Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On Police Use Of Force Community Policing 20240712

Leaders of Law Enforcement organizations, including the Police Chiefs from around the nation. Good afternoon. So, this is the order today, if its ok with everybody. I will give an Opening Statement and i have got a short video. With a few minutes to add to it. Senators feinstein, booker harris, if you would like to make Opening Statements. Is that ok . And we have some people that will do introducing to the panels. We will get to that later. So thank you for coming. We are here for a reason. Without the death of mr. Floyd we would not be here. A lot has happened in the last couple of weeks. My goal is trying to define the problem, offer solutions, and talk to each other, not past each other. And i have a short video that is tough to watch. I talked to senator booker about it, the first couple of minutes, but it ends up on a very positive note. We will see if it will go from really hard to watch to something thats a little more acceptable for the country. If you could roll the video. Is it working . Can we consider it an act of god and not air it . Could be. Well . What do we expect to see . You are expecting to see a video, but you are not. So i will just talk. The video is about mr. Floyd and his very painful death, its about the gentleman who was jogging in georgia and got shot. And it was about the recent atlanta case. It was about two episodes of a cop pulling a woman out of a burning car and a Police Officer administering cpr to a very young, monthold infant. And it winds up with the cost the cops and protesters taking a knee together and trying to work through their problems. If we could wind up there as a country, that would be a good thing. Senator scott is going to introduce the republican approach to reforming the police. To reforming the police. I dont know. I will let the Committee Members speak for themselves but i dont see a whole lot of energy here to defund the police. I think there is a lot of effort to reform the police. Senator scott will introduce that package t that President Trump introduced through executive order, some ideas, and i complement him for doing that. Rather than laundry listing what is in all of these packages, the house passed a fairly broad policing reform bill. I would like the committee to sit down and reconcile these packages and come up with something in common. So what brings us here . Have learned over the years, but particularly recently, that every black man in america apparently feels threatened when they are stopped and the cops. That it is not 99 , it is 100 . I have talked to a lot of africanamerican pastors at home. And in their churches, when a young man is able to drive are or old enough to be considered a young man, they have to talk about what to do if you are stopped by the police. You keep your hands on the wheel and you dont reach for the dash you say yes, sir, or no, sir. Entioned he has been stopped five or six times here on capitol hill. I have never been stopped. And when i see a cop behind me the first thing i think about is what can i do wrong and can i talk myself out of this ticket . There is literally no fear. And i would not like to live in a country where i am afraid to be stopped. So hopefully, we can all understand that problem and fix it. But it is a problem. Virtually every black man in america feels like getting feels like if they get stopped by the cost, it is a tremendous experience. We want Police Officers to protect themselves and protect us, but mr. Floyd died for a 20 bill. You have seen the video, he was in handcuffs and was not threatening anybody. How do you go from that to dead is just amazing. The atlanta thing is a bit more difficult. A pretty good in direction that went bad quickly. Shooting somebody should be the last resort. If you are dead, you are dead. If the guy gets away, you could catch him again, but the idea of using lethal force has to be revisited. Being a cop is no easy thing. You make a lot of snap decisions where your life is threatened, that of the community, but we have to realize that taking another human beings life while in Police Custody is something that we should be better at in 2020 than we are. Defund the police, not much for that. Reforming the police a lot. Better Community Police practicing, what areas of the country have gotten it more right than others. I want to ask our first panel when we get a chance here if the person approaching you is an africanamerican, officer, if it is different than white officer. Than a white officer. If the person approaching you is a woman, if that is a different experience if it is a man. It seems to me that one of the things we should be trying to do is have more africanamericans people of color, and women in policing to make the police force look more like the community they are policing. To make the police force look more like the community they are policing. Chokeholds. Apparently the president came out with a call to abolish chokeholds. The house did that. Seems to me there has come a time for us to move on from chokeholds. Better hiring and better firing. We will have more input from Police Officers. Hey complaint can be lodged against any of us. We have a system here where we dispose of those complaints privately. I have had like seven or eight complaints filed against me at the South Carolina Bar Association for Different Things i said during the Kavanaugh Hearing and others. I think they are a bunch of bs. Bottom line, that is a private endeavor. The question about filing complaints against Police Officers, it would be so easy to ruin somebys life as a cop and try to intimidate the police force, there has got to be away to understand that when the complaints are legitimate, to take action. We have to be honest with ourselves and ask the question is it too hard fire a cup . Cop . And when you have documented instances of acting outside of the law with too much force without the right attitude to be a cup, how does that stay in your file to make sure the town next door knows about it . Qualified immunity. Has it become time to revisit that . Most cops dont want to go into the business thinking they could lose their house if they make a mistake, but there is something we can do with td immunity that would put more accountability into the agencies that run Police Departments. One thing i can tell you, if you are subject to being sued, you act differently than if you were not. Weont want to deter people from going into Law Enforcement but we also want a sense of accountability. And if extending the qualified immunity fosters a sense of it not being your problem. Lets take a look at it. More accountability, more information, a National Registry about how many actually die in Police Custody. A National Registry about the instances abusing lethal force while in custody. The time has come to create a system to combat the broken system. His leasing is policing in america systematically a racist enterprise . I would like to think not because i do believe more cops more good than bad, but when every black man in america leaves that getting stopped by the cops is a traumatic experience, something happened somehow, somewhere, and i would like a systematic approach to problems that continue to happen over and over again. So there are a lot of ideas coming from different corners of the political spectrum. The question for the committee is it possible to find Common Ground . The answer is obviously yes, if we want to. As chairman. I would like to. Senator feinstein. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding disappointment. On may 25 to may minneapolis Police Officer knelt on the neck of george floyd for almost nine minutes. Mr. Floyd repeatedly said i cannot breathe. Bystanders back to the officer to stop but he continued to choke mr. Floyd until his body went limp, his life extinguished. Now, what was the unforgivable crime that led an0 officer to kill this unarmed, 46yearold man . He was suspected of using a counterfeit 20 bill to buy groceries during a global pandemic. Personally, this is beyond anything i can imagine and i hope it is beyond anything you can imagine. George floyd is not the first unarmed black man or woman to be killed by police. The names are etched into this countrys consciousness. Rhianna taylor, and emergency medical worker shot eight times i Louisville Police while asleep in her home. Eric garner, choked to death by an nypd officer for selling cigarettes. , killed after being taken into custody by Baltimore Police for possessing a knife. Walter scott, shot in the back by North Charleston police after being stopped for a bad break late. 8stephan clark, killed by Sacramento Police in his grandmothers backyard for breaking windows. And Michael Brown shot six times by Ferguson Police while his hands were raised in the air. And just last weekend, Atlanta Police were called to respond to reports of a young man asleep in his car and blocking a Fast Food Restaurant drivethrough. Even though the young man moved his car to a nearby space when asked by the p entered ended when brooks was shot in the back twice as he ran away. I dont know how anyone can read these stories or see the videos and not conclude that something is radically wrong in this country and we have got to move to stop this epidemic of deadly force against black americans. I remember well the call to action in 2014 after Michael Brown was shot in ferguson missouri. President obama convened a task force on 21st Century Policing. That task force provided a roadmap to reform Law Enforcement. Unfortunately the Task Force Recommendations have not been followed, and instead, we have been largely abandoned under President Trumps watch. For example on august, 2017, the Trump Administration lifted president obamas ban on the transfer of certain military equipment to Police Departments. That ban was put in place by president obama, consistent with the Task Force Findings that the use of military style injury and right here escalated tensions between police and the communities they served. The Trump Administration has similarly abandoned the use of pattern or practice investigations to identify or remedy systemic problems within Police Departments. Congress gave the department of Justice Authority to conduct patterns or practice investigation following the horrific Police Beating of rodney king and my home state of california. Since then, most administrations have use that tool effectively. The obama administration, for example, opened 25 investigations into possible illegal patterns and practices within Law Enforcement agencies. Several of these resulted in consent decrees that set out specific reforms zide shift police culture. By contrast, according to public reporting, the Trump Administration has opened narrow pattern and practice investigation that focuses on a single unit of the Springfield Police department in massachusetts. Remarkably, in the wake of George Floyds death, attorney general barr has refused tottern and practice investigation into the Minneapolis Police department. How can that be . Anyone who has seen the video of George Floyds last nine minutes of life has seen that none of the officers at the seed objected or intervened seen scene objected or intervened as the man pleaded for his life. Enough is enough. Last week, senator booker and harris introduced the justice in police act. That is the bill that would permit many of the recommendations of the task force on 21st Century Policing and it would require real accountability for police use of force. The committee will take that bill seriously and we can hold hearings, process them, and perhaps make some progress. This is not a simple bill. It is quite controversial. It bans the use of choke holds and chokeholds by Law Enforcement officers. It prohibits the use of racial profiling. Its ending Police Targeting criminalization on the race on the basis of race or National Origin it is the determination history of officers so that potential employers would be aware of an officers past misconduct. It gives subpoena authority over the Justice Department to conduct these pattern investigations which would ensure investigators could obtain all the information they need to conduct thorough investigations of secure misconduct and eliminates qualified immunity so that Police Officers are held accountable for their conduct. These are