The American Bar Association for close to an hour. As you know, fran has just joined our committee and was able to have the 702 passed. [laughter] past, ie 702 was just am wondering what your senses of how the bill has been passed and what your senses on the compromise and whether they have hit the right mark. Frances there are a lot of friends and former colleagues in the room so it is a privilege to be with you today. I expect that the bill will pass. I think we are on a ramp that the legislation should get voted in the senate on tuesday. Will Mitch Mcconnell allow amendments, not clear, i think not. Despite thesed president s tweet yesterday morning. This roomople in understand, but what most americans do not understand, when you hear the privacy and Civil Liberties debate, i get why that is important during most people do not understand that have not worked inside the community is the many layers of protections that are inside the system, not just inside the fbi, yes they have an internal system of checks and balances, they also get reviewed by the Justice Department, now the National Security division, formerly my office. There is the president s privacy and Civil Liberties board. They have reporting requirements to congress, both the intelligence and judiciary committees. There are lots of controls over the checks and to prevent abuses. About extent people worry the scope of the 702 authority, we have to recognize and a knowledge that because it is an extraordinary power and an extraordinarily necessary power, the government itself has chosen to put all kinds of checks and balances around it. When iran the office of public responsibility the office ofran public responsibility, now the National Security division, you did an annual filing of the number of fisa surveillance warrants and search warrants. You broke it down by u. S. Persons and not u. S. Persons. You ought to expect there will be the same reporting requirements with regard to 702. The Justice Department and fbi know how to do that and even if they are not set up to count right now, they will be. That will give us a better sense of just how they utilize the 702 persons,w many u. S. That is data we do not have now that we will have once the legislation passes. 702 is focused on nonus persons located abroad. Perform with a significant purpose for the foreign intelligence process. S is thate argument back thee use 7022 requirements of the fourth amendment. Is that a concern you have seen or do you think that in the event we have an ongoing criminal investigation, then there will be a warrant required is that sufficient. We were there pre9 11 and the famous wall was there. That is what the amendments were supposed to do, overcome the wall. How do you feel now given that current amendment in the bill . Frances i think were going to find that 702 is not used all that often when you are talking about a u. S. Person in a criminal case. That is not what it was intended for. There is incidental collection by the way, under fisa there was the anticipation of incidental collection and that is why you have been them as asian procedures that is why you have minimization procedures that will still apply. Jim comey, when he was director they have said terrorism investigations in all 50 states, they have more leads than they can follow. The notions that agents are sitting around banging against the 702 database to run a girlfriends name is nuts. It does not work that way. While i understand there is a concern, that is why there are checks and balances. I do not think you will see that sort of abuse. Senators burr and warner in the shown real leadership at a time in washington where we complain that there is not real leadership. Senator warren and senator burr deserve real credit. On justice concern they were talking about language that you go into the 702 database and you come up with a u. S. Person, you have to notify the court within 24 to 48 hours. That sort of amendment is an acknowledgment of the concern. I think we always said with that power should, extraordinary accountability. If we find individuals that are abusing that power, they should be held accountable to the full force of the law. Americand make the people feel comfortable, that the power is there but we are prepared to discipline people severely. This raises a more general question. This is a technology issue. Erodingnology issue is where we know people to be and who they are. Where do you see, if i can make you queen for the day in the Intelligence Community, what reforms or what issues do you think we should focus on as we move forward into the 21st century. I mean queen for the day in the power sense as opposed to a criminal matter. I think there was a time when were laughing before breakfast started there was a time we tried to describe the difference in authorities between fbi and cia. Seat dried looking in an seat wet looking out. That is archaic now. The internet does not allow you to make these territorial distinctions that we used to rely on. People in this room understand it, most americans do not. A u. S. Person, most americans think of that as being an american born. Guess what. Do not know, we presume you are a u. S. Person. If there is any single selector that would cause us to believe you may be a u. S. Person, you are a u. S. Person. If youre a foreigner inside the u. S. , we treat you as a u. S. Person. This u. S. Person category is far broader than i think the average american understands and appreciates. That is because we want to started byas jamie fundamental our own sense of values and principles. Does it make sense rusted continue to distinguish u. S. Persons and nonus persons does it make sense for us to continue to distinguish u. S. Persons and nonus persons . Frances i think that we as a country are not prepared to say the rights and privileges that americans enjoy our exceptional. If we are