They can change their behavior that leads to Sexual Harassment and assault. This is 40 minutes. We are focusing on the way in which Sexual Assault, for years, has been a sort of campus issue. Often with the shocking statistic of one in four women were one in five women on College Campuses will be raped before she graduates. Seen that Sexual Violence and Sexual Harassment continue to follow people into their careers after college. The purpose of this panel is to think more holistically about whatroblem of violent and remains that can be sort of transferred. I will start by introducing one of the foremost experts at stony brook and the author of many books. He has studied this issue in many different ways. ,m interested to ask michael what is it that men in their careers need to have already learned . Ranks thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I am thrilled to participate. I want to say about the last panel, what they said. I have a number of things i want to emphasize. Thatirst thing i heard was this is not necessarily normative. I think getting inside the idea of masculinity is really important. When i hear from a large number of men in this moment is, we dont know what to say. We are walking on egg shells. That is good news. Most men dont want to be jerks. Our role in some respects is to provide support to those who dont do it so they can intervene and challenge those who do. Most men do not want to be jerks but they do not know how to not be jerks. Things about two this. I want to echoes something that was said earlier that we dont teach algebra once a week. I am universitybased and i also do work outside universities. We are constantly bemoaning the fact that the American PublicSchool System has illprepared students for College Level work. So we have remedial writing programs, remedial map programs. The things we thought once upon a time they wouldve gotten high school but they dont. All right, we are so sorry about that, we are going to do something about that. Everybody has to take these entrylevel courses that shouldve been done in high school. So why dont we also do sexual education because most get no Sex Education. And if they do, sometimes its even worse than no Sex Education. Instead of sitting on College Campus saying, oh my, we should say, everyone is required to have comprehensive Sex Education in their college years. Just orientation for one hour during orientation when you are brand new on a campus when all you want to do is make friends, get drunk, and get laid. All through your years in college, think mandatory cooperative Sex Education in college should be one thing we can do. The second thing i want to say about universities is i want to echoes something said earlier. These kinds of the pulses come from the top down. We talk about the military that way, history of corporations. Executives say this is important to me, i want this workplace, i want this to be so placed that everyone i want this place to be so safe that everyone can shopping be gas that everyone can show up and be completely productive. I am thinking about this institutionally. Here is something that happens on College Campuses, you might not even know this. This is institutional. This is not on young people. This is on us. Did you know that according to National Panhellenic rules, National Greek letters sororities are prohibited from serving a call at parties but according to the fraternity greeknationally letters can. Who has the parties . This is a structural thing. I keep thinking, you want to reduce . We can experiment. I have this experiment idea. I want one campus to come forward and say, for the next two years only the sororities can serve alcohol at parties. The fraternities are prohibited. Do you think Sexual Assault would go down . I dont know. Lets find out. What might happen is an set of the guy standing at the door she hot enough, is she dancing the way we want, is she having sex the way we want, are you a babe enough to come in, no. We would have woman at the door saying, are you a gentleman enough to come in. I know some men who say even if she gets so drunk she cant stand up, she goes up to her begich. Again, i am an empiricist. A social scientist. I want to try. This is on us. We let this happen and then we blame students for it. Thank you for that. I hope you have something to say, because my next question is for the executive director of and rape on campus. And coauthor of a book we believe you. So elevating the story of survivors, i am wondering if you could talk a little bit about how ending violence and work laces and what it has done with what you do on campus. Think the first thing to recognize is we have been talking about this for centuries, quite literally centuries. There are people in this room and on this stage have been doing this work since before i was even born. It is because of you we are even able to have this conversation and we also have all of the shunt people growing up. So this is not new. It has just maybe fallen on deaf ears. It is also important to recognize that the way we have been having a lot of these conversations is loaded. Age, k12. , work we cant talk about violence on College Campuses without talking about military, the catholic church, and we also cant talk about Sexual Violence without talking about racism, homophobia, and transphobia. Were echo on what you saying on the Previous Panel into its your question, yes. We have to start earlier. Time we are talking about Sexual Assault is way too late. To hear from a teacher, he is chasing you because he thinks you are cute. A schoolyard crush. Fast forward to middle school. I want a researcher to tell me how many hours of a Girls Education are lost every single year because they are taken out of their chemistry or algebra or theirh class because skirts are too short, their collarbones are showing, and then we are giving a message to our young man that they are suddenly not responsible enough to control their behavior. What message does that send our