difficult issues, but they must be addressed and i really want to congratulate both of my colleagues for putting this bill together. Its long overdue, mr. Chairman, and i look forwardover the coming weeks. So thank you senator booker and harris, as well as representatives bass and nadler for your leadership on the issue. Chairman, you and i spoke in the days after George Floyds killing. I remember your say that this death was horrific. That said both of us were appalled at what we saw. You also said this reason hearing and more to follow will expose policing and discrimination. I was so delighted what i heard you say that and i am delighted you are beginning to carry that out, which is what interpret this hearing to be. I trust this wil word. I hope we will be able to have attorney general barr before us. He has not agreed to come before us thus far. But among other things the attorney general needs to explain why the Justice Department appears to have abandonedice or practice pattern or practice cases and specifically, why the department has declined a broader investigation into Police Misconduct within the Police Department following George Floyds killing. Mr. Chairman, we have much to do. I dont think we can leave these happenings without taking action and i trust we will do just that. Thank you. It is my goal to reconcile these proposals to the extent possible and come up with solutions. Mr. Booker. Thank you mr. Chairman, for the courtesy of allowing me an Opening Statement and thank you for your thoughtful comments. I would also like to thank the Ranking Member for thoughtful comments as well. In departing for micro paired remarks, i just want to say what does it say about a nation when two senators from the same state have had wildly different experiences with Law Enforcement right here . In the last few weeks, i have had conversations with black folks who work for the senate, people on both sides of the aisle, who all have their shares of stories of traumatizing experiences, a feeling like they were one sudden move one moment from experiencing violence. The challenge is that this has been nothing new. I think if we took the time to listen to each other, you would see that we have a culture where so many parents have to teach their children to be afraid in order to be secure. I heard comments on the floor today about one of my colleagues who listens to their staffers with the kids were told by their parents to keep their seats because they will be accused of having stolen things. I know from my own experience. The challenge is this is often unfair, it is unacceptable, it is wrong. But when it explodes like we see it, people capture on videotape the kind of violence that you were traumatized by, the violence he would show. I am grateful for senator harris , who has been my partner over the last few weeks. She and i have worked together with Congressional Black Caucus leaders and ultimately chairman nadler to put together a deal called the justice in policing act. We put it together in the wake of george floyd. In the wake of not just black men, but black women sleeping in their home. The deaths that have brought to attention much of this and indeed in all 50 states literally thousands of republicans and democrats have been calling for an end, a meaningful reform aired and yet even in the days since kemal and i put together our work with other members of the Senate Continue to see things caught on videotape. As was said before rishaad brooks shot in the back. So this is very clear. We we are talking about is a nation with two different justice systems, two different experiences. If you stop and top with black people who work here. There are very personal stories, including senator tim scott. The unmitigated killing of unarmed black people in america by Law Enforcement not to mention the disparate treatment is something we must do something about. We have a choice right now. I am about 51 years old, and since my birth so many studies, so any commissions from the Carter Commission all the way up to the 21st Century Task Force on policing and nothing has changed. Cities from ferguson to minneapolis have done a lot of reform and as the data has shown, a lot of these things have been done before but we still see the killing of unarmed africanamericans. So, we really have a choice to make and every day that we dont puts more and more of our fel danger not just in death of the kind of treatments we would neverace. We have a choice before us and so this idearepublican bill and a democratic bill, we need to look beyond that and simply understand that the things that are in the bill actually have wild popularity amongst republicans. You hear Republican Leaders from george bushs first address to congress which said we should stop racially profiling americans. That is not something radical. Its the idea that we are equal under the law. Things like no knock warrants, we have failed this country by setting standards for practicing policing that support our common values. Democrats overwhelmingly support banning these practices. They would save lives. Breonna taylor would be alive today, erica garner could be alive today. But is not just a standard. Accountability is a way of measuring progress. We dont even collect data on how any people are shot by police. I ran a Police Department. I learned the hard th without data, there cannot be accountability. You got to be fast to be wide receiver. If you have no way of measuring that what is standard . Activists, local leaders, we should all have transparency into policing. Without that, no accountability. And finally, you said it of what you said, mr. Chairman. Unless there are real consequences, if you failed to meet standards whether lawsuit or criminal action changing standards in criminal courts is difficult if not impossible to meet the standards aired thats just common sense standards in criminal court, if they are difficult if not impossible to meet, the standards arent there. Thats just common sense. So i worry in this moment i really do, that we are going to repeat history. That this will be groundhog day. That here we are again in a nightmare not a comedy. We hear talks of socalled reform packages, more studies more nibbling around the edges as opposed to acting boldly and doing things we know will hold Police Officers accountable for their conduct, to set meaningful standards and allow us to enforce a law. It is not an over dramatization to say that the stakes are high. Will we meet this moment in history and do Something Real or will we find ourselves back here three years from now with mass protests in the streets from people of all different backgrounds mending change demanding change . The truth is, i have faith in us in the country. I believe there i do not have faith we will get there on time. I believe there is going to be a time in america when we ban human practices like chokeholds. I believe there will we do not Treat Mental Health issues with police and prison. There will be a time where a black woman is safe to sleep in her own bed or a young man reaching for his cell phone will not be shot dead. Will be a time when black parents like mine do not have to fear for the safety of their child who just got her drivers license. I believe there will be a time when we understand Public Safety is not about simply the number of police on our streets, but about how the number of people who no longer live in poverty or safety to regard water do not have to deal with addiction or prison but have to get treatment. There will be a time in this country, but the mark of the moral universe is long. We have to be the arc vendors. The question is the time now. How many people have to die in our streets to get us there . How many more people have to suffer the indignities that our own colleagues have talked about in the set . I believe the time should be now to make bold change, or we will be back here again. These changes will happen, but they should not happen someday. This should be the day, the time so that we can ensure this nightmare and in america. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, could i have one minute, please . Yes, you can. I want to put out how iowa is not waiting around for congress to act and an eightday session since the death of mr. Floyd. Governor reynolds signed a bill that was unanimously passed by both houses. And why i am somewhat familiar with this is my grandson is speaker of the iowa house, but it creates, brings additional account of them of the iowas Law Enforcement officers by creating stronger sections on the use of chokeholds by Law Enforcement officers, improvement Law Enforcement decertification processes to ensure those who have been fired or resigned after serious this conduct do not work, strict thing the authority of the attorney general to prosecute officers whose actions salt in the death of another, and establishing an antibias and deescalation training requirement for officers. I yield. Thank you. Senator harris. Senator harris thank you for holding this hearing and for the sincerity with which you have approached the subject, and i thank all our colleagues for what i believe be a meaningful discussion with a real commitment to do the work of this committee, which is to do the work of supporting the concept of justice in america wh equal under the law, meaning all people will be treated equally by our laws, and we will enforce our laws equally. I wantcommittee. I want to thanks senator booker for the courage that you always have to speak truths and your willingness to tell the personal stories. It takes a lot of courage to do that. And you do that not because it is easy, but because you know it needs to be done, and i appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, a people from age, gender, race, and religion have been coming together or weeks to protest four weeks to protest injustice against laxton america. We have a duty as senators to be aware of our countrys history of systemic racism and a responsibility to take serious actions toward achieving americas founding ideal of equal justice under law. When we say that america has a history of systemic racism, we mean that from slavery, jim crow laws lynchings, and policing our institutions have done violence to black americans. And it has caused black americans to be treated as less than human across time, place and institution. Lets be clear about what it would mean then to transform our transfer transform our society. When we truly achieve the ideal of getting rid of racism, will not have an unarmed batman, george floyd die by a Police Officer kneeling on his neck for almost eight minutes and 48 seconds, exactly. And we achieve that ideal it will not mean we will have a woman, bereonna taylor, shot and killed by Police Officers what she was asleep in her own bed. We will not have an unarmed bbllack man lynched while going for a run in his neighbor hured and as George Floyds brother said last week before his powerful testimony when we eliminate systemic racism, it will be clear to everyone that the life of a black man is worth more than an allegedly counterfeit 20 bill. Mr. Chairman, if there is a movement being led by might appear from the outside to have little in common, who are marching together to demand an end to the black blood that is staining the sidewalks of our country. They are marching together to move us closer and closer at least justice. And that gives me hope. It truly gives me hope. When i look at who is out there and the commonality of progress unity that they are exhibiting, but we have to recognize that to deal with systemic inequity in our system is not just a policing issue. Inequities are also deeply rooted in our education system, and our housing system, in our workforces, and Health Care Delivery system, and more. And we must fully value black life, invest in black communities, and root out inequity wherever it lives. It is wrong and it is wrong, and it has motivated too much of municipal budgets and the thinking of policymakers and has distracted them from what truly use of resources to achieve safety in communities, which is to invest in that health of those communities, and healthy. So we must ask our mayors and local leaders to reexamine their priorities and budgets. We must ask why so much money is being spent to militarize the police while two thirds of Public School teachers in America Today are coming out of their own back pockets