Transcripts For CSPAN House Hearing On Amtraks Response To COVID-19 Pandemic 20240712

Nations rail Service Needs 4 billion to stay afloat for fiscal year 2021. He made the comments in testimony before the house transportation subcommittee on railroads. The subcommittee will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chair declare a recess at any time during todays hearing. Without objection so ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at todays hearing and ask questions. Without objection so ordered. This is a hybrid hearing. I want to remind members of key regulations from the House Committee on rules to ensure that the hearing goes smoothly. Members must be visible on screen for the purposes of identification when joining this hearing. Members must also continue to use the video function on todays Software Platform cisco webx for the remainder of the time they are attending this hearing, unless experiencing connectivity issues or other technical problems. If a member is experiencing any connectivity issues or problems, please inform the Committee Staff as soon as possible so you can receive assistance. Problems. If a member is experiencing any connectivity issues or problems, please inform the Committee Staff as soon as possible so you can receive assistance. A chat function is available for members on the web x platform for this purpose and members can also call the committees main phone line at 2022254472 for Technical Assistance by phone. Members may also not participate remotely in any other proceeding that may be occurring simultaneously. It is the responsibility of each member seeking recognition to unmute their microphone prior to speaking to avoid any inadvertent background noise i request every member keep their microphone muted when not seeking recognition to speak. Should i hear any background noise i request that member mute their microphone. Finally, despite this being a hybrid hearing, all the standard rules of decorum apply. As the chair of todays hearings ill make a good faith effort to provide every member experiencing issues to participate fully in the proceedings. Members will have five minutes to ask questions. To insert a document into the record, please have your staff email it to the clerk. This hearing also is being live streamed for the public to view. And with that, i will now recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. Good morning. I want to welcome everyone to todays subcommittee hearing on amtraks response to covid19. As you can see were doing a hybrid hearing today with both members and our witnesses remote to safely conduct this hearing. I want to wish everyone participating or watching this hearing my best during these tough times and i hope everyones family and loved ones are safe. Before we get started, this is my first opportunity to publicly congratulate William Flynn who became amtraks ceo less than five months ago. There could not be a much tougher time to Begin Service full and healthy, the world is yours. How old are you all, 31, 32 . All right. Rules. Okay. I think we got that correctd and the mute there. I wishing mr. Flynn well. Covid has wreaked havoc on the health and economic welfare of americans just as it has done across the globe. Economically the travel industry has been especially hard hit. I understand amtrak faces a serious Financial Issues and other strains on its operation. Well hear specifically about this directly from mr. Flynn. Ive always been a strong advocate from amtrak because it provides an important public service, the rail service. It is critical that all of us, especially everyone at amtrak, always keep in mind that it is first and foremost a National Public service. Though this does not mean that it should not be run well. In addition, as everyone watching knows ive been a staunch advocate for the men and women who work at amtrak. It is essential that especially in the midst of an unprecedented pandemic thats caused economic hardships for millions of americans and their families. That brings me to the issue of furloughs recently announced by amtrak. Congress recognized the financial difficulty amtrak had been experiencing because of a steep drop in ridership and provided over 1 billion in cares act funding for amtrak, with the understanding that part of the funds would be used to prevent furloughs. So amtraks announcement they will furlough over 2,000 employees october 1st is extremely disappointing. I understand that technically were about to begin a new fiscal year, but one of the biggest frustrations that i and others have had amtrak has had months to come to congress to help keep workers on payroll. The principle reason amtrak didnt get money in the heros act passed by the house was that amtrak didnt submit a supplemental request until ten days after passage. To make matters worse, amtrak is just now submitting their amend fy 21 request one month before the current fiscal year expires and amtrak plans to implement these furloughs. I believe that Congress Needs to act quickly to prevent furloughs and avoid Long Distance service cuts. The furloughs wont save the federal government that much money because a workers furlough will be eligible for Unemployment Insurance funded through taxes paid by workers and their employers, in this case amtrak. Second, we tried cutting Long Distance Service Three days a week prior under president clinton in 1994. Congress on a bipartisan basis led by Missouri Republican Mississippi Republican senator lott eventually rejected those cuts and restored Long Distance service to seven days a week because cutting Long Distance service economically hurts rural communities, undermines amtraks role and actually doesnt save that much money. Congress view has not changed in the past 25 years. Finally we should reject those cuts because most of us on this committee believes whenever this pandemic is over amtrak should go back to the service it had before this pandemic. We cannot just flip the switch so to speak if amtrak is going to lose valuable workers, know how and riders because of these cuts. Ultimately the furloughs and Long Distance service cuts are misguided and we get our National Rail service. Its important we hear from amtrak ceo William Flynn today on his longterm vision for amtrak and why amtrak is making these cuts. Finally i feel it necessary to remind amtrak that while i strongly support our nations railroad, amtrak must heed and not ignore congress desire that works well with others including commuter railroads like metra in illinois and states and local municipalities. Too often it feels like amtrak has had to take money from congress and ignore congress directives. That is not helpful. Especially when amtrak needs much more from congress right now. With that, i recognize Ranking Member crawed f member crawed for for his opening statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for hearing. Also want to thank our witnesses for being here today. Our hearing today is to review amtraks response to the covid19 pandemic. In march Congress Gave amtrak since that time amtrak has significantly cut its routes and announced its laying off 20 of its work force, thats almost 4,000 people by october 1st, 2020. Amtrak has also more than doubled its fiscal year 2020 request from just over 2 billion to almost 5 billion. Im troubled amtrak is receiving and requesting record amounts of funding while cutting thousands of jobs. When i asked for more specifics amtrak could not provide even the basic information. Amtrak should not be spending its money on foreign goods while cutting american jobs and services. I welcome the amtrak ceo bill flynn and look forward to hearing how he responds to the covid19 crisis and also his plans for meeting amtraks congressionally mandated requirement of making a profit. Thank you again to all our witnesses for being here today, and i yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Crawford, chair odonnell will recognize the Ranking Member for an opening statement. Sorry, about that, mr. Chairman. I was muted. Okay, go ahmed. I want to thank you for holding this hearing and thank all the witnesses for attending. Obviously todays hearing is great opportunity to review amtrak has handled the covid19 pandemic. Prior to crisis amtrak was coming off its best year ever. In 2020 amtrak was expected to make a profit for the first time in almost 50 years. But after the pandemic amtrak obviously reported that its ridership dropped by 95 and its revenues were down 82 compared to 2019 levels. Today also amtraks ceo bill flynns first apeerps as you pointed out before the committee. His experience includes high level positions in obviously the Aviation Industry and Maritime Industries and also working in class one fright railroad. And i know many members of the committee on both sides are work would bill as hes served in various roles. And ive always found him to be forthright in many of his past positions, and i expect thats going to be the same case for amtrak and his leadership at amtrak. I look forward to hearing from there flynn on his update when it comes to amtraks covid19 response. And im also interested in hearing about his future plans for amtrak including recovery for the pandemic and restoring ridership and meeting the congressional mandate for profits. So with that, again, thanks to all the witness and i look forward to the discussion. I would now like to welcome the witnesses on our panel. The president of amtrak, the National President communications union. Ms. Amy griffon, president of local 1460, and mr. Jim matthews, president chief executive officer of the Rail Passenger association. I look forward to your testimony. This written testimony will be made part of the record and request you limit your oral testimony to 5 minutes. And with that, mr. Flynn, you may proceed for five minutes. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member gray, Ranking Member crawford and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the kind welcome and the opportunity here to address the committee. As you know im bill flynn, amtraks recently appointed president and ceo. And im here to discuss our companys response to covid19. But i have to start my remarks by thanking our dedicated employees who have more than risen to the pandemic challenge. Our highest priority is always going to be the safety of our customers and the safety of our employees. And am truly proud of the efforts. Were also partnering a leading university to study airflow and ventilation in our rail cars and working with others to strengthen our disfecting protocols. I want to thank you you for the invest in america act, and if enacted wed finally have the funding we require to modernize our system, add more trains and new routes across our nation and receive the priority treatment from our host railroads that your constituents deserve. Simply put its the game changer weve always hoped for. Amtrak did deliver record performance in fiscal year 19 and fiscal year 20 was set to be another record year. But our ridership plummeted by 97 . In february we carried more than 80,000 daily passengers. But in april there were less than 4,000 passengers with correspondenting impacts on our revenues. Thank tuesday the cares act weve managed to survive these difficult times for fy20, but unfortunately our ridership and revenue are still down more than 80 . We recently updated our forecast for fiscal year 21, and we now anticipate get needing up to 4. 