival its really hard to make a case for simple humanitarian values. Its important have an organization like the icsc to take a step back and remind that, yes, its painful. Yes, you want revenge, yes youre afraid, but nevertheless you need to preserve a space, a space of humanitarian. It sounds a bit naive when we see whats happening around us, but it sounds naive but its not, because the reality of conflict is so brutal that if you dont preserve this small space of humanity, the day after will be way more difficult. Thank you so much. For being with us and for what you do. Thank you very much. Term trying to preserve a small space of humanity, not an easy thing to do in a war ahead tonight a potential Big Development back home, new reporting that former white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows was granted immunity by special counsel jack smith. What it could mean for the former president. Next, though from here, my conversation with a daughter of one of the two women freed last night. Some of the names and faces well be showing you throughout the hour the many others taken from a Kibbutz Nir Oz. Today one of two women released by Hamas Last Night spoke about their ordeal. 85 years old. She was taken on october 7th from Kibbutz Nir Oz. Their two husbands remain captive. Translator i was on motor booik on the side. They exploded the fence. The special one they built with 2. 5 billion and it didnt help at all. Hordes broke into our home, hit people, some were taken hostages, it didnt matter if they took elderly or young. It was a painful act. Then they got us to a tunnel. As i was lying on the side of the motorbike, they didnt break my ribs but it was very painful and made it hard for me to breathe. The woman by her side during that Press Conference on her left thats her daughter. She was at Londons Heathrow airport on her way here, when we spoke again this morning, she returned to the hospital where she found her mom sleeping peacefully. How is your mother doing . My mom is looking okay. It seemed that she did get basic medical care, the nurse said that shes very sharp and very communicative and she wants to tell everybody what she knows, and i think shes very aware that she can pass on information i know that she was with some children and then she would have done quite a lot of work with them. I dont think she would have been sitting in corner. So shell be able to help families with information about their loved ones. Yes. Thats huge. This is a wonderful moment. But its also im sitting here talking to you not just to rejoice about my moms return as wonderful as it is but to remind everyone that were still in this situation, that there are over 200 people missing and that we want them back. We need to make sure that the governments of the world, that qatar continue to do its work, that we all work together, we stay focus, we bring these people home and my mom is back and its a ray of light, but theres a lot of darkness. Youve been to a kibbutz and youve seen what were facing. People are going to funerals every day, only from our kibbutz there are still about 77 people missing. A kibbutz of about 400 people . Yes, were talking about 1 in 3, 1 in 4 persons that are killed or missing. Reporter she knows them all. My father taught her the piano. My mom will come and make her cookies. She was one of her kibbutz grandchildren. Were all interconnected. Its like rafa, she had a smile thats so beautiful and so loving and so loving together and so many other people, i knew them all my life and they changed my