to help pay for School Supplies in our Public Schools. It is time for us to realize this is not just a moment, but a movement. This committee and our entire federal holding the Police Accountable when they break the rules and break the law. And we must be on the right side of history as a committee. We can start to make the demands of this movement by passing the justice and policing act, and here are specific ways. We need a National Usage standard, a use of force standard. Today most officers around the country, the standard is to ask if they use Excessive Force, the standard is to ask, was that use of force reasonable . It would be a much more fair and just question to ask is was that use of force necessary . We need a national use of force standard. Second, as a former prosecutor, i know independent investigations into Police Misconduct are imperative. No matter how well intentioned a District Attorney or a states attorney, when called upon to investigate the misconduct of a Police Officer that works in the department they closely work with every day, there will at the very least be an appearance of conflict, if not actual conflict. To do justice in our country is to actually do justice and to have the confidence of the public that there is an appearance of justice. These values are equal. Third, we need truth in transparency. Cities and states have to report police use of force incidents to the federal government. And i was attorney general of california, i created an initiative we named open justice, first of its can open Data Initiative to get people access to information about arrests, bookings, and deaths in custody. The public has a right to know what hhappening in their communities. And the public can then use that data to help hold us accountable requi that they are always presenting anecdotal information fueled by personal experiences when the data is available, but we as government possess it. It is not the and double do, to share that data which we as government possess with the public, so they can grade and judge us appropriately . And lastly, we need to expand pattern and practice investigations into Police Department and gives state General Authority to bring these investigations. As attorney general of capital for new, i activated several pattern and practice investigations into Police Departments, and as senator feinstein mentioned, Congress Gave the department of justice to conduct these investigations in the aftermath of ronnie kings killing rodney kings beating by Police Officers. This is designed to root out problems in police the partners and other the Trump Administration, these investigations have sl they need to start these investigations again with an additional tool of subpoena power. And on thi point, attorney general barr should be here today. He should be here to answer for his shameful record, investigating civil Rights Violations in Police Departments. During the Trump Administration, justice has confirmed only one pattern and practice investigation compared to 25 brought during the obama administration. He should be here to answer for reportedly calling for the forcible removal of peaceful demonstrators who were gathered in front of the white house to protest the murder of george floyd, and he should be here to answer for his lack of leadership at this critical moment in our nations history nations history. Today President Trump issued and executive order calling for data sharing on officers who use Excessive Force and funding to help police font to the homeless and mentally ill. Le be clear, this is not enough. It does not meet this moment. This is not enough. There are thousands of people marching in the streets. Ates demanding need for change. People are to many action. They are not marching in the streets for watereddown not hold any officers accountable, and theres nothing about what the president announced today that would hold Police Officers who break the rules and break the law accountable. The only way to meaningfully access Police Brutality is to brands of reforms, including reforms to hold bad officers accountable for misconduct. The justice in policing act is certainly not the end, but the beginning of establishing National Standards and accountability for Police Departments. And at a certain point, we have seen enough, we have had enough commissions. We have studied these issues. We have convened opinion leaders. We have talked about these in private conversations and in public conversations. Now is time to act. The people are demanding it. And they have a right to know that their government, a Representative Government of the people, will respond to their needs for us as a country to live up to our ideals. So in closing, i will just say that we know that we have these words across the street at the United States Supreme Court etched into that beautiful marble building equal justice under law, but we have to show america what it means and that it truly means equal justice for all. We have to show america that, and passing the justice in policing act would be a step toward realizing that goal, because, colleagues, please understand, please understand. Tonight and every night there are black parents in america and grandparents who will be on their knees praying that their sons and daughters will be safe. Every night in america. We have to take this on, embracing what no doubt are difficult and uncomfortable situations and uncomfortable and an uncomfortable history about our country. But we must take this on, understanding this is a righteous demand that we fix this system act. I think you, my colleagues. Thank you, thank you both. Our first panel dr. Philip goth, franklin thomas, professor and policing equity. He will be by video. Professor doug logan president and professor of urban ministry. The honorable carter, who i will let senator klobuchar introduce in a minute. Mr. Attorney from the Merritt Law Firm from philadelphia. Ms. Guptqa, president of the Leadership Council on civil and human rights. Senator klobuchar, would you like to say anything . Senator klobuchar i would. Thank you, senator feinstein, for this hearing. And thank you to my friends senator booker, senator harris, for leading this important bill. For i get to introducing the mayor, i want to know that this murder happened in this state and george floyd should be alive today, but he is not. His life evaporated before our eyes, before the eyes of the world. Our nation has been left in pain. My state has been left in pain grieving and demanding justice. This is not a about it. If we are silent, we are complicit. If we stand there and demand dominance and waived bibles, we are no better than monsters. But if we act and we actually do something and get this bill passed well, then, we are lawmakers, and that would be the legacy of george floyd. So Melvin Carter is the mayor of the first africanamerican mayor of st. Paul, minnesota. He represents the best of our state, and like so many black leaders across the country, he has rose to this occasion. Is a fourthgeneration st. Paul resident and comes from a family of Public Service. His dad was on the first black officers in the st. Paul Police Department where he served for 28 years, and his mom was the first black elected as a county commissioner in the state of minnesota. So it is quite a legacy he is living up to. After graduating from st. Paul Public Schools and theflorida a and m university and Humphrey School of Public Affairs he served as a City Council Member at a very young age and ultimately became vice chair of the council. During his tenure as mayor, he has given special attention to punk safety reform, working to change when and how officers use force and directing more money to strengthening communities as a way to promote Public Safety. As we look to and work with local leaders to address the systemic racism that chases the lives of too many people of the mayor is a valuable voice, i am proud to have him as a friend and am pleased to have him here with the committee. You will leave us all. He is not here. Is he available . Yes, thank you, good afternoon. It is my honor to appear before the committee by tes of force and community relations. You have my written statement, but i am a Behavioral Scientist by training. I am the professor of policing equity at John Jay College of criminal justice, but i am best known and police form circles for my work as cofounder and ceo for the center for policing equity. My testimony today is in that capacity. The center for policing efforts equity conducts a database, which holds the largest data for Police Behavior and work. It estimates not just Racial Disparities but those despaired is for which Law Enforcement arsenals will and can therefore change. Before i speak about pleasing, i am compelled to say what we have seen on the streets of the United States the recent weeks has been larger than the coming of george floyd, as far as collective and righteous outrage. We are seen on the streets is a past due notice for the unpaid debts owed to black people for 400plus years. The response, if it is not proportional to that debt, we will pay it with interest again and again and again. Turning to the complex issue of reform, i want to say on what science is about my sweet theres no doubt that black and hispanic and native people have more contact with Law Enforcement than might be. There is agreement where there are fewer Public Service treatment, Mental Health clinics, parks, lawenforcement has more contact with residwe know about how race shapes contact with police from the science. This comes to us from two methods of studies, hit rate analysis and regression analysis. Yield analyses reveals the percentage of that return hundred been such as drugs or guns. If the percentage is lower for one group than another, the inference among scientists is officers are stopping too many from the group who are lower order there is a threshold of suspicion with that group. Of bias but not conclusive. The analysis reveals lower rates for blacks than whites. The other analysis protects how much Police Activity one can expect aced on demographics. In this way it is possible to assess whether crime or poverty or other neighborhood factors are sufficient to explain Racial Disparities we observe in outcomes. This literature demonstrates neither the crime nor poverty are enough to ask lane Racial Disparities, and in some geographic areas, it is not sufficient to explain Racial Disparities rate there is evidence of racial bias who are contacted by police and targeted for police force. Clearly not all the disparities we see are from Police Policy behavior alone. I want to clarify recent attempts to claim racial myth have been roundly denounced by social scientists and there is a statement signed by more than 500 social scientists denouncing the publics i will be happy to show to this body. Given this understanding of bias and policing, what are we to do . The most recent debate between institutional reform and funding the police, and while there is no Research Literature on abolishing police, there is reasonably many in black when these are not aligned with this vision. Research reveals black communities do not favor eliminating Law Enforcement. They mostly want less bias and deadly Law Enforcement is important to note given the degree to which p opinion is evolving, this may change and quickly. Still to agree that a path forward involves police edges to invest in black movies, that must be led by evidence, evidence on what works and evidence about where cities can receive a higher return on their investment in community empowerment. As i m Center Supports the framework. And we will work with members of this body to make sure that its proposals are enacted. This framework injuries more support than civil rights advocates and legislators monitored any partners in Law Enforcement have increased their support to the eight major pillars of this rumor, with many eight pillars. While we hope that number will grow, i would like to mention two we need to wrap it up, ok. Go ahead. I will say the ban on chokeholds is not just blood locks. The registry offers broad support, and i home embers of the body would take an opportunity to deliver something to the american people. Thank you very much for the time. Thank, sir, very much. Professor logan . Professor logan [no audio] get your button there. Professor logan i misted up. My name is dr. Doug