9 billion in funding to operate and invest in our network, support our partners and address various congressional concern such as avoiding employee furloughs and maintaining day Long Distance service. Given the uncertainty of covid19 supplemental funding or fy21 appropriations levels we must be prudent and prepare for the situation at hand while hoping for it the best. We are implementing our plans to adjust our service and work force levels beginning in october. As difficult as these actions are if we do not take such cost saving measures and fail to receive supplemental funding we anticipate burning nearly 250 million each month. At this rate of loss we would be forced to traik drastic measures with long lasting impacts on the company, on our employees and on our network. As you know we have already reduced service on both the northeast corridor and state supported routes. And we now plan to extend temporarily frequency adjustments to most of our Long Distance trains. But let me be clear these adjustments are temporary. There is no secret plan or hidden agenda as critics may suggest. Ive heard your concerns loud and clear. And please know im 100 committed to our Long Distance network and to its future. By way of example we continue to make investments that demonstrate this commitment today, and i can point to our purchase of 75 Diesel Locomotives for this service line. We must make difficult work force adjustments as we cannot continue to indempt fund a work force too large for the number of passengers were serving. Many states have told us they will be unable to partner with amtrak unless we reduce our cost to better align with ridership. Having grown up in a rail labor family i know how hard furloughs can be, and were working hard to minimize impacts to our employees. Earlier this year we implemented several cost saving measures, but given the continued lack of riders and uncertain funding we plan to reduce our work force by approximately 2,050 agreement and management positions. Going forward we will do everything in our power to return furloughed employees to work as soon as possible, and we are going beyond our contractual requirements to provide extended Health Care Coverage during this period. Inner city Passenger Rail remains one of the safetiest, most efficient and most sustainable forms of transportation. Once the pandemic passes amtrak stands ready to grow and serve more of america in large cities and in rural communities. Thereby providing thousands of good living wage jobs for skilled employees in the process. Please know that i am committed to working flow this crisis with you and with other stakeholders to manage these nearterm challenges while safeguarding amtraks future. Thank you for your time and support, and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Flynn. We will now move onto mr. I hope i pronounced that correctly this time. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i want to thank you for allowing me to speak today on the impact of covid19 on the amtrak work force. Im the National President of the Transportation Communications unit. Tcu is the largest unit on amtrak representing approximately 6,800 workers in the clerical im here on behalf of amtrak workers to urge congress and President Trump act now and preserve our railroad, protect amtrak workers from getting furloughed and reauthorize the extension and expansion of party wide benefits so that thousands of railroaders continue to put food on the table. Today the immediate future of amtraks work force is large and uncertain. With the additional funds from the cares act drying up the overall ridership has been severely reduced compared to last year. Cam track now stands at the edge of a fiscal cliff. This house of representatives passed their fy21 bill which included 10 billion in operating capitol, the Emergency Response grants for amtrak and requirements to maintain the work force and route frequencies. On behalf of amtrak workers i call on the senate to pass the house bill for President Trump to sign it today. The covid crisis has been a nightmare for all of us, particularly for the transportation sector. Thats why tcu has now spoken about the size of amtrak. Last week amtrak finally increased their fy 21 supplemental request to 2. 9 billion which includes maintaining the work force in Long Distance frequencies. Unfortunately they also began issuing furlough notices in the Event Congress doesnt provide adequate funding. Just to be clear amtrak receives no supplementing funding on october 1st the damage will be catastrophic. According to Amtrak Service cuts would be severe. And furloughs would amount to approximately 60 of the work force. These are the same front Line Transportation workers that have been coming in to workday after day during the pandemic at great risk to themselves and their families. Many have contracted the virus. Some have died. You can understand my frustration why amtrak workers are so scared for their future. While Many Americans have had a luxury working from home these amtrak workers have putting their lives on the line to keep our fragile economy moving. Our people have sacrificed and now theyre faced with losing their jobs october 1st. These people need action and need it now. Unfortunately, amtrak workers are indeed furloughed. The cares act, expansion of railroad insurance has already expired. At least thousands of railroaders will be immediately thrown into a system thats already under immense pressure. President trumps memo addressing Unemployment Insurance attempts to provide a 300 expanded benefit of regular state based Unemployment Insurance. Unfortunately President Trumps bill does nothing for railroaders. It doesnt even mention Railroad Unemployment issues. And to make matters worse unlike any other Unemployment Insurance program in the country Railroad Unemployment is unique since it is the only one this means not only will furloughed railroaders not receive the expanded benefits but the regular checks will be reduced by 6 . This is unfair and congress should fix this today. Fortunately, this house of representatives has once again already paved the way. The heroes act included both an extension and expansion of ruy as well as removing it from sequesttration. On both auy and amtrak funding we urge the senate to act now to prevent the kind of economic collapse that would occur if our transportation modes and workers are left to wither on the vine. I thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you. Next well have ms. Griffon. Ms. Griffon, you may proceed. Chairman lipinski, Ranking Member crawford and members of the committee, on behalf of the members of the transport Workers Union of america thank you for holding this important hearing to discuss the damaging impacts covid19 has had on amtrak Front Line Workers as well as the railroads response. The twu represents over 150,000 members at railroads, airlines, transit systems and other industries. Tw members like other critical Front Line Workers across the country have suffered greatly from this virus and the economic fall out. More than 90 of tw members including all of our members at amtrak are front Line Transportation workers who have been deemed essential during this pandemic. Only 10 of tw members have tested positive or been quarantined from the virus. However, these numbers do not account for additional emotional and mental toll the virus has taken on me and my colleagues. Despite the serious challenges tw members have continued to provide essential services across the country. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to share both my own experience and experience of amtrak workers during the covid19 crisis. This is an issue in which our union is unfortunately all too familiar. As a lead service attendant Onboard Service for 32 years, president of transport Workers Union local 1460, and most importantly as an american i feel it is my duty to serve under these dire circumstances. Amtrak workers have persevered through this crisis by relying on each other more than the railroad. At the beginning of the crisis when amtrak claimed it could not find masks or sanitizer for our members the twu secured proper ppe and distributed it to the Front Line Work force. Today while access to protective equipment supplies is no longer an issue weve been forced to trade best practices between ourselves and the companys policies with the Front Line Work force with much more risk of exposure. This past july while working my regular position as lead service attendant on the d. C. To boston amtrak route i was notified by my supervisor that contact and being exposed to an employee who tested positive for covid19. Despite the significantly increased chance of spreading the virus, the Railroad Still expected me to work the rest of my scheduled days without seeking testing. Fearing the possibility of infecting passengers and coworkers on my train i elevated concerns ultimately told i would work the trip back from boston to d. C. Potentially exposing hundreds of passengers needlessly. And then id be taken out of service at the end of the route. And the next day i was not removed from service. After again elevating the situation through my union i was finally taken offline and told to quarantine for 14 days. However, the railroad abruptly ended the quarantine early and was never tested for covid19 before i returned to work. My experience is typical of the approach amtrak is taking toward the work force and potential spread of covid19. Theres currently a lack of coach cleaners as a result of the coronavirus. Amtrak has chosen to leave these positions vacant making it harder for the cleaners to sanitize the cars properly. The Front Line Work force is working hard every day to overcome these unnecessary handicaps and keeping the traveling public safe. This is why its extremely heartening why amtrak plans to furlough 20 of us for us beginning in october. As many as 10,000 workers at the railroads would be impacted by these reductions. Every one of these workers is key to responding to the current pandemic and to our economic recovery. These are devastating numbers that require immediate action from congress. Amtraks management repeat decisions make it clear these cuts are not necessary in any case. For example, management has committed to restarting the 401k match for themselves beginning in october just as the first set of Front Line Workers will be sent into unemployment. In november pandemic pay cuts for management expire and they will return to full pay. Meanwhile Onboard Service workers remain in significantly reduced hours for the foreseeable future. We urge amtrak to reverse course and prioritize the rank and file Front Line Workers who interact directly with our riders rather than themselves. All this will be much easier if congress can come together to provide at least 4. 5 billion in Additional Support for the railroad. This money would not just keep thousands employed but preserve safe and healthy rail travel for the communities we serve. Thank you for allowing me to speak today, and i look forward to any questions you may have. Thank you, ms. Griffith. Mr. Matthews, you may now proceed. Good morning. Thank you for all the members of this subcommittee for your leadership on Passenger Rail. Im jim matthews, president and ceo of the Rail Passengers association. We are the oldest and Largest Group speaking for more than 40 million americans who rely on trains of all kinds, Long Distance, short corridor and commuters. We know amtrak faces tough choices from the pandemic, but our members have watched with growing alarm since may as plans take shape to degrade essential service by cutting 12 out of 15 Long Distance routes to only 3 times a week. This morning id like to highlight the crucial modeling. It would inflict staggering economic damage in americas heartland but produce only minuscule savings. Were glad to see the bold vision this committee laid forward but also glad to see house appropriators respond to your vision by providing 12 million in amtrak grants for fiscal 21. Were also glad to hear amtrak is working withia on a no harm supplemental request to at least maintain nationwide Daily Service and prevent massive layoffs. We support this request wholeheartedly. Failure to act on some kind of bare bones supplemental would deal a catastrophic blow truly essential Daily Service and the foundation for future growth. But even a bare bones supplemental would mean great hardship for millions of americans and hundreds of smaller and rural communities. No more than 62 Million People live in socalled flyover country. A quarter are veterans, another quarter are seniors over 65. Inner city rail has always played an outsized role in these towns. Passengers with Health Problems can more easily and safely make socially distant trips on amtrak. The numbers tell this story. Since the pandemic began in march through the end of july any sea ridership was down nearly 90 , but Long Distance routes were off only 68 . Today during covid Long Distance makes up 45 of amtraks revenues compared to 21 a year ago and has contributed to the largest single share of amtrak revenues every day since march. Thathat could all change september 1st if congress cant act. If i could have our slides, please. Weve always said Passenger Rails and economic engine is in americas heartland. In 2018 we codeveloped a rail benefits model with the southern mississippis trentlock center. Next slide, please. And we found the 12 routes in amtraks cross hairs contribute some 4. 8 billion to the community served every single year. Next slide, please. I can also report today that cutting Daily Service could drop at least 2. 