Transcripts For CSPAN House Transportation Subcommittee On T

Been on revenue especially since it is the most difficult thing we have had to do. And people are using other methods to bring us into the 21t century on transportation. So we are looking at some of those questions and the nuances of federal polling policy on congestion pricing and Technology Solutions to address congestion. So while congress. But to negatively attack never before but not to mention the quality of the air that we breathe and the failure to deal with climate change. This was not even discussed at the time of the last reauthorization to indicate just how far time has moved and to catch up. The urban mobility report and you might want to look at what it says for your constituents but mine say 1840 per year in congestion cost and we here at the National Council are the and then on 1840 per year per constituents and those are my constituents. Nothing short of a test and in our case in this region as a result of 248 million hours of congestion delays in 2017 across the dc metropolitan area i invite you to look at what this means for the mobility report for your own area. Harvard school found 83 percent of the largest urban areas contribute more than 2200 more death annually and then the entire area of the big city and the suburbs. While we debate how to resolve congestion we have left the states and localities looking on their own and for more sources of revenue. Today with that greater towing flexibility to raise more revenue. But we also hear congress should erect barriers to tolling and what will come out is deliberate the decision is representative of a broader disagreement and then it has become main stream across the urban areas. We had a variable pricing and to go into a congestion area you can see new york city the closest to my own here in the state of virginia we have very told bruce of filenes during rush hour. I never thought i would see what has resulted that people are paying with tolls as high 47. 50 for a single 10mile trip. The excessive tolls raise equity questions of course in particular the impact of lower income drivers and likely to put traffic on the nearby roads and neighborhoods because people dont want to pay 20 to get anywhere. We cannot gloss over that impact as we look at the strategies. I am particularly interested in technology and how it can help resolve congestion. Autonomous vehicles, can they reduce congestion or do they increase cracks if anybody can hop into a car and go anyplace. We should be asking questions so finally i think it is critical it with those systems that we need and to reduce congestion i cannot imagine the National Capital region. Dense urban areas rely and then to become more and more popular propose some of the panel suggest toll revenues should only go to maintain the toll road. However i remind you that then we reduce on travel is a highly effective tool to reduce congestion. Thank you to the witnesses and i want to ask the chairman of the full committee. I should ask the Ranking Member. [laughter] my good friend mister davis for his comments. Thank you madam chair especially getting those policies to go forward i always yield to the chairman first. That helps. [laughter] that means they put them to sleep. [laughter] clearly that was not me that alluded to that but the chairman. But this is a Great Committee and really enjoy serving with chairwoman norton and the thats why youre here today and then to recognize the subcommittee will do a lot of work to reauthorize the surface transportation policies. We have held a number of hearings on very important policy topics. Want to thank the chair for allowing us to participate these types of gatherings. Today according to some that americans traveled an eight. 8 billion hours for that congestion purchased three. 5 billion gallons of fuel with a total cost of 166 billion in 2017. Doctor lomax is with us today who wrote the report and i look forward to finding his findings and followup questions. So to negatively impact the markets and that undermines the economy and the america global competitiveness. Congestion is not just an urban issue although in my district in South Central illinois the idea of congestion is much different than the idea out here in washington dc another larger urban area. But perhaps most importantly congestion of matter where you are and football practice i was coaching the double games and getting to a basketball game and watching my daughter cheer in high school. These are things that are very personal to us. The hearing will specifically focus the states and local communities are utilizing some of the tools in the toolbox of tolling and congestion pricing strategies and new technologies to address congestion. Witnesses will provide realworld examples of these are being deployed as well as give us perspective if they are working well. The other tools to address then we need a thoughtful approach to have that flexibility to do a make sense with their unique circumstances because no single solution will work here in washington dc and at the same time work in the 13th Congressional District of illinois. I look forward to our discussion of this issue and how the federal government can be a good partner to states and local communities as they seek to address congestion with that thank you to our witnesses and the chairwoman for being here today i yield back. Now mister davis it is your turn. The full committee. Thank you madam chair. You both made points that Congress Needs to Pay Attention to. The cost of congestion is four times the federal investment for surface transportation and transit. Four times as much money and wasting add an annual basis year after year after year. But around here we are paralyzed we cannot figure out how we are ever going to pay for this. Lets see we havent adjusted the gas and diesel taxes 1983. I have proposed something that is so demented dismissed it is just embarrassing we cannot do it. Limit the annual increase to one and a half cents gas per year. And then people around the country show they are willing to pay to get out of congestion. The congress has not got the message the white house hasnt got the message they love to talk about a big infrastructure bill of two i think she cut transportation and investment. The states cannot do it on their own. They are trying. A lot of all red states with registration fees it isnt a partisan issue out there in america it is here in washington dc. We are at the point of total paralysis i will not repeat the statistics but the amount of fuel wasted sitting around his 4 billion gallons per year wasted fuel adding to the problems. It is time to act so well hear some things today that we say congestion pricing that is an alternative and we saw congestion that person doesnt set their schedule to go to work most likely and they dont have a lot of options unless you build sufficient options you cannot just write them off the road and then 47 for 10 miles cracks that is chauffeured limousine. Who can afford that cracks in my own state we have freeways some of the legislature from portland decided maybe we should toll part of them to deal with some problems. But of course is not like the hotline you have an option you use it or not use it. What about people who have to go from the east side of portland to the west to go to work work sorry. That takes two hours because it will cost a bunch of money you cant afford. We need a comprehensive approach that is more federal investment and then to apply technology in 21st Century Technology. You said at traffic lights. Nobody is coming. They have smart traffic lights in real time. Imagine that 21st Century Technology we are still working with 19th century with the metered traffic lights that stand on the corner what they think traffic flows will be in the future that has nothing to do