logan jr. I serve as the president of a seminary and a former pastor in camden, new jersey. I now serve as a pastor in richmond. I have asked to talk policing and the use of force. I come to you today not only as a black man but also as a christian clergyman who works closely with a mayor, my friend in camden, as i do not want to use the word define, but to retool the Police Department for a more infective policing and a more Effective Police force in camden in 2012 to 2014. I lived in the innercity most of my life. Many americans would not drive through my camden lock after dark or my patterson block in north jersey after dark. I speak as someone who is not only observe great injustice experienced it firsthand because of the color of my skin. In spite of that, i speak today not only as someone who would be filled with rage but filled with hope. I am hopeful that we can recover some Common Ground in this country, starting with a renewed understanding of justice. It must be a vision of justice and equitable treatment of all people who are worthy of dignity, respect, and fairness, having been created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and it must be a vision of justice built on a commitment of all people and their government to do onto others as you would have them do unto you. Anything less than this will not provide us with the Common Ground needed to strive for justice in more than name only, yet i am significantly hopeful. Im a preacher, so i got three points. I pray that we would listen, i pray that we would learn and then i pray after listening and learning that we would legislate. I pray that we would listen to the cries, shouts, the screams of black people, brown people, and many white people that are screaming on the streets for a new day and a new way and real justice and policies to be put in place. I am hope we can create and reconnect such a vision of justice our shared dreams for society that promises liberty and justice for all. It is clear from the cries in the streets that many of our nations citizens do not feel they have equal access to these realities. In view of americas long history of Racial Injustice that seems undoubtedly true. As a man who is grown up under the difficult circumstances of innercity america, i lived among what some called the urban poor. I have been taught that racism is but one of the many problems facing impoverished communities, and that everything is blamed on racism has failed to consider the complexities of the human soul. Yet i am hopeful. I am hopeful that we can restore the proper view of the police in our society and those who have been and us will be held accountable to god, the government, and the people. Theres is an entrusted th eirs is an entrusted stewardship, yet without molesting and enacting injustice in the press. The police is a necessary server to uphold justice in the midst of the societal injustices and should be an agent uploading the good of all people. Toward this end, let us consider the best statistical data never it is available to fairly evaluate the rates of Police Misconduct against minorities. But also listen to the stories of the people from the minority communities, also, who almost invariably report statistically qualify will instances and bias. The facts on the block are not often recorded in any data. The cries of grandma, grandpa and my friends and my cousins that we talk about in the barbershop often do not make it to the cisco data two statistical data. After listening and learning, then we would legislate. We will listen to the cries, of pain, the if we listen to the people and learn from our cities, i believe we can have comprehensive improvements. I pray for the day for my three biracial sons and my puerto rican grandkids that as i was given the talk and told the hold wheelwright and do whatever you have to do to get home, my father do whatever he you have to do to get home. The best i would racist police, but you talk about come in 2020, during a virus and riots that the country that i love him up with wise and laws that made them safer. Thank you. Quick thank you very much. Are you there, mayor . Yes i am. Centers ciaran smith and members of the committee. I am honored to testify today ands port of [indiscernible] escaped racial bias in the deep south. My grandfather was a navy veteran who played his trumpet for four u. S. Veterans. He was denied the right to his own day identity as all black men [indiscernible] George Floyds murder is so personal because [indiscernible] no amount of money can that fact. My father, melvin junior, served 28 years in private practice. Because of that, my friends and i grew up surrounded by officers from our own neighborhood whoknew us by name and were invested in the future and solve problems in a way no one else could. [indiscernible] Law Enforcement will fair, are more likely to cooperate with officers. If any of us mistrust police all of us are [indiscernible] nearly 200 billion, the highest imprisonment rate on the planet by three decades of study publics americans feel less safe every year. [indiscernwe deserve an investment to reduce the number and we deserve to know that our officers will protect and serve all of us. We have rewritten policies terminated by officers. We invented social workers to respond [indiscernible] justice for nonviolent offenders. Last year, we produced in favor of investment in new social support and a public hea approach. [indiscernible] shielded from accountability reinstated, and hired by agents. Relationship is damaged again and again. With the justice and policing act of 2020, we could establish a nass journal Standard National standard. We could invest in programs and prevent officers from searching apartments and avoid the cambodian sunday strong message around the world that they will no longer accept. I know you will be pressured but our work to restore confidence is a lifeline for officers. When they go too far remember [indiscernible] eight minutes and 46 seconds. To prevent that from happening [indiscernible] just as we grew up wanting to know [indiscernible] our children and grandchildren will call us out for our actions now. This to mans action. Eric gardner [indiscernible] and so many others, george floyd commanded the attention of the world because of the on acceptable position. It will not stop until we address under which attached to Many Americans live. Under which too Many Americans live. Thank you. Senator graham and other members of this committee. We live in the Deadliest Police culture in the modern world. Our legal system is as ravenous as it is racist. Our Law Enforcement community racks of thousands of deaths each year. Tens of thousands are brutalized and millioarrested in jail, making the United States the single most incarceration in the entire history of the world. This is an american crisis. This is not hyperbole but rather a reonse and i want to thank you for your action. I am the legal director for the grassroots law directive and i represent families and citizens killed by police. Some of the names you know. Far too many, you have not heard. I represent the family of Ahmaud Arbery murdered by a pulley former Police Officer and his son and a neighbor, william brian. Im here to provide testimony about justice and policing and Ahmaud Arbery was not killed in officerinvolved shooting. It was polic that contributed to his death. Neighbors sought help that they considered suspicious. He encouraged them to his pursue a course of vigilantism. He was aware for months that the man only intended to do harm. It was Law Enforcement two his mother, telling her his son had been killed in the course of a robbery by homeowner. The police chief where this occurred was arrested along with a handful i want a practice nation humanr a longi continue to stand for the fa floyd. Derek chauvin and other officers held him down for eight minutes and 46 seconds under the unbearable weight of oppression. He could not breathe and we could not breathe. The minnesotass top Law Enforcement official preemptively declared this would be a case difficult to prosecute. As hard as it is to accept given the evidence we have seen with our own eyes, it is consistent with the acari a cousin existing laws that basically give Carte Blanche to Law Enforcement to kill at will with the utterance of the three words, the five words, i fear for my life. He was killed in his apartment complex eating a bowl of ice cream. His killer said that she was instructed. If you cannot see the suspects hands, shoot him. Also gunned down in hwne of relief Police Officer aaron dean in the privilege of her home, saw her standing in the window and shot her in the bedroom as she played video games with her nephew. The beautiful families ive traveled with represent a crosssection of america. Disproportionately black undeniably strong, and committed to these of justice and policing. Er of a young woman named maggie brooks, her father a fire chief in arlington, texas. Accidentally shot by a officer who recklessly shot at her sixmonthold puppy, killing her. Qualified immunity has been her access to the court. Under current federal laws, there will be no criminal or civil liability for this officer. They include the family of michael dean, who went out to get his sixyearold daughter a birthday cake and never made it i wish i could tell you what happened to michael but the video was still not released by the department though the officer has been indicted on manslaughter charge chaesstill not allowed to see have denied accessshot in his place of business and home. The chief of police in kansas city missouri,e local District Attorney and refuse to submit a probable cause affidavit in making prosecution very difficult. A euro from chicago, working as a Security Guard at a nightclub when the nation was hobbling from one mass shooting to another, a gunman entered the club and began shoot indiscriminately. He waited for police to arrive. He shot him three times, killing him. No accountability in that case. Looking at the clock i am sorry, am i over . Take your time and wrap it up. He was 17 when he ran from a traffic stop. The officer who killed him had been sworn into the department that day after another jurisdiction under concerns of racism and brutality. The question we must ask is what will we do about all of this . Will future generations look back with pride that we confronted greatest evils with real courage or will they be disappointed because we had a mome. Right now, the answer hangs in the balance. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the opportunity to testify for today on policies that promote accountability and respect the dignity of all. Thank you for yourdership and for the justice in policing act. The recent murder at the hand of Police Officers have put the issue of Police Brutality in the nationalpotlight. The outpouring of pain and anger is anything but a reaction to isolated incidents. It is a response to a long history of violence with impunity and is Law Enforcement leaders havent knowledged, the modernday c the enforcement of laws and too many communities in this country. We are now in a turn we need to create a true a new way forward that creates accountability for communitys. It is imperative to get this right. Congresss response in this moment reflects the important work of black livesen matter that have brought us to where we are today. My tenure began two months after Michael Brown was killed by a Police Officer in the Justice Department is hardly perfect but we understood our mandate to promote accountability and constitutional policing to build community trust. Practice to help realize greater structural and Community Centered change often at the request of police chief and mayors around the country. After making findings, we negotiated consent decrees with extensive Stakeholder Engagement to overhaul of unlawful practices and develop mechanisms for accountability. Police departments around the country president obamas 21st Century Policing practices. Ce department we have today. Under attorneys general Jeff Sessions and bill barr, the department has addbility and abandon the use of tools. The disruption of crucial work of the Civil Rights Division is deeply concerning. The Leadership Fund in a new era of Public Safety on Police Reform, and building Community Police trust. A lot of the changes have to happen at the state and local level. On june 1, t