3 billion bomb on flyover country while possibly only saving amtrak, it could only save 3 billion. Some amtrak communities will be hit especially hard thats because several big airlines now say theyll drop service when the cares act expires. In fact of 68 cities facing air cut backs nearly half, 31 of them from sacramento to san antonio and charleston and tampa, these routes touch nearly every corner of our country. The empire builder from 8 states to illinois to washington those towns face a nearly 400 million blow. Between illinois and louisiana today produces nearly 134 million in economic benefits. Simply put the drastically reduced utility of a nationwide Network Operating only 3 a week on mismatched schedules making connections difficult or impossible will gut these services, and snatching as much as 3. 1 bill from our hardworking heartland for the sake of only 213 million in service to amtrak seems to us to be bad public policy. Amtrak tried this in 1994, it didnt work then and not going to work now. Passengers travel for the same reasons today as they did then and theyll skip the ride for the very same reason. Fewer locomotives mean less fuel burn but continued service means continued opportunities to earn badly needed revenue. The largest single pandemic contributor since march. When gas tax revenues flat lined congress didnt let the administration close highways four days out of seven. Congress shouldnt stand by and allow our National Railroad to impose service on many of our hardworking towns, towns in which in many cases can afford it the least. Strong investment could at the very least improving Daily Service will stave off disaster in flyover country. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Matthews. Well now move onto question each member recognized for five minutes. And ill begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. Mr. Flynn, ms. Griffon mentioned this in her testimony, and i was made aware that amtrak down hall on july 29th that you attended your team say the 401k match will return october 1st and the pay cut for certain Management Employees that they took will be restored in early november. Can you confirm that this information is accurate . And if it is, do you think its appropriate to restore the 401k matches and the pay for Management Employees when youre furloughing over 2,000 employees and cutting vital Train Service . Thank you for your question, mr. Chairman. So, yes, it is accurate that during that town hall meeting we discussed restoring the 401k match. At the beginning of the pandemic we took the initiative to reduce expenses, and i remember to that in my remarks. And so we did cut the 401k match for all Management Employees. The 401k program put in place some years earlier when we eliminated the good fined benefit pension plan, and in exchange for eliminating was viewed to be a very attractive pension plan with a much lower cost 401k match, we cut those expenses at the beginning of the pandemic. We thought it was an appropriate action to take because while it would have impact to total compensation for our employees it wasnt an immediate takehome pay. But weve heard loud and clear from our employees that taking that match away had Significant Impact to them, and ill point out of course there were no cuts to any agreement benefits at that time. So considering the equities of the situation it made sense to us to restore the 401k match at the beginning of october. On a voluntary basis we well, for me on a voluntary basis i elected to take no compensation when i joined the company at the beginning of april 15th in view of what the economic crisis that our company was suffering. We took substantial cuts across our management ranks, and when i compare those cuts to reductions of other Management Teams and other Transportation Industries have taken, i believe those cuts were larger and deeper in terms of how far down the management ranks went. Mr. Flynn, i do appreciate that. I appreciate taking no compensation. The question is should this be restored to management while were furloughing Front Line Workers . My view is were restoring a basic level of pay considering all the equities to ensure we also retain now a Smaller Group of management people as a result of furloughs so that we can properly run the railroad. Well, i think thats not going to be looked on well just for the equity, but lets move on. If Congress Gives you the 4. 8 billion by october 1st you indicated will you commit rescinding the furloughs and rescinding the cuts to longer Distance Service . Ill commit well do as directed by congress, and if that 4. 9 million instructs us to rescind the furloughs and rescind the furlough cuts well do that. If congress does not provide any additional supplemental funding in the covid relief bill or appropriations package what other cuts can we expect the workers in service . Excuse me, mr. Chairman, is that providing the 2 billion and nothing else or providing nothing . Lets say if 2 billion was provided . Wed be in a very difficult position as a company, mr. Chairman. As i mentioned in my testimony our cash burn is about 250 million a month right now. And so we would have to make very dramatic reductions across the company in order to stave off bankruptcy i would argue in the longterm. Certainly very, very significant challenges to run this company or operate this company on behalf of our customers and with employees in the nearterm. So substantial reductions in all services and perhaps elimination of some services if thats the cash burn were having and no supplementing funding. Itd be good to see what those would be just as were looking at providing funding. As i said i support providing the funding, but we want to know what that would what additional cuts may be, and im running out of time here, so for the purpose of the record are you willing to work with me to amicably resolve some local issues i have including Something Union station disputes for a new amtrak stop on the Lincoln Service . So i just wanted to get you on the record will you work with me to resolve these help to resolve these local issues . I certainly will, mr. Chairman. And as i mentioned i did meet with metro ceo, and we talked about very useful measures we can take, and well continue to work to resolve our differences. Thank you, appreciate it. My time has expired. I will now recognize mr. Crawford for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. There flynn, in your testimony you stated the leading cause to delays in our Long Distance trains is the failure of some of our host railroads to comply with this longstanding legal obligation to provide amtrak trains with preference over their tracks. Can you clarify that remark . Thank you, Ranking Member crawford. We stand by our remarks we publish every month, and our statistics which are Available Online the number of minutes of delay that we experience on each of our host railroads and have done that for quite a long period of time. We regularly and routinely find passenger trains are not given preference over Freight Railroads, thats what our statistics in our experience reflect, and thats why in part we were encouraged in the invest act theres language there that would provide us a private right of action to be able to enforce our statutory rights. Ive been closely following the metrics and standard rule making out of the fra understanding the need for providing amtrak ridership and riders with a safe and positive experience. It would make sense for me for amtrak to revisit schedules to account for actual run time. Can you explain . Well, were working with the fra to have the new standard of metric rule finally issued. That hasnt been issued yet. We are in regular routine correspondence and communications with the fra about the schedules we have in place and how those schedules could be adjusted. We have a team of people here simply dedicate today the working relationship with our Class One Railroads, they speak with the Class One Railroads regularly and in some cases at least once a week on the different scheduling cases we have. Can you confirm amtrak is willing to lengthen schedules where its appropriate . Im not sure i can answer that question. Im not sure what it means. I dont know what appropriate means from the Railroad Point of view. We need to really dig into the details, and we need a final rule on standards and metrics for me to be able to do that. Okay, thank you. And i yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mr. Crawford. Chair will now recognize for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You know, a lot has been made of the use of enhanced cleaning procedures, advanced systems, limited reservations, a lot of cleaning. What has been the feedback from Rail Passengers . Thank you for that question, congressman. The feedback has actually been very positive. Both in terms of our Customer Service satisfaction i should say surveys and focus groups we have with our customers. We have regular focus groups virtually with our most frequent passengers, and i can say also antidoty i ride our trains between new york and d. C. Quite regularly. I get to speak with our Onboard Service staff and customers and weve received im certainly always available to meet with them when its representing our customers. And as i mentioned in my remarks and my filed testimony we continue to investigate what more we can do to enhance that environment. So they certainly are aware of your efforts . I believe they are, and we continually communicate all the steps that we have taken, all the different actions weve made different actions weve not only taken in terms of cleaning and cleaning protocols, but weve enhanced our communications with our customers to give them more information about service, about the trains. For example, if you were to book a train today you could understand the level of booking is and you may find you want to pook a train. Those are the kind of enhancements we provide and we communicate them. The question i have also about the furloughs is have you broken it down for state, for example, new jersey . How many people will lose their jobs if this were to go through . So we talk about 1,950 furloughs that were going to announce. Theyre going to occur in october, and they are by craft. And they will depend on it could well be that a person works in new york but resides in new jersey, so thats further work we need to do. But we can certainly provide that. Because i represent the northern part of the state which is fairly congested, and a lot of people work on amtrak. So i was just wondering what the impact was going to be in that area of people being furloughed. I want to get back to you with the acronym information, but i do understand that the number of employees who will be furloughed who identify themselves as new jersey residents is a relatively small number. And i mean something less than 25. For new jersey . Yes, sir. So i assume that these what we will is that the reason the reason is it because its the northeast corridor and very active yes, sir. But well be happy to provide the Committee Staff with the numbers by state so all the members can have that information. Okay, i appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chair will now recognize mr. Graves for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. And my questions for mr. Flynn and im very optimistic given your draft to the private sector youre going to be able to complete that mandate for profitability. And i know its obviously not an ideal situation to take over a business in the middle of a pandemic. Can you just give the committee your perspective on how you or your ideas on how you are going to be able to achieve, you know, that mandate and hopefully turn amtrak around and make it profitable . Thank you Ranking Member graves. Thats a great question. What we find and believe of course we are in a pandemic. Earlier in the year we might have thought that the shape of recovery would look perhaps like a v or look like a u, but thats not the case. What we believe, of course, is that the service we provide is essential, that there is real demand for our service. And as we come out of that pandemic there will be a combination of regaining prior customers as well as attracting new customers to our services. And were engaged in some of that now. At the end of fiscal year 19 we had as a company had dramatically reduced losses on an adjusted operating income basis, and well on track to have its first positive year in 2020. What that tells me is that our customers value the service that we provide. And the results were such that the amount of variance we were generating in 19 and into 2020 meant that the supplemental grants we could get from congress we would get from congress. We could use for Capital Investment and infrastructure thats needed here. I believe