What will that process look like for most of the country . A harvard study out this week provides a roadmap. We talked to Danielle Allen, one of the authors of that report. Later, new research from a leading vaccine expert from the mayo clinic later in the program. You can join us. Lines are open. 202 7488000 in the eastern or central time zone. In the mountain or pacific time zone, 202 7488001. And if you are a medical professional, 202 7488002. We begin as we always do. The numbers courtesy of Johns Hopkins university. Now nearly 2. 8 million confirmed cases around the world in 185 countries and regions, with nearly 196,000 deaths. The death toll in this country over 51,000, with more than 900,000 cases in all 50 states. Joining us is congressman Jodey Arrington, he reference the 19th district in texas. Thank you for being with us. On greetings from the food, fuel, and cyber capital of the world. God bless and thanks for having me on the call. Host let me begin with the president signing the 484 billion stimulus plan. Now there is talk from democrats of 1 trillion to 2 trillion more. Will that happen . Thet i know that what president signed to help Small Businesses get back on their feet, in terms of this bridge loan we are calling the paycheck protection program, which is absolutely necessary. Necessary to compensate these folks for their losses, but also as a lifeline to survive and the their employees on payroll so they dont end up on the unemployment lines. That will be critical in our Recovery Efforts longterm. In terms of the next phase of this, we have money that hasnt even been distributed yet on the health care side, on the state and local fund side, we recapitalized the Small Business bridge loans. I think we have to see how this plays out, whats working, where it is being absorbed, where the needs are, and make those adjustments and feel those gaps as we move forward. Im not in any rush to put another funding package. I think weve got to make sure the spending is appropriate, adequate, that we dont have any more unnecessary spending, because we are now we have tripled our trillion dollar deficit, and added to a 23 trillion debt. If we survive this pandemic crisis, which we will, and if we can come back in short order and stave off a longterm rec ession or depression, that is all great and good, but there is always the looming sovereign debt crisis because of us being overleveraged. Someone will have to pay that. Generally, it is a deferred tax on the next in a ration of americans. Thats what we have to look at, as well. Host the number approaching 25 trillion, could you see a tax hike to pay for the stimulus plan . No, prior to covid19, we had the best economy we have had in recent history. Your listeners know the numbers on unemployment. It seems like a distant past now, because we have millions of americans now on unemployment, and the economy is turned upside down. We have to put forcing in thesms in place upcoming packages we pass, whatever is being contemplated, that forces all members of congress, house and senate, to deal with the issue of debt and deficit. Need to put provisions in place that are forcing mechanisms so we can come up with some compromised solution. It wont be all republican or all democrat, but if we dont come together and find a way to start walking that debt and deficit back, we are pushing off the next crisis for the next generation. You cannot print money and borrow money to bail out of that crisis. Host you support the president s decision to withhold funding for the world health organization, but a number of organizations that line up with republicans, including the chamber of commerce, saying in a pandemic it is a big mistake. Im sympathetic to that, but im more sympathetic to americans who have the responsibility, the lions share of cost in an organization that has not shown, not only the american people, but the World Community well by going along in china,icit manner with not releasing numbers, not allowing access to the data, and not being transparent. It has hurt the entire world in trying to respond to this pandemic. No telling what the cost would had chinahad we not try and cover this up, and the worktor general of the who and coordination with china. We could have staved off a lot of costs. Not just money, but human life. I think until they take serious action to investigate, the director general should resign or they should fire him. I think we should have a system where we are all paying into this who, just like nato and the u. N. , based on population. In the case of who, it should be based on risk, as well. The risk that every country presents. They are either not doing a good job, or they are doing a good job. The should be factored into membership of an organization like this. Thats not how it is run today. If america is not going to hold people accountable and get their attention, it will never change and we will just perpetuate status quo. Host you represent the 19th district in texas. What do you see among your constituents . How is covid19 taking shape in your area . Guest like other communities and regions across the country, it is really locked. Communities and our , our kids have come home from school. There is often a joint effort to onlinee their education and with one or both parents, people are scared of the unknown. Treatment and we dont have prevention in the form of a vaccine. Those unknowns make people fearful. At this point, like a lot of communities, we are anxious to get back to some sense of normalcy. Aware 80 ofe well folks that contract covid do not uch symptoms,as m or any symptoms. That presents a problem if you dont know it and they carry it into the mix of vulnerable people. It is also something i think people can manage. Every community is different. I think we can all use good judgment. I think local leaders and state leaders can let the conditions dictate the height and aggression of the prakashan necessary. I think thats what you will see in the coming weeks. Our folks are ready to get back to work, into the marketplace, some sense of normalcy as we phase in this recovery effort. Host for you personally and your family, i know from our producer, it is friday