in some way going to continue to work to make sure that those exceptional rights and privileges are protected in a special way. I think it is getting harder, i think it will continue to get harder. I think we want to define that quite broadly. It is the values question. We have a constant duchenne for a reason we have a constitution for a reason. We have these protections for a reason. Just because it is hard i would not want to see it say we are going to get pushed to the european model. Are there any other thoughts that you would have if you could sit down with both the congress and the president visavis issues in the Intelligence Community that require attention as we prepare for adversaries in the 21st century . We have some issues with meddling in our elections. What is the appropriate response we should have . Should there be reforms in the community in order us in order for a stability respond. Frances for better or worse, i helped author the intelligence reform act. The intelligence reform act created the dni. It is easy in washington great something. It is impossible to kill anything. This explains our careers. [laughter] frances good point. I always believe, whether it is the department of Homeland Security or the dni, you have to have a point in time where you have to say is this, are they performing the function and purpose i instituted before. Let me give you an example. Together,ment was put president bush was not in favor of the legislation, came around after the 9 11 commission, it was put together very quickly with 23 agencies merged together. It was intended to be border security. People and things crossing the border. Air, sea, and land. It had other things put in it. As the mandate for the department the right mandate, and it is performing and is it performing the right function . Forhe National Center counterterrorism. Frances the National Center for counterterrorism. I was talking to her principal and the Trump Administration new said the National Counterterrorism center has about 200 people, all of those people, if they were not there could do targeted operations. Did you intend it to be that size . I was stunned. Me that theurred to National Counterterrorism center would be upwards of a thousand people with people posted in states and localities around the united states. They perform an important function. They are positioned by there is parties regulate and ensure protections between domestic information and foreign intelligence. Im not suggesting you do away with it, but i am suggesting it is time, anything that grows to be a thousand people that started as a subcomponent of the dni, you ought to look at this and say is it performing the function, is at the right size, how do we improve it Going Forward . Thate are reluctant to do im not being critical of the Current Administration or the obama administration. I think any administration ought to want to do that. I know it is hard, you cannot keep up with the daytoday stuff. I think we would serve ourselves well to go back and look at these post9 11 structures we put in place and ask ourselves the hard questions. National center for counterterrorism, the other major component is the counterintelligence. A great dealcussed but for many of us in the room it has been something we have devoted a great deal of inention to, particularly the Current Situation we are finding with our adversaries who seem to be able to be penetrating a lot of our network. What is your sense of counterintelligence, where we are at with that and whether or not we could be doing better or improvements you would suggest you, i i will tell think it has never been more important. It has always been inside the dni, the faster step the bastard stepchild. It gets very little attention. I thought that would change after the 2016 election. I thought we would get more funding and prominence. The is not just about election. John and i were talking before breakfast about russian measures. This is exactly the sort of effort that should be led by the National Counterintelligence center in coordination with the fbi. It requires leadership from the dni and leadership from the white house. Have re are things i i would change, ciber is change the way we do everything, not least of all counterintelligence. I do think we have to begin to say we hold precious the freedom of the press. Our enemies are using our enemies are using the weight of our privileges against us. Realize the russians are using the black lives movement of the White Supremacist Movement to so ewswstic distant two domestic discontent and we have not devoted the resources to deal with that. The position where you are focused on being the National Security adviser. Frances if you have a department that has some a Different Missions and responsibilities, if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. I think they have done an , but someone jobs i had the privilege to work with in the Bush Administration also had plum island i bet no one knows what plum island is. There are some people from massachusetts. She has she has fema, all sorts of things she has to have responsibility for. I think they go from one hurricane to another, from one Immigration Crisis to another, i do think that is why i say on the counterintelligence side, this is not really kiersten nielsens department of Homeland Security. This is a tier one National Security problem that requires the attorney general and the dni, this requires the president s cabinet to devote time and attention with a strategy. Maybe it is fair to open up the to open up to the audience with some questions . Something . As. There is not been a coup fran, you served as the assistant to the president in Homeland Security. My question is, could you comment on what you see with respect to National Security process today at the nsc. Nscis it similar to past processes, how is it different and what