And wee very concerned about it. Host joining us here with questioning in washington, simone, senior politics reporter with roll call, and josh, who is National Journals ace political editor. Thanks for joining in. I do want to begin with news this sunday, the tweet bit president late yesterday regarding his property in miami, the doral, his decision to scrub plans to host the g7 in miami. He wrote the following i thought i was doing something very good for our country by using Trump National doral in miami for hosting the g7 leaders. It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to Miami International airport, has tremendous ballrooms, meeting rooms, and each delegation would essentially have its own 50 to 750unit building, which is set up better than any of the alternative. I announce i would be willing to do it at no profit for legally permissible at zero cost to the u. S. A. , but as usual, the hostile media and the democratic partners went crazy, and so this announcement from the president , therefore, based on both media and democratic crazed and irrational hostility, we will no longer consider Trump National doral miami as the host site for the g7 in 2020. We will begin the search for another site, including the possibility of camp david, immediately. Thank you. Exclamation mark. Sarah longwell, your reaction . Sarah i mean, its good that he is no longer holding the event at the doral, but, of course, first he managed to give himself what is millions of dollars of free publicity for one of his hotels by, you know, making sure we all knew how good ballrooms were. But this is the kind of behavior from the president that weve been seeing from the beginning. You know, he doesnt seem to be taking the presidency seriously. You know, he treats it as though it is from start to finish an opportunity for him to build his brand, build his wealth, and for people who love this country, for republicans who love this party, to see forget trump. Trump is who he is. But to see republicans going out and saying that that was ok, to say that for marco rubio to say, well, as a floridians, selfishly im very glad were going to host this at the doral. Republicans know this kind of thing is wrong. You know, its unconstitutional. Its against he will on the umet clause. Thnts the kind of behavior that we want to see out of a republican president , and republicans should be condemning this kind of thing. And thats really the reason that we started, because we just didnt see many republicans standing up for the values that we know they at least iced to hold. Host let me turn to the senior politics reporter for roll call. Sarah, your group is spending a lot of money on television timentses. Tell us, what is your strategy there . Whos your audience . Who are you trying to convince . Sarah you know, theres a group of republicans that we feel like are the kind of people who will stand up and do the right thing when push comes to shove. Even though ill admit theres a lot of evidence to the contrary. And, yes, weve launched a Million Dollar campaign targeted at about 15 house members and 12 senate 12 members of the senate, in order to encourage them to speak out, specifically on the issue of ukraine, where the president is accused of withholding funds or a quid pro quo in order to pressure a vulnerable ally, you know, from in order to pressure a vulnerable ally to investigate his political opponent. Thats wrong. That is foreign interference in an american election. And so our goal is to get republicans to simply say that, to say its wrong, whether its doral or whether its foreign interference, were trying to encourage republicans to say this is not ok. Because for too long the behavior that weve seen from republicans is to just kind of either duck the questions, hey, i havent read the report, hey, i havent read the whistleblower testimony, or theyve actively supported this type of thifpblgt i mean, Mick Mulvaney saying this week, yeah, there was a quid pro quo, get over it, this is what happens all the time. This is not what republicans believe. It is genuinely not. And so our goal is to really try to find the people who might Say Something and give them to encourage them to speak out, northbound one, and number two, we really want to focus on educating their quit a about the what the president did. One of the things we see all the time, there was a poll that came out where only 40 of republicans knew that the president had told ukraine to investigate the bidens. Even though he admitted it. And so part of it is really just educating republicans. I mean, we do most of our advertising on fox news or online targeted at republicans, because we see a big part of our mission at giving these republicans the information them might not otherwise be getting. Simone im curious, when it comes to republican lawmakers, who do you think has the spoast credibility to speak out . A lot of folks in districts youve advertised in, theyre retiring. We saw most recently a florida representative rooney expressing legitimate concerns about the president and potentially leaving the door open to supporting impeachment. Then he come out last night and says hes not running for reelection. What kind of credibility do these republicans have to speak to their constituents about this issue, if theyre not running . Sarah well, they absolutely still have credibility, and whats incredibly sad i mean, its funny, rooney wasnt even on the list of people we were targeting. That was quite heartening to see theres republicans we werent necessarily thinking about who might stand up and Say Something. But it is a real shame that he feels like in order to say what he believes, he has to retire. And that seems to be, you know, what i mean, you see so many republicans in texas retiring. It seems like people, to feel like they can say what they actually believe, they feel like they can no longer continue their role in congress, which is a huge problem. But theres a lot of people that i think look i still think those people have credibility, but also, theres a number of people in the