Leadership Conference of more than 450 Rights Offering critical reckoned recommendations to move forward to the path of accountability. Requiring robust data collection. To cut off prohibiting an increasing the Justice Departments authority creating a Police Misconduct registry and ending qualified immunity. These are the responses to meet the moment will find yourselves in. We have seen these nibbling at the edges policies, we continue to grapple with Police Officers killing africanamericans with police accountability. It must be the cornerstone of any meaningful first steps. This moment of reckoning requires more than tinkering at the edges. It requires leaders, together with communities from both paparadigm of Public Safety, not just changing practices but ultimately shrinking the footprint of the criminal justice system. That means shifting our approach to Public Safety away from schools to investment all have given voice to these issues. When we finally stop is a criminal justice and social policy, we will make this safer. George floyds death impact of world and is on us to change it. Mr. Logan. Has it been the talk of the Police Officer getting out of the does it change the equation . I am a little older and closer to senator bookers age. F that is not old here. [laughter] i guess in my history, mainly growing up in new jersey, i imagine i was pulled over recently if policing is more like the community, you think that helps including minority officers and women . I would say that in camden, we have officers walk around and get to know us, and it was a very diverse police force as we shifted to the county and that meant a whole lot. To you think that means as much as minority officers . It is how you do it as much as who you are. I got you. I know you are a preacher. I have got to move on. [laughter] maher, are you with us . Yes. Do you have the same problems they have in minneapolis . Mr. Chairman, i would say the issue down to one department [indiscernible] my question is what have you done in st. Paul that has not been done in minneapolis . Your last question about hiring diverse officers. [indiscernible] were not done correcting the culture. [indiscernible] clicks ok. During the eight years with president obama, was there an effort to get rid of immunity for Police Officers question mark not talking about conversations. Was there legislation . No. Was or any legislation created violent act by the police . There were efforts to create a National Registry. I just missed a lot of that. This is a tough time for that for the country. Trump is a handful but we are not here because the failings of one administration. We are here because of the failing of society. The things we want to do now could have been done years ago. Lets do the things now that makes sense. Lets do the things now we should have done 50 years ago. I come from South Carolina. We have completely different experiences with the cops. There is no getting around that. It is time to have an honest about why is that how can it be you are United States senator from South Carolina and youre black, you get stopped five or six times and when white, you never get stopped . How can it be that people died because of a 20 bill in custody for not threatening anybody. Heres what i worry about the most. It is hard to be a cop. Lets make sure we do not ask do not des toyop in the process of trying to fix things that need to be fixed. I do not want the cop to lose their house but i do want people not to think twicegot a it and how to train it. That is when change will happen, when people feel the sting o that policy. To the extent that any of you on this side, my democratic colleagues, want to get therethere are a bunch of us who would like to get there i look forward tohi discussion and missile be the first of several hearings to get to it that looks like. It seems to me that the use, except in certain life or death circumstances. A growing number of state and local Law Enforcement agencies are banning the use of chokeholds. As i understand it, los angeles Police Departmenttly directed officers not to use chokeholds that restrict blood flowxn to the brain, also known as carotid restraints. I think we should deal with it in the justice and policing act do you believe there should be any exception to the ban, lethal forces used against an officer or someone else . If not, why not . And we go everyone answer . Microphone . I will figure that out today. I would be absolutely for no more chokeholds. I would lean into the best brains and minds on lethal force until that, once there is engagement between the person, between the citizen and the officer, that is where we get the challenge. So i would be opposed to chokeholds. X can we go down the road and down the line, and can someone respond to lifeanddeath circumstances as one exception please . I would be in favor of ending the chokehold except for when deadly for this in fact authorized under the law. It seems like that would be an appropriate time to use whatever means it takes to survive the encounter from a Law Enforcement perspective. I believe of the myriad of ways Law Enforcement engages in violence in this community, we should really be focusing on changing the mission in terms of whether or not this should be taking place at all, whether Law Enforcement officers should be engaged in a war on drugs which leads to a repeatedp ters. Chokeholds are inherently dangerous maneuvers and have been banned, heavy and as you noted, in jurisdictions including new york, atlanta washington dc, and miami. I wish the act had been proposed several years ago. These are longstanding problems to be making these fixes now. Next question, in a simple way for a nonlawyer audience, how does qualified immunity work . Why is it a problem and wens if congress eliminates the defense of qualified immunity . Qualified immunity said if an officer in good faith believe what he was doing was in line with the responsibility of a Police Officer, if he believes that and even if it turns out to be wrong, then he is immune not only from conviction, but he is immune from there is no discovery and no continuation of a similar civil or criminal process. Lets let you believe there . Should that be changed . You take the example of the case i brought up, the officer in good faithhot thought he was shooting at a dog. It was reckless behavior and something he should not have been engaged in but he thought he was protecting himself from a sixmonthold puppy that was charging at him. In the process, he killed a woman. Should he or his department be immune . Absolutely not. You should be held accountable for reckless behavior and the damage it caused. Thank you. I believe that is a part of transparency and accountability and will serve as a deterrent and hold officers at a higher accounliwithout that, than the culture comprehensively w have a feel of, i can do what i want and get away with it. Elevate to ask the panel, if you could reflect on the use of a no knock warrant and the impact that would have on communities of color particularly those with strained relations with the police. Breonna Taylor Taylor was killed asleep in her house. There have been a lot of highprofile tragedies as a result of the wines over used in drug cases in particular. The list is long and i would be happy to provide the committee with some cases but it is time to regulate those. Thank you. We believe the no knock warrant should be banned. There is a preference before the Supreme Court in favor of protecting Citizens Rights in one of the most sacred places. The idea of a no knock warrant like in the case of Breonna Taylor to Law Enforcement to violate their citizens in such a way, i dont believe that would be appropriate. Thank you. I would align myself with my colleagues. Yes, no knock warrants has a tone of guilty until proven innocent. As a homeowner father, husband if i respond wrong, i can be debt, and she is a warning we should ban no knock warrants. Thank you. First of all, thank you for the hearing. The murder of george floyd by Police Officers, a Police Officer, ignited the call for reform to rectify the lingering racism the our country. That plagues our country. Week we will take action to prevent more tragedy and unnecessary dthe vast majority of Law Enforcement officers deserve respect and support. The murder of george floyd shows they were not doing enough to prevent abuse by police. I welcome tough conversation. I have an oversight career of rooting out instances where accountability is needed. I led the first step back to rectify shortcomings of our criminal justice system, which impacts disproportionally minority men and women. I investigated the 27 shooting of a revealed instancesescalation tactics and inappropriate aggressive use of force. Address the use of force, racial biases, please abuse, and we must do it now. My first question is this, i have long supported efforts to increase transparency and accountability of all government actors, Police Officers are no different. That is why i cosponsored the bill which would increase transparency by the use of force by requiring reports, where there has been death or serious injury because just a minority of that, so my first question to you sir is i assume this data would be helpful understanding how to prevent unnecessary use of force. So if so, how can increase transparency into incidents of deadly or unnecessary use of force help protect members of the community as well as Police Officers . This question senator grassley. If we collected data nationally, that would be useful to preventing those Going Forward but just as important is collecting information where deadly force could have been used, but wasnt. Those of the data that have been historically missing in part of why the analyses have been inconclusive. I want to focus on the right kind of analyses, because they will inform the decisionmaking. Thank you. Police officers should be seen not just as enforcers of the law, but neighbors and members of the live in the area they patr so unnatural divide and mistrust can form. I will start with mayor carter. How can we encourage more engagement and trust between Police Officers and those that they patrol . Thank you it is an important question. I appreciate it. I think torture can officers i think what you are getting at our officers [indiscernible] i think that it is important. [indiscernible] i will yiedid i interrupt him . Your answer, and then i will yield to the next questioner. No, absolutely, it can be useful for the communities to see themselves reflected inr Law Enforcement protectors. It should be on culture, not just policies. Im giving them the hired, and fired reflect the Cultural Values of the community, rather than just set the policies. Culture eats policy for brea we would do well to remember that. Thank you. Senator lahey. Thank you. I appreciate this hearing, but especially appreciate the testimony we have heard. Now, im going to ask a question in an area she is well familiar with. We have seen the track records, patterns of investigations and what it can do, but despite the track record of reducing shootings, the Justice Department has effectively abandoned those investigations in the use of said consent decrees. I dont believe a single one has been enforced under President Trump. You are a former head of the Justice Department and Civil Rights Division, how do those investigations and consent decrees make a difference in changing Police Practices . Well, the Justice Department use this tool judiciously. They would conduct an investigation after being aware of systemic problems in the Police Department, six months to one year, a investigation and interviews with hundreds of Community Residents Police Officers, please leadership, looking at data, Statistical Analysis training, accountability supervision and if they made us claim, they would published report and begin to negotiate a on rareions, it would involve legislation in the city would produce a document that would allow for p taken out and long stem term sustainable change it will send a message if you dont use these tools to document Police Misconduct, doesnt that say we will close our eye to it . It has sent a danger signal to shut this down. It creates a culture of impunity and a sense there is a Watchdog Agency through administrations has played an important r the reason i asked the question, and i dont think of it as a microcosm of the c