Transcripts For CNN The Amanpour Hour 20240922

Welcome to the amine for our, heres where were headed this week this week, we examined power and all the ways it affects our lives. First, were going to compete with china were determined to do that. Todays big Power Conflict between china and the United States. My conversation with veteran diplomat us ambassador To Beijing Nicholas Burns, then people have always been interested and now theyre sort of worried. And concern about oh, no Luck Power unchecked power. And the fact that it might be coming for america, the writer who examined a man named Robert Moses who had the power to build and trample over new York Pulitzer prize winning Author Robert Kara joins me. Why 50 years on his seminal book is still flying off the shelves now its safe, you know, so people stay in the deadly Power Struggle in El Salvador between a Strongman President and the criminal gangs. And what it all means for the United States and then in our letter from london, he unleashed her as his secret Weapon Kingmaker from churchill to clinton an unsung power player, the incredible story of Ambassador Pamela harriman. And from my archive he gave us one Voice And Power power to negotiate women, sport. And of course, the legendary Billie Jean King 51 years after she beat Bobby Riggs and founded the wta everyone, im Christiane Amanpour in london. On this day in 1949, Chinese Communist leaders proclaimed the Peoples Republic of china 75 years ago. It was one of the worlds poorest countries today. Its the worlds second largest economy, second only to his great competitor, the United States of america which could also rivals militarily. China. Now challenges Americas Role as the worlds only superpower. It is also of course the battle of Ideas Democracy versus authoritarianism of the chinese leader xi jing ping. While Americas Strength lies with global alliances, china has a lock on the continent of africa, while also quoting pariahs like north korea, russia, iran tensions over taiwan and trade. Keep ratcheting upwards. And yet the issue of china has had little play in the Election Campaigns of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris Nicholas Burns knows a thing or two about tricky diplomacy with a lengthy career as an american diplomat serving six president s, nine secretaries of state. He was us ambassador so to nato on 911. And now hes ambassador To Beijing, a role that hes compared to being envoy to moscow at the height of the cold war. And he joined me from washington ambassador Nicholas Burns. Welcome to the program. Christiane, thank you very, very much. I want a Temperature Check of china and the United States because there was balloon gate, there were all these things, you know diplomacy came to a Screeching Halt for a while. And now its back. The latest arrival in beijing for talks with jake sullivan, national Security Advisor as a describe is it high tension or is there a bit of give . Is there a bit of thor christian, we have a very competitive relationship between the United States and china. We disagree on our Security Rivalry in the indopacific on technology, on Human Rights, Trade And Investment its been so we have to negotiate lots of different very important differences between the countries. I think thats systemic. I think thats with us to stay for many years to come. We do think that weve been able to stabilize our relationships somewhat because of the flurry of meetings that weve had. And frankly, our ability it creates some Communications Channels at a very high level. President biden and Xi Jinping secretary tony blinken, Secretary Janet yellen, both ben in china in recent months and you refer to jake sullivan, our national Security Advisor he and i had a series of meetings with the chinese leadership with President Xi with the foreign minister Wong Yi with the senior pla officer, general zhang youxia. And i think that builds in some predictability and an ability to communicate when Theres Tension and when theres disagreement that we did not have before. So i would say we have a relatively more stable relationship with china, but it remains a difficult well and competitive relationship. What about taiwan them because the issue of a wall is pretty much considered likely one over taiwan at this at this point has the temperature there, cool. Do you think that that issue is everybody understands Each Other or not . I dont think its cool weve seen a higher level of chinese air and naval activity in and around the taiwan strait. Since Speaker Pelosis Visit and that was more than two years ago. And so were continuously cautioning the chinese leadership about making sure that they do not use force to try to resolve the Cross Strait differences. We think that china should commit itself to a peaceful resolution of that Dispute And Front and thankfully, were not alone in this. Youve seen a very assertive position of the government of japan. The government of the philippines, the government of the republic of china ive korea, excuse me and also the European Leadership and members of the European Parliaments and national parliaments traveling to this part of the world to make that Point China asserts the right to use force. We dont think thats just and we dont think thats smart. And so were trying to do is two things convince china to resolve the Cross Crossstrait differences peacefully. And thats been the american position. Christiane going back to Richard