that future is still out there for amtrak. I think its a few years away because we still dont know what the shape of the recovery is. But our vision is growth and expansion. Theres a true demand for inner city Rail Passenger service in the corridor from our states in our Long Distance network and in particular on many metropolitan corridors that exist on that. So i was excite today have the opportunity to leave amtrak when i accepted the position at the beginning of the year. I had a belief in there what the future could be, and i still hold that belief. Its just further out in the future now than i might have thought of in early march. I appreciate it, and thanks again for your testimony, and i yield back mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Paine for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to speak and welcome all the witnesses. The cares act included an important section that provided payroll grants to airlines and their contractors so that airline employees would be kept on payroll and avoid furloughs. The term of that requirement is set to expire at the end of this month. Do you think do you think that any care act extensions any extension of the care act payroll grant provision should be extended to amtrak employees as well, and thats to all the witnesses. Mr. Flynn . Okay, thank you. We did receive just over a billion dollars in the cares act. We have not furloughed any of our employees at this point in time. The furloughs that we have announced take effect in october. In our supplemental grant discussions and submissions we have identified the amount of supplemental funding that would be required. Okay, anyone else . Yes, mr. Congressman. We would definitely support extending the cares act. In my testimony before the cares act funding protections in Long Distance frequencies mr. Paine, id like to add to that from the point of view of Rail Passengers. Our passengers really do rely on those front line employees particularly when you start looking at the number of disabled folks, elderly folks, people who need that extra hand. We really would very much hate to see anything happen to some of those folks. Our friend at tcu and twu, and not onlien the trains but even in the call centers, for example now if youre looking at the strange connection pattern that were going to see three times weekly and the connections in chicago planning a trip is going to become an incredibly complicated exercise on having expert track employees on the other side of that phone line to make that connection clear to a passenger is also going to be very important. Whether youre looking at folks on the trains or dealing with customers we would be very supportive for those folks. Thank you. And mr. Flynn, understand that covid19 has up ended the Transportation Industry across the country and cost amtrak billions in lost revenue. We know the amtrak plans to furlough those 2,000 employees, approximately 10 of the work force. Im sure these furloughs are your attempt to mitigate these revenue losses. Were here because amtrak has requested 4. 9 billion in additional funding from congress to deal with the revenue shortfall. Amtrak is a public entity, and the profits should not be the priority. Passenger safety and Service Quality must be priorities. What would happen if congress failed to provide the funding youre requesting . Thank you, congressman paine. Well, first, i fully agree with you that safety is number one priority and safety informs everything we do regardless of the level of funding. The level of funding affects the level of operations but never the level of safety. If we are not able to achieve supplemental funding make substantial service redpukzs across the company and that would also mean wed have to adjust that we have. In addition wed also have to reduce our level of capital expenditure. Capital expenditure, of course and some of the other longer term Capital Projects such as our bridges and tunnels. Okay, well, thank you and my time is up and i yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Paine. I just want to remind everyone to make sure you mute when youre not speaking and hopefully mr. Flynn also the connection seemed to be going down hopefully it will get back to the way it was. The chair will now recognize mr. Perry for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and ill address my questions to mr. Flynn as well. In your written testimony it states amtrak was on track to generate revenues exceeding operating expenses for the fy 2020 for the first time ever. In other words amtrak was going to turn a profit before covid19 devastated ridership. And in truth that would be welcome news to taxpayers, and i dont think i need to remind you american taxpayers provided amtrak to nearly 1 billion in subsidies. And i heard you talk to the Ranking Member about the same claim if i can use that term. Im just wondering can you explain then why amtrak counts state funded operation subsidies as passenger revenue but does not count federal subsidies in the same manner because it seems to me im not familiar with this accounting standard whereby you leave certain things out and put certain things in. Also complain why amtrak does not include depreciation costs and total expenses for its unaudited monthly performance report but includes these costs in total expenses for amtraks audited Financial Reports. These practices appear to be done in my opinion to hide the amount of losses amtrak runs every year. But i certainly want to give you the benefit of the doubt. And how do these Accounting Practices improve the ability of amtrak, congress or the American People for that matter to evaluate amtraks financial viability . Thank you, congressman perry. Can you hear me okay . I do hear you loud and clear at the moment. Okay, good, well, thank you very much. Your question gets to reporting. Are we reporting on a gap basis or adjusted operating income basis. The numbers i refer to me in my answer to several of the other members so far were indeed talking in terms of adjusted operating income, which in the private sector it would often be called and you also mentioned this does not include depreciation and this is exactly right. The largest difference between operating income and gap is an exclusion for purposes. Many countries across various industries often talk about some form of operating adjusted income to provide investors with as an accurate a view of the core operating results of the company. The gap of course is the bottom line, and we report on that. The biggest number is depreciation which largely addresses the catchup in investing the company is doing in fleet and other infrastructure that hadnt been done for many years. Buts we report both, and both are available on the amtrak website. Im just going to because i want to move onto a couple of other questions, i remain unconvinced about the difference between state and federal subsidies and how theyre reported. I dont see the difference and i dont think many of my bosses, my constituents do either. Amtrak fundamental funding request includes 4. 9 billion in anticipated expenses for fy 21 to operate and invest in the network. According to amtraks own figures, though, total expenses were 4. 198 billion. Can you explain why is this such an advanced difference . This is lot of money. Whats the difference there . 4. 89 million to 4. 9 billion . I want to just come back to your state question for just a second please. So the state revenues are reported in other revenue and its what the state pays to actually perform service. So we operate quite a few state supported trains. And for example in pennsylvania the harrisburg to philadelphia line, the keystone is a state supported train. They sell the tickets, they put a price on those tickets and pay us the operating cost of running the train and maintaining track infrastructure. Based on earn stn young, he provided us the accounting guidance that said thats where you should properly account for the revenues or moneys you receive from the state because youre providing a physical service. Wed be happy to meet with your office or provide more detail. Im out of time. But without being difficult could you please repeat the question . I was think of the answer of your prior question. Im out of time, but i would like to know the difference between the 4. 9 billion request and the 4. 198 billion expense for 2019. Like why is there such a delta there . Thats a lot of money, and im trying to figure out what the difference is there. I think the expense there is a total expense on a gap basis, and so theres hundreds of millions of dollars of depreciation in that number. The 4. 9 billion request as we go forward on fy 21 first of all addresses the revenue shortfalls that were experiencing as a result of the drop in ridership. It includes moneys if congress so directs if we do not file for furlough employees, and includes operating expenses for the Long Distance network if were directed to operate a seven day service. It also includes moneys for the states and commuter railroads based on what they have told us they you know, what they need and what revenues, frankly, they do not have but still want us to continue to operate at a higher level of service. Wed be very happy to meet with your office or your staff and provide greater detail since were out of time on that question, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield the balance. Thank you. The chair will now recognize ms. Fletcher for 5 minutes. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. And thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. This is an important hearing, and im glad to have the witnesses here to testify about the covid19 pandemics impact that are evident across so many sectors. From the Energy Industry here in my district to Transportation Systems across the country sectors are under strain from the disruption and the danger the pandemic presents, and amtrak as we discussed and heard about already have plans to furlough several hundred Onboard Service workers beginning in october because of the uncertainty in funding they say, and that is something unfortunately were seeing across the country and is of particular concern here i know for this committee. So while congress did provide in the cares act im concerned that the billion dollars that was provided has fallen short when amtraks overall revenue is down 82 in july and this aid ozwn important lifeline, but we still dont know if amtrak still has yet to provide a detailed accounting how it spent those funds from the cares act, so im concerned but also would like to know how and when we will know how the cares act funding has been spent. So mr. Flynn, could you first address when a detailed accounting of cares act funding can be completed and made available to congress and the public . Well, thank you. Thank you, ms. Fletcher. We are closely tracking every dollar that we spend under the cares act, and the amtrak oig recently issued i wouldnt say a full report but an interim update on amtraks expenditure and recording of the tracking of those expenditures just several weeks ago. In addition, we provide the fra and the Committee Staff with detailed accounting of how we have expended so far the cares moneys that weve been provided and would be happy to provide that to your office so you can have those details because we are reporting that now on an ongoing basis. Thank you. That would be useful for i think all of us to have that and to address this question of the funding. Also in your testimony, mr. Flynn, you mentioned the metrics amtrak claims to use to decide when to bring back daily Long Distance service on each route, and the factors, future demand measured by weather customers are booking trips and if the current performance or how close it is. I to claimed projections. I believe that cutting Long Distance service to the three days per week may unavoidably slash demand because the Service Becomes less convenient for passengers and certainly we heard some concerns from our colleagues in the northeast corridor, we know in other parts of the country where there is less frequent service there is an impact on demand. So given that predicament, how will amtrak guarantee the long term prospects of the daily Long Distance routes . Thank you. Our view is well continually evaluate our Long Distance services with the view to restoring our Long Distance services and that is our commitment. And you talked about the three areas we want to look at. First of all just the state of the pandemic. Has it subsided or are we in a situation where we have a phase two or a second wave of the pandemic and that is just practical and common sense. The other thing in that Public Health that were going to be looking at is whether there is, indeed, an effective vaccine or vaccines that have been developed and are also effectively being distributed and made available to the public. Because we believe that is absolutely the Inflection Point as to when the public is going to feel safer about traveling again. In terms of level of ridership, it is comparing the level of ridership against a low level of capacity that already exists. So were not going to compare the level of ridership or future demand in 21 against 19 because theyre simply not comparable, and the ratio, the level of utilization or load factor that well be looking at would be load factor against already reduced capacity or frequency. So it would account for perhaps a lower level of ridership as a result of the lower level of frequency. And then the third area, congresswoman, that well look at is just our state of the company and what level of funding have we received. So i think the three pretty common sense metrics to look at, it is something that well look at on a continual basis and our goal here is grow our company, not shrink our company. And as we come through the pandemic and see demand improve and we clearly want to grow the company and that would include certainly our Long Distance network. And one other point ill make, were certainly going to need the help and the cooperation of our host railroads in order to not only restore service but grow service. Thank you. Thank you so much. I have used up all of my time so i would thank you for your answers and thank all of our witnesses for being here and i will yield back. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Rodney davis, rodney, we hope that you are doing well. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Appreciate that. And great to be with you. Sorry i couldnt get on the call earlier. Had Something Else already previously scheduled. Mr. Flynn, welcome. Great to see you again. I look forward to continuing to work with you in this new capacity of yours. I dont know if youre aware of this or not, but one of my constituents, one of my local mayors, has been nominated to serve on your board of directors, mayor chris coos out of normal, illinois. I certainly hope the senate can confirm and the rest of the slate so they can get to work. He knows the issues with amtrak in illinois inside and out. Im proud to have him servicing with you and i look forward to you and he working together. I know that this is a tough time as my colleagues have mentioned. As you mentioned in your testimony, mr. Flynn. Financially for amtrak, passengership, ridership, those numbers have gone down. But now i think it is the time to address some of the institutional issues that exist with Ontime Service for amtrak while the Passenger Ship and the ridership is not at levels where it is impacting them. We have an issue with the saluki express and the illini express in Central Illinois with Ontime Service, and theres always been a conflict between the local railroad, who owns those tracks, and Amtrak Service, and it seems like a constant game of back and forth. Now id like to get your commitment to work with the railroad, especially in those two lines, to try to address the short shun issue that has been driving some of these Ontime Service issues when the Passenger Ship is higher and what are you doing now with ridership down to address some of those concerns, mr. Flynn . Thank you, congressman davis. It is good to see you again. We are well you raise an excellent point. So with lower levels of train operations, indeed our level of ontime performance frankly has improved, and some of those lower levels of operations are indeed class1 host railroads which suggests to me that real improvement is available and achievement and why we were excited to see it in the legislation, the right of private action. We are specifically in illinois in discussion with the Canadian National on levels of service and on operations. Certainly for the illini and the saluki and for other operations that we have in and out of chicago. And our belief is while covid certainly has created challenges for the Long Distance services, frankly all of our other services, the number one issue we have in Long Distance service is cooperation with the class 1 railroads to deliver a much higher level of ontime performance. I personally have spoken with the ceo of Canadian National but our teams are working with them on a regular basis. I believe it is solvable. But it has to be solved and it hasnt been. Well, i appreciate that. And agree with you, mr. Flynn. I hosted a Community Roundtable with representatives of amtrak and of the cn in champagne, illinois, and urbana, illinois, a few months before covid hit and i was assured by the cm and also by amtrak that we were this close to the Technological Advancement that would make sure we were ready to address the ontime performance of those two lines in particular, which have abysmal ontime performance measures. I hope as we move forward that you could reiterate to the cn and i will do the same, that we certainly hope that this technology could and should be tested now just to see if it addresses some of the short shunt issues on those two lines. Because if were not testing it now and if theres not the cooperation now, im afraid were going to go back to the same old same old once we get there. If i can be helpful in urging the cn to work with you on testing this technology, please let me know, or if you have other ideas, i would like to give you the rest of my time to make those ideas known. Thank you, sir. So we certainly understand that testing that needs to be accomplished with the short shunting situation and the folks and the technology thats going to test that are from the uk, and so we indeed, im not going to blame everything on covid, but this is one situation where i do believe that covid19 has had an impact to get this testing done. Certainly something that we want to do. And our job certainly is to improve the level of service everywhere and certainly on these routes. Well, great. I just got off another call with members of parliament from the uk. So maybe we can get some maybe we can get the technology installed and provide the Technical Assistance via web service or zoom. Im sure chairman lipinski could help us with that. I yield back my time. I took it all. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We will now move on to mr mr. Malinowski. Youre now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you mr. Flynn. I could only begin to imagine what it is like to take this leadership position at amtrak at the moment of such crisis when ridership is down 95 . And i want to tell you how much we appreciate how much responsibility you are bearing on your shoulders right now, and your willingness to serve in this job, and to take our tough questions. Were all trying to pull together and keep this extraordinary railroad strong to help it survive this crisis. I do want to come back, speaking of tough questions, though, to topic that chairman lipinski raised with you about the 401 k contributions and the furloughs. And i listened to your answer. I completely understand where youre coming from. I completely understand why an amtrak employee would want to see those contributions resume. But im, i think, somewhat more concerned about those employees who may no longer be employees soon if theyre furloughed or lose their jobs. I have constituents in that category. Just heard from one this morning, in fact. And, you know, i wonder, for example, if you believe that you have to move in this direction, why restore the full 7 . Why not 2 or 3 . Why did amtrak decide to move forward the date of restoration from january to october . Because originally you told the employees it would be january and now youre telling them october. Is this all or nothing here, given the fact that so many people may lose their jobs . Thank you for the question, congressman malinowski. The decision, the restoration decision was really, i would call it, balancing the equities that were involved. The vast majority of our employees that were talking about are front line managers and supervisors who often are making less than the agreement employees that they supervise. And their benefits are not as rich as the benefits can be for our organized employees. We were hearing loud and clear from our Employee Base how concerned they were about the lack of the match. I had explained earlier i think to chairman lipinski that the 7 contribution is substantially less than what the contribution would be under a defined benefit plan that prior existed here. So it was a management call, sir, and i thought along with the Senior Leadership team that it seemed to be the right thing to do at the time. In part considering retention of the employees. It is tough to furlough anyone. It is tough to lay anyone off. I come from a Railroad Family myself. My i was 6, 7 years old, my father was furloughed and he was a locomotive engineer on the new haven railroad, and i dont remember all the details but i remember the anxiety our family felt when that hamanned. And as a at 6 or 7, i dont remember a lot but i do remember that period of time. So it was a difficult decision personally. We dont have that much time. Could you convey to us whether you know it now or after the hearing how much this is going to cost so that we could help evaluate this balance, because you have to balance laying people off and paying people these benefits, which they richly deserve, agree with you. But either way there is a cost and it would help us understand the balancing decision better if we knew exactly how much this would cost. Off the top of my head, i dont have the number. But i would be very happy to what about bonuses . I also understand amtrak does have bonus programs for its Management Employees, bonuses tied to performance. Well our bonuses are wiped out. No bonuses this year and our longterm incentive bonuses or the longterm Incentive Plan is wiped out for the next three years. On a happier note, the portal bridge, the first part of the gateway project, we got the first grant announcement from the fda. Could you give us an update on moving toward the construction phase of that incredibly important project. It is incredibly important as you say. And were working closely with new Jersey Transit to ensure that the fta, the federal Transit Administration has everything they need so they could enter into the full Funding Grant agreement that is required and were also very pleased to see the d. O. T. Commit more than 765 million to the project, and were hoping for the possible start of construction in early 2021. Thats certainly a very important project for us and for all of our customers. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Malinowski. The chair will now recognize mr. Babin for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Really appreciate it. I wanted to ask questions of mr. Flynn as well. Appreciate all of our witnesses being here. But mr. Flynn, according to the cato institute, amtrak currently received a federal subsidy of roughly 30 cents per passenger mile, and compare that to the Aviation Industry, which receives a subsidy of roughly 1 cent per mile. Do you believe this is an appropriate balance here, of our passenger mile for amtrak . Thank you, sir. Im not specifically aware of the numbers but i could certainly address the question. The subsidy, we are due to be an essential service. We are receiving the subsidies as you point out. We are generating an operational on an operating income adjusted basis and in fiscal year 19 and into 20 we were generating a surplus on our northeast corridor, essentially a break even level of operation in our state supported network, perhaps a few pennies here and there. But the operational subsidy fundamentally underpins Long Distance services. So the vast majority, if not all of that subsidy, if we were to do it on a service line basis, would be in the Long Distance service. Okay. It just seems to be a quite of a discrepancy between 30 times greater than what were seeing for the Aviation Industry. The second question would be when amtrak received over 1 billion as part of the c. A. R. E. S. Act, here in congress we were expected that this was going to help avoid layoffs and furloughs. However, amtrak announced it would potentially be cutting roughly 3,700 jobs by october 1st, 2020, while increase fiscal year 2021 funding request by almost 1. 5 billion. How do you reconcile cutting those jobs while asking for a dramatic increase in the amount of 1. 