with reality. I am losing patience the Senate Passed the bill that has some decent policies a little more spending that the leaders of the senate they say we cant pay for that. Who will pay for it if not we waste more money every year , day in and day out and year in and year out and americans get more frustrated. I hope todays hearing provide some ideas to help mitigate these problems but the bottom line is we have to pony up the money or we will not solve any problems. Thank you. I share the chairmans frustration we just cant do what we did. In order to get new money, who are we fooling cracks i appreciate the chairman raises the issue of the gas tax. How come in red states they are not afraid to raise the gas tax but they send people to congress who are cracks its like were stupid with revenue and what needs to be done in our system. And gilbert the third who is the city and travis is director of Public Affairs for the and with that transportation to three of america and the chief executive officer on behalf of the American Trucking association. Timothy lomax from texas a M Transportation Institute and mark scribners senior fellow at aei and thank you for all of you for being here today i look forward to your testimony. Before we hear from the panel i would like to recognize ms. Wilson to introduce mary gilbert a constituent from her district. Thank you so much. We can introduce my personal mayor from Miami Gardens that i hope will and the super bowl to cheer on the Transportation Planning organization. When i learned of the subcommittee was having a caring on congestion with adult long history of Public Service beginning with the broader legislature and regarded legislatively and politically to become the mayor of the city of miami garden and as mayor has launched several initiatives to increase access to Public Transportation and improve mobility. One such initiative is the express of free service that many residents depend on. His accomplishments as mayor and leadership on transportation issues compel. Multibilliondollar Infrastructure Program to reduce congestion and spur Economic Growth welcome to congress. Thank you for testifying today and for your leadership on transportation issues that greatly concerned floridians and others throughout this nation. Thank you madam chair i yield back. Think through congresswoman wilson. We now recognize congresswoman davis to introduce mister hawkins. Thank you madam chair and Ranking Member i would like to. That is a freight Holding Company and employee 24000 drivers and dockworkers members of the International Brotherhood of teamsters the trucks travel more than 900 million miles annually and more than 1700 drivers have more than 1 million consecutive accident free miles thats it we are celebrating we have a long history that has been important in the metropolitan area of Business Community and the Civic Community and we are proud to be represented to hear your testimony today and i appreciate you taking the time to be here its a pleasure to have you and i yelled back. Thank you congresswoman. Without objection the witnesses statements will be entered into the record and the written testimony will be made available for the record the subcommittee request to limit oral testimony at five minutes. You may proceed. Thank you. Would be remiss 18 years ago from when attacked i stand and not of the men and women in military what they do for us to ensure that we can be in this room to have this discussion is important. Good morning Ranking Member and members of the distinguish subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify and also my congresswoman for our district i stand as her mayor and resident with all her service and the example she has set now the chair of the miamidade Transportation Planning Organization Also the proud mayor of the miami dolphins. I know. [laughter] i am longsuffering. I am here to tell you they are pathways. It isnt something that isnt the rail specifically in miamidade now going to Miami Gardens every day. Getting his law degree it was the responsible of him getting to be mayor of his town and i stand before you because someone invested in meaningful and efficient Public Transportation advocating we paint their score and create Dynamic Transportation and to promote conservation. Now we are starting to address this in Miamidade County like transportation is the instrument of Economic Development and job creation vertical Miamidade County traffic isnt just from the growth economically that to our development as a community. We have no way to build our way out of congestion to those alternatives of express lanes through the miamidade smart plan the Rapid Transit for the future in the 95 express had been in operation for ten years and has reduced overall Traffic Congestion to increase traffic flow with the miamidade region has the fourth largest population with the 12th ranked area for congestion through the use of the service that has been high the successful with 40 percent in the first two years implemented we plan to expand the Network Congress support the Value Pricing Pilot Program it with the leadership following us to pilot the test project forward to convert the hov lane and with the rankings on between ten and 12 by population which is actually remarkable not to say congestion is not a problem that that improves the commute times for all lanes including those that are significant that count has a longterm remedy for leading that congestion through the Rapid Transit network the smart plan is the top priority to involve improvements of the Rapid Transit corridors. Right now the south corridor is in the Development Funding stage miamidade needed 100 million we are asking the f ta to commit locally now with local funding for the next 40 years to implement the projects but is not enough and we need your help. Federal support like smart in a process to offer certainteed to help move projects forward is a must in for example expansion of the metro whale was a Elementary School but no mail has been developed all those kids right now deserve better we have to do better and faster we need a federal funding process acknowledges the need of a community to access opportunities within a reasonable timeframe so all the partners can do their parts. There needs to be free predefined funding structures to provide more as a solution to congestion. We can create a future and then create a future and do some great things. And to be expansive and grow mobile thank you for your support and leadership. Thank you very much. Now the director of Public Affairs. Chairman and Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee the assistant director the department of transportation thank you for the opportunity to appear today and i want to thank chairman defazio for his leadership on transportation issues and all he has done over three decades on this committee to make the transportation stronger so to be here talking because operating currently that could change in the coming years as the clamor for the public has led the legislators to direct to implement to show that the Portland Metro region due to rapid population and in the two years the congestion increased 13 percent that was on top of a similar increase the previous two years and the highway function looks like a parking lot it is now rush afternoon and evening and thats at least seven hours every day of congestion residents and businesses increasingly are complaining about how congestion in portland poses a growing threat to our economy making it more costly to get goods to market. In response come in 2017 the largest transportation investment package was passed in the history known as keyboard again moving it funded new lanes on the highways to relieve the bottleneck but they recognize we cannot build our way out of congestion they also invested Intelligent