Macarthur. Sunday night at nine with elections coming in october, we will show you a debate among the four National Party leaders in canada. Charles murray argues through the use of technology we can reigned in the power of the federal government. Susan talks about the city and people of nagasaki japan from the morning it was bombed on august 9 two today. We commemorate the 70 a anniversary of the bombing of nagasaki japan and the end of the war in pacific. Later we will visit the American University atomic bomb exhibit with the University Director of studies area our coverage continues with the 2000 documentary on the making of the atomic bomb. Later interviews with two bomb survivors. Get a complete schedule at cspan. Org. Leaders of four canadian Political Parties participated in a debate last night hosted by macleans magazine in toronto. The election for the house of commons is scheduled for october 19. This is about two hours. Mr. Wells the Longest Election Campaign in modern canadian history has begun. Good evening, im paul wells the Political Editor of macleans magazine. Im excited about this as you are. We have the leaders of four national Political Parties together in one room. We dont know whether that will happen again before you vote. I dont think they know. While they are here, lets make them work. The leaders are just injuredin t rudeau Elizabeth May tom mulcair, and steven harper. Tonights debate will cover four broad subjects at the top of voters minds the Economy Energy and the environment the state of canadas democracy in Foreign Policy and security. Each segment will begin with questions forrom me. Another leader will respond followed by an extended discussion among all the leaders. We will go through that process twice for each of our four subjects. We drew lots to determine the speaking order. Everybody here knows that order but nobody in any of the parties have seen or heard the questions i will be asking tonight. The parties have agreed that at any point i can intervene to direct conversation. Lets begin with our first topic, the economy. This is one subject on everybodys mind as the election approaches, the economy. We have dangerous economic wind flowing in canada. The countrys Economic Health is shaky. We are coming out of a mild recession. Oil prices have slumped, exports are weak. What ottawas proper role in the canada . Thats the context of our discussion. Mr. Wells as the luck of the drug would have it, the first question goes to the liberal leader, justin trudea. Mr. Trudeau good evening. Mr. Wells canadians are feeling anxious about the economy. Manufacturing is hurting. The price of oil is down. Your economic plan is built around the middle class tax break. Is that really enough of the response given the challenge that you say canada faces . Mr. Trudeau one of the things we seen, paul, is that for 10 years the approach that mr. Harper has taken has not worked for canadians. He has consistently chosen to give opportunities and tax breaks and benefits to the wealthiest canadians in the hopes that it would create growth but that is not happening and it goes to the heart of the question being posed in the selection is Stephen Harpers plan working for you . He took a decade of surpluses and turned it into eight consecutive deficits. We are the only country in the g7 in recession. He has no plan to get out of it. And we just found out wages are falling as well. You may not feel that, but i know you feel it at home. Us of the liberal party have put forward a plan to invest in the middle class, to support the middle class, to create growth through strengthening the middle class. We are the only party on the stage tonight that is committed to lowering taxes for the middle class by asking the wealthiest to pay more tax. There are a lot more elements to the plan, but we know that when you put money in the pockets of middleclass canadians, the economy grows. A lot ofmr. Wells a lot of economists have said that median incomes have been on the rise since 1990. Do you have a solution to a problem that isnt there . Mr. Trudeau not at all. People are worried about saving for their retirement or making traces the between their own opportunities and paying for their kids education. People are worried that for the first time we have a generation of young people who will do better than previous generations. We need solutions for that, and its not to continue to give benefits to the wealthiest. Its to bring a fresh approach, a new plan, integrate team to change the course. The only risk right now would be sticking with what has been a failed plan for 10 years. Mr. Wells thank you. As a look of the draw has it, the first to respond to stephen harper. Mr. Harper well, paul, let me correct a few facts. Over the past 10 years in a period of unprecedented economic instability, we have seen since the great Global Financial crisis canada has the strongest economic growth, the strongest job creation record, and the struggles to growth for the middle class among any of the major developed economies. What we face right now lets be clear over 80 of our economy is growing. Our exports are up 10 this year. Where we have weakness is obviously in the Energy Sector because of the fallen Energy Prices but our view is that we will have gross thiswth this year and we stick with the plan that is working. Low tax rather than go to a plan of high tax and high debt and deficit which is failing everywhere else. Mr. Wells the words you use to describe your opponents plan are sometimes fairly great. Youve compared it to greece, the tax increases introduced in alberta a disaster. To a few changes in tax rates actually have that kind of catastrophic effect . Mr. Harper we need to be clear on whats being proposed. The other parties are proposing, literally, tens of billions of dollars of additional spending permanent spending, to be financed by permanently higher tax rates in permanent deficit. The fact is, paul, we know where that