senate who have tremendous credibility to speak out on this, and you know, im eyes right now are on mitt romney, because mitt romney, in terms quhaff hes been out there saying, it seems like he really is ready to step up into this kind of elder statesman role and call things out for what they are. And i think because he was the leader and the standardbearer of the Republican Party for quite some time, does he have the credibility to go to some of the other senators, like susan collins, like ben sass, like Lamar Alexander, and say, look, enough is enough. It is our responsibility, it is our role in this moment to say that this is not ok, to make sure that all the facts come out in this investigation, and to stand up for the future of the party. I mean, thats what thats why mitt romney is so important, because this is a person whos been a republican for lot longer than donald trump has been a republican. He cares about the future of the party regardless of whether or not hes going to be part of it. Host hes also getting that at a lot of criticism, senator romney that is, within the Republican Party, often accused of being a rhino and getting some really sharp blowback from supporters of the president. Sarah yeah, i mean, there was i actually think it was a crazy advertisement from club for growth accusing him of being a democratic asset. But look, this is just this is the environment were in, where a republican who tries to stand up to the president either thinks they have to retire or they get smeared by other republicans. Trump attacks them on twitter. And frankly, thats why theres not a lot of incentive to speak out, because when you do, lot of the democrats say, well, its too little, too late. Theres not really a tremendous constituency for doing the right thing. And i would say that again is sort of why we wanted to, you know, why we started the organization and why we want to spend money to support people who are willing to speak out and run advertisements to explain to their constituency why its the right thing and why its so important to do that. Host josh is the politics he had for for national journal. Josh . Josh a luded to theres not much of a constituency within the Republican Party to do the right thing in your mind, and certainly 80 to 90 of republicans have pretty much been with President Trump since the beginning of his administration. Have you seen in the last couple of weeks, with the developments in ukraine, with the withdrawal from syria abruptly, with the news about doral and then the change in mind under republican pressure, do you see any polling or any developments that make you think the republican voting base has changed in the view of the president . Sarah the voting base. Thats a good question. I thought where you were going to go is do you see any sort of chinks in the armor among republican legislators, and the answer is yes, i do. I think youve seen a lot of republicans rebuking the president , whether it was on doral, syria. I mean, lot of republicans are actively heartbroken about whats happening in syria, and just from a rank political standpoint, its bad timing for the president , because he needs all the republicans, you know, lining up to support him on this impeachment inquiry, and instead of doing things that would encourage them to kind of stick with him, hes, you know, pulling out of syria, this incredibly irresponsible way. Hes doing these selfenrichment things with doral that embarrasses republicans. Theres a Washington Post story yesterday that jells with what i hear from republicans hinted scenes, where they feel like hes taking their support for granted, and hes really sort of pushing them to the most embarrassing places possible in terms of defending him. But your question about rankandfile republicans, you know, the Republican Party is interesting, because trump has really changed the contours of the Republican Party. But i would say in a very crude breakdown of republicans, theres about 60 that sort of view themselves as trump supporting primarily, and then theres sort of another 40 that view themselves as supporting the party primarily. And i think among that 40 , where theyre kind of republicans first as opposed to kind of in that cult of trump, those are the ones who get really you know, they like their judges. They like their tax cuts. They like that he sort of calls out some of the democratic excesses. But these are also the people who do not like the withdrawal from syria, who are very skeptical about the trade war with china, who do see some of the behavior, like quid pro quo for a political investigation, that makes them concerned. And i think one of the nabs youve seen moving the most is actually among independents. So a lot of those republicans are sort of rightleaning independents. Those are a lot of the people you saw break in 2018 and go ascommed vote for democrats and vote for democrats and allow them to flip 40 seats. Theres always going to be this base of republican support for trump that, again, he shoots someone on fifth avenue, theyll find an excuse for why he did it, but theres another sort of cohort of republicans that at some point could say enough is enough. The struggle is always with that group, you know, what are the democrats doing . Who is their nominee . You know, what do they see happening on the democrats side that gives them a place to go . Because, you know, ultimately a lot of times republicans are doing this, which is worse. But trump is really, really testing that right now. Josh what do you think the odds are of a impeachment trial and getting the 20 republican senators necessary to remove him from office . As you allude, there are republicans privately who have concerns about some of the actions that the president has taken, but when they sandole they listen to the republicans in their districts or states, that supply side of the folks who elect them are pretty much with trump no matter what. How would you assess the odds or the chance of any senate trial getting enough republicans to break with the president . Sarah i think thats hard