Nixons Trip here in 1972, and obviously provide for a stronger deterrent in taiwan thats our legal obligation under the taiwan Relations Act and were doing both things at once. But i think frankly, there needs to be international pressure on china for a peaceful resolution of dispute. But let me ask you about the sort of more i guess ideological Core Competition as well. Its also about democracy and an open system versus a closed and more authoritarian system. But what do you think . What do you hearing from your chinese interlocutors about about whats happening in the United States where political violence is a matter of fact right now, to attempt to assassinations, violent language in Part Oblique obviously the chinese and the russians. Just salivating at the idea of damage to american democracy. What are they saying well, weve warned the chinese leadership in various specific, specific conversations not to interfere with our national election or our state elections, or county in town elections in the United States, were watching carefully to make sure that that does not happen a second part of the answer, christiane is, i think the chinese, at least in terms of what they say publicly have been somewhat restrained about involving themselves in our election. I think they know that theres there is a bipartisan consensus. There is large Scale Democrat and republican agreement on the need for us to have a very tough minded, competitive policy with china, but also on the Engagement Side to make sure that were talking to the chinese its about climate change. John podesta was just over in beijing with me two weeks ago. Our climate negotiator, were trying to work on the Fentanyl Crisis Crisis here in the United States and getting some help from the chinese government in doing that, we obviously want to work on global health issues together. So this is a relationship thats to incredibly complicated on the one hand, we have high competition between the two governments. On the other hand, where the two largest economies in the world, we have to work together on issues like climate. And i think Thats Part and parcel of what were doing with we the chinese are intensely interested in what happens in America On November 5 but were warning them not to get involved and not to cross a line. And thats a very serious warning indeed, i just one question. Follow up on the Climate Cooperation that youre trying to get why would President Biden then slapped tariffs on some think like Electric Vehicles and Solar Panels from china. If he wants to also push along americas and global climate priorities. The reason the president did that is because we learned a big lesson during the pandemic. We dont want no country should want to be reliant on a single source of supply and we need hed to build up in the United States and in other countries of the west our own capacity on lithium batteries, on Solar Panels, and Electric Vehicles. And so china is trying to dump these products unfairly and illegally below the cost of production on the rest of the world. And were not going to let a chunk a second. China shock to envelop the united States Economy and society. We lost more than 1 Million jobs in the 1990s, the early part of this century. And its not going to happen again. I think were well within our rights to take the actions that we have really interesting ambassador Nicholas Burns thank you for joining us, chris john. Thanks. Always a pleasure to be with you you. Coming up later on the show, the power to build on the power to destroy 50 years since it was first published, i will speak and to Author Robert Carrow about his still influential book, the Power Broker also ahead. Now i feel a little bit silly even having to wear this the biggest threat is a slowdown and going to where you need to go because of taking photos and saying hi to people, El Salvadors transformation from Murder Capital to Tranquil Paradise Premieres Tomorrow it nine here on Cnn Test of time. Like a family car. The hartford has been ensuring experienced drivers for generations many who switched to the Aarp Auto Insurance program from the hartford saved an average of 577 but whats worth protecting the hartford is here to get your free quote, go to visit hartford auto. Com the bucs got your back hot, red its all us, thanks. Redhot sale event, save on everything including our usdacertified tender, fully mignon, and get a fervors free order. Now, at omaha steak. 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Dana said, youre still, you soon man, the crews to brief story. Ready, pg 13 the Power Broker came out in 1974, a rollicking, deeply researched story of Robert Moses, one of the most powerful, unelected officials in american history. He amassed a Fortune Building americas modern Toll System and using it to construct many of the highways, bridges, and parks around New York. Sometimes at great cost to the communities living there. So why so much Attention And Celebration for the book now . Well, its just turned 50 itself tons every year. And its a Pop Culture Phenomenon podcast, viral tiktok videos. The book examines power, its Use And Abuse race and inequality. Shakespearian hubris, it is all there. And the author robin carroll, has won a Pulitzer Prize for it that was in 1975. He tells me that hes amazed as anyone is at his books long legacy robert kara, Welcome Back to our program and oh my goodness, 50 years on the powerbroker more popular