Couple years ago when we were looking at the number of individuals who would meet the criteria for the release based on a terminal illness, we discovered that there were 200 inmates in the bureau of prisons. Once they were identified coming up to go further in making sure that for those individuals being considered, that they have the resources if they are given the opportunity and released under that program. 200 inmates agencywide with a population at times that was at 220,000 is a very small number. Senator we are talking about passionate release, early release, release of foreign nationals. Are you saying that the law or the regulation is written to restrictively and doesnt give you the latitude to utilize those programs more fully . Inspector general, i will be asking you the same question. Mr. Samuels we moved from apple to nonmedical. Even when we look at those cases , when you are looking at the criteria as well as being responsible for Public Safety for any of those individuals having the propensity to continue more criminal act to become a we have to take that into account. With the pretransfer program, i share the concerns that the Inspector General has raised. We identified through the audit a problem there. And at times provided a number of trainings and opportunities as our staffing and the inmate population under consideration for the program. We have seen an increase. However, when we submit to the application for consideration, there is another process that takes place with the Department Working with the various countries who have agreements under the treaty transfer program to make determinations on when those individuals are removed. Senator they would probably rather have u. S. Bear the cost of keeping those people in prison. Can you speak to why, from your perspective, why these programs have not been utilized more fully . Inspector general it is the way that programs have been structured they narrow restrictions in which they have been in use. 65 and older is where the threshold was set. The Inspector General increased the use of that program. If theres only two w o. And part, it is because of the 4000 plus inmates who are over eight c5 in the federal prison system. They have to meet criteria, both with regard to meeting the criteria and in the treaty transfer, the discretionary calls that have to be made. And perhaps it is risk aversion. Perhaps it is a feeling that, i somebody got a jail sentence appropriatel scale criteria . Mr. Horowitz requiring people to serve a long period of time and to demonstrate a lengthy period of service in the sentence. For inmates who were the least dangerous, presumably had low sentences, they couldnt get released because they hadnt served a long period of time. That seemed odd to us. Senator that is something should take a look at. Thank you. Senator ayotte director samuels, i want to ask you about a particular prison in my states that is important, especially fdi berlin. I wanted to ask about what the status is of staffing at that facility. It was staff that 290 and there are about 1200 incarcerated individuals there. Can you give me an update on levels and what the ultimate goal is for capacity there and staffing . Mr. Samuels thank you, senator. Right now with continued activation of the facility we are working very closely with the warden and thatstaff. We are ensuring come as we build a population, we are making sure that the inmatestaff ratio is where we are comfortable with the number of staff we have it the solidity. This has can at the facility. The applicant will is not where we would like it. But with recruitment efforts we have seen we have a vary good pool for hiring individuals to work at the facility. Senator ayotte this is an area of our state where people are always looking for more jobs. So to get people from the area that have strong backgrounds one of the issues has been a challenge is the 37yearold age restriction. As the bureau of prisons reexamined this . It is important that my constituents have an opportunity that live in the area to work there. Mr. Sanders our focus is to make sure that we are aggressively hiring from the local community as well as looking at veterans. We do have the ability for individuals who are applying who served, to grant waivers. We are in the process of doing that. Senator ayotte i appreciate you hiring people from the community. I know they are anxious and would like opportunities to work there. As well as our veterans. I appreciate you doing that. I think you will find a really they are a really dedicated the people in the area. So thank you for that. I wanted to follow up on the prior panel. There was quite a bit of discussion and criticism actually, on the Reentry Program from the bureau of prison and the commitment to where we are when someone has finished their time and adding forward successful programs and path to success. With our recidivism rate, it costs us a lot financially and also to the individual to the quality of life, that the present has an opportunity to set a new start. If there is not a good system in place for success, i wanted to get your comments on what you heard from the prior panel on this issue. Mr. Samuels i will say to everyone that reentry is one of the most important parts of our mission. Along with safety and security of our facility. The expectation, bureau wide, is for all staff, all the men and women who work in the bureau of prisons have an active role in the reentry system. We have more than 52,000 inmates who are participating in education. We have more than 12,000 individuals actively participating in our federal Prison Industries program, our largest Recidivism Program in the euro of prisons. Those who participate are to a 4 less likely to be involved in coming back to prison. And for Vocational Training, more than 10,000 inmates are participating. For those individuals who participate compared to those who are not, the recidivism reduction, 33 . You are all vary familiar with our is our residential programs as well. We are vary at a meant in ensuring these programs are we are very adamant in ensuring these programs are provided. It is safer to manage prisons when inmates are actively involved. We are definitely try to do our part to ensure that, for recidivism reduction in this nation, that we are taking the lead. For the number of individuals who come into the bureau of prisons, despite all of the challenges and the figures that youre hearing, the men and women in the bureau of prisons do an amazing job. When you look at the specific numbers relative to recidivism for the federal system, when individuals leave, we have 80 who do not return to the federal system. 