heard across the little political spectrum the concerns i see happening around the country. People say this movement will not go away, as others have. I hope they are right. What would you tell members of congress . Waiting and seeing means more people will die and undermine any concept we have a legal system that is legitimate and fair, and that undermines Public Safety. I happen to agree with you. I have a question on the other civil rights issue, Legal Protections against Police Brutality would be meaningful if they could be enforced in a court of law. Prosecutor, and many opposed making changes to the qualified immunity doctrine. It is evident it has prevented olice brutality. They argue it opens up to litigation. How do you respond to that . First, we have done a review of case law in the area, and several officers over time that have been granted qualified immunity. In other words, he is ri using the need to kill somebody. Yes, using the need to kill somebody that you qualified immunity in america. You flood the courts with cases of officers killing people. Dont have that a legitimate concern. Only in america is that a problem. The answer is stop killing so many people. Thank you. I have other questions. Can i submit them . Thank you. Absolutely. Can i think all the witnesses. I would like to ask the witnesses to tell us if they believe the Police Department and the police in america are systemically racist. Would i anybody like to agree with that statement . Im sorry. Professor logan. I cant see that far away. Thats right. That means all 800,000 officers, is that true . If you counted in the system. I dont know all 18,000, but the systemic racism. Im sorry, if i may, senator. The reason why i have observed all please police are involved in systematic racism is because their system is bad. They go ugs and punish wrongdoers. The problem in the innercity community are blight, poverty sickness, homelessness. Those arent situations necessarily remedie with a gun, but rather the appropriate social Workers Health care workers to remedy the problems. When we concentrate our communities, black and Brown Community specifically, with militarized police in which you will have disproportionate use of force and incarceration of black and brown people. To the extent you are suggesting were asking lawenforcement officials to do more than enforce the law, to be social workers, Mental Health providers and the like, i think chief brown said we ask our police to do too much and that is probably true in my view. A number ofexperimented successfully with a team approach. For example, to reduce or deescalate confrontation when it comes to Mental Illness or the like, and certainly all of us see the benefit of deescalation training. Extent is the problem we have with excessive use of force and the lack of trust with police a matter of class as opposed to race . It doesnt depend on the color of your skin are poor or lack opportunities in our society . In the United States of difficult to two, and i dont think there isnt an institution suffering from Structural Racism, given our history. I think taking action in the moment is to recognize there are things that congress can do to end of the killings in our streets, provide Law Enforcement with training, make National Standards on things that shouldve had National Standards years ago. This is take action given the pain on the streets and in the and this is just the reality of what communities have been experiencing. I dont have long to ask questions. You changed the phrase from systemic to Structural Racism. What does that mean . Everything institution, every person in america is racist . There is biases built into institutions. There are any number Courageous Police who have spoken about systemic racism in history. You think systemic or Structural Racism can exist in a system that requires individual responsibility or do you think it is one of the other . I think everyinstitution has been shaped by these forces, and our goal is to do what we can a advocates to fight it in the modernday iterations that it appears. Do you agree basically that all americans are racists . I think we all have racial biases, yes, we do. I think we are an amazing country that strives to be better every day. Thats why i went into government to make a more perfect union. You lost me when you took the acts of a few malicious individuals and subscribe that to all americans. 800,000 Police Officers, 18,000 Police Departments. Thank you for your answer. Somebody has the microphone on. Could you please mute it from the remote location . Ok. Senator durbin. Thank you mr. Chairman. I think what we fin i didnt ask you a question. If you take a look at our system of justice and start with the premise that there of white and black drug users. Now you look at the number arrested for the use of drugs more blacks than whites. Number convicted prosecutedd dramatically larger among the africanam there is something built into our system that does not equate criminal disposition towards thepenalties. My only suggestion is that. Will be my suggestion was that was a function of povey. The result is the same. I would like for the chairman to consider this. Back in the elec congress, i was defending the sheriff of a rural county in illinois being sued for the mistreatment of a prisoner in jail. How did i end up defending him . Not was the state attorney or in public office, but because i work for an insurance company. It turned out the county in illinois had an insurance policy that covered the sheriff, when the sheriff was sued for wrongdoing as theultimately, the county stepped in and indemnified him for any liability he mightturns out to mr. Chairman, 99 to 100 of these cases against the wrongdoing of an individual an employer who steps in and provides an insurance policy and coverage that pays d. I did not go after motorcycle delooking for insurance policies. I think the personal liability issue you raised is covered by the fact that 99 to 100 of these policies but never get to the question of liability because they cant get around the basic issue of qualified immunity. They cant match up on all four conduct with misconduct that has been tried. Is that your experience . Those arelty should be held of what theyrecan i ask this question . We talked a lot about the conduct about those in Law Enforcement, and i recently had a roundtable last friday in chicago, and a representative of the naonal alliance of Mental Illness, and we know Mental Illness is part of this conversation and what we eyeopener from the viewpoint of Law Enforcement officers, the highest incidence ofng any profession in america are men and women in Law Enforcement, and they have five times as frequently ptsddepression. It appears there are some issues when their lifestyles, job, availability of weapons the stress they go toughofficials. I believe we need to address in happy to cosponsor legislation that addresses that side of the equation. We videotape and proven it. There has been racism and unfairness in justice, but we also try to address in parts of this bill the training of those in law en stable, not fair, bias, and those who shoulda badge and a gun. So let me just address that for a moment. It strikes me we have to consider that aspect if we want a police force in the future. They always had provisions on officer wellness and Mental Health issues among Police Officers was a big concern around accountability, discipline, and the like, and that was built into these consent decrees. The other issue around esca force training, bringing Mental Health teams in so Mental Health officials compare with Police Officers on the scene. That was another thing that common. Was the one his knee on the neck of that man, killing himbelieve him at some point so he was no visible threat what were the other officers doing . Why wasnt there some intervention . Some explained to me because there is a military structure to our police, the chain of command makes. Intervention difficult, if not possible. We have to talk about that when we talk about policing in the future. Senator lee . Thank you. We all know about the brutal and senseless killing of george floyd in minneapolis. There is no excuse, nor can there be for what the police did to mr. Floyd. His killers are being brought to justice. His death, we hope, will not be remembered solely for being a senseless act of violence that falsely was launched in his name, but rather hopefully his memory will be made permanent in our national consciousnessthe longterm reform of policing in utah, the city of alden, it is mourning the death of a Police Officer. On may 28, woman called 911 saying her husband was threatening her life. He and a group of officers arrived promptly at the home. The man inside began shooting at him. He was mortally wounded. 4 years old. He was about to celebrate his fifth wedding anniversary to his wife, ashley. He hadeen on the job as a Police Officer for just 15 accounts, he did his job completely, very much up untilhe moment he drew breath after being mortally wounded on the job. He sought to uphold justice and protect the innocent, even making the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of a threatened and fearful family. His loss really is our loss, aGeorge Floyds loss is a loss for everyone as well. Remember and reverei think we can do precisely that. The residents of oregon, utah are an example of how that can happen. They came together peacefully to draw attention to these tragic deaths. This is a protest that ended and started peacefully and brought members of the ogden rather than pull them apart. Th is an important issue that we have to continue to focus on. Jersey, new jersey had the highest rate of crime in the nation. Inep addition, the Police Department in camden, new jersey discovered extension extensive evidence. The behavior was pervasive that the convictions had to be reversed as a result of it. As a result, the governor and mayor decided to disband the camden, new Jersey Police force and transfer the policing of the city to the county. Notably, the rebuilding of this new metro Police Department move forward without the involvement of a number of people previously involved in it. Disbanded department was invited to aly for the new police force00, a little less than half eventually rehired. A result of this restructuring, response times improved. Now a person waiting for a please respond ore . Waits an average of 4. 4 minutes, instead of therevious violent crimeas dropped 42 in just seven years. All of this was done without a union. All this was done freeing the department from a collective Bargaining Agreement that had previously locked the city and the city Police Department into an unholy alliance with who had violent and lawless tendencies. This brought a by what all observable seem to be a better set of, so mr. Logan, thank you for being here and for your healing words. I appreciate your account of the you mentioned the difficult balance that has to be struck in order to empower Police Officers to do the difficult work and hold accountable those who disregard the they are entrusted to uphold. Did this restructuring that happened in me how it helps to recalibrate that balancee between power and authority you mentioned. Thank you, senator. I would say that they listen to the people, from town Hall Meetings to, they begin residents. I remember governor christie came to all near my house several clergyman speak to the struggles, challenges, fears and issues of camden in its broken state. The mayor did a great job of hearing and restating to mas the new officers walked the streets, as a good for a block p in an impromptu cookout. I was cooking on the ea onq les it was unconscionable. It was clearly a grotesque abuse officers that carried out are rightly being prosecuted. To the best of my knowledge here today agrees with those statements. And every senator on thisitrees with those statements. I think all of us regardless of y, should demand justice and should demand applied fairly race. That to, and a country with a deeply troubled history working to achieve. I also thinke government power that there is a risk ofbuse rights against the abuse of governmental authority. F the rhetoric that has been used in the wake of mr. Floyds killing has been inaccurate and harmful. A great many of our colleagues use the racism to suggest the entire criminal justiceracism. I dont believe that is