And thanks so much for joining us ac30, 60 begins now tonight on three, 60 protesters to filing deadlines and facing academic sanctions and campuses across the country. The latest live on the propalestinian demonstrations, the Police Response to elements of antisemitism and the impact this all could have on president ial politics. Also tonight to look ahead at what to expect when the trump Hush Money Criminal Trial resumes tomorrow morning here in new york, and a report from haiti. Cnn exclusive for the country torn apart by gangs. Or david culver tracks down in interviews, one gang leader whos now and the fbis ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. We begin with propalestinian Campus Demonstrations entering their second week and growing it seems not going away. We Spring Commencement fast approaching University Officials nationwide are now taking action to confront them. That said in different ways with different degrees of success, theyre juggling a lot freedom of expression, students, safety, alumni pressure, and of course, all of it driven by one of the worlds truly intractable conflicts. Want to go first as cnns ed lavendera, the university of texas in austin. Were please just apparently using pepper spray on some in the crowd within the last hour. And whats the latest where you are just explain whats happening around you. Well, all of the protesters that were taken into custody or we dont have an official number yet and a number of people arrested. But what we witnessed was several dozen protesters taken into custody once those people were moved off campus. Law enforcement if it serves, have now moved away from the scene. And this is what his left of the massive Protest Scene there are still a few people here gathered in the exact same spot where much of this protest started earlier in the de and it was incredibly tense for some time We Saw State Troopers once again return here to the campus and circle. This area that had been taken over with tense and dozens of students, which they described anderson has a liberated in kanban zone in solidarity with what other campuses have been doing as well. And when that happened with the tense come up, University Officials say that they were not going to have any tolerance for any kind of occupation or a tense that would signify that this was going to grow into a larger protest, a permanent larger protest. Asked here on the ground, and thats when we saw the State Troopers and Law Enforcement come in and over the course of several hours systematically just pull protestors onebyone, taking them away from the scene here. This afternoon and then there were protesters, essentially following Law Enforcement officers and State Troopers trying to force them chanting at them to get off of campus, pushing them away. And that led to the altercation that you talked about, the pepper spray as the officers were trying to get those that were arrested on the buses and off of the campus, as well as State Troopers in riot here that had been brought on to the campus. So another tense day, but i must say very different from what we saw last week in attention and in the islands altered violent altercations that we saw take place between protesters and Law Enforcement last week, there were nearly 60 people arrested. All of those criminal charges were dismissed. So itd be interesting to see what happens with the protesters that were taken in too custody here today at Austin Anderson is it clear how many are actual students at ut well, University Officials told us this afternoon in a statement that they believe that the majority of the people who were involved in todays protests were not students. In fact, they said it was a group that started sending threats to University Officials over the weekend and theyre the ones that organized. It was really interesting how this developed. There had been what had been built as an educational event. There was poetry reading, there was artwork. Im making protest signs that sort of thing. And then over here on the steps of the main tower building, there was a Silent Digital By Probe by professors. And as that happened, all of this kind of quickly developed into an encampment zone. So it almost seemed like a very deliberate kind of strategy and a plan to create this particular moment that we saw on campus today and thats what University Officials say. They were not going to put up with. And they also believed that much of this was caused by people who are not students here university, ed lavendera. Thanks very much. Next to Columbia University, which has started suspending Student Protesters for defying an order to leave there in canvas this afternoon, the school has also closed the canvas to anyone but students and staff. Sudans Miguel Marquez is at a protest just outside one entryway to the campus. So what does it look like right now where you are and what . What do seeing yeah, these are the main gates. There was a onesixteenth and broadway, there was a big protest here earlier today, several dozen protesters, but now its maybe a dozen, maybe a bit more than that. Still chanting inside you can see about 300 yards from here are where the encampment is. Those protesters in that encampment area, some of them have already been suspended, as he said, that the school after about 2 00 p. M. Deadline starting to the proceedings to suspend the students it sounds like theyre trying to identify everybody in that encampment suspend them so theyre no longer a students. Then