leads. Countries in that position have not recovered from the recession and are stagnating. This country has had the best performance in developed economies. Mr. Wells thank you. We open it to all the leaders, now. Mr. Mulcair i know that canadians were card to make ends meet in to take care of their families its how i was raised. Mr. Harper has launched 400,000 wellpaid manufacturing jobs, 200,000 more unemployed today than in 2008. Mr. Harpers plan simply isnt working we know that. Incomes are flatlining, Household Debt is skyrocketing. We had a plan to invest in the middle class and to create new jobs. We want to invest in infrastructure we want to give a break to small corporations. Mr. Harper and mr. Trudeau agree that tens of billions of dollars for the wealthiest is the way to go. We disagree and we want to create 1 million a day quality child spaces. Thats not just good for families, thats good for the economy. Mr. Mulcair we were the two who were there during the last debate and i recall clearly that mr. Harper was still talking about if theres going to be a recession we would be in one already. I dont really think hes got a good track record on spotting when this country is in a recession. We are in a recession now. Its the wrong time for austerity measures. We need to build up canadas economy through investment. Right now there is no investment going on and there hasnt been two or three years. Not from the private sector sitting on 630 billion of debt money. We need to make sure this economy doesnt stutter to a halt and if we stay with the risky plan thats where we are headed. Mr. Harper lets be clear what the record is we have 1. 3 million new jobs created since the crisis, the best record by far in the g7. That is why incomes are rising across the board, thats why we have manufacturing in other sectors outside of energy that are now expanding because we are able, because we have a balanced budget and are able to make investments in infrastructure and health care. Now is not the time to throw us back into deficit and to spend tens of billions of dollars we dont have. Mr. Mulcair the reality is that canadians across this country know that times are tough. The fact is that you have become disconnected from the reality people are facing. Your plan is a working and we know that, and the risk would be sticking with your plan. Mr. Mulcair is good in his criticisms that is not necessarily good at answering his own questions. Chloe has seen is that hes put forward plans for 15 minimum wage. Hes talking about across the country. What is the cases hes misleading canadians getting canadians to work in Big Box Stores in behind checkout counters and in shops. , because his minimum wage false hope. It will help less than 1 of canadians who earn minimum wage that advertising is simply irresponsible. Mr. Mulcair under our plan to introduce a 15 an hour minimum wage, over 100,000 canadians will get a raise. Under mr. Trudeaus plan, not a single. Mr. Trudeau 350,000 kids mr. Harper wellpaid manufacturing jobs lost during his mandate. The jobs that are being created are mostly parttime, precarious jobs. One of the leading bank saying that the quality is the worst of the generation. Mr. Trudeau let me give you the facts from statistics canada. 90 of the 1. 3 million new jobs created our fulltime. 80 of private sector. 2 3 are in high wage industries. Thats why incomes have been growing in this country when they have not been in other countries. I will tell you what wont grow our economies the plans these guys are pro jecting. Another thousand dollars this areese ar enot e not mr. Wells mr. Harper, you chose to raise the age of retirement, taking tens of thousands of dollars out of the pockets of most vulnerable seniors. You have categorically refused to engage with pension security. Canadians know that you let them down because you chose to continue to give benefits and tax breaks to the wealthiest canadians. Canadians need help from their government. That is why we are focused on strengthening the middle class with the more generous child benefit that will lift 315 thousand kids out of poverty and stop sending government checks to millionaires, which is what you want to do. Mr. Harper let me be clear what weve done for seniors tyrant age will not go up for over 10 years. We have brought in the largest increase of the guaranteed income supplement for poor income seniors in 25 years. We brought in income for pensioners. Mr. Trudeau mr. Harper that is simply not true. Paul mr. Harper he has been putting that out and misleading attack ads and none of the other parties have ever talked about touching income mr. Harper you have promised to take it away from families who have leftss generous income splitting there is no reason ms. May with all due respect mr. Prime minister, you are cherry picking your data. Net new jobs is irrelevant compared to other g7 nations unless you correct for population growth. Comparing us to germany where they dont have new people, compared to other economies in the g7, we are doing very poorly. We are in a recession under your watch for the second time. Mr. Harper ms. May, i think the fact that we are able to bring in immigrants as part of our economic action plan. Investing in infrastructure and innovation to drive it. Thats why we have mr. Mulcair wes. May mr. Mulcair what he fails to mention is that he has run up 150 billion in the last 10 years. Frankly, last week as we headed into the campaign, he spent over 1 billion. Honestly, mr. Harper, we really cant afford another four years. Mr. Harper we have a budget that is balanced when other countries dont. Mr. Wells well that wraps up the first round of questions on the economy. We are only half done on the subject. The next question goes to Elizabeth May. Ms. May the greens policies call for a transformation of the canadian economy. That is a longterm project in canada is facing trouble right now. What can the federal government do now, this year, to reanimate the economy . Ms. May excellent question. We also have to keep in contact that oil makes up 2 of our gdp. The Prime Minister is right we are seeing other sectors begin to rebound. Our dollar shouldnt keep declining. But we cant just sit back and think that the current, stagnant economy will fix itself. We need investment from the public sector, to invest in a Climate Action plan. We need an army of carpenters, electricians contractors going out to plug leaky buildings. 