Was the suicide room, and when i mentioned that to the publisher she said, that is just a terrific title, and then she said, are you trying to put us out of business . And i said, id read that book, and she said, thats really not the right title for this book, and we sat and batted it around and there is something about this phrase. I was worried because it would it would come across as judgmental in some way or people would see it as almost bitterly ironic, and that wasnt the intention. Its a much simpler meaning which comes down to and this is what i got comfortable with finally. If you read the book and if you get to know these people inside the book and hear their stories, youll have a better sense. If you say this ubiquitous phrase, thank you for your service youll have a much clearer idea of who we are thanking and what youre thanking them for. And so that seemed to be a good title at that point. Brian how many of the people youre writing about in this book were in the first book about iraq, the good soldiers . Mr. Finkel well, one was named and the and the others were kind of circlearoundtheedges and not named but these are all people i had gotten to know during the reporting of the first book which was in baghdad during the surge, be it this was an Army Infantry battalion, if i can fill it in really quickly . These guys went into the part of the war called the surge. They were there for 15 months you know, in a lousy neighborhood in east baghdad, and i was with them to write the first book, not about me, but to live with them to write about them, and got to know them all. I was with them when bad things happened and stayed in touch, and they became the second people the people of the new book. Brian where was their base . Mr. Finkel fort riley, kansas. So i mean, think of the moment . This is i know it seems like history at this point. Well, i guess it is history but the war had been through several versions at that point, and you know, the common perception was the thing was all but lost, and it was edging up to what ive described as the tragic moment tragic moment of the war. And into that moment when this Army Infantry battalion, 800 guys, most deploying for the first time, most young and full of a young mans invincibility, and off they went, and then they had a tough time. Brian what was the average age . Mr. Finkel 19, 20. Most like i said, most hadnt been out of the country before much less deployed into a war before, and they were remarkable because if they werent filled with the perfect version of what we might describe as patriotism, they certainly had a sense of Large Mission in mind. They were going to win the thing. And, you know, what happened is what happens in war. The war is bigger than anything and by the time they came home and they had lost guys and they had had physical injuries and their psychological wounds were beginning to cement in to what they had turned into now, of course they were changed, and now theyve got to deal with it for a long, long, time. Brian how did you select the battalion that you or the was it a company or a battalion that you mr. Finkel a battalion. Oh, if you know, now i know the difference. When i started this thing, im not from a military family so i didnt really know a brigade from a battalion from a company. They were on the chart. These were the guys going into it. And the washington post, where ive been a reporter and editor for 23 years had me go report a story on this next group going into this new thing. And while i was reporting the post story, the Battalion Commander, just said you know, you might want to visit us at some point during our deployment and see how were doing and maybe who knows do another story at the end to see whats happened to us. And out of that came an idea that actually what i should do is take a leave from the post, go live with these guys and write a book about not about the iraq war because there been so many books about the war at that point not a policy book but use the war really to write a more intimate story about, in such a moment, what happens to a young man. So thats what i did. Brian you have a photo thats used on the cover of this book. Ive seen it before. Mr. Finkel yeah. Brian where did it come from . Mr. Finkel yes. Its a damon winters photo for the new york times. And after we had selected the title and we were looking around for an image to go with this, my wife recalled this image and as soon as she showed it to me on my computer, it just knocked me out. I send it up to the publisher, Sarah Crichton books, and she was crazy about it and i mean, i just look at this photograph all the time and sometimes i look at it in terms of how much the same these guys look. Then you can look closer and see how different they look. Sometimes i look at it and think of where i was sitting on that kind of plane when i was leaving the war after my time on the ground with them. Sometimes i look at that photograph and it just seems to be like, forgive me for the image, but rows of stones in arlington. Brian how long do they have to sit in that position and do they have their backpacks on . Mr. Finkel yes. You know, well, most of their gear is bundled up at the back on these palates, they are big sacks and everything but you know, youre all, your full kit. Youre wearing all your body armor, all of your eyeprobe, everything youre supposed to wear in war youre wearing on that plane as you exit it for the final time. Brian what do you see . Mr. Finkel well, it, i see i see six years of what this story has felt like. I mean, ive been pursuing this thing since 2007, and ive gotten to know these guys and ive gotten to know those planes and those positions, and, again, the transition from invincibility to a flatout weariness and recognition of so this is how it turned out. Brian whats the difference between the good soldiers, which was published in 2009, and this new book, thank you for your service . Mr. Finkel the new book is volume two. What happened is these guys came home. The book the good soldiers came out, i thought that was it. I had done my job as a journalist. I was proud of the book. I thought i got it right. I paid attention to their corner, not the policy, the big policy stuff, but their corner of the war, and id told their story well and i thought i was done but they began getting in touch with me by email, by phone call and say that, you know, things werent going so hot. They are not