at some point the university clearly does not want to call nypd. And again, after when they did that two weeks ago, it kicked off this backlash across the country. So theyre trying to avoid that. But once there are no longer students of columbia, push is going to come to shove push is going to come to shove at some point. And the question is when anderson, so were Police Called in to campus today because were seeing images and police putting somebody in a van. Was that yeah. Ill assign the camp out. There were police there. There wasnt a large number, but outside the campus, there were police or are still some nypd officers and we saw that arrests there was a woman that was up on this poll actually, the light pole at 1 16 and broadway, she was putting up posters. Shes said that police were telling her to get down. She refused. Apparently and thats when they took her away and put her in the van. Its not clear she was arrested. They just took her away. Maybe maybe they let her go a short time later. Its not clear what she was issues facing the charges at all, but she wasnt following the police orders. And thats why they let her away. Its not clear how much bigger this protest is going to be. Ive walked around the university to see on the other side of his the protests, but its very quiet over there, so it looks like were in this stalemate between protesters and the university. And at some points, push is going to come to shove and their into finals now commencements in two weeks, the university clearly wants to get on with the business of being an educational institution. And they got marquez. Thanks very much joining us now from campus at columbia as a columbia student and cnn freelancer, John Towfighi im john. How would have you seen today . How are things right now on campus . Yeah. Thank you for having me on anderson. Today is a beautiful monday evening. In fact, its the last day of classes for students at Columbia College and the other other graduate schools. And we see a lot of students Walking Around campus. And of course notably, we see dozens of students still indian cabinet and anderson as your viewers, you would like to know today, University PresidentMinouche Shafik put out a statement to the protesters and the encampment saying they had until 2 00 p. M. To disband. And like i said, there are dozens of students define the University Presence orders and still out on the lawns whats interesting to know is that this morning Minutiae Feeds sent an email to the Columbia Community at about 8 00 a. M. Notifying people that negotiations between the students and the administrators had indeed ended. However, what was not said in the email was that at about 10 00 a. M. The University Administration began to drop pamphlets in the encampment, notifying students of this 2 00 p. M. Deadline. As you can imagine, that drew a lot of people to campus to protect the students from potential eviction by the administration so that actually drew more people to the encampment. So at this point, you said, how large is the hammond right now to roughly do you know . Yeah. So since the encampment has been on the University Grounds since wednesday, april 17, there have been roughly 200 students coming going, sleeping overnight in the encampment. The number is hard to pin down. Show what i will say i was there on your laptop actually, is it behind you . I think im good luck. Show you here so im directly outside of the encampment. You can see there are tense as i spin around. You can see columbias butler library, which is the main library on campus. So the students are still out in force. And today, the students actually voted amongst themselves, whether they were going to adhere to the universitys demand to disband or whether they were going to stay i was here watching that vote and i tell you it was an overwhelming majority to stay with students raising their hands and cheering to stay on the encampment John Towfighi, i appreciate the report, john. Thank you very much thank you appreciate it. Joining us now is lawrence summers, former clinton treasury secretary and former president of harvard university, where hes now president and emiratis and the charles wlan university professor, secretary summers, thank you for being with its first. What is your reaction . To these protests, which we are now seeing on campuses at columbia and in texas. Weve seen the meta usc and other places these are very sad pictures. Students have a right to protest. They have a right to express themselves they dont have a right to disrupt. And its very clear that there are substantial disruption on many campuses and administrations have agonizingly difficult choices to me i wish they had made the decision not to allow these students to enter in the first place i wish that they had rapidly threatened escalating discipline and suspensions, inability to graduate, the inability to get credit for the semester. I wish they had been much stronger in responding to earlier provocations of which there have been many since october 7, i think if it had been managed right. We wouldnt be discussing Police Presences in the way that we are. I think its not difficult to respond to some things. For example, the John Harvard Statue at harvard has been defaced by a coffee in placed on it for four days and no one has even been removed that so i think these are very difficult issues. I think theres a lot you can do short of calling in the police, but it has to be completely clear sure. That you cannot