Transportation systems to make traffic flow more efficiently and significant investment for Transportation Options this allows the major Transit Agency to launch the biggest Service Expansion never but the legislation recognizes with all these investments it would not be enough for what the public demands even with this package i cannot find the high priority projects including improvements thats why the legislature turns to tolls to raise revenues for improvements they directed the commission and governing body made up of the northsouth core doors and face the worst congestion day engage stakeholders to have a Engagement Process and created a Stakeholder Advisory Committee for local government officials and advocates for low income communities and to charge the recommendation and to address potential impacts after Detailed Analysis they fell by the wayside but the Committee Work two options that can reduce congestion to implement to the core of the region the Technology Solutions<\/a> to address congestion. So while congress. But to negatively attack never before but not to mention the quality of the air that we breathe and the failure to deal with climate change. This was not even discussed at the time of the last reauthorization to indicate just how far time has moved and to catch up. The urban mobility report and you might want to look at what it says for your constituents but mine say 1840 per year in congestion cost and we here at the National Council<\/a> are the and then on 1840 per year per constituents and those are my constituents. Nothing short of a test and in our case in this region as a result of 248 million hours of congestion delays in 2017 across the dc metropolitan area i invite you to look at what this means for the mobility report for your own area. Harvard school found 83 percent of the largest urban areas contribute more than 2200 more death annually and then the entire area of the big city and the suburbs. While we debate how to resolve congestion we have left the states and localities looking on their own and for more sources of revenue. Today with that greater towing flexibility to raise more revenue. But we also hear congress should erect barriers to tolling and what will come out is deliberate the decision is representative of a broader disagreement and then it has become main stream across the urban areas. We had a variable pricing and to go into a congestion area you can see new york city the closest to my own here in the state of virginia we have very told bruce of filenes during rush hour. I never thought i would see what has resulted that people are paying with tolls as high 47. 50 for a single 10mile trip. The excessive tolls raise equity questions of course in particular the impact of lower income drivers and likely to put traffic on the nearby roads and neighborhoods because people dont want to pay 20 to get anywhere. We cannot gloss over that impact as we look at the strategies. I am particularly interested in technology and how it can help resolve congestion. Autonomous vehicles, can they reduce congestion or do they increase cracks if anybody can hop into a car and go anyplace. We should be asking questions so finally i think it is critical it with those systems that we need and to reduce congestion i cannot imagine the National Capital<\/a> region. Dense urban areas rely and then to become more and more popular propose some of the panel suggest toll revenues should only go to maintain the toll road. However i remind you that then we reduce on travel is a highly effective tool to reduce congestion. Thank you to the witnesses and i want to ask the chairman of the full committee. I should ask the Ranking Member<\/a>. [laughter] my good friend mister davis for his comments. Thank you madam chair especially getting those policies to go forward i always yield to the chairman first. That helps. [laughter] that means they put them to sleep. [laughter] clearly that was not me that alluded to that but the chairman. But this is a Great Committee<\/a> and really enjoy serving with chairwoman norton and the thats why youre here today and then to recognize the subcommittee will do a lot of work to reauthorize the surface transportation policies. We have held a number of hearings on very important policy topics. Want to thank the chair for allowing us to participate these types of gatherings. Today according to some that americans traveled an eight. 8 billion hours for that congestion purchased three. 5 billion gallons of fuel with a total cost of 166 billion in 2017. Doctor lomax is with us today who wrote the report and i look forward to finding his findings and followup questions. So to negatively impact the markets and that undermines the economy and the america global competitiveness. Congestion is not just an urban issue although in my district in South Central<\/a> illinois the idea of congestion is much different than the idea out here in washington dc another larger urban area. But perhaps most importantly congestion of matter where you are and football practice i was coaching the double games and getting to a basketball game and watching my daughter cheer in high school. These are things that are very personal to us. The hearing will specifically focus the states and local communities are utilizing some of the tools in the toolbox of tolling and congestion pricing strategies and new technologies to address congestion. Witnesses will provide realworld examples of these are being deployed as well as give us perspective if they are working well. The other tools to address then we need a thoughtful approach to have that flexibility to do a make sense with their unique circumstances because no single solution will work here in washington dc and at the same time work in the 13th Congressional District<\/a> of illinois. I look forward to our discussion of this issue and how the federal government can be a good partner to states and local communities as they seek to address congestion with that thank you to our witnesses and the chairwoman for being here today i yield back. Now mister davis it is your turn. The full committee. Thank you madam chair. You both made points that Congress Needs<\/a> to Pay Attention<\/a> to. The cost of congestion is four times the federal investment for surface transportation and transit. Four times as much money and wasting add an annual basis year after year after year. But around here we are paralyzed we cannot figure out how we are ever going to pay for this. Lets see we havent adjusted the gas and diesel taxes 1983. I have proposed something that is so demented dismissed it is just embarrassing we cannot do it. Limit the annual increase to one and a half cents gas per year. And then people around the country show they are willing to pay to get out of congestion. The congress has not got the message the white house hasnt got the message they love to talk about a big infrastructure bill of two i think she cut transportation and investment. The states cannot do it on their own. They are trying. A lot of all red states with registration fees it isnt a partisan issue out there in america it is here in washington dc. We are at the point of total paralysis i will not repeat the statistics but the amount of fuel wasted sitting around his 4 billion gallons per year wasted fuel adding to the problems. It is time to act so well hear some things today that we say congestion pricing that is an alternative and we saw congestion that person doesnt set their schedule to go to work most likely and they dont have a lot of options unless you build sufficient options you cannot just write them off the road and then 47 for 10 miles cracks that is chauffeured limousine. Who can afford that cracks in my own state we have freeways some of the legislature from portland decided maybe we should toll part of them to deal with some problems. But of