Cspan 2. Susan kay coles james, after many years, first as a scholar scholar and later as the trustee. You took over the reins in december of 2017, almost two years. What were your primary goals when you took the position . Mrs. James i have been given very specific instructions by our board. They were very interested in settling the organization down. Making sure that it had worldclass management. As well as taking the very important messages that we have from the Heritage Foundation to new audiences. Focused onhad been washington, d. C. And speaking to legislators and people within the administration. But we really felt like our conservative message needed a voice with some demographics that we had not been particularly active in. We needed to talk to women. We needed to talk to minorities. We needed to talk to the youth of this country. Our conservative values are so important that we cannot ignore those constituencies with our message we have to win them. Susan on your website, you talk about how 70 of your funding which is about how much . How much revenue . 90 million . Mrs. James you could say in that range and you would be safe. Almost70 comes from half a million, 500,000 individuals. It sounds like youre getting out of washington. Mrs. James we are, but we need to do more. I think one of the strengths of the Heritage Foundation is that we are not associated with a university. So we dont have that sort of pressure from the established university to push us in one direction or another. We receive our donations from a wide swath of the American People, so we can largely be independent. We are not looking to any one major donor to please. We want to be known for our scholarship, for our research, for our data, our analysis. So for that reason, i think it puts us in a very unique position to have that many people who are supporting the Heritage Foundation. Susan how large is the staff and how many scholars . Mrs. James north of 100 scholars. And these are some of the most incredible scholars, the research. Sometimes, when i sit in meetings at the Heritage Foundation and i listen to and its largely a very young staff as well, to see these young people, i tell them they are scary smart as they put the time, the energy, and the effort in. The staff is somewhere around 300. We go up and down, depending. So it is a Large Organization with a Large Mission with a lot to do in these days. Susan throughout our history, it has been one of a number of think tanks along the covergical spectrum that regularly, which is why we want to introduce you and your role. You talk about, and the materials talk about, a set of principles called true north. What are they . Mrs. James there is a lot of discussion within the conservative movement about what is a real conservative. The other thing i noticed, having been in the position for a little bit, is that i would get telephone calls not from people on the other side of the ideological spectrum, but very often for my own friends, people that i admire, respect, and have known for years. They say, i know this may go against what your scholars are saying or what your research is telling you or the data is saying, but this is such a good program, could you let it slide . Would you not oppose this, because it could do so much good. And i finally came to the conclusion that i needed a document that said, here are the principles upon which we stand. If you are going to call me and ask me to violate one of those principles, then i can save you a phone call, because its just not going to happen. So the true north principles are those things that we laid out that we think sort of shape what a true conservative is. And it would not be anything surprising. It would not be anything very complex. Of course we believe in limited government. Of course we believe in a Strong National defense. Of course we believe in the value, dignity, and sanctity of life. Of course we believe that we need to bring our debt under control. Of course we believe in Strong Families and religious liberty. So if anything you ask us to do that would violate those principles, the answer pretty much is going to be no. Susan on the budget, i am wondering, because it has been a strong position of heritage throughout its existence, but we learned last week from the Congressional Budget Office that the federal deficit next year is going to be close to 1 trillion. The public seems not to be expressing concern in the polls. Mrs. James well, we are. We are at the Heritage Foundation. We are very concerned about the debt we are leaving for generations ahead to pay. One of the nice things, and i want to make this distinction very early in our conversation, because a lot of people just never get it. We are not in arms of the Republican Party or the Trump Administration. This is a conservative Public Policy think tank. When we see policy that we do not agree with, we call it. We call it out. And we do. Yes, we did. In working with the president we are so grateful for so much of what he does, but when we disagree, we dont hesitate to say so. Susan what do you think is happening in this town that the public debt continues to rise at the rate it is . Mrs. James because i think our politicians, on both sides of the aisle, kick the can. Kick it down the road, leave it for future generations to deal with, and sometimes just dont have the political will to do the right thing. It takes us a real amount of courage in order to do that. The least we could do at the Heritage Foundation is hold their feet to the fire. Susan when speaking about the policies you agree with and disagree with, just asking in enteral, almost three years into it now, you served in the trump transition, i am wondering how you think, as someone who served ther two other president s, president is doing in leadership skills and policies . Mrs. James interesting question, and it is a very complex one. Because you do not have to like the president