accurate. Of our colleagues have said, and this ism hearing, nothing has changed. From the days dr. King stood onof the lincoln memorial. I think that is demonstrably great deal has changed since then. Our country has made a journey. Senator booker said dr. King pointed to bending towards juste. We have arc. We no longer have jim crow laws, gr schools. We no longer have open bigotry that was so pervasive just a generation ago when our country. G people to say nothing has gives them a false and inaccurate picture nt4wmething our democratic colleagues often point to as the this, it is worth noting that in minneapolis, the police chief is a democrat, the mayor is an elected democrat, every member of the city council is an elected democrat, the attorney general is an elected democrat, both senators are elected democrats. Now, dont for a moment to leave that every one of those elected officials is part of systemic racism and oppression, and to tell the americanens that is wha on is misleading them and it is harmful. Yes. There people who violate the law . Yes, and they should be prosecuted, just like the officers who killed mr. Floyd but to impugn the integrity of everyone working in Law Enforcement is a disservice to this nation. There has been a lot of discussion there has been a lot of discussion of abolishing police has become a new political cause celebre. I want to point is committed to an article entitled policing the police. The impact crime. And with the chairmans permission i would like to enter in this article into t two economist at harvard university. Discussion from our democratic more department of justice pattern of investigations into Police Departments. That has become one of the frequent refrains. Let me read from the conclusions from this study because if we care about saving peoples lives , conclusions of this study should give us real ca here ithey examined all of the Police Departments in which patternactice investigations had been launched, and they found a real difference for those investigations where there was not what they called a viral incident. Of violence on a civilian they found that did not increase crime. All of the investigations that were preceded by viral incidents of definitely force deadly to an increase of homicide in total crimes. We estimate these investigations caused almost 900 access homicide and almost 34,000 excess felonies. So of the members of this commk matter, demonizing the police, causing them to pull back from protecting peoples lives will predand so, i urge that proceed with caution, with a truth. Thanks, senat is that allowing for responses to that . No. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Was murderedhas been both heartbreaking , and the response nationally in some ways inspiring. It has ignited a conversat and it requires that we act. This happenspandemiconomic crisis, yet thousands of taken to thestreets in every town in our country demandingto advance justice and equality. The people are leading in congress to follow. And as been added to the list. May ask a few questions. Much from dr. Goff as perhaps we shoon the line of questioning my two previous senators have pursued about these pattern and practice beyond just a focus on a single bad apple off an entire is being run, the way a whole department is operating and its consequences. Prior investigations. A Training Officer at the time of the murder of george floyd. I was proud to join colleagues as a cosponsor of the justice anpolicing act. It would give the department of justice subpoena power. An important and useful tool and how do you thpak investigations can ultimatelyublic safety . As a moment of privilege, i would like to enter into the record the ways in which the study that senator cruz mentioned that actually show the effectiveness of consentluding a very recent i wanted to state decrees, the subpoena power is something that the justice dep Civil Rights Division does not have. It was a real problem for when the Justice Department opened up a patte investigation into the Maricopa County shdepartment with sheriff joe arpaio. We had their situation where the sheriff was unwilling to cooperate with the request for documents, theon. That is typical around these kinds of investigatiityears for the Justice Department to actually be able to and win a judgment in court that gave us, that gave the Justice Department access. Meanwhile, the unconstitutiona policing profile and national. Without that subpoena power, it really limited the ability of the Civil Rights Division do its full job, and it can play a factor also sometimes, the po]e mostlicies you do not wanted to play an limiting where the Justice Department is going to go, if you got such an uncooperative situation, the lack of subpoena power im r. Goff, literally to follow up on what i am also a cosponsor of the end racial and religious profiling act incorporatedit racialprofiling and required dacan you briefly explain how we could use that arrests to achieve more equitable and effective policing . X absolutely. Th is we do not want to just look at comparisons of race. It is not enough to say that black people are stuffed more often. It is not enough to say that people have forced used on there more often. If we4i do not know t appropriate point of comparison. Thout poverty. I take the senator to good faith. Scientists have to ask that question. We have to take into and poverty rates before we make a determination that police have additional responsibilities above that. Robust analyses are clear. Crime and poverty are not sufficient Racial Disparities and policetops or police use of force. They are a part of the if there were National Data collection on these elements, it would be possible for both federal i scientists and the Broader Community to get a better sense o large is the actual level of violence and where can we be targeting them . That is an essential piece of the equation if we are going to solve these problems. As mayor, from mr. Merritt, police are often our First Responders to a host of problems. They represent broader failings housing, substance abuse, Mental Health care. Hank can you explain how funding the social services Police Officers and lead to fewer deadly interactions between policing Community Members . Re are places and es where we do not think t policing as we do in our ne code for where it is difficult to police because it ult in our imagination are the places is a Mental Health crisis you can call a doctor or cnician. Ifg out of school you can put them on time out but they are not a threat to anybody el have resources such that they do not need to call Law Enforcement for everything, then policing is easier. Wedepartments and communities are safer. Wherever you do not have to call police, is safer. The word fhi in most w of doing tfor the communities most distressednd most vulnerable have thees so they have to call less. Invest in public Mental Health, resources will be there at i . ]tl ex tit vz wrofc irs a1 ecof t taway since it is something that your officers now enjoy. To discuss that Going Forward. Sen. Cruz thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to each of the witnesses. I am happy to defer to the senior senator. I apologize. I did not see you. Thank you very much. It doesnt happen very often. He has never seen me defer before. Rst for everything. Tscriminal laws are largely a creaturecreation. They are much like our tort laws in that respect. As a general rule, i governments toot dictate to the state wh is authority under section five of amendment and an obligation of congress to make sure that certain Constitutional Rights are not infringed by the state. Since the beginning of the Trump Administration, how is the department of j stopped to ensure that state Law Enforcement officials are held accountable for Law Enforcement behavior . I am not sure that i know the answer to your question, senator lee. We have many cases that we look at with our Civil Rights Division. I assume you are talking about state officials. We have two tools, the criminal enforcement tools under 242 and 241. Pattern of practice that we discussed today. But we know that states also have their own laws. Sen. Laws create anonment where qualified immunity creates a a ceiling when it comes to states allowing for their. Federal cause of action was created for civil rights complaints against state actors actinger color of state law to deprive someone of their constitution is, they referred to now ashe t vehicle to which someone can seek redress in federal from undermining rights by state officers. The doctrine of qualified immunity caned in federal court under that federal action. Isnt it correct that it has no bearing under whether a plaintiff might bring or succeed in a state law cause of action in state Court Pursuant to state law . Ms. Co that is correct. It is my understanding that the federal caoihv action puts no consaints on the state. It is my understanding that both california and iowa have enacted laws that significantly limited qualified immunity within the state. Do youe any idea how many states have enacted similar laws for officers who violate civil rights to be sued civilly . Ms. Cox i do not know. Sen. Lee it wili would love to knowrisdictions that do have those, what impact the crime rate and also the rate at which police use of power by Law Enforcement continues to be placed. Any changes to section 1983 should of course be made by congress because 1983 as a federal law. In contempmightred with regard to 1983, we do have to consider how a revised policy might impact those people who we are trying to protect. Ile i believe that we should consider mqualified immunity in the sense that we have a vague standard that has been difficult to traditionally terribly manageable because it that really does not work all that well, i am also concerned that would have some significant potential to impact individuals particularly in poor and middle class neighborhoods, but particularly those in poor and high crime neighborhoods could be left most vulnerable as a result of a willie nilly. Tute and determi what the unintended consequences of that action would be. Sen. Klobuchar thank you, mr. Chairman, senator booker. Chief davis, thank you for being here. Ank all of you for being here. As someone who has served in Law Enforcement for over 30 years what do you see as the most important changes that would be made with the justice in police act . Chief davis i personally believe that National Standards accreditation would be a step forward. There are too many agencies in the country that are allowed to pick and choose policy. People can go from department to abl asked him a question on that maybe i will ask him a question on that. And you talk, chief, about a federal solution and why that is appropriate in this area . Chief acevedo certainly senator. Sunshine laws as it relates to Police Officer misconduct. In the state of california, under coakley versus san for many years, we cannot even share th information with the public. Having that registry across the National Level for all 18,000 Police Departments would be a huge, huge benefit for the profession. Sen. Klobuchar and absent a change ifederal law immediately,r own, is that rior would you have to get a chge in state law . Chief acevedo the problem is that state laws are different across the cin texas under our statute, the only time that we can put out information on discipline is if it is we are kind of a sunshine state. Very proud of that fact. Is written reprimand suspension, ndefinite suspension, which is the equivalent of a fire in, a charging document available to the public. Sen. Testified in sqdport of implementing a national use of force policy including the prohibition of chokeholds and neck restraint. Panel do not agree with that. That is why i am cosponsor of that bill. Having seen what happened if you dont have those standards in place. For instance, a case in minnesota in the neighboring jurisdiction to minneapolis, the Philando Castile case, where a good prosecutor was assigned and the jury came back non part because of the standards in law. Can you talk about the standards . I think there varying opinions about chokeholds. Manybanned chokeholds. The issue is that Police Officers are trained in so many dimaneuvers to deal with various situations. We are that any maneuver above the shoulders, in area, in thy applied or in the past traditionally, only applied