than ever. How do you account for that . I think people are getting people have always been interested and now theyre sort of worried and concern about the unelected power unchecked power. And and the fact that it might be coming for America Robert moses listen to nobody and he created a form of power where he didnt have to live with listen to anybody he could do it the way he wanted. And why did he have that power . Who gave him that power . Oh, nobody gave him the power . He created shows me the public authority, which builds bridges and tunnels and collected tolls in its modern form. So he was independent of any elected official and was never elected to anything himself. But he had the revenues revenues, every time you put a quarter in the slot in a bridge or a tunnel in New York city. You will basically paying it directly to Robert Moses, wow another thing he did, and maybe this is part of what youre telling me now. He moved i dont know, tens, Hundreds Of Thousands of people out of their residents in order to build this infrastructure, tell me about that. And again, how did he get away with d homing all these people were, you know what you just there. Asked. She is almost nobody knows. But its astonishing. I was trying to take Geller Lumber so conservative that he could but no argue with me of the number of people that he dispossessed through their homes for his expressways and parkway is his bridges and his parks and a very conservative number is 500,000 people, halfamillion people and nobody politically rebelled against that. Well, every so often because someone would rebel but the power was in Robert Moses his hand. Let me ask you about the process because its always really interesting. And as you know, because you are part of it, a documentary has been made of you and your long editor, the late Robert Gottlieb he apparently insisted do you remove let me count them. 350,000 words from your draft of the power broke how do you feel about that all these years later, what was missing i feel i feel safe you know, i wrote the book was 1 1,050,000 words Bob Gottlieb trying very hard our got the maximum number of words you could get it on a page and make it a readable. Nice payers. The maximum number of pages you can get an a book then because they didnt have as good a binding as they did now and that came out to 700 words so we had to cut. We really didnt have a choice of cutting 350,000 words some of those chapters that were caught i really thought were the best in my opinion, the best stuff i ever wrote so if you want to know what it was like, there was a sad time. So whats happened to them . Are they in some archived you have them . Well, i have huge boxes cut pages. I dont know whats in there and what is the label to look . Oh, my god, you still havent looked at them or somebody needs to look at them because theres another book to be written obviously ought to be published. I want to play what Lizie Gottlieb basically that these books are about very urgent things there about how Power Works In America and the effect of power on the powerless and things that we all really need to learn and bob, Carol Fields and i think my father agrees that unless the sentences are as compelling and riveting as possible No One will read the books and No One will care for them. As he says, everything is important, every single detail and theyre very opinionated and theyre very strong willed, and they each think theyre right. And so they really get into it in yen. Would you say your apiece with the amount Bob Gottlieb got you to excise from your drafts . No what you really think, you know. If you look at this exhibit thats on now there are excerpts from a chapter i thought it was really about as good as i could write a maybe and ive always felt bad that chapter is not in the book, but the fact was, we both realize it had to go. I didnt really want and have two volumes, but i was so desperate at some point i mentioned the possibility of two volumes. And Bob Gottlieb says i might get people interested in Robert Moses once ill never get them interested in Robert Moses twice finally robert carrow, how old are you at all . My goodness, how do you saw sorry, you as asking because how do you explain . What is the secret of your vigor . You are vigorous physically and mentally no explanation. I just i just happened to like riding well, we like reading what you write, so keep going. Robert, kara, thank you so much. Thank you amazing man amazing author coming up on the amanpour hour, the power of change. People used to be afraid to walk down the streets in El Salvadors capital. 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In El Salvador, a Power Struggle between the president and the gangs has transformed the Country Thousands of criminals have been put in prison and some constitutional rights like Due Process have been suspended under emergency measures. Now the Security Situation is so different that people are returning even after building new lives over decades in the United States as cnns David Culver saw for himself on, the u. S. Southern border. Weve seen the Desperation And Determination of folks trying to get into the u. S often fleeing the unimaginable. Some time you go to sleep you never know if youre going to wake up. Diego morales dreamed of a better life escaping the horrors of El Salvadors brutal Civil War or like United States, behaved for almost 30 years this in my country hey, iran, david, nice