course is not like the hotline you have an option you use it or not use it. What about people who have to go from the east side of portland to the west to go to work work sorry. That takes two hours because it will cost a bunch of money you cant afford. We need a comprehensive approach that is more federal investment and then to apply technology in 21st Century Technology<\/a>. You said at traffic lights. Nobody is coming. They have smart traffic lights in real time. Imagine that 21st Century Technology<\/a> we are still working with 19th century with the metered traffic lights that stand on the corner what they think traffic flows will be in the future that has nothing to do with reality. I am losing patience the Senate Passed<\/a> the bill that has some decent policies a little more spending that the leaders of the senate they say we cant pay for that. Who will pay for it if not we waste more money every year , day in and day out and year in and year out and americans get more frustrated. I hope todays hearing provide some ideas to help mitigate these problems but the bottom line is we have to pony up the money or we will not solve any problems. Thank you. I share the chairmans frustration we just cant do what we did. In order to get new money, who are we fooling cracks i appreciate the chairman raises the issue of the gas tax. How come in red states they are not afraid to raise the gas tax but they send people to congress who are cracks its like were stupid with revenue and what needs to be done in our system. And gilbert the third who is the city and travis is director of Public Affairs<\/a> for the and with that transportation to three of america and the chief executive officer on behalf of the American Trucking<\/a> association. Timothy lomax from texas a M Transportation Institute<\/a> and mark scribners senior fellow at aei and thank you for all of you for being here today i look forward to your testimony. Before we hear from the panel i would like to recognize ms. Wilson to introduce mary gilbert a constituent from her district. Thank you so much. We can introduce my personal mayor from Miami Gardens<\/a> that i hope will and the super bowl to cheer on the Transportation Planning<\/a> organization. When i learned of the subcommittee was having a caring on congestion with adult long history of Public Service<\/a> beginning with the broader legislature and regarded legislatively and politically to become the mayor of the city of miami garden and as mayor has launched several initiatives to increase access to Public Transportation<\/a> and improve mobility. One such initiative is the express of free service that many residents depend on. His accomplishments as mayor and leadership on transportation issues compel. Multibilliondollar Infrastructure Program<\/a> to reduce congestion and spur Economic Growth<\/a> welcome to congress. Thank you for testifying today and for your leadership on transportation issues that greatly concerned floridians and others throughout this nation. Thank you madam chair i yield back. Think through congresswoman wilson. We now recognize congresswoman davis to introduce mister hawkins. Thank you madam chair and Ranking Member<\/a> i would like to. That is a freight Holding Company<\/a> and employee 24000 drivers and dockworkers members of the International Brotherhood<\/a> of teamsters the trucks travel more than 900 million miles annually and more than 1700 drivers have more than 1 million consecutive accident free miles thats it we are celebrating we have a long history that has been important in the metropolitan area of Business Community<\/a> and the Civic Community<\/a> and we are proud to be represented to hear your testimony today and i appreciate you taking the time to be here its a pleasure to have you and i yelled back. Thank you congresswoman. Without objection the witnesses statements will be entered into the record and the written testimony will be made available for the record the subcommittee request to limit oral testimony at five minutes. You may proceed. Thank you. Would be remiss 18 years ago from when attacked i stand and not of the men and women in military what they do for us to ensure that we can be in this room to have this discussion is important. Good morning Ranking Member<\/a> and members of the distinguish subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to testify and also my congresswoman for our district i stand as her mayor and resident with all her service and the example she has set now the chair of the miamidade Transportation Planning<\/a> Organization Also<\/a> the proud mayor of the miami dolphins. I know. [laughter] i am longsuffering. I am here to tell you they are pathways. It isnt something that isnt the rail specifically in miamidade now going to Miami Gardens<\/a> every day. Getting his law degree it was the responsible of him getting to be mayor of his town and i stand before you because someone invested in meaningful and efficient Public Transportation<\/a> advocating we paint their score and create Dynamic Transportation<\/a> and to promote conservation. Now we are starting to address this in Miamidade County<\/a> like transportation is the instrument of Economic Development<\/a> and job creation vertical Miamidade County<\/a> traffic isnt just from the growth economically that to our development as a community. We have no way to build our way out of congestion to those alternatives of express lanes through the miamidade smart plan the Rapid Transit<\/a> for the future in the 95 express had been in operation for ten years and has reduced overall Traffic Congestion<\/a> to increase traffic flow with the miamidade region has the fourth largest population with the 12th ranked area for congestion through the use of the service that has been high the successful with 40 percent in the first two years implemented we plan to expand the Network Congress<\/a> support the Value Pricing Pilot Program<\/a> it with the leadership following us to pilot the test project forward to convert the hov lane and with the rankings on between ten and 12 by population which is actually remarkable not to say congestion is not a problem that that improves the commute times for all lanes including those that are significant that count has a longterm remedy for leading that congestion through the Rapid Transit<\/a> network the smart plan is the top priority to involve improvements of the Rapid Transit<\/a> corridors. Right now the south corridor is in the Development Funding<\/a> stage miamidade needed 100 million we are asking the f ta to commit locally now with local funding for the next 40 years to implement the projects but is not enough and we need your help. Federal support like smart in a process to offer certainteed to help move projects forward is a must in for example expansion of the metro whale was a Elementary School<\/a> but no mail has been developed all those kids right now deserve better we have to do better and faster we need a federal funding process acknowledges the need of a community to access opportunities within a reasonable timeframe so all the partners can do their parts. There needs to be free predefined funding structures to provide more as a solution to congestion. We can create a future and then create a future and do some great things. And to be expansive and grow mobile thank you for your support and leadership. Thank you very much. Now the director of Public Affairs<\/a>. Chairman and Ranking Member<\/a> and members of the subcommittee the assistant director the department of transportation thank you for the opportunity to appear today and i want to thank chairman defazio for his leadership on transportation issues and all he has done over three decades on this committee to make the transportation stronger so to be here talking because operating currently that could change in the coming years as