feeling quite right, not sleeping well. Some guys talked of anxiousness, depression. There were a couple of suicide and attempts, and i had read widely enough about the effects of war and some of this is common sense that i thought i had done half the story and lets get busy and do the second lets get this to the second book. Then it is their families and trying to adjust to life after the war. You dont have to read it to know why i am asking this question, but you quote specifically throughout this entire book what people are saying soldiers, wives, and all that. Were you present for all of it . Yes. Almost all of them. The style of journalism i do is, i guess you call it immersion journalism and it does not depend so much on an interview after the fact to find out what happened. It depends on being present and being present enough so the interview fades into the type of reporting when you are just there. You dont have to ask questions. You dont want to ask questions. You just want to see what is happening in front of you. Do they all have to say in advance or sign anything that anything they said, you could use . At this point in the evolution of journalism we used to get the benefit of the doubt when i started this kind of thing. Not so much anymore. I sit down with people. I explain what i want to do, what my style of reporting is. I might give them a couple of samples of previous works so they can make some informed decision about whether they want to be involved. If they say yes, off we go. Video from the website that you voiced over. Was this back in 2007 . Yes, it was when this 216 Infantry Battalion it was one of , the convoys. This is what they did. This is what the war was. They were in convoys going around this rather vicious neighborhood, trying to get to know the populace. That was the main idea of this counterinsurgency strategy. Basically, what they were doing was driving around waiting to get blown up. At night, they would search for bad guys. 6 mean . Does 21 it is the designation for the industry Infantry Battalion. They all have numbers and identifiers. It is all part of the first infantry division. Then you just go down the hill from there with more and more numbers until you can identify the unit. Here is the video. [video clip] tourniquetsrry bandages, ammunition and , grenades. All of them carry an assault rifle. Some have good luck charms. They go with one foot in front of the other so with a roadside bomb goes off, they lose one foot instead of two. Everyday, they get in the humvee and off they go. One day, the trip was from end of the base to the other. It increased the chances of finding a bomb before it went off. Almost there the first one turns , right off the main road. You can see it in the distance right now. There it goes. And then [end video clip] this might be a naive question, but why did we do that . Knowing that these humvees would be blown up . They were trying to get from here to there to carry out their corner of the war. Along the way, in this part of baghdad forgive me, i have not seen that video in a while in that part of baghdad, the shiite area, the weapon of choice was an improvised explosive device, efp. Explosively formed penetrator. Can i take a second to describe it . Sure. To be simple about it, it is known as a shaped charge. It is a tube filled with explosives. Attached to one end, typically, was some kind of milled copper disk perhaps the size of a dinner plate. Coming out the other end was a wire going to some guy in the shadows who was waiting to hit the trigger when a convoy of soldiers reached a certain to aiming point. In other words, if there was a broken light pole in the distance and when the convoy hit that, boom. There it goes. What happens with these things the copper plate is propelled , forward at such a high velocity, it becomes semimolten. If you could see it, it has been described as tadpoleshaped. It burns through whatever it hits. If it is aimed well, and it was often aimed well, it would burn through a very thick armor door of the very rest humvee we were best, most expensive humvee we were giving soldiers. It would burn inside and cause chaos. Did you shoot video . I did not, no. That was a helmet video. The soldiers recorded a lot of things. There is a lot of information about this war, a lot of documentation that comes from individual diaries, from a lot of photographs, from helmet cams. The whole deal. It is out there and available. Was that a humvee . Holes that vshaped would deflect these things a little better, but they were slow in coming and they did not reach these guys until the very end of the deployment. They were going around in a humvee. These were 12,000 pound things, they cost a lot of money. Would you ride in one of those in a convoy like that . Sure. If im going to be honest about it, at first, and i was with them on the ground for about eight months, maybe a month, six weeks at a time. At first, i was going out all the time. But by the end, forgive me, but i had become rattled enough by the experience, by the explosions, by everything going on, that i only went out when i knew there was a good chance of seeing something new. That is not the perfect way to do journalism. You want to always go out, be available for the serendipity of what a day might bring. After going out in a days, yeah, i got a little reluctance toward reluctant toward the end. Let me jump to the middle of your book and one of the soldiers you write about, we will show a photo on the screen. Adam schumann. Why did he focus on him and where is he today . Adam schumann you will think i am not capable of the short answer, but i do need to explain him. I met adam one day when i was doing reporting for the first book. It was a relatively quiet time and i was asking around, who do you regard as a great soldier . Who do i need to meet . Somebody mentioned this guy. I had not heard of him. I had not met him. A few days pass and i went in search of him. I walked into a room. This photograph is later. I have another photograph in the book of what i saw when i walked into his room. It was this great soldier with this gaunt, haunted look. I introduced myself and he said, i guess i know why you are here. I said, i want to write about you. I hear you are a great soldier and he kind of laughed. He said he was leaving the war that day. He was done. What had happened was this guy was on his third deployment. He is a little