to me. Hes made houston, texas home, starting a business and a family here. But diego now noticing fewer salvadorans following his path. And i always say if, you know so people stay in over them less than a decade ago, El Salvador was labeled the Murder Capital of the world. Gangs who are essentially in charge. But in the past three to four years, this country has seen a radical transformation. Low goelz tell us that they finally feel safe and up to be outside which may explain the sharp drop in migrants from El Salvador attempting to enter the u. S cbp data shows a 36 decrease in salvadorans crossing the Southern Border from 2022 to last year, with numbers expected to fall even further this year. But the data only tells part of the story would meet Blanca Flores and victor bolanos. They fled El Salvador in 2003, leaving their three college sons behind from all the people you worked with planning to eventually bring them to colorado . At least that was the plan they were able to get their kids through Schooling And Everything through their work in the u. S and after 15 years, the couple lost their Asylum Claim and was forced to accept a socalled voluntary Departure Back to El Salvador its a lot of work returning just ahead of the countrys pivotal 2019 president ial elections fearful thing but as a 37yearold, Nayib Bukele won in 2022, declared a controversial State Of Emergency that is still in effect. Arresting with an 81,000 people and counting, hes consolidated power, tightened his grip of control and essentially eliminated any political Opposition Chin but i assume bukele, like a Concern Father better them up two years ago, the Bukele Administration introduced financial incentives for citizens looking to return to El Salvador. The government reports nearly 19,000 salvadorans have moved back under this program. And you think the economy will get better because security is a better thing. They may cant stop. We have our job Human Rights groups though, question will kill his tactics in cracking down on gangs alleging widespread abuse and claiming that many innocent people have been swept up in the mass arrests the government stands by its actions as does nearly everyone we meet here. You can imagine how afraid i was one of my sons were born we refuted or the Gang Member killed. And you think president bukele save them from that. Thats right. In some places, the Millennial Leader and his Social Media posts are seemingly revered and good for marketing, attracting locals folks visiting like this cant be the same country. Theres no way is this your family my aunt, jessica left as a child with her parents during the Civil War. This is her first time back. And now im like kinda sad that ive lost so many years and not have seen my family by 30 something years also seeing the potential here. We meet up with one of them, a familiar face. Hagar, how are you . What a place you have Diego Morales in town with his family, checking in on his boutique hotel, which opened a year ago on the land, his parents once worked, but could never afford to buy. Now, he is the owner, but he and they Cant Stay here alone. Everything is safe while some locals make it clear, their land is not for sale. The surging prices along the coast or too good for others to pass up. This used to be gang lookout, basically, they would have scoured to keep their eyes. Yeah. Post you oh, boy, here it over there but now its potentially the site of Luxury And Relaxation stolen different during a period of time, the noise that we would hear would be say gunfire. Gunfire, but now its Construction Noise new roads, luxury homes and resorts all coming soon. Diego is not the only one in his family who sees the possibilities here. You can see building the future here exactly his son jairo, born and raised in the u. S. And american now looking south for his salvadoran Dream David Culver reporting around El Salvador and coming up a story of sex, power and influence, how a behind the Scenes Kingmaker developed a talent for diplomacy in the 20th Century and fostered the Special Relationship with Abby Phillip weeknights at ten eastern On Cnn fast from he was comes gummi bites. And love back kid is hurting and theres nothing you can do about it thats the worst feeling in the world. I dont think anybody ever expects to hear that their child has cancer its always one of those things that happens to somebody else but definitely feels like your soul was sucked out of your body when they tell you that its your baby you would do anything to get them to the best place that they can be further treatment and i knew with Everything In My Soul that was st. Jude and that we had to get here join the battle to save lives during Childhood Cancer Awareness month by supporting st. 