to game out right now, because its really going to come down to what are the facts on the ground. Republicans were with nixon until they werent, you know . And what happened was something came out that was incontrovertible evidence that nixon had done the thing that he was accused of. And so republicans, they actually didnt impeach him. You know, Barry Goldwater walked in with, you know, the Republican Leadership and said, look its over, were not going to defend you anymore. And so, you know, if you have to game out right this second, do i think its incredibly difficult to think that 20 republican senators are going break with the president . Yeah, it seems unlikely, but first of all, i think that i think some will. I dont think they will get no republican votes. And i think that, you know, theres a lot more that could potentially come out. I mean, whatever Rudy Giuliani was doing seems very sketchy, and youve got all of these ambassadors coming in now that clearly are providing evidence that i think republicans are probably very nervous about. Again, Mick Mulvaney saying yes, there was a quid pro quo, if that continues, i do think at some point, you know, despite all of the sunk costs into trump, republicans are going to want to maintain some shred of credibility and may just say, you know what, maybe its time for president mike pence. Its just all gone too far. But clearly were not there yet. So its going to be a matter of what else comes out in the course of this investigation. Josh you mentioned mitt romneys name as a leading advocate for your position, but can you name a few other senators that you think will be willing to hear your side, would be willing possibly to break with the president if there was a trial that takes place . Sarah yeah, i think Lisa Murkowski definitely somebody to look at. Sheems the one person who voted sheets one person who voted against brett kavanaugh. I would look at all of the republicans who voted against the president s Emergency Declaration to take money and build the wall. Lamar alexanders retiring. Johnny isaac son, the senator, is retiring. Theres a few of those people. I mean, Lamar Alexander is an incredibly serious statesman. I could see him looking at this and just saying, look, the last thing i do in my Senate Career is not going to be to vote to exonerate a president who has clearly done something wrong. I remain hopeful every day about ben sass. He has broken my heart time and time again. He voted hes a tremendous constitutional conservative, and he voted for that national emergency, which ive really never been able to understand. But i know that hes a good person and that he cares about the rule of law and he cares about the constitution. So i think that the difference between the Impeachment Vote and this is something i think people forget. Its one thing for these republicans to have to when theyre talking to the press or whatever, kind of brush these things aside. This will be an up or down vote that they will have to take. So they know that they will be on the record saying, yeah, its ok that he obstructed justice. Its ok that he abused his power and invited foreign interference into our election. It will be an up and down vote on that. So i think that theres people keep asking me. You know, whats the overunder . Maybe two republican senators. I would put my money, even if i had to game it out right now, closer to five or six. Simone where does Vice President pence stand on the rule of and law how tied up in this administration he . Is he someone you would support as a republican president . Sarah well, i think that in this moment, it would be absolutely better if mike pence were president than donald trump. That being said, i have been extremely disappointed in how mike pence has behaved. You know, if you go back and look at some of the tape of all republicans, but particularly of mike pence, talking about values, talking about the rule of larbgs talking about the clintons, and talking about how balls the clinton foundation, he has lots of statements where he says, you know, its not ok for foreign governments to participate in american politics. So for him to now sort of say get over it, it doesnt matter, its wildly disappointing. And i think, you know, this is going to be the question for a lot of republicans who have kind of abandoned all of our principles and proven their ethics to be quite situational in an effort to support the president. I think the question is, when all of this is over, when trump is gone, you know, its hard to just go back and say, no, no, no, really, were the party of values. No, really, were the party of the rule of law. People have sort of gambled their credibility on this president , and it will be very hard to exert any kind of moral credibility when we have to rein in the democrats on executive power. And basic, nobody has been more disappointing than mike pence on that. Host joining us on cspan radio here on newsmakers, our guest is Sarah Longwell, executive director of the organization republicans for the rule of law. Joining us in the questioning is simone and well turn back to josh, who covers politics for the national journal. Josh weve got a president ial race coming up. There are three, at least three republicans running in a primary against President Trump. Is it possible your group will endorse any one of those primary challengesers . And why not go is there any possibility you kind of pursue an alternative from to have trump on the independent ticket or someone who may have a better chance if democrats nominate someone to the left, trump is renominated, someone who may have a chance to win on a thirdparty candidacy . Sarah yeah, were certainly not going to endorse donald trump, and right now we sort of endorse those three republican challengers as a package and think that it is great that there are republicans out there , two former governors, a former congressman, who said im not just going to stand by and let this happen, im going to try to do something about that. I do think that theres a real chance that we see an independent