kids . We know Sexual Assault happens much earlier the end college. Elementary school, high school. Abuse, thedy reports questions they get. Why did you go home with them . What were you wearing . Flash back to that high school where you work pulled out of your High School Class because you are showing too much collarbone. I wanted to tie that together from the first dannel to say if we are starting at College Level, it is too late. So i wouldnt to say that. Has the enthusiasm of this moment, even starting off with the metoo, which millions of people shared and stepped forward and told their stories, who many of whom had never been a part of any kind of activism on this issue at all, has its has it invigorated the Campus Movement . Annie i think its really important to recognize that there are many different ways to be a survivor, and that there is not one right way. And while the me too movement and i say that in quotes because it was a started in the 1990s and even before that, no one should have to publicly stand on a stage and tell their story in order to be believed and supported. And if somebody wants to share their story, absolutely. If they dont want to, their story is no less valid. So i think, yes, while, if you give people a safe space to share their story, many people will. But we cant judge people for not, because they might not feel safe doing so. I also think its really important to recognize whose stories are being elevated. The media, to be quite honest, likes stories of people who look like me, and we need to start changing the narrative. Especially when we know that native women, women of color, black women, lgbt communities experience much higher rates of violence and are often erased from the conversation. And so, while this effort is getting so much traction, and im grateful for that, i think its really important that we take a critical look at the media and how different folks narratives are being told, which is one of the reasons we wrote we believe you, my coauthor and i, to make sure that folks could tell their stories in their own words. Haley thank you so much. I want to bring in our third panelist into the conversation. Don mcpherson is an allamerican quarterback at syracuse. Don was. Haley was, a runnerup for the heisman trophy. More importantly for our purposes, a decadeslong activist on this issue who has spent a long time talking about to College Students specifically about these questions. I am really curious about the way in which colleges have been a place of course, they get most of their attention for being breeding grounds for toxic masculinity, but other ways in which colleges have actually been a place for transformation. Don i think that the last thing you said is significant. Colleges are a place for transformation. Not around this issue, but everything that goes back to the algebra analogy. Colleges are a place of transformation when you talk about any kind of academic discipline or any kind of excellence in pursuit of any endeavor. Except this. And thats where the shift has to change on College Campuses. I think theres something thats really important, and i can go back to what michael said and the Previous Panel. We had dinner last night and listened to these men talk. And what they said. I was 29yearsold, and i tell this story often, when i met jackson katz. At 29yearsold, i knew what it meant to be black. I knew what it meant to be an american playing in the canadian football league, i knew what it meant to be a new yorker just because im a new yorker. I was 29yearsold. I knew what it meant to be the youngest of five children. I knew all these things that shaped my identity, except i never considered masculinity. I was considered an alpha male as a professional football player. I was considered this iconic understanding of masculinity and i had no idea what that meant. And so in order to have that conversation, like you mentioned, how do we have these transformative conversations, we do have to get to the point where were talking to men in a different way than we and this is the other side of this. We on the outside of the movement typically talk about this. And theres the one thing that we do in activism, which is pushing the issue, pushing the facts, pushing the statistics, being more inclusive, and then theres really the education that needs to happen. And i always say that we dont raise boys to be men, we raise boys not to be women. So i was raised in that ideology. I was raised not to be a woman in terms of what my masculinity meant. Which is why when i met jackson, all of a sudden i had to switch to being very proactive in how i understood masculinity. I had to reconstruct so many different lessons i have learned, rehabilitate so many Different Things i had learned about what it meant to be a man. That is what it took, being immersed with jackson. I mean, if you listen to jackson, you hear that, i used to sit, and sit together, as we did last night, and listen to men really grapple with how the culture what the culture expects of us as men and how we internalize that and how we make that work for us in our lives. If we are going to do the work in higher education, we should approach this issue not necessarily in the way we approach it as activists, but the way we approach it as educators. In education, we dont do prevention work in higher ed. We do excellence work. We do competency work. Very often, people look at sports. We missed what the reality of what the sports analogy or example can do. Exports, what we do, we prepare to make the decisions. It is not easy on game day, and the olympics. In the athletes compete olympics as we can have been preparing four years for 90 seconds. Why we talk about this is when jackson mentioned the by it is notehavior, looking at the everyday conversations that are happening over and over that lead to what happened in 90 seconds. That is where the education used to happen. Conversation,his with no understanding around masculinity, is one of the sons why gender equality