Vermont is talking about the reaction of students to author Charles Murray appearing on campus. Professor stan Charles Murray were physically attacked after the attack bitterly attacked after the speech. Physically attacked after the speech. Prof. Stanger what happened to me . The story has been retold many times. Invited Charles Murray, rather controversial figure, libertarian scholar, to campus. He wasause they knew controversial, they invited me to ask three or four questions. This was back in march . Prof. Stanger the event was on march 2 and there was a runup to the event were tensions rose and rose that it was ripped whipped into a frenzy. Some students organized a shutdown of the speech that was successful. We went to a whipped remote loco simulcast the event. That is where you got the incident where i was injured outside the lecture hall. Middle bury college is where . Prof. Stanger middle bury college is in the Green Mountains of vermont, the champlain valley. In some sense, you can explain the reaction because it is almost a bubble within a bubble. Every mobile arts campus is something of a bubble because every liberal arts campus is something of a bubble. The context is important to understand what transpired. How many students . 50, sotanger 20 to fairly small. I found the number 63,000 online but said that is what tuition and room and board cost for a year. Prof. Stanger we make a real effort to try and make the experience available to as many capable young people as possible. There are significant numbers of students at middle bury on full financial aid, but an enormous amount paid that number. With did you get your education . Prof. Stanger and that my education in two places. One was a Small Liberal Arts College outside of chicago. I went there for three years and was a math major. I ran out of math classes to take my senior year. Requirement that made me take electives and other topics. And then i transferred. Your city is what . Prof. Stanger fort wayne. Did you get a masters and then a phd . Prof. Stanger i am a living taking some time to figure out exactly what interests you and why. I did an undergraduate degree in mathematics and science. Then i did economics. Various studies at harvard university, followed by a phd in Political Science at harvard. This trajectory these questions that really have answers about mathematics, to unanswerable questions which come from humanities. I embraced both of those in my thinking and in my teaching. How long have you been at Middlebury College . Went directly i after graduate school, 25 years. There you at middlebury semester . Prof. Stanger no, not the issue because i am on sabbatical. I am a resident at the numeric foundation. What does that do . Prof. Stanger it is a think tank in washington that will enable me to finish my book provides a great environment for me to do that. When you are at middlebury, would you teach . Prof. Stanger im Training International relations, but i have an interest in a variety of fields. American foreignpolicy, the Political Development of western europe. A new course called the politics of virtual realities. I am leaving some things out, but that covers the main courses. What is your view of your relationship with students for these 25 years . Prof. Stanger i love my students. And i think they love me back. Broker. Ing as an honest Student Groups asked me to interview Charles Murray, but then two weeks later, interviewed Edward Snowden. Im equal opportunity. Yeah, i have been very happy at middlebury because i do teaching, research, and writing. But with the teaching, i am absolutely sure at the end of the day that i have made a difference in the world because there is nothing like opening up someones mind. That is what teaching is all about. Did the students protest Edward Snowden at all . Prof. Stanger no. Why is that, you think . Prof. Stanger it is pretty straightforward. Most College Campuses are leaning left. And then those terms left and right dont mean anything today, but they are voting democratic. Republican scholar is controversial to them. Which is unfortunate because the Republican Party is the other major party and the united what it is. That is is very important, even though my students know i am a democrat, it is all the more important to engage with someone like Charles Murray because it shows that i agree with free and fair speech. Ethnicoked up the population in vermont and found that there are 2. 5 African Americans in the state and in the city of middle bury in the city and in the city middlebury. What does that do for the topic you are discussing . Prof. Stanger fairmont is one of the whitest vermont is one of the whitest states in the union. And middlebury is bringing in students from a vast array of different backgrounds, students of color. They come to vermont and they feel out of place. An institution has to try to make them feel like this is their institution, too. That is the heart of what is going on here. It is really easy to paint it as a picture of conservatives versus students of color, but really what is taking place is wheree a situation American Values are at stake. And they dont belong to a particular party, or a particular identity group. They belong to all americans. And i think that is at the heart of this issue we are discussing. But i would not want to downplay was expressedat through those protests and through the shutdown because emotions are real and need to be validated, but the most important part is ok, you feel that way, but what do we need to do about it so that it is different . How can we move this forward and make it a better place for you . From my perspective, it is not about shutting down speech, or banning certain speakers from campus. It is about talking together about how we make the environment a place where everybody belongs. How often have you met someone who teaches at middlebury who is