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But nearly three decades after her death, a new biography called kingmaker reveals an amazing tale of subterfuge seduction, and high society. Herrmann and would eventually become us ambassador to france. Author sogno panel, join me to discuss this remarkable woman and the key role she played enabling the Special Relationship between britain and america. Lets start a little bit at the beginning. She was a little Bit Sort of wanted to get out of that sort of stultifying life, right and wanted to get married. She didnt do very well in the debutant season. And she was pushed towards randolph churchill. Was very much her decision. She was the eldest daughter of a lord and endorse it quite rural. They remote house. What she wanted was fun and excitement and shes taken a very early interest in politics. Now at the beginning of the war, she met Randolph He asked nine women to marry him. He wanted to saira a son before he went to all nine had said no, probably for very good reason because he was an appalling Husband Or Bruton and a bully really and a philanderer. Anna philanderer, anna drunk, and pretty much anything else you can think of. But pamelas said yes for one very good reason. She saw it as an exit out of dorset into high society. And the center of power in london. And shes succeeded in finding that. And do you think she thought that it would lead to what you you obviously write about and that is this close relationship with with it with Winston Churchill and this very critical role in trying to get america in Britain Side and being kind of a Winston Churchill side throughout what she was and she was also his Secret Weapon. I think she set out right from the start that she was going to make herself indispensable to Winston Churchill some Way Hat to be we found to the americans into the war. And if not shorter, that gain their support in the form of planes or weapons, or even food and medicines. So he unleashed her as his secret Weapon Cut to the Secret Weapon was directed at, as you say, the head of americas lendlease program, everyone well, herrmann, who was dispatched to the uk, right by roosevelt. Well, she met him and i think its fair to say fireworks happened, but that was all deliberate. It was part of a strategic sex life. She had to seduce this guy. She was provided with a beautiful golden skin type dress. She was put next so him at a dinner at the Dorchester Hotel and then by the time they got to do desert, she was doing what people came to call her mating dance, which involved a lot of stroking of the forearm, laughing at his jokes. He was rather he was a tough guy but quite shy and insecure and this is gorgeous aristocrats soaking up every single word. It was a very, very bad Air Raid that night, they went down to his sweet and hotel, which was seen as relatively safe. And i think its fair to say it without going into too much detail than her very special Wall Work started that night and went on from there meanwhile, she was peddling that message fine, but also extracting information from them and parsing that back to churchill to try and establish what later became the Special Relationship you call your book though, king maker, for a reason well, thats right. I mean, her portrayal even now is totally unfair. So what ive just described wasnt done for fun. Are there sure. There were moments of fun it was a strategic campaign. She was only 20 22, 23 when she was doing this. She knew exactly what she was doing, the pressure on her was immense but she got the taste for power. She was beside churchill as he waged a World War eventually she we found that and this is where the kingmaker comes in. She found that in the state she may want american he died. She then married Avril Hammon that she had seduced all those years before he was on trying to democratic politics, just really, as a republicans would taking a very firm grip of the White House, her job was, how do we get the White House . Back for the democrats and you didnt talk to president clinton right about, about pamela. And i think we have little bit here of what he acknowledged that pamelas funeral today, i am here and no small measure . Because she was there she was one of the easiest choices i made for any appointments when i became president so hes talking about the appointment as ambassador to france . Yes, thats right. I mean, it helping clinton into the White House, which he has frequently acknowledging he as a reward, made her ambassador to france, where again, people expect his head so just in a social life, but my goodness, behind closed doors, she was Anything But Bosnia was her big test. She remembered what it was like from the war, what it was like to be in the blitz, she gave birth during an Air Raid. She knew the Horror And Terror of war in a way that these guys that she was working with didnt. They were too young or to remember all or theyd been born after the war. She brought a moral compass if you like to knows negotiations. And she also became super trusted by both President Chirac of france and clinton back in washington in a way thats really unusual. All ambassadors are trying to perform that role very, very few probably none on the fingers of one hand, ever quite achieve it in the way that she did during our conversation this week, personnel told me that it was really her mission to correct the record about powerful women still ahead the Battle Of The Sexes. A look back at the most watched Tennis Match in History Reaction to the birth, one or one was overwhelming. 