we dont realize we have gender. Say, we want equity. Men say, equity of what . We dont have that thing you have. Benever have been raised to full, whole people. Ofi would like to ask each you to give us something, for the menu are listening that is not falling on deaf ears, maybe men in this audience, or men we might encounter after we leave, one concreteing thing, you would advise men who are serious about the thing about being invested in gender equity, what should they do . Who wants to start . Things. L say two i just wanted to say the general contacts, i think this i want to echoes something and he said. Thes a moment where, for first time when women are speaking, they are being believed. I think this took a long side a long time. The person who started this was anita hill. After what happened to her, women went quiet. They have been talking to each other all this time. They know how to believe each other. They know how to talk about this. This is a moment where women are being believed, even Mitch Mcconnell said he believes the women who are accusing roy moore. Women are being believed. This is a moment of opportunity for us. It is not inevitable this will continue to become the watershed moment it has the potential to be. I think part of the answer to whether that happens or not is how we engage if men. I want to say one other thing which is to say, i want to tell you that i am an activist and an academic. I am very optimistic. As an activist, i amaq to miss it because i believe change is possible. As an academic, a professor, i believe if my students engage with their world, their lives will be better. I am temperamentally optimistic. Bear with me. I think it is really important there was a survey. The opportunity is to rethink past behavior. To rethink what they have learned, what they have been taught, how they have behaved, and to begin to atone for that, too retheorized that. The economist published a survey, this is the optimistic part, it showed that men and workplaces, to age cohorts of men, 1830 and over 60. They asked them questions about workplace interactions and behavior. Lets be clear. Masturbating in front of someone has are what always been wrong. But they asked of them the low level stuff. Is it ok to call it woman honey or sweetheart . Is it ok to come up behind her and give her a necklace on . Is it ok to say you look beautiful today . The 1830thirds of euros said that is not ok. 80 of the 60 and more said it was. Young people know this. We have been doing this for a long time. We have to follow them. Those new norms are becoming more abedin and young peoples culture. In youngmbedded peoples culture. I think this is a moment that men can do to big things. The first is we have to listen rah. P we have to listen to women. We have to stop talking to women, telling them about their oppression. We have to listen. We need to believe them. The second thing, if we start to listen to women, we have to Start Talking to other men. I have a very concrete workplace idea. Every woman in this room is has probably had this experience. You have been in a meeting where you are virtually the only woman or another woman in the room and there are a lot of men in the room. Says something stupid and sexist. And everybody looks at you. God, here she goes. Big eye roll. She is going to ruin it. The women is put in this position of either feeling terrible and making everybody else feel terrible, or feeling terrible alone. She is now in the position. She will feel bad. After the meeting, one of the says,omes up to you and oh, i am really sorry about what happened in that meeting. At that point, you want to strangle him. You want to say, where were you when i needed you . Here is what i think needs to happen. I would say, you dont i cant speak about myself. They will marginalize me. I will, and become an honorary moment woman. When they say, sorry. In that condescending way. Here is when you have to do. You have to look around that room. Men, you look around the room and see if there is someone else besides you who was looking down at their shoes, who is shuffling papers uncomfortably. You have to go up to them and you say, listen, i am not down with what bob was saying over there. Next time we go to a meeting, i am going to say something. As soon as i do, you have to jump in and say, i dont like it either. Because, if two people one person doesnt, he is marginalize. If two people do it, we open up a space and the other guys can say, i dont like it either. And it stops there. When i am saying is men have to do two things. In, support each other challenging one another. Those of the conversations that have to happen. Very concretely. We have all been in the meeting. Thank you. Maybe more brief. Sorry. [laughter] professor, they pay me to think in one hour and 20 minute chunks. Haley thank you. Annie . Office, show up, and vote. I will be brief, i promise. I really want everyone to take away that there is something that you can do. Individual level. Everybodys activism does not have to look the same. I get this example often when trying to convince legislators that we should talk about consent in preschool and elementary school. My partner has a dog. A very cute song a queue. There is no research to back this, but young boys will more often than not pet this dog without asking permission. And parents will not do anything. Young girls are more likely to ask permission, can i pay your dog . Willey dont, parents punish them. Thinking about consent and insion and every day everyday ways is important. Whether you are a doctor, a teacher, a student, a sister, a friend, a parent, an ally, there is something you can do. My challenge would be not only to vote, but to look at your everyday life. Whether it is watching the super bowl last saturday and there was a sexist is commercial on and you didnt say anything, or who you are going to have lunch with after this, im getting hungry. Think about those things you can do in your everyday life. Ally, it should not be