disrupt with impunity. I also think that theres no reason why those who are not students who are disrupting Campus Activities should not be promptly arrested and charged with trespassing i think just as anybody on a university campus, when they get funding from the outside for their activities, is expected to be accountable. I think there needs to be close investigations of how these Protest Efforts are being funny so this is not about which side you are or how you think about antizionism versus emt semitism. This is about a basic concept of Academic Freedom which involves respect for order and too many campuses. Those values were not upheld with sufficient bigger over the last six months. Let me predict the consequences now, let me ask you, i mean, im wondering did you ever confronted situations like this when you were present in a harbor . I when i was at school, in the 1985 to 89, there were antiApartheid Protests on campus but it wasnt turning students against one another and students feeling threatened by other protesters who were screaming at them. Have you ever her face Something Like this i didnt there were not protests of this kind when i was at harvard, i think largely that was a function of the circumstance and what the particular moment was may also have had to do with the fact that there was a sense that there would be a strong when vigorous response. I agree with you that the thing thats most like this that i can remember is the events that took place during the vietnam war period where there were threats epithets hurled at people who were in the military or who supported the vietnam war and where there were active attempts to demonize people who were members of the community and you are seeing that in the acts that are taking place towards jewish and zionists students and that makes this a particularly repugnant form of speech in a way that was not the case in the Apartheid Protests or the living wage protest. It i have to say that ive got very little sympathy for these protesters and it seems to me that at a moral minimum, they want to recognize they feel what theyre doing is profoundly just but they should recognize as Martin Luther king did and as gandhi did, that, accepting punishment, even severe punishment was part of the act of Civil Disobedience rather than trying to rally rally allies to insert this that they will not be disciplined. It also seems that some of these, you know, theres professors on campus at columbia who are encouraging these protests. They have tenure. They cant be fired. The students can be kicked out. I was amazed to learn that one of the heads of the protests at columbia during a disciplinary committee, zoom call said that the zionist should be killed. It didnt deserve to live. And that wasnt grounds for expulsion. Its only now that that person has been expelled from the school months after that was already out there i dont im not going to comment on the facts of that situation because i dont precisely know it but yes, something i saw at harvard was a dean from the lead the title dean was busy feeding, passing food buried he goes into protesters who occupied one of our University Buildings and our administration did nothing about that. And now theyre surprised that protests have grown. And mushroom. So i think theres a real question about accountability for everyone. I think it is integral even though sometimes painful and problematic for faculty to have the right to express opinions in a very free thats Academic Freedom. But acting on those opinions with respect to Student Discipline having that freedom be extended to making statements on behalf of the university, having that freedom be extended to what they do when theyre supposed to be objective judges. Thats a much, much more problematic thing. I underneath its to be a lot of Soul Searching about way universities are governed and my own sense is that trustees who are the ultimate fiduciary, who make all these rules about tenure at Everything Else have been much too passive. R2d2, much of his seven lauren summers, i really appreciate it your time today. Thank you very much thank you. Joining us now is former fbi Deputy Director andrew mccabe, also charles ramsey, former Philadelphia Police commissioner, before that police chief for the district of columbia, andrew, how important is it in your view, four university of this kind of situation. I mean, how would you know the decision to actually bring in local Law Enforcement a columbia . I dont think that had been done really until since the 19 late 19, i think 1968 was the last time actually police nypd were called in on the campus yeah. Interesting. Its an incredibly impactful decision and its one that lawn or University Administrators should consider very closely before they do that, because once you bring Law Enforcement in, Law Enforcement is a very blunt tool, they are, theyre predominantly because the university has reached out and said, hey, we are the property owners. There are people here trespassing on our property in a way that we dont support and we need your help to remove those people. So thats basically what Law Enforcement thank can do, particularly in these private spaces, private universities, things like that. So theyre going to come in and try to help disperse the people who are no longer welcome in that space and theyre gonna do it by announcing that you have to leave and setting a deadline. But ultimately that removal of people becomes a very confrontational and hard