the clamor for the public has led the legislators to direct to implement to show that the Portland Metro<\/a> region due to rapid population and in the two years the congestion increased 13 percent that was on top of a similar increase the previous two years and the highway function looks like a parking lot it is now rush afternoon and evening and thats at least seven hours every day of congestion residents and businesses increasingly are complaining about how congestion in portland poses a growing threat to our economy making it more costly to get goods to market. In response come in 2017 the largest transportation investment package was passed in the history known as keyboard again moving it funded new lanes on the highways to relieve the bottleneck but they recognize we cannot build our way out of congestion they also invested Intelligent Transportation<\/a> systems to make traffic flow more efficiently and significant investment for Transportation Options<\/a> this allows the major Transit Agency<\/a> to launch the biggest Service Expansion<\/a> never but the legislation recognizes with all these investments it would not be enough for what the public demands even with this package i cannot find the high priority projects including improvements thats why the legislature turns to tolls to raise revenues for improvements they directed the commission and governing body made up of the northsouth core doors and face the worst congestion day engage stakeholders to have a Engagement Process<\/a> and created a Stakeholder Advisory Committee<\/a> for local government officials and advocates for low income communities and to charge the recommendation and to address potential impacts after Detailed Analysis<\/a> they fell by the wayside but the Committee Work<\/a> two options that can reduce congestion to implement to the core of the region the American Trucking<\/a> Research Institute<\/a> shows the worst bottleneck in the nation to be implemented with the project between eye five and four oh five to pay for this and other improvements at door on the abernathy bridge it is two lanes in each direction but neither the legislature and then tolling can find some or all of that. In addition to the benefits looking at the areas we need to mitigate and find ways to avoid traffic on mobile streets and ensure tolling doesnt cause other issues to low income families who cannot afford tolls and that there is good Transit Service<\/a> as another option. We will report on these recommendations for involvement to answer many of these questions ongoing Public Engagement<\/a> is critical because we know to be successful we have to address the publics concerns. As a member of the American Association<\/a> state officials. Congresswoman and for the representation in kansas where we have 600 employees. Of one of the largest trucking companies. We have 300 he terminals nationwide and employ union and nonunion people. Each year we transport 20 million shipments with our 14,000 tractors and 45,000 trailers. Given that this is a National Truck<\/a> driving appreciation week, i would also like to offer a special thanks to our professional drivers and to all Truck Drivers<\/a> who work hard to deliver 71 of americas freight. While we are willing to pay our fair share for Infrastructure Improvement<\/a> we believe tolls are not the right solution, and in fact can be very harmful to our industry, our customers, and ultimately all consumers. Totales not oppose financing as new interstate highway lanes, nor do we oppose the conversion of hov lanes. Our concern is with the tolling of existing highways. Tolling has very high collection cost. A recent study found that converting all interstates and toll roads would cost more than 55 billion. While the cost of collection has come down with the introduction of transponders, costs can still exceed 10 . In some places they are much higher. On the ohio turnpike, . 19 out of every dollar is spent collecting tolls, while the pennsylvania turnpike collection costs exceed 20 . Costast this with the. 2 of collecting federal fuel taxes, up to 37 billion in 2017, to 75 million which went to collection. Compare this with the pennsylvania turnpike, which in 2016 spent more than 212 million to collect just over 1 billion. Clearly the waste that goes into collecting a toll is unacceptable when are more efficient alternatives are available. Our user fees should be allocated to build roads and bridges, not to pay excessive administrative fees, especially at a time when the American Society<\/a> of Civil Engineers<\/a> gives our roads a d grade, and our bridges a grade of c . Another significant problem is diversion of traffic to alternate route. Theyre likely to be laissezfaire not as well constructed as a tolled highway. It is claimed that one advantage of tolls is that it is a true user fee. Motorists pay to use the facility and the tolls cover the cost. In practice, this is not always the reality. Cases, federal law allows states to shift access tolling revenue to any title 23 eligible purpose. This results in toll payers bankrolling projects that they may not benefit from. In addition, because the vast majority of roads cant support tolls, a small minority of motorists are saddled with subsidization of a state surface transportation system, regardless of whether the toll payers benefit. Furthermore, states often look for opportunities to target motorists with little political power, such as nonstate residents, particularly trucks engaged in interstate commerce. Several states and cities are exploring the use of congestion pricing to manage Traffic Congestion<\/a>. This might be an effective tool for car drivers, however it is the customer who determines pickup and delivery times, often with penalties for late deliveries, so pricing is not an effective tool for influencing truck travel. Todays ecommerce derivative supply chain sets the timeline in motion and it will not be influenced by tolling, therefore pricing has very little impact on congestion calls. While ata flatly opposes holds on existing interstates and would prefer the elimination of all related federal tolling authorities we recognize there is an interest in allowing tolls with certain purposes, specifically with very expensive bridge and tunnel projects and congestion management. Ata has recommended several changes to federal tolling law that will protect the public from the types of abuses i have described while still allowing tolls to be used under some circumstances. For example, states should be required to disclose the likely impact of toll diversion on safety, congestion, and air quality. Ratedition, toll discrimination based on vehicle class or state of residence should be outlawed, and toll payers should not be able to subsidized projects they dont benefit from. Finally, it is important to note that tolls will not solve the most important challenge facing the subcommittee. The impending bankruptcy of the Highway Trust Fund<\/a>. Failure to address the shortfall will continue to induce states to consider bad options like tolls. Ata and nearly every organization that cares about surface transportation efficiency has proposed an increase in the fuel tax to address these needs, and we urge your support. Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to your questions. Hawkins. You, mr. Well hear next from timothy atax, whos a fellow texas a M Transportation Institute<\/a>. Thank you, madam chair. Ranking member davis, chairman de blasio, distinguished members of the subcommittee, i appreciate the invitation to speak today regarding americas mobility and connectivity problems and possible solutions. Dti is the most comprehensive Higher Education<\/a> affiliated Transportation Research<\/a> center in the United States<\/a>. We have worked in all 50 states and 51 countries, and last month we release the 24th edition of the National Congestion<\/a> estimate. You have heard today that the National Congestion<\/a> value of 166 billion i point out that doesnt include safety effects, environmental effects, business and deficiencies that come along with system, the value of the wasted time and fuel. So how do we address these issues . In a comprehensive analysis, you might look at five questions. What should we do . How much would it cost . How should we pay for it . What is the benefit of doing something . What is the cost of doing nothing . Far too often, we agree that all strategies should be considered, and that the solutions will cost a lot. We ask how we should pay for and we hearproblem, crickets. There arent enough conversations about how we would pay for the solutions. There arent enough information about the benefits, and there certainly isnt enough discussion about the high cost of doing nothing. Statelysis we did for the of texas projected that the total costs to sustain the 2010 condition of texass roads and highways would be 273 million over the next when he five years. The Economic Impact<\/a> of doing nothing was 989 million. That was the estimated effect of continuing to do the same things, same funding sources, same policies. It is clear that doing nothing is not free. Id like to summarize a few other points from my written testimony. Congestion problems will continue to challenge metropolitan regions of all sizes. This is not just a bigcity problem. Andprojects, programs, policies that each region uses to solve problems will be different. The is a reflection of creativity and diversity in our country and in our metropolitan regions. The strategies are going to be different from region to region, and will be different between a suburban area and the downtown area within the same metropolitan region. Just like a specific set of solution strategies are the result of Public Engagement<\/a> and technical design process, a level of congestion deemed unacceptable is also a local decision. One size doesnt fit all. For example, smaller urban areas are very likely going to expect higher average speeds on urban freeway during rush hour than a larger urban area. I point out, not all congestion is bad. Sometimes it is a reflection of a vibrant area. No congestion isnt always a good goal. But too much congestion makes it difficult to get from where you are to those vibrant activity centers. I point out that technology has a role. It could show commuters what the travel options are, it could help plan a trip, it could be allowing frequent bus riders have a free trip every so often. Several reasons for success with a difficult conversation, changing policies these are usually a combination of doing a good job, making sure the public understands you are doing a good job, having a clear plan with additional spending, committing to an effort that engages the public on determining which projects, programs, and Funding Forces<\/a> to pursue, and providing an accountable, transparent reporting of the schedules, budgets, and effects. These solutions work. Almost every Solution Works<\/a> in some situation, and almost every strategy will work in some places. Anyone who tells you there is a that could ben implemented everywhere is exaggerating the effect of their idea. Id like to acknowledge the support of the university of Transportation Centers<\/a> program for the reports. Weve been able to increase the number of urban areas analyzed, look at the economic effects of congestion on Freight Movements<\/a> and the effective transit on congestion levels. 2019 urban mobility report was sponsored by the Texas Department<\/a> of transportation as part of their benchmarking process, addressing congestion problems. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Theres more information on our website. Im happy to answer questions about the important task of helping americans get to their jobs, school, shops, health facilities, and free destinations to support a desirable quality of life. Lomax. K you, dr. Mark scribner, senior fellow, competitive enterprise institute. Chair norton, Ranking Member<\/a> davis, chair de blasio, members of the subcommittee, thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify before you today. Congestion is a persistent and growing problem facing americas road networks, as dr. Lomax just explained. The challenge facing policymakers is how to address it. Given the Traffic Congestion<\/a> is inherently a local phenomenon, the federal government has a limited set of tools to address it. Fortunately, and its role as a supporting partner to state and local transportation agencies, there are policy options available to members of congress to promote effective congestion mitigation and management. Not totter, these tend involve increasing federal highway spending, rather modernizing federal law to permit greater flexibility at the state and local level is the best way to address peak hour Traffic Congestion<\/a> that plagues Many American<\/a> metropolitan areas. Anobel laureate economist and seminal 1963 paper said of the status quote of urban Transportation Management<\/a> that in no other major area our pricing practices so irrational, so out of date, and so conducive to waste, unquote scarce roadway space was inefficiently allocated by nonmarket means, so that the practical result of unpriced urban roads was a degradation of the network. With traffic flows increasingly unstable, travel times would lengthen, and travel time productively would worsen. In attempting to address this due to a lack of pricing, policy makers would then make decisions to inefficiently expand physical roadway capacity, generally at great expense to society. This vicious cycle within repeat itself. To effectively address peak hour Traffic Congestion<\/a>, he proposed an electronic variable pricing scheme to promote stable traffic flows, similar to todays electronic transponder systems like easy pass. Variable road pricing is no generally viewed as the most effective means to address peak hour Traffic Congestion<\/a>. Policymakers select a desired average speed, then let rising prices do the rest. Physical capacity expansions in the absence of pricing can temporarily reduce congestions and improve traffic flows, but such improvements could be fleeting due to what economists call triple convergence. Under triple convergence, traffic flows on recently expanded roads trend toward their preexpansion state of congestion, albeit with greater traffic problems and the resulting problems. In that sense, while roadway expansions can certainly benefit travelers in a given region, in the absence of pricing, many of the potential benefits may be unrealized due to Persistent Network<\/a> congestion. Is likely the most promising nearterm vehicles for implementing road pricing. Historically, hov lanes that suffer from chronic underutilization. Converting hov lanes to hog lanes allows them to make better use of lane capacity while providing motorists traveling below occupancy requirements a choice to pay for more predictable travel times. Andver, existing exemptions pilot programs by themselves will not be able to address the related problems of growing Traffic Congestion<\/a> and aging highway infrastructure. Reconstruction needs of the interstate highway system alone are estimated to be more than 1 trillion over the next two decades. Addressess wishes to both the challenge and Traffic Congestion<\/a>, it must reconsider the general federal tolling prohibition. It should also seek to harness innovative financing practices made available through publicprivate partnerships, by expanding project eligibility and lifting the lifetime volume cap on private activity bonds. Public acceptance of congestion pricing is crucial to its success, at a time when urban surface streets are riddled with potholes and other infrastructure being neglected. The first revenue priority should be to improve the nations told roadways to a state of good repair. Adherence to this fairness will do much to address public concerns that additional row charges will simply amount to more wasteful Government Spending<\/a> to benefit politically favored constituencies. And pricing generally congestion pricing specifically will be valuable tools going forward. The primary federal concern should not be the implementation of any given pricing project, Rather Congress<\/a> should focus on removing outdated barriers to road pricing and give states the flexibility to use these tools to suit their needs. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the subcommittee. I welcome your questions. Thank you, mr. Scribner. I want to thank all of you for your valuable testimony today, and we are going to move now to member questions. Each member will have five minutes to ask questions. I begin by recognizing myself. Mr. Gilbert, i notice you had an illustration in your testimony. You said that the lanes on the right even people far away can see the lanes on the right are nontolled. Left are on the tolled. Is that right . Thats correct. So i see a lot of congestion on the right. Looks like people not willing to get into this lane. Is this only tolling that describes where people will go here . Thehere are toll lanes one on the left should be the toll lane. We know that overall, with regards to Miamidade County<\/a>, and has been successful in reducing congestion for both sides. So this picture does not this doesnt show reducing congestion. It shows people it shows lots here, myn the right, it looks as though people are saying no, thank you. The tolls are high . They can be high. And reducing congestion doesnt mean eliminating congestion. We still have bad congestion. It just got a little better with Rapid Transit<\/a> in the expressly. They use this other side. Can they use this road . Can they use this tollroad . Buses and if they pay the toll. Do they . They do. Perhaps it was just when this picture was taken. I assure you, the toll lane gets pretty crowded also. We just have a lot of people and traffic in miamidade. We know that the times have gotten better, but still, i think of the lost business hours, the lost production, the lost time spent with family. The tolls have helped but we need more help. People use the toll lanes, and they do get extensive. Mr. Hawkins, do you object to the use of toll lanes, and the weight you testified against tolls. I dont know if trucks pay tolls, or would pay tolls, on such a lane. What is your view . My company alone pays 25 million annually in tolls across the United States<\/a>, so certainly from a ceo perspective and an ata perspective, we dont support new tolling on interstate highways. Certain tolling can be appropriate to handle specific issues around the country in select cities, but overall, we dont feel like it is the solution. When i think about some of the opening comments, if we had been sitting in church this morning when charitable is the maids opening comments, i would have said amen when he mentioned that not since 1993 has congress increased our federal fuel tax to invest in our infrastructure. Just the nickel example that he gave, if we did that immediately, that would generate 340 billion in longterm predictable financing, that would address a lot of these issues and expand current roads. Mr. Hawkins, a lot of us up here would agree with you on that issue. I do want to ask a question of ms. Chang. Im very intrigued by the technologies and what they can do, and believe, frankly, that they will be necessary if we are going to move these congestion issues. How do we make sure they are deployed with equity considerations in mind . Interested whether you will have thought that through as a part of your recommendation. Yes, thank you very much. This is a top concern for our local community and policymakers as well. We have seen that the technology has come to a point where we can actually implement some of the policy responses on equity, on features and programs we have long wanted, that havent been able to truly deploy costs effectively. Examples would be the ability to more to strategically target those types of road users who we believe need to have discounts and exemptions, enabling them to have accounts using their transponders, which are the electronic detection systems in the vehicles that allow the trip to be measured. It will allow us to connect that to a particular household is there experiment to work being done on that . Any pilot work . Elsewhere, absolutely. Certainly on express lanes and roads that have been discussed in other places, and in the bay area region, yes. But we dont have it in San Francisco<\/a> just yet. We are studying it for the downtown zone. Thank you very much. I will move now to mr. Davis, who have recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you again to the witnesses for your testimony, for being here. Very important issue. As i said in my opening statement, congestion even in a district like mine, which is rural according to the tti report, in 2017, congestion in certain districts cost residents about 300 per year. In decatur, illinois, 2400 per year. Hours, ise, a couple chicago. Commuters there saw an average cost of 1300 in 2017. I have recently seen reports that the mayor of chicago is considering a congestion pricing scheme to address traffic. That may work in chicago, but im really not convinced it is going to work in the smaller cities that i represent. As we examine this issue of congestion, are there other ways besides congestion pricing schemes that we can use to address the problem . I will start with you, mr. Lomax. Strategies other than pricing . We are talking about using the whole toolbox, if you would. We have issues that ms. Chang we about, operations heard earlier about timing traffic signals, getting crash installed vehicles out of the way. These are basic policy approaches that everybody accepts. Things that should be working right now on urban areas exactly. They cut across regions of all sizes. Adding capacity where you see growth and have bottlenecks is a plus, and certainly part of the toolbox. That could be road capacity, transit capacity, more bike lanes, more pedestrian paths. It has to be tailored to the problem. Additionalhaving conversations with employers and employees about, can i have Flexible Work<\/a> hours, can i look at an ultimate commuting path, technology has a role. Smartphone apps help you plan a trip. Maybe we can have that Smart Phone App<\/a> push information to you based on your calendar that says, hey, you are just going to the office but you dont have anything chaotic, why dont you try the bus or carpooling . Then i can report back to you when you are eating breakfast. Ok. Anybody else . Any ideas . Want to take a crack at it . Want to say amen . Amen. Its a wonderful point when we think about illinois, my company employees. Ave 16,000 there are a couple hundred dollars annually for congestion, and chair norton mentioned in her high density district being over 1700. Averaged across the United States<\/a> it is about 1600 per person. If we go with the fuel tax that we talked about many times over, that hasnt been adjusted since 1983, we are talking about an annual impact of 100 per person. Versus think about rural density and then congestion pricing, the last thing on congestion pricing, everyone in this room and in the United States<\/a> has become accustomed to a pointandclick mentality. When you make a purchase you expect your doorbell to ring with that product very quickly, and that tolling is not going to impact what Transportation Companies<\/a> have to do to meet the expectations of their customer base. Ms. Chang . Yes, thank you for the question. I believe the built in solution i mentioned