conservative . Prof. Stanger that is you know, it is not that many. Have you ever met anybody . Prof. Stanger oh, of course. And they are some of my great friends because they are so interesting to talk to. I myself at middlebury benefited normas benefited enormously from talking to people there. There were professors you could disagree profoundly, but that interaction was so important for my own personal development that to be available to other people. Charles murray talked about the bell curve. I want to run this. Dick and i heard about this and it was one of the cases where he said, yeah, that is a wonderful title. What does it mean. Bell. Looks like a it is a phenomenon that you see in all kinds of things in nature , whether it is tight, weight, or iq. You get most people in the middle and a few people on each end, and the book is about the people on each end. How much did you not about this when he was slated to come to middlebury . Prof. Stanger i know about the whole bell curve controversy. Symposium that abouther critics write the book, and i used it in a first year seminar on first constitutional democracy. Provoked students and a fan made them angry. But then, i said, where does it say that . And then they realized they liked the bottom line of the argument, but they needed to focus on what chain in that logical reasoning, or set of assumptions that is problematic for them . That is an incredibly useful exercise. So you take that kind of initial shock, if you will, and channel it into reason discussion, and i think everybody learned something. Before young about came today, or about the incident back in march, i saw some reference to the Southern Poverty Law Center and a description of Charles Murray, and one of the reasons why the students reacted the way they did. We got on their website, and i want to read you the beginning of what they say. Charles murray, a fellow at the American Enterprise institute has become one of the most influential social scientist in america, using racist pseudoscience and misleading statistics to argue that social inequality is caused by the genetic inferiority of the black and latino communities, women, and the poor. ,nd he goes on to say about him according to murray, disadvantaged groups are disadvantaged because on average, they cannot compete with white men, who are intellectually, psychologically, and morally superior. The totales elimination of the welfare state, affirmative action, and the department of education are green, they cannot overcome the inmate efficiencies. My question to you is, is that accurately per train Charles Murray . Portrayingaccurately Charles Murray. Prof. Stanger absolutely not. The frightening thing about that website is that in the runup to his appearance on campus, you had faculty and students alike taking what you read to me, and said, this bed cannot speak your, even though you cant substantiate some of those assertions. If you go and look at those quotes in context, he is often saying the opposite of what they are saying he is saying. So, it was a terrible situation that i think led to what happened, that people did not think for themselves, didnt read for themselves in the didnt just come in here what he before drawingt conclusions about his character and past work, but it was like something you could not control because people just kept reading that website and send that was all they had to know. We had faculty at Middlebury College who had openly admitted they had never rituals murray, but because of the website, this is all you needed to know to know that you could be a righteous human being. I wonder and 25 seconds of the footage at middlebury protests so people can get a sense of what it was like. Before we do though, where was this room . How big of a room wasnt . How big of a room was it . Prof. Stanger i think it could fit 300. It is the same place two weeks later in which i interviewed Edward Snowden. And the format of the evening, how did that come about . Prof. Stanger it was restricted to students only, so you have to have a middlebury id to be admitted into the lecture hall. ,here were outside agitators but they were not inside the lecture hall. So what you are seeing inside the lecture hall is all middlebury students. Lets just look at this and get a feel for it. [chanting] away rles murray, go murphy, go away charles murphy, go away away,rles murray, go racist, sexist, antigay. Is any of that true . And didnt his daughter go to middlebury . Prof. Stanger his daughter went to middlebury, and i would not use any of those terms to describe that man. Weber the students doing that . Why were the students doing that . Prof. Stanger it was a tragedy. There were students who wanted to shut the speech down, and there were allies wanted to be supportive. I know student after student who went there who did things he were planning to do precisely because of that small minority was so outraged, and so angry that they felt that to be a good human being, you had to do the same thing. What are they angry about . Prof. Stanger about the gross inequality in the united states, about the existence of unequal treatment in the justice system, and about the election of donald trump, which none of those students wanted. We have real problems in this country that need to be addressed. They were legitimate in being concerned, but the tragedy to me is that the strategy they pursued brought about the very opposite of what they hoped to accomplish. Charles murray is at the American Enterprise institute. This was the American Enterprise institutes Student Group . Prof. Stanger it was a club like any other club. Was he pay to go to middlebury . Prof. Stanger no, nobody paid him anything. I am not part of the club, i dont know, but my understanding is by the way, did you have to pay snowden . Prof. Stanger he was paid a large amount of money. Who wouldve paid him . Prof. Stanger