in the c times, and we hav recently, there is not placed on that area of the body to notus george floyd, just a casual pinning an individual down tothe ground. There are many other ways to restrain anividual w on the neck, or any type of object on the neck to cause sen. Klobuchar senator gillibrand and senator smith and i have worked on thefchange there is a change to their federal funding. Also like to see a ht . Chief davis ok. Jimenez was a cnn reporter protests in minnesota and she detained after complying with rules. In the days that folwed, there were a number of journalists that wer . Hurt. I care about this a lot and the governor apologized to him and they did an interview and i talked with him myself. How can local Police Working on peacekeeping how can they ensureccess to report on protests . Chieation is really important be police and media so that we canwho the officials are who are working think prior communication is 4 important. Communicatingdeescalation tactics we have erious is it to make an arrest sometimes, i have to we have had many ople to have space sometimes so i think the officers on approach sen. Klobuchar in anyou wrote you were heartened investigation and of Police Officers will be led by our attorney general. Why do you t independent investigation, and do you support investigation for Police Involved deaths . Is 36 year Law Enforcement officer, i have struggled watching the video. Ifn you recall, we were probably the first Labor Organization to out and take such a position against this. I feel stronglyinjustice, we need to find correction heartened that his case will get a full review i have every confidence the justice systemide justice for the family. Thank you. Senator blackburn thank this has been trdo today. Bgthe first panel was interesting and insightful to help us as we work on this and cover some things to make sure i am making notes properly as we move forward. I have that it is important to have lawer enforcement participate in writing the standards. We need a nationwided be part of developing the set of breast set of best practices. Nationwide database when m going somewhereuu else. That there should bendards and practices around use of e and that you would like to see that as practices followed by all. Just very quickly. E. You hit it on the with all departments we probably have to least efficient model in the world. We cannot have 18,00having critical policies are key inenforcement and liver partners weighing in on the issues as important as well. Enforcementners weighing in on theissues a want as it relates to critical policies a standardized approach. Chief davis ie of force best practices andconsistent policy across the board to all policies that are consistent with agencarge or small National Database for officer misconduct. Chief stevens believe in a national use of forcex policy. We also believe in National Standards training. We currently have different ones fo it is unbelievable. For the National Database for decertified have asked officgn and i have had some leave the agency during internal investigations. It is incr decertify an officer and if they leave during an investigation undercurrent labor laws, i cannot share that information to a future employer. It is incredibly consenting for Law Enforcement leaders. Senator blackburn that is very i think one of the things that conservancy concerns me, we heard years ago about the need for training. Enement officers are not psychologists. They a not the person to solve some of these issues. We heard so much about drug issues and we pushed forward to deal with Mental Health. Me that what we are dealing with nowproblems that built up because of prejudice, discrimination and bias and that there nee approach ore consistent helpful. There and 18,000 Different Police forces. There needs to be some best practices. Just like in other areas and t consideredreciprocal. I have other qtalk about best practices and lesson window policy and some concerns i have had that we are seeing zones, when in seattle and they tried one in nashville unsuccessfully. The problems that developed. He interest of time, i will submit those. Chai senator blumenthal. Senator thank you for being here and for your service and joi thanks to those who join us remotely. I will share some things that have come to me from reflect the general feeling in the from anx attorney in hartford bell who described a talk he was given by his parents, warning to avoid any sort of sudden movements and t and he said in a message to m his impact about what you would a attorney, i a hypervigilant around police and maintain a safe d around another voice from eastd perience and says the exriences are scary, make me nervous, and i have to be extracareful while i am driving because forgetting my turn signal or rolling at a stop sign could lead to something more. I have wondered about these experiencesbrought home to me at the rally i described earlier by a man named paulpped his car in connecticut and was two police his car stopped inew he 21 and with a 22yearold black woman, whly injured. One of the Police Officers is facing charges ofent. Iannot tell meinvestigation, from fiscal years 2017 to 2019, the department of justice has brought 100 40 casesses and charging law en how many resulted ictions . I do not have that dinformation with me but i me get back to you. Sen. Blumenthal i hope you the main issues ise. I understand the reluctance to change standards wouldnt you agree changing the sta willfulness as has been ggested by the justice policing 242 sectionrosecuti8l likelyosecutions i will get that information to you think it would be often would succeed in the cases. I would add when i l rights brought in they filed more 242 cases t in the prior 10. Enforcement and we will have to get back to yousen. Blumenthal how many cases did the department of justice decline . Figure. How many were are of that n. Blumenthal i would appreciate that information. With all due respect, because i attorney, and i mean this to you with all duepectp . There were others in the departmentg here. Number one, attorney general there is no topic know whether the chairman agrees with me, there is no more important topic that we will hear in this committee than this. Having beenstates attorney, if i had been sent here to testify for the attorney general of the United States on the topic of thi importance without the kind of preparation yo deserveand i would appreciate that information, because this committee has an obligation to consider what we can do tol enforcement more effective as a and as a punishment. , there is like a potentia conviction to concentrate the and to make anyone, including a Police Officer, baby espe officer, ul. We can debate back and to believe it should be reformed. And i happen to believe m municipalities should bear the financial andx legal responsibilities. Im not sure what you thinright now they have to indemnify the Police Officer. Chief davis absolutely. And i think t testimony that not being an attorney but reaunderstanding not seem to be much in the qualified laws the way it is written victims to be able to suefeel like this is a good timewe reconstruct reform and look at some of the ws that could potentiallylumenthal thank you. Natorha you each og here today. I will start by focusing there are some wh what they call defunding the policeand i want to ask each of the goodumber one, and two consequences be for Public Safety if we defunded the police . I have heard tho and in my experience in my district it would be v9jy dallas, we are dealing officers that we have had in past years for a varie heard through my work on the pro is they need more more resources we have been able to bring back to them and they have to us ininging resources to the nere, we heard stories of having to go from call to call work we are in the neighborhood and timave been fear is if you do departments, the work we think matters not get done. I would echo those comments and heard fi would agree withuld be investing moret. G Law Enforcement and pridinthe department of justice has several programs thank you. We have limited time. Do in Law Enforcement that would beneficial about social rvices and adding coresponders. I can tell frustration of dealing with them. Defund the police is a buzzword and it takes on different meanings but in realityt expa certainly discussion is to the job for the sake of adding additional services, will hurt the communities we are trying to help. I think the terminology, there are different defending concept but Community Engagement is important, it would be within the department that would go. The aspect of the department builds relationships with communities,to have that woul Police Department, i cannot imagine who would take over the work we do see that the countr police have takensocial services realm. Chief acevedo e should getpolicing, ourmunity d police, they want better policingthe majority of our Mental Health institutio country arewe forced Law Enforcement to criminalize some of these. Ial services is mandatory. I believe defunding the police would result in more crime, assault rates burglaries do you believe that would be the consequence . I do. I believe the crime rate would go up. Chief davis absolutely. Absolutely. Chief cassteven sen. Cruz everyone across the country was horrified what happened to george floyd. There is no legitimate Law Enforcement purpose abusive conduct that cost him his life. If there was one specific st take to what happened to george floyd from ever happening what would it be . If y i think what we case, how they arerosecuting quickly and civil rights looking into that, i think what we need to engaging in our communit relationships through the Police Departme congress could give more grant to work with the Police Departments to train and engage to form they dot have interactions like that would be i concur with my colleague. Investing more in Community Engagement for law law providing the ability to have a great deal of responsibi and it we have lost trust invest back in the community to rebuild trust is wmake a difference. There is no one thing that will fix all of but one thing discussed was a standardization submit there is aizations, a eement for a use of force and training that would go with it would go a great way and having a chokehold should b used is in restraints ce is auth qch my colleagues haveed about training. It important for officers, but in the george floyd case i think something wa very apparent to theorld. There was a human being and the officer. Those individuals that were uniforms, the duty to intervene was athe culture of p agree. Th do is more robust processes and laws that help us unbalanced responders. Chief cassteven onlyddthe use of forceit should be mandatory for all. Every hav. If there was an Early Warning stem in minneapolis, i think ve been flagged much earlier on prior ts and we could have protect could have haperning. N. Thank you to the panel. To all the people in the Law Enforcement a usi yes. Chie positive or negative attention . T a granbecause you weto do, witbsolutely. It would get my thank you for the indulgence. I am glad i am sorry it took so long but this is an importantpart in our nations hie record open for questions. Allowing us to submit cspans washington journal every day. We are taking your calls live on the day and discussing policy issues that impact you. Co up dnesindependent womens laweek supreme ision onand al executive director david j washing andhecspan the House Judiciary Committee considers Police Reform at changes to police training. C Senate Continues work on the National Bill with the final vote expected. Om u. S. Trade representative robert on trade policy. At 3 p. M. Eastern, the Senate Finance committee he is from ambassador lighthizer. Heres a look at what ae. At 10 00 a. M. Eastern, the head of the federal aviatio administration testifies before process. At noon, Committee Hears from Federal Reserve chair rome powell about the ecomicdemic. At 1 p. M. Eastern, how Small Business hearing on tithe paycheck protection loan program. Again, all of that is live for cspan. Org. President tqump signed executive order on policing in response to the death of george floyd and protests across the nation, calling for police ests professional standards and additional training for Police Departments nationwi. Thban on the use of chokehold unless and ties federalocommunities implementing the