of revenues from congestion pricing are important to mention here. We only Better Options<\/a> as far as active transportation, Public Transit<\/a>, new express buses. These are all things revenues can help pay for. Vanpool incentives, employerbased programs, a whole host of Creative Solutions<\/a> on the public and private side. Developers are asking instead of building the parking, what if i invested in shuttles . What if i incentivized bike share . What if i partnered with the development down the street to share micro transit . Its a whole landscape of usingons and the idea of proceeds not only for Funding Direct<\/a> infrastructure but also incentives, to let people try these things out, and maybe also a new opportunity. I am glad you closed with incentives. The problem we have in federal government is a trust fund that doesnt keep up. We have to add money to it in many states. We may have a surplus in some trust funds, and user fees get used to fill other budget holes. Thats something that i think panelists and all of us in this committee ought to consider when we look at federal solutions. I yield back nothing but thanks again for the opportunity. Thank you. Mentionedswers, you Public Transit<\/a>. I know we dont have a Public Transit<\/a> witness. I dont want anyone to inc. That we think such that the alternative is outmoded. We think it ought to be used more than it is, and i can speak for a region that has metro. The fact that we dont have a witness doesnt mean we dont buses,and that transit, Rapid Transit<\/a> are still a part of the solution. Thank you, madam chair. Just in response to the Ranking Member<\/a>s comments, the federal Highway Trust Fund<\/a> money is not ever spent and never have spent other than transportation purposes. The diversion here is not a problem stop if you are concerned that we should increase federal revenues and states would then choose to diverge more of their funds to nontransportation purposes, we can certainly build in the maintenance and effort, and in terms of these optional tolling things, we shouldnt allow any diversion of funds or the flexibility that is being granted beyond the benefit of those users. There are ways to deal with that, but the bottom line is we need more investment. Tti, iax, i know appreciate your work. You in trying to justify people to move off of zero on funding. This tolling, im a little disturbed about all the obsession with tolling and congestion pricing, and i think since you are in texas, havent we seen a little bit of tolling fatigue in texas . Didnt we just pass a moratorium . Absolutely, the state legislature did, in response to some Public Comment<\/a> about were tired of tolling as the solution that is being enacted. Right. And it didnt solve problems. Yeah, itearly on, but hasnt solved the problem yet. We are afflicted with economic disparity, as was described. Times you said a couple can you give me a number of how high high was in tolled lanes . It depends on the time of day. It can be upwards of 17. How many miles is that . That would be the entire length about 10 miles. Ie question i have turned to mr. Brower in his testimony he talks about how lanes would provide enough congestion relief, and we are talking about variable pricing. Mile,talking 1. 70 a almost five dollars a mile in d. C. What kind of Public Acceptance<\/a> do you think that is going to have . And how high do you have to price it to get to your targets, to reduce congestion . Chairman, as we have done our initial analysis of tolling, we are at a point of hyper congestion on the portland system, where we have so many vehicles at rush hour that stem is breaking down, and it collapses. Consultants have told us that if we move a relatively small number of vehicles off the system at rush hour, it will flow much better, and we can see it increase greatly. We already see that effect in a number of places today, where throughput is better before rush hour then at. There are a lot of people optionally jumping into the curves and backed up traffic . They are not doing that because they have to get their kids to soccer at a certain time, not because they have to go to work at a certain time, or leave work at a certain time . It is just people who decide to go out and therefore they wont come anymore and they will change their schedule . You think theres enough people out there optionally, that dont have to go somewhere, when i wouldnt try to go anywhere . You think that will solve this . I think theres probably a relatively limited number of people who are in that situation, that if we can move a few of them off we did Public Opinion<\/a> research, and people saw as one of the best arguments in favor of tolling variable rates that there are some opportunities for people to change their schedule, to move by a different mode, or to telecommute. Some people may have that flexibility, the question is how many. We are very light on the panel and im disappointed we didnt get much into technology. There is one company in my district called connected signals. They have a very simple system ifre basically in the car, you are on the road that has synchronized lights, you are sometimes tempted to speed up to the next light or slow down, but this will tell you exactly where the sweet spot is where you can drive the whole road and never get a light. Did are estimating we lot more coordinated singers synchronization, to mitigate congestion stop again, i was in pittsburgh, smart traffic lights, sit there when no one is coming. Then when we ultimately get to you and we are a ways away driverless, or substantially driver assisted vehicles, and you dont have to stop and go so much. Estimates are there could be twice the throughput that we currently have. Think we are oddly heavy on pricing, because of the failure of the federal government to partner with local jurisdictions to hold up its end of the bargain for a National Transportation<\/a> system. It is in statebystate, i didnt bring my famous poster ending at the Oklahoma State<\/a> line until we have the eisenhower plan. To be a coordinated federal system, they need to go heavily into the 21st century and look at all the options before us. Thank you for holding this hearing. Announcer you can see this entire hearing on Traffic Congestion<\/a> by going to our website at cspan. Org. Just type in a keyword or phrase like Traffic Congestion<\/a> and you will find this hearing and other related hearings and discussions on the topic. That is available any time at cspan. Org. Announcer today on american eastern,v at 5 00 p. M. A discussion on shakespeares influence on u. S. Politics. At 6 00, on american artifacts, the Norman Rockwell<\/a> Museum Traveling Exhibit<\/a> on fdr and the four freedoms. Explore our nations passed on American History<\/a> tv, every weekend on cspan3. Announcer cspans campaign 2020 coverage continues monday when democratic president ial candidate senator Elizabeth Warren<\/a> gives a speech in new york citys Washington Square<\/a> park. We will have that life beginning at 7 00 p. M. Eastern. Liveat 9 00 p. M. Eastern, coverage as President Trump<\/a> speaks at a Campaign Rally<\/a> in rio rancho, new mexico. Watch both events live getting at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org, or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Announcer the House Oversight<\/a> and reform subcommittee on civil rights and Civil Liberties<\/a> held a hearing on the trump administrations decision to revoke medically deferred action for critically ill children. Children tollows defer deportation while they are getting medical treatment. This portion of the hearing is about an hour. For coming today. We are here to discuss the trump administrations decisions to deport critically ill children and their families from our country. 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