the middlebury activities board. We have video of you after this erupted. You moved out of that room. How long to the demonstration go on . Prof. Stanger it just accelerated from their precisely because the speech was not shut down. It just enraged that small group of people who were determined to shut it down. So there were fire alarms going off, people screaming obscenities through the window. I dont know what clip youre going to show. It is used sitting down with Charles Murray. Prof. Stanger i have not watched it because it is so unsettling to me. They used these directional microphones. So what you are hearing about what we are hearing on the tape. It is enhanced so you can hit a conversation, but it was absolutely terrifying to continue. How far ahead of this that you knew something was going to happen . Prof. Stanger i didnt think anything was going to happen. Before i walked out the door when we were confronted with the crowd that injured me, i said, i left my computer in the car, and i will go separately and left and i will go separately and meet you at the dinner. Had you met Charles Murray before . Prof. Stanger no, but i knew of him and knew that he was some of the Republican Party takes very seriously. It was precisely the person i want my students to engage in. Back you moved to this other room. Was that set up in advance . Prof. Stanger yes. Television cameras in their . Prof. Stanger yes, yes. That was planned better be. B. And how far away was the rep. Meng auditorium . Prof. Stanger it was in the basement of the building. I wish it was further away. This again was only 30 seconds. Ofit is a place with a lot just ato 1960 which is few years later. I told them to put people i told people to put them i told people to put on the fire alarms. Hold on just a second and they will turn those off. Son was attending prof. Stanger that is pretty funny. Anyway, go back to that setting. How long did you than tart talk to Charles Murray . Prof. Stanger i think it was roughly 30 or 45 minutes. We took questions from our students on twitter after the q a, which was nice. Any of the students in the room stay with this hope process . Prof. Stanger yes. On the one hand there is a coalition of students who are united and one to challenge Charles Murray but in a variety of ways. Some want to shut them down and some students to participate in the broken anchor restatement, who asked questions on twitter, so they stayed with it. They wanted to engage him. So the main message i would want to give to your audience is there is a variety of views at middlebury. It is not the monolithic, extremists place. It was just a small part of the population was amplified and a variety of ways. In is variety of ways. Did this start with the students are with one of your fellow professors, or both . Prof. Stanger the shutdown . The whole idea of trying to shut it down . Prof. Stanger there were all of these meetings before hand that my colleagues attended them or they were discussing resistance. The interesting thing is that all of the students who organized the resistance were used to being unanimously applauded by the faculty. For example, with the executive order against immigration, some of the same students involved in the protest against Charles Murray were involved in that resistance, and they have the whole faculty behind them. I was there with my constitution , and waving my american flag. And everybody supported them. And what was so disappointed them with this is that they were taking it to the next level by shutting it down. And everything fractured. And they were condemned by a large number of people. And neighbor expected to be praised and they were expected to be praised. That is part of the problem. At the end of your discussion with Charles Murray, you left that room and went where and what happened . Prof. Stanger they took us to this, the fact of the matter is, i dont really remember much of it. I couldnt even tell you what door we went out of. Out of the taken hall and constructed out of the hole and confronted with a mob of angry people. Their target was Charles Murray. And i was a little bit behind him. And it kind of intensified. It looked like he was about to fall to the ground. And at the time, he was a 74yearold man. And i did what any decent person would do, i grabbed him by the arm to make sure he didnt fall. And i dont know how many, but i was really fearful of being separated and being left behind. So i took his arm, and then it all turned on me. Somebody pulled my hair. Somebody body slammed me from another direction. Then we finally made it to the car and this was a horrific getaway seen were students were climbing. Windows, banging trying to prevent the car from moving forward. Poor bill is in the driver seat. Devised thene who radio free middlebury alternative plan, if you will. He was taking directions from Public Safety on how to go. It was moved forward, retreat, move forward, retreat. I was on the passenger side, screaming, stop, you are going to hit someone the car was stopping and starting, stopping and starting. And that is what exacerbated my injuries. How badly were you injured . Prof. Stanger i did not think i was badly injured at all, but it was worse than i thought. You had a collar on for a while. Prof. Stanger first i realized something was wrong with my neck. Then i was taken to the hospital. On days later, i was driving the wrong street and i could not find something that i already knew where it was, then i realized, you know, i needed to go back to the hospital. After you were out of the hospital and after things quieted down, what did you do about all this . Prof. Stanger it was awful. Have you ever had a concussion . No. Prof. Stanger for all of those people who have had concussions, they know what it is like. Your brain just gets scrambled. Your brain is like a computer, and you can only you just need to k