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For the love of moving coventry direct the defining Insurance And Rafael romo at the Georgia State Capitol in atlanta. This is cnn one of the tennis worlds greatest trailblazers is once again making history Billie Jean King is said to become the first solo female athlete to receive the congressional gold medal. Its the highest civilian honor, and its for her lifetime of work advancing womens and Lgbtq Plus Equality in sports and society at large. And it comes as we mark 51 years his since Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs in the most watched Tennis Match in history. The Battle Of The Sexes changed the face of womens sports forever. And that same year, king founded the wta and fought for equal pay for women in tennis. Now, ive interviewed her many times through the years. So from my archive this week, we look back at some of her reflections on that when against rigs and the power of the wta, i remember shaking hands at the net afterwards and he said to me, i underestimated you never forget that because my dad used to tell my brother, Me And My Brother played major league baseball. He always told lets due respect, our opponent, and never, ever underestimate them, never so i just couldnt tell my dad. I said daddy, daddy. He said he underestimated me just exactly what you tell randy me never ever do and always respect your opponent, even if you dont like them. I want to ask you what you think would have happened had you lost, what would it be in the impact . I think it would have been huge. We just had title nine passed a year before the educational amendment, which i think would have gotten week weekend. There were so many things that we have not accomplished. A woman could not get a Credit Card on her own i thought im a little bit about if we lost, but i thought more about what we could do if we won and i knew that wed have a much bigger impact in which we did. I mean, i still have people coming up to me and the one the most important thing i think ive heard over the last 50 years is the impact that had on women and their selfconfidence and for the men, for the first time, many of the men thought about their daughters and all of a sudden they said, you know what, i do want my daughter to have equal opportunity with my son. And i think it really started the change the hearts and minds of people. It gave us one Voice And Power power to the gauche for equal pay. That was obviously for me personally at the top but we had to argue for other things we got very little money, but by 73 were starting to get Prize Money you know, i did very well because i was winning. That was kind of the top of my career. But a lot most people were not and we really wanted to Add Term as at lower, lower levels to give more and more women a chance to play. And make money and the three things why we had this association that any girl born in this world, if she were good enough, would have a place to compete number two, to be appreciated for our accomplishments not only our looks and number three, most importantly, to be able to make a living playing the sport that we loved and had a passion to play. And we want it for others. And what this did is provided a platform for every single professional woman tennis player, a platform for her to be a leader of be effective in her community wherever she lived, it could be a village it could be a town, it could be a country, it could be a continent. When we come back, power over the Aging Process, a brand new film out this weekend, the substance takes aim, but societys unattainable. Beauty standards. A conversation with the filmmaker next news for you . Its coming to cnn this fall pros and cons less pro hosted by Roy Wood Jr. Row with amber ruffin. Would michaelian black . Oh, okay. What are the cons . We could run at a news by then theres actually a lot of cons have i got News News for you tonight at nine on Cnn And Streaming next day on max check a chair. Do i told you dr. Kings is the best place to bet touchdowns. Best her Sound Dance all time. Probably dont even know about this, this oldschool where you are Old School but as dirty, hands, dirty, looking me a seem to doing oh, you all see, you know, you want this. He now, man, theyre eating hit you at this right here, get nasty on it i know that was going break. Get out respect. With draftkings, new customers turn Five Bucks in a 200 instantly and bonus Bets Crown is yours right now, Pet Dander in Sales Mold spores, pollen, and dirt are being sucked into your Air Ducts, get cleaner air in system efficiency. 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And will release another version of yourself what ensues is a gruesome Power Struggle between the two versions that takes aim at societies unattainable Beauty Standards. What its been causing seeing a stir ever since its premiere at the Cannes Film Festival earlier this year, to an unheard of 13 minutes standing ovation. And i spoke to Coralie Fascia about the pressure imposed on women and the violence they do to themselves. Shown through one of the films Captivating Scenes Emotionally Powerful Scene of the movie thats really related to the sales hatreds that we are led to develop she decides that she doesnt deserve to be seen in the outside world and i think that what happens, when we develop all those ideas around like Beauty Standards were building a jailed around us that kind of laka seen. I wanted to show the violence and the reality of it to hopefully help women, you know, break those jail because i think we need to go out. We need to step out of it and and try and really take place into the world. It is an extraordinary watch. It is body horror genre. And the film, the substance is out in Movie Theaters right now. Thats all we have time for this week. Dont forget. You can find all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn. Com podcast and on all other major platforms. Im Crushed Amanpour in london. Thank you for watching and ill see you again next week