30 of Carbon Pollution comes from the energy we waste and the money we waste heating the outdoors in the winter and cooling in the summer. We also need to invest in municipal infrastructure. Infrastructure deficit is 123 billion and we need to get at it. Mr. Wells can you recruit your army of carpenters and budget balance . Ms. May in the scheme of things its not very important. In a 2 trillion economy we are not going to see a balanced budget this year. The Parliamentary Budget Office just put out its new figures. I wouldnt condemn them. In my prebudget advice, i said this fixation on balancing the budget is being driven by the political imperative that the conservatives created by saying in the last election that we will give you all these goodies once we balance the budget. This year, they monkeyed. With thethey wanted to book the sale of the general voters shares in the next fiscal year. We sold 73 million shares and general motors. Was a good policy choice . I dont know. But fiddling with the books and the price of oil keeps dropping. I dont condemn them for that it is far more serious that 150 billion of federal debt has been accumulated. Mr. Wells thank you, ms. May. The first leader to respond is tom mulcair. Mr. Mulcair i have a concrete plan to kickstart the economy. We will invest in infrastructure. We will ask our municipalities to assume 60 of the cost. Thats not going to work. We will reduce the business taxes because they are responsible for creating 80 of the new jobs. We will put our effort there instead of giving tens of billions of dollars of tax cuts to our largest corporations. We Will Champion manufacturing and innovation, including Green Energy Technologies which will represent a 5 trillion investment around the world. Mr. Harper doesnt believe in a positive role for government in that, and we will help the middle class because it is good for families and good for the economy. Quality childcare spaces across canada. Mr. Harper the challenge we are facing now in our economy is about creating growth. One of the things that is so concerning about mr. Mulcairs Corporate Tax hike is that it it is a time in a recession when we need more growth, more investment. His plan to hike Corporate Taxes will be pandering to the people who like to hate corporations. We need that growth, we need job creation. But the money does have to come from somewhere if we are going to strengthen the middle class. Thats why i cant quite understand why mr. Mulcair has ruled out doing that we are doing which is asking the wealthiest 1 to pay more tax so we can give a big tax break to the middle class. Mr. Mulcair the real question is after those tens of billions of tax cuts for the richest corporations, where are the jobs . On the question of personal income tax increases, we are firmly opposed to them. Look at New Brunswick. They will have a tax rate of 58. 7 . They dont have a medical faculty how was New Brunswick going to be able to attract and retain top Level Medical doctors when they are going to be told our tax rate is close to 60 . We think that canadians are paying their fair share. Large corporations are not and they ms. May absolutely right when those Corporate Taxes were cut these corporations were the job creators. They sat on that money it was dead money. 630 billion in cash an astonishing 32 of canadas gdp is sitting stagnant. It is absolutely appropriate to raise the Corporate Tax rate to where was in 2009. It would still be very competitive, and we should do it as quickly as possible so we have money to invest in getting the economy moving. Mr. Harper yes, we have created the lowest tax environment for Business Investment across the g7 thats one of the reasons we have the strongest employment growth in the g7. We cut taxes not just for big business but for small business, and it was voted against every single time. The reality is not only did these tax cuts help create jobs, but our tax revenues actually went up from the business sector. We have done the same thing for people we cut taxes across the board, with the vast bulk for middle and lower income canadians. What the other guys want to do is impose both on workers and on employers big hikes to payroll taxes, ei taxes, those things would kill jobs and they would hurt ordinary people. Mr. Mulcair mr. Harper is once again eschewing responsibility. He has had six excessive deficits. Wages are shrinking. He continues to try and tell people that we need to stay the course, the people at home know that. They know that this economy is now working for them. We need a fresh approach that understands the way to create growth and the canadian economy is to strengthen the middle class and make sure that people have jobs in confidence and the capacity to spend and be sure about the future. Mr. Harper has continued to give tax breaks to the wealthiest, and that is not actually stimulated that has not stimulated our economy and that is why canada is growing less fair. Canadians right across the country are looking for a change the better approach and a better plan for the economy. Thats exactly what the liberal party mr. Harper we have not only a balanced budget, we have the lowest of debt levels in the g7 by a country mile. We have by far the best fiscal situation Going Forward mr. Trudeau a surplus mr. Harper in almost every other country they are rising, and they are rising in significant part because of the tax breaks these given to low income canadians that they have consistently voted against. Ms. Ma