night, so that is game night for your family. Whats on the agenda . Movie they are watching a right now, i will join them shortly. My family has been great. Im sure other members of congress feel the same, but this has been 24 7 mode, and it is the right mode to be in. Our family is hurting, our constituents are hurting. We have no alternative less than to protect our country, but also rebound and respond in a way ,hat doesnt cost us greater where the cure was greater than the disease. That is nuanced, it is not so straightforward all the time. Do, speaking of gametime, it doesnt get any better than this when it comes to serving your country and communities. So we are all hands on deck, and we will get through this. We will look back and say it was unprecedented, in terms of the crisis, but we had an unprecedented response. We came together as a country and did the things necessary, and we made it through that tough time, just like we havein times past. Host enjoy the movie with your family. Congressman Jodey Arrington joining us from the 19th congressional district, congressman from texas. Thank you for your time. Guest god bless to your listeners. We will be back. Roadmap to called a pandemic resilience. One of the authors is Danielle Allen. She joins us from boston. She serves as the director for center of ethics. Thank you for being with us. Guest thank you for having me. Host let me begin with the parameters of this study. In order to reopen the u. S. Economy, it will take a lot of testing. I guest will guest it will take a lot of testing. Its a highly Infectious Disease. A very significant percentage of people are asymptomatic, or presymptomatic carriers. If you want to control the disease, you need tools. So far, we have one tool for controlling the disease at scale, that is collective stayathome orders. We have seen the economic devastation caused by that particular tool. We actually need another tool in our toolkit. Tracing, whenct somebody tests positive, you find the people they have been in contact with who may have been exposed to the virus, and you can break the chain of transmission that way. We have to passout a significant scale to have control of the disease to get that critical measure very focused on below one. Orders. W, stayathome if we lift stayathome orders, we will have the disease circulating again. Tracing, plusct when people are covid positive, spending time in isolation, and supported isolation. If they need job protection, Material Support because they are a lowwage worker, you want to make it a doable thing so people who are infected take themselves out of circulation, even if they dont have symptoms. Thats what we need to keep the deceleration going, even after things opened up. Host enough testing for what . Have an incredibly ambitious goal. We showed the number of tests you will need to have a tool to control the disease and put you on a downward path to deceleration. Our goal is to figure out how often you have to test, how many tests you have done, in order to be down. Need 5ument is we would million tests a day by june. Then all the way up in july at 20 million tests. Either tests for the presence of the virus, not talking about antibody tests. Theres a lot of issue about Antibody Testing and sensitivity. The other tests dont have the same issue. They are reliable, we can use them for the virus. The first number is what it would take for us to make sure the entire essential workforce, healthcare workers, Health Safety workers, and the population they interact with, homeless people, people in nursing homes, everybody in the hospital or health space, all of them have access to testing at their level. Then tracing contact from that. That would be 5 million tests a day for the whole country. It is doable. Theres a lot of specifics to get to that level. At this point, it has converged. There is broad agreement to scale up testing, support, and isolation. The question is the level, the number. At this point, the debate is between a number of 5 million tests a week, or a day. That is where the debate is. Testing, tracing, support, isolation, there is convergence. Host part of the testing has become a lot easier with nasal swabs, even saliva that can determine whether or not you have covid19, and the results can be determined quickly. Guest yes. Theres a lot of innovation in the testing space. We need a lot more investment in innovation to speed that up. The most important piece was the saliva test was approved. That has begun to be in use. The advantage is a person can self administer it. Put it in a test tube and nobody has to be dressed in ppe to do the test. Thats one of the complexities of testing that is taken out. In addition, you can put a viral the activator in the test two. What the staff will let you produce is not a biohazard. Currently with nasal swab testing, it is an actual biohazard. Transporting it to the lab, you have to take extra precautions without causing infections. The other one is a much simpler testing method. Anything that makes the testing simpler speeds up the timeline. You have another machine that can give you a test for at point of care in 15 minutes. That means they can only do four tests an hour. If you are trying to scale up, you need labs that are high input, in the order of hundreds of thousands of test, even one million, a day. It has been super useful and valuable. Rural locations. We should accelerate development of distribution of those. We need highthroughput capacity to get the level of tests we need. Host our guest is the director of the center for ethics at harvard university. We will get your phone calls in a moment. 