older, so guys looked up to him. Leader. Great soldier. Three deployments. By his count, he had been in combat about 1000 days. I am in the middle of reading this book right now about world war ii and i went through a passage where, even in that great war where there was almost a sense of morality to it, guiding the mission, in that case, guys had been in combat for 200 days they would try to , take them off the front lines for a while. This guy, 1000 days. A lot of that things have happened. And he cracked open, he could not do it. Where did you see him when you first talked to him . In his room waiting for the , helicopter to leave the war. I stayed with him and we talked a while. Then he walked to the helicopter. The guy was not thinking of how well he had done, performing someone elses policy, and he had done well. He was just cloaked in shame. What was his military rank . He was a sergeant. He was a staff sergeant. There he went. Out of the war on a helicopter with a big red cross on the side and he was embarrassed about it. He came home with a sense of shame and guilt that he had to leave the war. That continues to define much of his life since. Just trying to overcome it was not logical. He had done well. But in his own conversation he was having in his head about himself, for whatever reason, he was ashamed and came home. He is busy trying to recover. When did you go back to him for this book . After the first book came out, i kept in touch with him. He said something one day. I will get the quote a little it was Something Like, i was a normal guy i was , sent to iraq, where i became crazy. So they sent me back to america to become normal and now it is america driving me crazy. I did not know what that meant, but i liked the sound of it and i was curious about it. Then as i got more calls for more people having a difficult time, he became the center of centerpiece of the new book. If i jump in, i will read some of it back to you. Fill in the blanks. Page 86. These are your words over time, the war came to mean less and less until it meant nothing at all. In the meantime, to other soldiers it meant more and more until it came to mean anything everything. What is the point . Anyone who has been in war will tell you the same thing. Over time, war does not become about policy or a mission or winning or losing. It is about the guy next to you. Just taking care of the guy next to you. I have to say, the tenderness between soldiers, if you need a definition of tenderness, there it is. Who is bay . He was one of schumanns soldiers. After a day in which another soldier was hit by one of these bombs i described and died, schumann was supposed to be on that mission but for various reasons, he was kept back at the base. He didnt go. Schumann had the best eyes, always found the bombs. He was not there that day. A bomb went off. A guy named james died from the explosion. Afterwards, this guy said to him, and let me paraphrase to keep out the profanity. This wouldnt have happened if you were there. He meant it as a compliment, but schumann in this degrading transition, internal degrading transition heard it as one more , reason he should feel guilty. That it was blame, indictment, that the guy would be alive if you had been there. It wasnt a compliment. It was one more thing. You say his name was christopher golumby. In that soldiers way, just as adam had loved to be a soldier in combat was to fall in love constantly. And then he was dead and he said what he said. What did adam do next . He fell apart alone and flew away alone and came home alone. And even with his wife we have a , picture so people can see. Zoey and jackson, his children. He has felt alone at times ever since. Before you answer that tell us , about his life. That is adams wife, saskia. As adam was walking to the helicopter that day, he called her and said he was on his way. At one point in the conversation, she said, i am a little afraid of what you might do to me. Adam assured her he would not do anything. He hung up but then said, i dont know what im going to do. That was one mystery. She, like any military wife at the end of the deployment, actually, he was coming home ill, but she had her own set of expectations. He was going to come home, he would feel safe. They would heal together. Everything would be as it was. That is how it started out for her. But over time as the centerpiece , of this family he came this psychological wound, saskia went from pure compassion to irritation to anger. This is one example of a family trying to heal. Where do they live now . Since the end of the book, so much of the book takes place in kansas they have moved to , north dakota. Their marriage did not survive. At the end of the book, it is a rather, rather lovely, hopeful moment, as adam experiences his second homecoming from the war, this time coming home from a treatment program. You know, life went on and they realized there was too much poison to raise children the way they wanted to raise them. They are divorced but they live near each other. Would you tell us the moment when she thought he was going to commit suicide . There were several. You asked earlier if i was present for everything and i was not present for it. How could i really be present . I had been in kansas and i came back to washington to do reporting here. I started getting texts from saskia saying it had hit the fan now and what had happened. After war, things escalate so quickly. A moment that seems so loving can turn and flip and be so outofcontrol. This is one of these days. It ended with adam packing to leave. Saskia went through his things and saw a hidden handgun and said, whats the deal . He said he was going to take it to sell it because he would need money. On top of the other pressures, they have no money. She just held the gun. He came out with a shotgun and really tried to jam it at her. To get her goat so much that she would pull the trigger and kill him. Saskia said she wanted to, she wanted this over, not only to pull the trigger once, she wanted to pull the trigger twice. That is what it had come to. Instead, she steps onto the porch and screams Something Like, be a man. She goes on the porch and comes back. A few minutes later, he is nowhere in sight. She searches the house and finally goes downstairs into the basement. The worst room in the house, this furnace room, where adam sometimes would do some work. There he was sitting with a shotgun