80 . Now, we have that 20 who eventually end up in state and are local and we have always known that the overall recidivism for the federal system is 40 . 20 that return to the bureau and the 20 that go into the state system. And i would just also add that when you look at the bureau of prisons, and theres a study that has been done that for the state correctional system, 30plus, when you look at the overall average for recidivism its 67 . So i would still say that we have a lot of work to do. I mean, the goal is to have 100 individuals never returning, but as ive already stated for the record, the amount of growth that has occurred over that time period, we are very limited with our staffing. But it does not remove us from the commitment to our mission. If our staffing had kept pace with the growth over the years i do believe that i would be sitting here reporting that the 80 would have been much higher. Senator ayotte so i want to give the Inspector General an opportunity to comment and how you think were doing on reentry and any work that youve done on that. Mr. Horowitz were actually, senator, in the middle of the Reentry Programs and the use of reentry and the middle of fieldwork going to the working to look at the Education Programs because of the occurrence wed concerns wed heard. I think we will have something later in the year for you to look at. But it is a very significant concern. One of the issues i will pick up on what director sam ules said on staffing, thats a significant issue. Thats a significant security issue, reentry, because what you see is, first of all, by most accounts the federal Staffing Ratio of inmate to staff is worse than many of the state systems, what they have. And thats been exacerbated over time as the prison population has grown. Theres a cascading effect of that. The director and the staff have to pull people out of other programs to do correctional work that they cant be doing some of the other programs were all talking about. And so that i think is lost sometimes and something were certainly looking at right now is that cascading effect, if you understaff the prisons, the director has to first and foremost make sure the prisons are safe. Senator ayotte i hope when you issue this report that youll also give us guidance on what the models are, what are the best models for reentry. If we are going to invest more resources in this to create a better path for success for people so that they dont so we can reduce the recidivism rate i think your recommendations on the piece of whats working best, where we should invest resources would be really helpful. Thank you. Senator thank you, senator ayotte. While were quick on this subject, apparently only 10,000 out of the 210,000 population participating in that Reentry Program, could you quickly describe, both of you . It sounds like a very successful program. Why arent more people engaged in it . Senator johnson in total we reached 45,000 prisoners every year. Director samuels if its in references to the Vocational Training programs, we only have a limited number of opportunities that we could provide based on the number of inmates in our system. And that goes back to the crowding with increased crowding. You have waiting lists in the federal prison system no different than any other system. And the goal is to try to push as many of these inmates through and as we complete classes we bring more, you know individuals in for participation. Senator johnson Inspector General . Inspector general horowitz there are limited resources meaning a limited number of classes. Senator johnson senator booker. Senator booker director samuels, i appreciate you being here. Also, i appreciate the fact that you visited me in my office and take a lot of the issues and concerns. You represent an administration as a whole, as the president has, done some extraordinary steps around overall criminal justice reform. Im grateful that you are you a here today. It means a lot. Id also want to echo, you are a part of the Law Enforcement community and your officers put themselves at risk every single day to protect this nation. And im grateful for the sacrifices that your officers made. Im glad you mentioned, as we see on the federal and state level, we do have officers, not just losing their lives in the line of duty but also officers who are injured pretty severely or often in the line of duty as well. We as americans should recognize that and that sacrifice and commitment. I want to talk to you really quick and focus my questioning on solitary confinement, begin with solitary confinement of juveniles. Theres a bipartisan dialogue going on right now about putting real limitations on the use of solitary confinement. Now, we know this is an issue that faces thousands and thousands of children across america, but when it comes to the federal system this is actually a very small amount. Probably would surprise a lot of people we are talking about kids in a matter of dozens. This is in two populations really. Its children that are tried as adults that are housed in adult facilities, and then the contracts, if im correct, that you do with state facilities for juveniles as well. Do you think its feasible that, as being discussed in congress right now and ive been in a lot of the discussions in the senate that we just eliminate solitary confinement or severely limit it for children . Being very specific, for instance, placing a threehour time limit on juvenile solitary confinement and banning it really for punitive or administrative purposes, is