do you think the points of comparison are . Frances i think from all accounts, when a new andnistration came in, every new administration youre going to see missteps in the beginning. You have a bunch of new people that never worked together before, in and try to figure out how to they want to run the process. I think this administration came in and thought they were going to start from scratch. They were going to completely redo the policy review process. I think that is how you see things like the original immigration order. That all sorts of problems with it. Much moreey run it traditional. I think the executive secretary manages the paper flow would be very familiar to any of you owe who have worked to any of you who have worked before. Less requiring principles to come physically into the white house. It is much more efficient, you can save the principles time. That is a good thing. Tweaks around the margins of the process are fine. You take advantage of technology. The discipline of the process is incredibly important. I think they learned a tough lesson. I think they thought maybe they could shortcircuit some of that. It is much more what you and i would recognize as a traditional nsc process. National security adviser came out of the first year, that is not an easy thing to do. I would like to see them come out with a cyber strategy. I think we need a very clear National Cyber strategy that includes some of these counterintelligence issues. It has to be both offense event defense of. And both offensive and defensive. Question is contingent if you are familiar with the National Security strategy they came out for the first time in several years. It is a simple question. If we look at the National Security strategy is a desired whatint for 2020 or 2021, in your mind are the key things the administration has to get right in order to achieve those strategic objectives. A continuation of longstanding american principles about promotion of democracy and opposing tyranny. My key question is what are the things they have to get right that all of us from all parties can encourage and support . Frances great question. It was interesting to me because when the strategy came out, the white house did what every white house does and that is a and had aut strategy bunch of folks like me on the phone talking about what was in it in advance. It went very much traditional american values. The president s rollout, on the is hehand, did not rolling out the same document i just read . It sounds different. I hesitate because i feel uncertain if the document is the real strategy and you have committed resources to it. I do think we have to be predictable to our allies great our allies cannot wonder if we are with them or not with them because it diminishes American Power in the world. I do not have to tell you, it does not mean we always agree with our allies. , butan have disagreements you cannot do that to the south koreans publicly while they are in a National Security threat. Key toink we have to their success on a Foreign Policy side is strengthening our traditional relationships and allies. I think it is unfortunate the president is not going to the u. K. He has been received in poland, germany, france, i think it is unfortunate he has canceled the u. K. Trip. A bunch of political reasons, the president has steered clear of the cyber issue. I sound like a broken record. I think he cannot. If the president was asking me for a device, my attitude to this is i would go face first into it. I think you want to own it and you want to you cannot defeat somebody unless youre willing to call them out and identify your adversaries and the problems they cause. He is not the least bit unwilling to say hard or abrasive things, i just wish we would see him be willing to articulate who our adversaries are, what we are going to do about it, and how we are going after them. Being willing to build a coalition. I will tell you that what is happening in the middle east, to talk about fundamental to our longterm interests, we can disagree and have real problems with the human rights record in iran or saudi arabia, but the sort of reforms that are going are not onlyrabia in our national interest, but they are in the longterm interest of stability in the region. Just yesterday, women were in a stadium watching a soccer match, they opened a women only car sales place. This is getting 50 of their population engaged, it is tremendous. Arepresident there number of areas where there are good things going on. I come back to where i started. I feel less certain that is part of an overall strategy. Opportunity,s huge particularly in the middle east. I think it remains to be seen whether or not we can get that kind of across the line. The one thing we have not talked about is counter cooperation. I would be remiss if i did not say, in a world where you have north korea, you have the i romney ands you have the iranians. The saudis have put out a civilian Nuclear Program in saudi arabia. I think we are going to see an unprecedented pace of pleura for a should. Of proliferation there is nobody talking about the proliferation issue and i worry about that for my kids and my grandkids. Toyouve opened the door proliferation becoming a tipping point, transformative for our generation. You mentioned the cyber issue and talking about 702 one of the other core issues the debate is tied to is our famous encryption problem. That encryption problem is tied to different sovereign nations taking different approaches about whether or not they want access to that data flow either in motion or at rest. What is your take and where do you come down on this very. Whats your take and where do core me down on this issue, because if we can listen but its encrypted its not going to help us, so where do on that . Harvey, to state really ous, this is hard, right . F. B. I. To get access information. Per