s personality. You dont have to like his choice of words. You dont even have to like him. But i can tell you that, from a policy perspective, in terms of pure conservative policy, he has actually done quite well. The Heritage Foundation puts out a mandate for leadership, where we list what conservative policy would look like under any administration. And, in his first few years in office, he has already completed 64 of our mandate for leadership. So take issue with him wherever you like in terms of personality, style, any of that, but if you want to look at some good, solid conservative policy that has been implemented, we are pleased when we look around this administration. Everybody is focused on the top of the pyramid, focused on the president. But when you look around this administration, at some of the various levels of government, there are true patriots who have gone in to actually serve in government. And the sustaining work of government is going on. And we are very pleased about what we see coming out of this administration, for the most part. Susan what about the Heritage Action . The political arm of the Heritage Foundation . What is your relationship . What can the two organizations do together . Mrs. James well, we are two separate organizations. We like to think of them in terms of someone who really is out there putting teeth behind the policy that we promote at Heritage Foundation. Just legally they are allowed to do some things in terms of lobbying and with a particular piece of legislation that we dont do. At the Heritage Foundation, we do the research, the data analysis, the collection of data. And at the Heritage Action for america, they are the ones who take that information, and, when it is implemented into a particular piece of legislation, they can actually go lobby for that legislation. We dont. Susan is it unusual for the major think tanks in washington to have a Political Organization such as this . Mrs. James not as unusual as you think. Or c4sthem have c3s very complex systems for how they work in this town. The Heritage Foundation is upfront about it. Susan since you have taken over the helm, you have been in the public eye over a couple of different issues. I wanted to get your perspective over some of them. First of all is the debate over baltimore. We are talking about the president and his tweets. You spoke out during the controversy that arose after his criticism for baltimore and its issues and its handling of race related and crime related issues . Why did you get involved . Mrs. James because i care. Because i care deeply about urban areas. I came from one. The reason that i am a conservative today is because i genuinely, honestly believe that the policies that we promote are the policies that will save those lives, that will change those lives in those urban areas, that will promote Human Flourishing. I am not a conservative for ideological reasons. By the way, my definition of a conservative is someone who has the audacity to believe what their grandmother taught them. Its not deep. Its not complicated. Its not even weird. So i think about the things that had a profound influence on my life. And i look at the conditions in those cities today, whether its baltimore, detroit, or my own hometown, richmond, virginia. And my heart breaks. Literally breaks. So i believe that we, as conservatives, have a compelling message for those areas, but we just have not done a good job in telling it. And i think that the far, far left has a compelling interest in painting us as uncaring, hateful, racist people who generally could give a hoot about urban areas. I, on the other hand, absolutely believe that a fully restore to those areas some of the basic principles that we know work, we could change peoples lives. And so that is why i spoke to it. Susan in one of the written pieces that you published around the time of the baltimore controversy, you talked about a family tragedy, your nieces death. Could you tell that story . Mrs. James absolutely. I hope i can get through it without tears. I had a niece that i loved dearly. Dearly. Beyond all measure. And i saw her become a victim of so much of what goes on in our urban areas today. I saw this young, bright kid, who was a superstar in my eyes, succumb to the urban culture and environment. Become addicted to opioids and eventually die of an overdose. And i literally was sitting in her funeral, and i was looking around, and i was seeing my family members weeping. I heard the preacher and other speakers talking about, you know enough is enough and we have got to change things in our communities. It was at that moment i said, i really wanted to stand up and say, are you mad enough yet . Are you angry enough yet to try Something Different . Because the definition of insanity is to keep trying the same things over and over again and not getting a different result. So, are you ready to listen . Are you ready to sit down at a table with anyone who brings solutions . Who brings answers . Who wants a change . Would you be willing to say, lets look at the institutions within our community that got us this far . So, should we look at the church and see the role that the church has always played in the black community and say, we want to do things that strengthen the church and religious liberty and not do things that weaken them . Are we willing to recognize the role of quality education and get mad enough that we say no more failure factories in the schools. We want schools that really do teach kids and prepare them for life. Are we mad enough yet to say living in these conditions are not acceptable, so if nobody is going to clean it up, were going to get up there and we will clean it up ourselves. In other words, what can we do today in case the calvary never shows up . In case the Government Programs never show up . That is not to diminish, in any way, the need, the desperate need, for some of those programs. But