202 7488002 in the eastern half of the country. Out west, 202 7488001. And also, asking about part of the study. This is part of a headline from cnbc that basically says physical distancing or social distancing may need to remain in place for two years until 2022. Can you explain . Guest the goal of our roadmap is to reduce the need for other control mechanisms. But if you open up and have no control other than stayathome orders, you will see a resurgence of the virus, a second wave, and we will have more stayathome orders. That happened from adaptive response. Havecommends policymakers another application of stayathome orders. For testing, training, isolation, is the replacement of the stayathome orders. Its important to distinguish between different kinds of social distancing. Collective stayathome orders, a National Quarantine we have seen as the strongest, most aggressive tool. But things like Wearing Masks and being in line for the grocery store, or people that have those kind of things, they are also essential to social distancing. We probably are going to continue to need those kinds of techniques of social distancing for the next two years. Indeed, it is probably all the case at every store, every business, every school will have to rethink basic ways of doing business to make sure we have smaller groups of people together and people have more physical space and distance from each other. It will be a big help with all of that. In areas of high prevalence, it will be important we become accustomed to it. Host the report Available Online at ethics. Harvard. Edu. Vicki from austin texas, you are on. Caller thank you for taking my call. I do understand the importance of testing, as far as containing cluster outbreaks. But on an individual level, as far as my decision to get back into the open marketplace, it is really the masks im concerned about. I understand the instructions about wearing cloth face coverings, but the instructions from the cdc are very vague on what the quality needs to be. Some people are producing masks that are one ply, two ply, have filters, some are trying to use hippa filters, some are using coffee filters. I understand the primary focus for these masks is to keep us from producing droplets that might infect others. For me to get back out into the economy, the social marketplace, i would need to wear a mask i felt was protecting me. Im wondering if you can go into the best quality of mask we can make for ourselves right now, what the guidelines would be, what kind of fabric, how many lawyers of fabric how many leaders of fabric how many layers of fabric. Guest you got the basic picture right, there is a benefit to Wearing Masks. It keeps people who are infectious and dont know it from passing it on to others. That is the real benefit of wearing a mask. Au are asking how to have sense of safety with regards to you not becoming infected. I cant give you an answer that involves making masks ourselves. The answer is testing. What you really need for comfort is to know that when you are going into the grocery store, workers have been regularly tested. You need to know if you have an appointment at the doctors office, a routine part of health care is people are regularly tested. That is how we will have collective safety, by knowing in the context of spread being more likely, we really have integrated routine testing regimes identifying the positive cases, making sure we get treatment, and we are breaking the train of transmission. To protect ourselves and think about our own individual risk, and what actions we can take to protect ourselves. That is an understandable, recognizable approach. The hard thing with an Infectious Disease is you cant solve it individually. The whole point of infection is it is about spread, connection, and transmission. So we need a shared solution. We have to solve this together. The way we do that is committing as communities to preventing isolation. That will make our communities safe. That way we also know that if you have been excused exposed to somebody, we will get a warning, and we will be able to get tested to figure out whether or not we have a situation we have to deal with. It really is something we have to do together. Reaching the level of safety we all desire. Host we have a line from medical professionals. Joining us is dr. Doshi. What is your area of specialty . I am a primary care. New, inonavirus is very terms of its arrival in the u. S. And several parts of the world. The swab test take minutes to three days, there is a symptomatic variable of three days. Exposed,at have been it still doesnt resolve the of a of the infectiousness symptomatic patient and nonsymptomatic patient. Policy indesign a order for hospital clinic systems to operate . Which includes airliners, life in general. Thank you. What that question gets to the heart of his the innovation that we have and that we need to have the kinds of tests that permit us to achieve a sense of safety for everybody. Provide tests will not that sense of safety. Tests dontthose pick up early infection, they come late. They are really a backwards look. They can help us with new surveillance, figuring out how the disease is spreading, and looking at prevalence, thats where the tests are really close. But to test for the virus, the good news is people have actually sped up the time on that. There are people able to return results in a 24 hour window. The thing we need to do is clone their methods, the labs doing it at the fast rate. We have their methodology cloned and distributed over the country. Thats how we can do that. In health care, you might imagine at the end of your shift, you can get tests and you have the results before the start of your next shift. Then you can get on a cycle where people get the information fast enough to go back to work knowing they are infection free. On the require building testing innovation that has happened. Thats where we all benefit from coordination. Some can do a lot. They should do a lot. There are some elements for which we do need the federal government. That is something to focus on. Host our guest is Danielle Allen joining us from boston. Shes the director of the center for ethics at harvard university. Also the former chair of the Mellon Foundation board and the past chair of the political board. Marie is joining us from north carolina. Thanks for waiting. I recently took a saliva was for dna, ancestry, that so simple. It looks like it would really be a simple test for people to take. Would it be easy . Guest that is it. Is the innovation pathway. It was approved for rutgers last week. It is the pathway we need to build out to upscale. And all the ancestry diagnosis, thats the methodology they used. Host who produced these tests . Guest Rutgers Univ