that something you see as feasible and something you would be supportive of . Director samuels thank you, senator. I believe that for this issue and in the federal system, as you already mentioned, we contract out the service. We do not have any juveniles in an adult correctional facility. And the expectation that we have with the Service Providers for us is that at anytime theyre considering placing a juvenile in restrictive housing, they are required to notify us immediately. Even if that placement were to take place, theres a requirement also they have to monitor those individuals every 15 minutes. So in regards to your question with looking at the restrictions that could be considered, i would say that for our purposes regarding this that it would be something that is definitely something that should be considered and looked at as a practice. Senator booker so if congress were to act on legislation putting those severe limitations on the practice with limitations of just a matter of hours, thats something you would agree thats something that is feasible . Director samuels yes. Senator booker i appreciate that. Thats encouraging to the discussions going on right now. And frankly, its a small population but doing it on a federal level would send a signal to really resonate throughout our country and frankly would is already being done in some your dictions. In some jurisdictions. To adult solitary confinement, if if i may, this practice, as you know, has been harshly criticized. If you listened to the other panel, theres a lot of data from the medical community, specifically, and also Civil Rights Community and human rights communities. A may 2013, report, which i know youre also familiar from the g. A. O. , found that the federal bureau of prisons didnt know whether the use of solitary confinement had any impact on prison safety. Didnt know, necessarily, how it affected the individuals who endured the practice or how much, frankly, is costing taxpayers in general. Just this year a recent internal audit by the bureau of prisons noted inadequacyies in Mental Health care and reentry preparedness for people in solitary confinement. As was said in the previous panel, many people max out in solitary and then find themselves going right into the general i should say general population. Going right in the public. In many ways i think this report is a wakeup call of the seriousness of this issue. I first want to say, do you know right now how many people are in solitary confinement beyond 12 months or, say, 24 months or 36 months . Do you have that data . Director samuels senator, i can provide the data for you. Senator booker so we do track those folks who are saying often who are staying often for years in solitary . Director sam umes senator booker, id like to state for the bureau of prisons, we do not practice solitary confinement. In my oral testimony in my written testimony, our practice has always been when individuals are placed in restrictive housing we place them in a cell with another individual. To also include that our staff make periodic rounds to check on the individuals. And i also believe its important senator booker i need to be clear on that. Your testimony to me right now the b. O. P. Does not practice confinement of individuals singularly in a confined area . Director samuels youre correct. We only place an individual in a cell alone if we have good evidence to believe that the individual could cause harm to another individual and or if we have our medical or Mental Health staff given evaluation it that it would be a benefit to the individual to be placed in a cell alone. We do not under any circumstances nor have we ever had a practice of placing individuals in a cell alone. Senator booker ok. Thats astonishing to me. Id love to explore that further because all the evidence that i have said it is a practice at the federal level. So youre telling me there are not people that are being held for many, many months alone in solitary confinement, is that correct . Director samuels when you look at the bureau of prisons agencywide that is not a practice. We have three forms. We have our special Housing Units which are the majority of individuals throughout the country placed in restrictive housing. We have a program senator booker so in the s. H. U. They are not individually held . Director samuels no, sir. On average agencywide the amount of time individuals are spending on average, again, total, is little more than 65 days. Senator booker so the s. H. U. Is not solitary confinement, an individual not in the cell alone . Director samuels that is not the practice in the bureau of federal prisons. That has not been the practice. Senator booker i hope there will be another downed. Another round. Senator johnson senator mccaskill. Senator mccaskill how many have been convicted of a federal crime in the Violent Crime in the federal courts . Director samuels give me a second. Approximately 5 . Senator mccaskill ok. So we have 5 violent. 95 nonviolent. I think the thing that people need to understand which im not sure people do is that 5 that committed Violent Crimes, you dont even have primary jurisdiction, probably, on most of those crimes in the federal system. I dont think people realize that the federal Law Enforcement system was not designed or ever intended to address what most people think of as crime in this country. It was originally intended to be just for those kinds of crimes that because of the interstate nature of them they needed to be handled by the federal government. That would be Crimes Involving the drugs going from country to country. Then eventually we started nibbling away at that and started doing bank robbers and then we started doing interstate kidnappings. I know this because we handle a whole lot of murder cases when i was the prosecutor in kansas city and nothing was more irritating to me. We had the best homicide detectives i believe we had in the midwest in the Kansas City Police department. We had experienced prosecutors who handled murders every day and invariablely when there was a highprofile murder case,