i was also very intrigued by how we, as a people, survived in a postcivil war era during reconstruction. And i figured out that if we survived slavery and the civil war, and we were left basically, in the south especially, not just with note Government Programs, but an antagonistic government. How did we survive that and produce the harlem renaissance . Black wall street, historically black colleges and universities . Because we did that with no help. And i am so intrigued by the strength and the dignity of my people and my community. That i want to let them know that i dont care if they never show up with a government program, we got this. We can do this. And i think that kind of hope and inspiration has been lost. And people are in despair and discouraged. So i got involved because i wanted to sort of reignite that sense of hope and optimism. And yes, we need those desperately needed Government Programs. But if they dont show up, i am not going to sit here and wait. There are things we can do today. Susan how old was your niece when she passed . Mrs. James she was in her early 20s. Susan and is there a series of programs you think would have made a difference . Mrs. James in her life . Susan it sounds like she had a good family. Mrs. James oh, yeah. She absolutely had a good Family Network and support. But sometimes those streets can be so overwhelming it does not matter what kind of family you come from. They can overtake you. We need to run the drug dealers out of our communities. We need to say no more. No more. You cant peddle this stuff. I happen to believe, as someone who is staunchly prolife but being prolife is something far more than just being against an abortion procedure. For me, being prolife means recognizing the value, the dignity, and the sanctity of human life. And that is to be protected at all stages of human life. So you cannot be a drug dealer pushing poison on other human beings and recognize the value, dignity, and sanctity of human life. I think we need to return to the culture where we believe in the dignity of life. I think it will influence everything from not just abortion, it will influence how we treat our neighbors. It will influence the dignity that you give to the tollbooth collector as you are going through. And it will have a culture that says we do not push poison on each other. Susan another time you have recently been in the news is appointment to google. Heres a clip from fox news were you talked about this experience. Lets watch. [video clip] mrs. James they blame those of us on the right. I said, you know . I just want the people in Silicon Valley and people on the far, far left to live up to their own bumper stickers. They are the ones that said mean people suck. I never seen anything meaner, nastier, more vile than the hatred that came towards me at that time. And i was disappointed in the google leadership who really thought they were doing the right thing to disband. I really think they should have stood up to the mob rule. And it was not a good thing to capitulate to that sort of thinking. Susan the clip from fox news nationally. So what happened at google . Mrs. James so sad. So terribly sad. First of all, i think it was a complete misunderstanding by the employees. They were not asking me to come in and give advice on what direction they ought to go or to judge a particular product. I thought what they were doing was a very Good Business decision. They put together a Diverse Group of individuals who had different perspectives to say we want to know we are considering these options, and we want to stress test them with people. What would people who think like you think about this . So i thought that was a very interesting question to ask, and something that any Good Business would want to know. But what i really saw was a missed opportunity. I am so distressed at the tone of the debate, not just over google i mean just this weekend, i had one of my alltime Favorite Movie stars i love bette midler. On theid a short piece death of david coke koch, who was a flap who was a philanthropist. And think, that in our nation today, you could indepth say, life well lived, you did this for the arts and you did this, and that would be ok. And i had to wake up to bette midler saying f kay james. What are we doing . If we, as a nation, cannot demonstrate to the world what it looks like to live in a pluralistic society, with people who have a broad range of views and can have those discussions and do it in a civil way, then i dont think we can say anything. We have got to figure out how to do civil discourse in this country. That the employees at google need to learn that. Dear god, they called me a white racist. They just assumed they did not even do their research to figure out who kay james is. And that is sad. I want to do my part. I do not want to engage in that part of debate or that kind of rhetoric. I do believe you can have deeply fundamentally different beliefs, and respect individuals who have a different perspective and engage in civil discourse. Susan third issue is over the leadership of heritage. You made reference to the fact that the board asked you to stabilize it. It was back in the news after two years. Recently with a book american carnage, where he wrote about the change of leadership. What do you want the people out in the country who follow heritage and think tanks to know about that leadership change . And what was behind it . Mrs. James that they should totally ignore everything in that book. I just refuse to participate in that. Jim and i talked after that, and we agreed that we, together, were not going to give it any credence. I have said it before, i will say it again jim was, is, and will always be a personal hero of mine. I have great admiration and respect for him. And i refuse to let someone try to tarnish that relationship in order to sell some books. Susan what about heritages management needed stabilization . Mrs.