5 billion . Thank you, sir. The one slightly above 1 billion that were fortunate to receive in the c. A. R. E. S. Act addressed our level of operations in fiscal year 2020. In early march, when we were first trying to gauge the impact of the level of ridership in the pandemic, we anticipated about a 50 level of ridership in fy 21 as compared to fy 19 which is our last full normal year. That simply hasnt happened. Our level of ridership is going to be about 34 of fy 19. The request that we supplemental request we made in may, as you point out, was just about 1. 5 billion. It presupposed that we would have some level of furloughs as well as a reduction in the Long Distance service and about 500 million of cost reductions that as a Management Team we would achieve. In part through furloughs and in part through other operating expenses being reduced. Okay. And then ive got about a minute left or so. What is your plan for amtrak to increase ridership to restore services and work toward achieving and making a profit in the next few years . I know that is a big question, but if you could answer, hit some of the high points about your plans. Thank you, sir. Well our plan is indeed to grow our company. We are going to have a very challenging 2021. I dont know about 2022 at this point, but it will be difficult, i imagine. We wont see ridership levels start to return until we have a vaccine that is widely distributed and the public assumes that conditions have changed. We could restore services on our Long Distance network and restore services in the nec and we could increase the level of state supported routes and frankly many of the states were looking for increased levels of service before covid pandemic. I believe that there is the great demand and latent demand and real demand for our services after covid and i think that we can grow on new corridors as well as regain customers that we have and importantly attract new customers to our business. That is a very high level, very quick answer, but theres a lot of thought and detail behind that, sir. Okay. Thank you. My time has expired so i appreciate that very much. We wish you the very best. Thank you. And mr. Chairman, i will yield back. Thank you. Thank you. Chair will now recognize mrs. Napolitano for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. Mr. Griffin and mr. Marty, are you concerned with covid will be used as an excuse to furlough employees permanently even when ridership levels return . Thank you for the question and yes, i am. Mr. Marte . Yes, congresswoman, yes, i do believe they will use covid19 as an excuse to furlough people. Quite frankly in the written brief that we just saw, theyre looking for workful concessions that were shot to us. We never heard of anything. They use that as an excuse. Mr. Flynn, do you share your budget reports with labor . Can you hear me congresswoman . Yes. Yes, we do. We keep our labor informed of really everything that we do no, your budget reports. Your budget reports. Actually your expenses. What youre expending on c. A. R. E. S. Act with covid . So, yes, all of our Financial Reports are publicly available on our website. No, no, i mean directly to them. Not the public. Well, im not specifically aware that we formally send them a report every month. But we have, indeed, shared our results with labor and we speak with them, many labor leaders on a regular basis. All right, ms. Griffin and mr. Maratea, do you have any comment . Ms. Griffin . Yes, congresswoman, we have never received any financial updates. That might be on the website but we never received them. Ms. Griffin . Ive never received any. It would behoove the agency to share with them so they know what the money is spending, if youre doing the 401 k to certain people, what justifies your being able to do that. Then the next question i have, im from california and three of the five business state supported routes are in california. Has the ridership on these routes not on the northeast corridor diminished to the same proportion as ridership on the northeast corridor . What is being done to assist state supported routes and our workers on these routes being furloughed differently than workers on other areas of amtrak operations . So, state supported routes in california, the three jpas are very important operations for amtrak and for the state. I know that. Congresswoman, were operating a level of Trained Service based on what the three jpas instruct us to operate. So they make the decision of how many trains we should operate during covid and post covid. So we respond to them. They make, i would say, the business decision on how many trains, again, to operate. And our state partners are certainly working with us. But also insisting that we keep our costs low. And in part that gets to what level of Employment Base will we have to support the services. It is something that we hear about from the three jpas regularly and its part of our ongoing discussion with them as we plan for 2021 levels of service, maam. All right. Well i would suggest that you communicate with all of yours, your labor organizations and have some transparency so they can see why you have to do what you do. And i support amtrak, no doubt they do a great job and i support the employees. But i would wish that the organization with you being new on board that you might consider connecting with them to allow them to see why youre doing what youre doing and not have to come up before us and explain to congress. I think the waiver of buy american, we want to keep things in america. We want to do more manufacturing in america. So i suppose that there might be some need for it, but look at how important that is to your organization. And mr. Chair, i yield back. The chair will now recognize mr. Smucker for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. I appreciate you holding this hearing. I did want to address comments to mr. Flynn as well. I have some questions as well. But first recognize that i know youve taken leadership of this organization during particularly challenging time, that the coronavirus has certainly taken a tremendous toll on families, businesses, and workers all across my district and across the country, and i know that mr. Smucker. Yes. If youll stop for a second there. You could turn your camera on . It doesnt appear to be i must have hit that when i muted myself. Sorry about that. That wasnt on. But so as i was saying, as individuals have shifted their work habits and travel, i know that there has been a tremendous toll on amtrak and so it has got to be a tough time to take on the leadership of an organization like that and i want to congratulate you and understand that difficult time. Rail is important to our transportation infrastructure and i support Rail Passenger service as well. It is important in my community, particularly amtrak, the keystone line runs right through the district that i represent, lancaster station is one of the busiest stations in pennsylvania, right behind 30th street station and so it is important. And youve talked a little bit about the virus impact on amtrak. But i specifically want to sort of understand what is happened on the keystone line and then have some specific questions. You said ridership was down 97 i believe overall. How does that what have you seen in the keystone line . So, 97 was the immediate impact, mr. Congressman, in march, april, and may. Our ridership has recovered about 20 . So were down 80 . And did amtrak similarly on the keystone line . The keystone line was the first of the state supported lines to shut down. Early in the pandemic, at the direction of septa, the keystone line was shut down for a period of time. And i think in part because of covid outbreak or incidents of covid within several of the septa operations itself. Were happy that the keystone line has been reinstated and were operating the keystone line for septa today as we speak. I dont off the top of my head know the specific level of ridership but that is something we could get back to you with. It would be similar, although the Commuter Services, several of the Commuter Services were state supported lines that operate more like a commuter service. They have had a bit higher level of ridership as people are returning to work, more people are taking leisure travel. I just dont have the number off the top of my head. Do you know how the revenue compares year to date to last year at this time . I dont have that off the top of my head. If you could get that information, it would be great. You mention it is a state supported line. How does amtraks Capital Investment in the keystone line compare to the investment from the commonwealth . Another area id have to get you back on. I dont recall that number off the top of my head. Be glad to get that from you later. Do you know what percentage of amtrak stations along keystone line are ada compliant . I do not. I do know that were making substantial investments in ada compliance and certainly the keystone line is part of that. We have a requirement sorry, im running out of time. Do you know what percentage of the upgrade projects were paid for by amtrak as compared to by the state, by the commonwealth . Most of it has been paid by pennsylvania, sir. In my understanding. Do all of the amtrak revenues outside of ticket sales including fees generated from other rail line utilizers and additional revenue get reinvested back into the keystone line . If keystone revenues into keystone lines . The keystone line is part of the entire northeast corridor and so there is a very comprehensive set of rules and legislation under 212 im going to stop you. Im sorry. Im at the end of my time here. You might be able to guess what im getting at. During the committees markup earlier this year i offered an amendment that would transfer the keystone line to the commonwealth of pennsylvania. Next week, when the house returns to session, i plan to offer that amendment as a bill. I just would like to ask you, dont you think that at this time that the amtrak is losing money on the keystone line, particularly with the challenges now. Dont you think that transferring the line to the commonwealth would put amtrak in better financial standing . I dont, sir. I think making a shortterm decision over the longterm level of operations, i dont think it would be a good decision. Well, i just would hope that, as i said, i know rail service is important and i think at this time with these challenges, i think it is important that we consider outside of the Box Innovations to Better Service the American People. But i thank you for your questions and i look forward to some of those answers coming forward. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The chair will now recognize mr. Cohen for five minutes. Do we have mr. Cohen . Okay. The chair will now recognize then mr. Garcia. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And Ranking Member crawford for convening this timely hearing. Like my colleagues im deeply concerned about the changes that were hearing about at amtrak, concerned but not surprised given the magnitude of the pandemic. I do not envy the tough decisions youre having to make at this time, but no one could have predicted the financial onslot the transportation sector would suffer when the pandemic first struck. Since march weve seen ridership drop and a financial disaster that covid has been for so many chicago where almost 1300 amtrak workers live and work every day, vast majority of Front Line Workers at amtrak, train operators, engineers, and the like, are union members. They make decent livable wages thanks to their goodpaying union jobs. For amtrak employees getting the pink slip, the decision is crippling. Frankly, my constituents are feeling the pain, not only have they kept our economy moving, but they have done so at the risk of their own health and that of their families as well. Still were letting them down and youre letting them go in our preliminary conversations with representatives from amtrak and chicago and i was informed that nearly 200 employees in the chicagoland area will be either furloughed or severed entirely. Mr. Flynn, would you confirm the number of furloughed versus fired employees we could expect from this proposed action at amtrak, both nationally and in chicago or illinois . So, thank you very much for your question, congressman garcia. Furlough would apply to any Union Represented employee so theyre not severed from the company. They have rights to return to service on a seniority basis and those seniority recall rights or recall rights are indefinite. The only time that a Union Employee would be severed would be if the Union Employee did not accept a return to service when so advised. And so they retain those rights. A management employee, however, does not have a right of recall. So Management Employees are severed when furloughed. I think were severing about a hundred people. Again, a very difficult decision to do, Management Employees, 100 total, Management Employees have the right to reapply or apply to be rehired one year or more after their severance. I dont have off the top of my head specific chicago numbers but would be happy to provide that. If you would. And then will these families receive any severance or extended benefits, what about health care . Well that is a very important question, thank you, sir. So we have gone beyond our contract requirements with our Union Represented employees and they will have full Health Care Coverage at no cost to the employee. Or his or her family through september 30th of 2021. For a management employee, we have a reduced cobra for them for a period of months after theyre severed from the company. And can you briefly changing gears, shed light on the type of Service Changes we can expect in chicago. I understand several interstate routes like trips to detroit and through wisconsin will be heavily impacted. Our Long Distance routes that come through chicago will go to a three day a week service. Those are are not already there. Will go to a three day a week service from a sevenday, although a couple are already at three day a week, and the statesupported routes will be dependent on what the states tell us they want us to operate. We dont control that. I wanted to ask you more in depth about the thousands of people in indiana, wisconsin and counties of chicago, they rely on state supported amtrak trains to get to work or family, but ill skip that because my times running out. In the thud act, if the thud act were enacted instead of languishing in the senate under Mitch Mcconnells desk, how would that additional funding be utilized beyond the 4. 9 billion you have requested . If we were to get the 10 billion of funding that thud has spoken to, about 4. 9 billion would be used, as we have already described in the incremental supplemental expense, and the other 5 billion would be used both across our company, some in the northeast corridor, but the majority or greater than half in our national network. And we would use it to invest in fleet, our bridge and tunnels work, as well as in workforce training. And working with our labor unions to develop internships and job training opportunities. Good. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you for your indulgence. Thank you, mr. Garcia. The chair will now recognize mr. Fitzpatrick for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for yielding. For holding the hearing today. Thanks to all the panel for being here with us today. My question is for president maratea. I was wondering if you could walk us through and plain to the committee what tcu has done to assist amtrak with reducing its overall costs of doing business. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for the question. First, mr. Chairman, i want to thank you for your ongoing support for the amtrak workforce. For leading a bipartisan letter along with congressman molten in support of emergency relief funding for amtrak, protections for our workers. Youve also shown time and again that you support and care about amtrak workers. Youve been standing with us at our rally, in freezing cold february in philadelphia. To answer your question, what is tcu members have been doing, most recently, our on board workers have received a 10 pay cut by putting them on the actual list, their guaranteed money has been reduced. And thats continuing. Many employees took voluntary leave without pay to help amtrak. Lost a weeks pay per month. And weve also said to amtrak, what can we do to Work Together to try to make other side agreements, which unfortunately, we have not had any movement on. To take back, to go back a little further, i negotiated the last round of contract bargaining. I was the lead spokesman for our coalition. Meeting with amtrak, they wanted major needs from us. One was relief under health care. Not short term relief. Long term relief on their health care. We buckled down, rolled up our sleeves and we attacked it. By making a whole new Health Care Plan for the first five years of an employees employment before they can go into the higher level plan. Which, according to our numbers, generated 4 million over those five years of savings. Rolling it out for the future, ten years, generated 17 million, and over 25 years, 72 million. Which amtrak needed for stability in their health care. We also increased our membership cost share. That during term would have generated 20 million in money back to amtrak for our employees. Plus, on wages, they needed relief early on and we gave them that relief by adding a six month zero in front of the contract and basically taking a 1. 25 for 18 months of the first two years of that contract. Industry standard, everybody was getting 2. 5. Again, we took 1. 25 and backloaded that deal to help amtrak both for the future, future employment of our members. Weve had a long history with bargaining with amtrak, sitting down and rolling up our sleeves and making things work. We have added parttime agreements in our call centers and our ticket windows. Anything we could do to keep our people moving, and this is just a small step in the right direction that we had to take time and time again to make things work. And thats why its a little disheartening to see our front line people, who, when you talk about heroes, these guys are the heroes. These brothers and sisters are your frontline people. Ticket clerks. Ushers. Cleaning the station, doing spot cleaning so everybody stays safe. And now, risking their lives and families, have to go out or they could lose their job and then further respond to the congressmans question, i want to add im sorry congressman. The managers, if they hold rights to the union, they come back. They dont hit the street. And most managers hold rights. They pay dues, they come back. So that has to be taken into consideration. The tcu has always stepped up and we have many times. I hope that answers your question, congressman. Thank you, and to chairman lipinski and all my colleagues on the committee, i think its important that we remember to recognize these frontline workers. We hear that term used a lot. These people should be included in definition. As you just heard, they have significant skin in the game and have made tremendous sacrifices and when we talk about amtrak, we got to start the conversation with the men and women on the front lines. Sir, thank you for your service. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The chair will now recognize ms. Norton for five minutes. Ms. Norton, are you there . Im sorry. Go ahead. Youre recognized for five minutes. Okay, im sorry. I must have been muted. I particularly appreciate this hearing. Amtrak is on the northeast corridor and washington Union Station is its second busiest station nationwide. Of course, i represent the district. This question first to mr. Flynn. I know that continuing while competing pressures you have. Youve got a decrease in ridership. A drop in revenue. Youve got new safety protocols and yet, i know Capital Improvements continuing. For example, the portal north bridge, among others. Id like you to answer how youre able to continue Capital Improvements in the middle of this economic and Health Crisis that amtrak faces. Thank you. The Capital Improvements that we continue to pursue are improvements that have been pursued for a long time, as you know. And we believe our essential improvements for the company and for our riders where does the revenue come from for these improvements . The revenue for the improvements comes from congress. Moneys that are allocated to us working jointly with the department of transportation and the federal Railway Administration and fta where appropriate. So portal north, for example, is, i believe, 100 have there been any cuts in the revenue you have gotten from congress for these improvements . No, there havent been any cuts. The Capital Funding is fairly specific. Its what its intended to do and these are investments in hundredyearold infrastructure. Not sure if you can hear me. I can hear you, yes, i can hear you. And i understand the importance of these Capital Improvements. Im simply trying to reconcile the funds youre not receiving, for example, from congress, in the heroes act, with funds you need so badly. And your ability to continue to fund Capital Improvements across the country, it looks like. But i take it those funds were already appropriated . Yes, maam, those funds were appropriated and certainly additional consideration for Capital Expenditures in c. A. R. E. S. As well. In c. A. R. E. S. , all right. Im intrigued upon learning of your partnership, i will call it, with rb, which is the maker of lysol. Ms. Griffin of the transport workers earlier testified about lack of coach cleaners. Im wondering about this new partnership to strengthen disinfectant protocols for trains and stations and lounges and im interested in it because among the first to trying this out first in washington Union Station and on our pacific line, but in washington Union Station, which is one of the busiest in the northeast corridor. So could you give us some rare detail on these enhanced protocols that you will be using on amtrak in this new partnership with the maker of lysol . Yes, maam. So, lysol, the product lysol, is one of very few products that the food and Drug Administration has determined to be effective against covid19 and effective against other coronaviruses. Of different types. And what were doing is were constantly researching, seeking to understand, what more can we do. To mitigate and or essentially eliminate the potential for our customers and our employees to contract covid while in a station or on a train. And so in working out this agreement with lysol, we are, they are not only providing us with what the fda has determined to be a very efficacious product, theyre also working to provide advice to us on how we can enhance cleaning protocols that we employ on the trains and in fact, before they would sign this agreement with us, they did a very comprehensive review of what we are doing because while were cobranding with lysol, theyre cobranding with us, and they werent going to cobrand with an entity that they didnt feel had the right level of protocols sxakz s in place. So thats, protesting the first in the stations as you pointed out now, those products could also be used on the train. Thats reassuring. Thank you very much. I see my time has expired. Thank you, ms. Norton. The chair will now recognize mr. Balderson for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Great to have mr. Flynn here today. Mr. Flynn, thank you for being here. I thank amtrak for their service through these trying times, but i appreciate you being here. Mr. Flynn, i would like to follow up on a point my congressman, harry, made, regarding appreciation. On november 8th, 2019, amtrak announced its lowest ever loss of 29. 8 million for fiscal year 2019. In that same statement, amtrak went on to pick up a profit for 2020, which would be a first in amtraks near 50year history. If depreciation was included in this financial reporting, what would amtraks net loss have been in 2019 and what would the projection have been for fiscal year 2020 . So if we were to add back the depreciation, it would be about saent 790 to say 750 to 800 million. So at an operating income basis, adjusted operating income basis, b i believe that fy 19 was a negative 29 million or near break even on that level. You would have to add back to 750 or so Million Dollars of depreciation. And there may be some other expenses in there, but that would get you to about an 800 million loss on a gap basis. And a similar level, sir, of depreciation going into fy 20. I dont know the exact number, but it would decrease somewhat, but not on an order of magnitude. Good to know. Thank you. Next question would be assuming a level Playing Field including workforce protections and safety standards, would you oppose opening Certain Network routes for a competitive bid if it meant driving down cost and improving service . Well, i have certainly not a question i have considered and i appreciate your asking that, congressman. But as a First Impression to me, no, i dont believe we would operate or open up our longdistanlongdist ance routes for competitive bids at this point in time. We have a hard enough time just getting on the network with our host railroads to operate the services we provide. More operators create more complexity among other things, and i would imagine it could be highly disruptive to us and i would imagine could be highly disruptive to the class1 railroads. And i think that would also, such a situation there, i think, would certainly jeopardize Employment Opportunities for our current employees. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i cant see the clock. How is my time . Youre at two minutes. Thank you, sir. Mr. Flynn, my last question then. I understand you work for a Class One Railroad and i know you are familiar with the importance of fright railroads to our economy. How do you plan to work with all classes of Freight Railroads to strengthen the relationship between railroads and amtrak to eliminate conflicts and improve ontime performance . Thank you, sir, i did have the opportunity to work for csx for several years a while ago. I believe i have a class 1 Freight Railroad perspective and i believe we can certainly coexist, but i think we can do more than coexist. I believe we can both prosper. Freight railroads are making an important contribution to our economy broadly and so does amtrak. So i think if we could have standards and metrics in place, clarify the ground rules there, obtain the right of private action, i believe we can sit down with the class 1 railroads and absolutely work out a situation that will work to an operating profile that allows for high quality on Time Operations for both our passenger operations and our host railroads freight operations. Mr. Flynn, thank you very much for taking the time to be here and please pass along our thanks to amtrak employees for their frontline workers and being out there and god bless them and stay safe and healthy. Mr. Chairman, i yield back my remaining time. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Lowenthal for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair, and to all and to the Ranking Member and thank you to all of the panelists on this very interesting issue on talking about amtrak and future of amtrak. Id like to really focus in on amtraks response to covid19 specifically. My first questions are to ms. Griffin. Ms. Griffin, in your written testimony, you provide a concerning account of your experience in july when you were in contact with a covid19 positive colleague. You took steps to notify your supervisors. To initiate protocols that would remove you from further service to avoid further spreading the virus. However, you were not immediately removed from service. And were only removed after further intervention from supervisors. Most concerning to me is that you were told by amtrak to return to service after only ten days and were never tested for covid before returning to work. While you did not display any symptoms, we know that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus just as much, in fact, the study that has just recently been published in last months journal of american medical associations internal medicine, found asymptomatic and presymptomatic individuals carried as much of the virus as those who were exhibiting symptoms. Since your experience in july, do you know if amtrak has instituted a different process to remove possibly infected individuals from work and to insure that they are covid free before returning to work . Thank you for your question and as far as i know, no. Its the same procedures as i went through. Actually, ive been quarantined twice through amtrak with possible exposure. And its been the same protocol. Thank you. Mr. Flynn, what went wrong in ms. Griffins case . Well, i paid very close attention to ms. Griffins testimony as she was describing the conditions and circumstances to the committee. And i am going to insure that we look into those details very closely. We require that our employees quarantine after we confirm exposures. Real exposures to another employee and if theyre on the road, we ask them to isolate on the return trip. And also, we require a 14day period of time. I cant comment again specifically on ms. Griffins circumstances. I believe she might have just said that the first time she quarantined, it was for 14 days. Ten days. Again, i want to look into the details of that. I dont know if ten days was an elapsed total of 14 days since the exposure. I dont know and it wouldnt be appropriate for me to presuppose any of that, but as i said to you and confirmed to ms. Griffin, who is on the panel here with me, ill certainly look into those details. But we do require our employees to quarantine. We do pay protect our employees when theyre on quarantine. So far, weve had, for example, 3,921 employees that we have pay protected not only because they were potentially exposed or exposed, but if they believed that they had some exposure or if they had some of the symptoms of covid. We had 1,845 employees test for covid. 482 tested positive of which only seven are current. And we are now providing testing on demand which is over and above cdc guidelines to any employee that requests it, sir. Thank you for describing the processes that amtrak has in place to insure that potentially infected employees are not on duty or in trains or in the stations. My next question is does amtrak have any processes in place to Contact Trace covidinfected passengers . What happens if a passenger tests positive a day or two after their train trip . Do employees who worked on that train, do they find out about that . So if you could describe that process, also. Yes, we do have Contract Tracing in place, our workers and where we can with our passengers. What i mean by where we can is we dont always know where a passenger sits on a train. We did actually have an early covid case passenger as early as march on a train from chicago to st. Louis. We were able to contact virtually everyone on the train virtually everyone on train. There werent a lot of riders on that train. Not just everyone in the car. But certainly all of our employees and so were also working with the Public Health department to continue to do so. Well, thank you, ms. Griffin and thank you, mr. Flynn, for that testimony. Im very concerned about the processes that are in place and whether examples of ms. Griffin where things did not work out as well as she would have liked that they have improved and with that i, mr. Chair, i yield back. Thank you, chair will now recognize mr. Carson for five minutes. Thank you, chair. Am i on . Okay. Yes. We can hear you but your camera is not on. We cant see you. Okay, there you go. I had to log on online. It is so, my question, mr. Flynn, regarding beach grove, ive been very concerned about the furloughs that your considering, im especially concerned about the possible impact on maintenance facilities. Can you tell me whether or not if you plan to cut positions at beach grove . I would also appreciate in writing any plans that you have to change the workforce levels at the beach grove facility. Thank you, congressman carson. Were not furloughing any employees at beach grove. In fact, a number of our beach grove employees did take the voluntary separation and hire and so were hiring some employees in beach grove to back fill the positions. Beach grove requires substantial Capital Investments over the next couple of years but as we develop future plans about beach grove or plans that would impact beach grove we would be happy to advise your office of what those plans would be. Thank you. That would be a big help. Thank you very much. Mr. Miller, i appreciate listening to your testimony about the damage being done to Passenger Rail service in the midwest by reducing Daily Service on Long Distance routes. Indianapolis was previously served and benefited from this. To you, you could elaborate on what happened to Midwestern Service when Daily Services are cut. Do you think congress should mandate Daily Services in. I apologize, congressman, was that question for me, sir . For you, mr. Miller and if anyone eps wants to jump in about a congressional mandated Daily Service, chime in. Well, yes, sir. Our position is that yes they should be at a minimum daily and the reason of that is for of the multiple effect this has in the communities. Weve heard a lot this morning, an assertion that amtrak is required by congress to make a profit. It is not. It is required to minimize subsidies. And when we have the conversation about profit, that ignores the benefits that the community has received. And we talked about that in the midwest, that is a perfect example of that. When we looked at the effect of the Long Distance routes, 12 of the 15 routes affected by the cuts, those routes together contribute about 4. 7, 4. 8 billion to the economy. That is the profit, going to the communities that they serve and whether youre looking at places like st. Louis or indianapolis or anywhere in thenywhere in th Services Provide an outside benefit in terms of tourism, in terms of visitor spending, in terms of taking vehicles off the road. All of those impacts are measurable, quantifiable, and amtrak itself used to talk about 7. 4 billion of value to the economy that was created, we think that number is actually a low ball. We think it is actually a little higher than that. When you cut the Daily Service down to three times a week, you dont just cut four days worth of ridership, the ridership declines more than that because of the diminished utility and because of the diminished connections. Chicago is an enormous connection point, as you know. And that is going to be a particularly difficult situation for the midwest because a lot of those connections, because theyre difficult to make, those trips simply wont take place. 39 million of revenue of connecting revenue flows through chicago alone. And a lot of the trips are going to originate in chicago and flow through the midwest and those trips will not take place because the network does not have the utility required to make those trips worthwhile. So those are people that will not be getting off in those smaller towns, will not be spending money in those towns, will not be eating in the restaurants and not supporting local economy. And that is a big blow. It is already a big blow and it is only going to get worse. Thank you. Thank you both. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Carson. Chair will now recognize mr. Lynch for five minutes. Hello, mr. Chairman, can you hear me . We can hear you and we can see you. All right. Well thats good. Two for two. I want to thank you, chairman lipinski for keeping your focus on this, this is a very important issue. And i appreciate the witnesses trying to help. Mr. Flynn, so going back to the c. A. R. E. S. Act, we pushed through a billion dollars hoping that would help recapitalize amtrak so that you could avoid furloughs. Then we put through 10 billion in addition to that on the transportation appropriations bill and under hr2, we, i thought, were very generous to amtrak by supporting 30 billion for amtrak over the next five years. And to be honest with you, i thought we were very generous and just so you know, during the debate of hr2, i had an amendment. The amendment would have prohibited any furloughs, layoffs or reductions in force during the term of this pandemic. And yet the feeling between amtrak and members of committee and staff was that with this generous funding of amtrak, that this would be unnecessary and that i should withdraw my amendment. And so in good faith, in good faith i did. I prohibited that amendment. And so not happy about that. And i want to tell you, there are consequences to your decision. I mean, in good faith, i supported all of that funding for amtrak. And as a matter of fact, while my district is at one end of the northeast corridor, that provides a profit for amtrak, im entirely comfortable, and i fully support amtrak using the profit that they would make in the northeast corridor to help our mid western and southern and western states. Some of those red states, those rural areas that would be without service. So i support that. I dont think that we should cut out those lines of service, those long haul lines that dont necessarily benefit my district. But i think benefit the country. I just hope you take very seriously the credibility that you will lose by engaging in these furloughs and the reputational damage that it comes to amtrak management because of this decision. You know, these 2,000 line workers are very important to us. They are the heart and soul of amtrak. And i appreciate that the management personnel are important as well. But, you know, were going through a rough patch right now. And i think this is, this decision, youre not keeping faith with our line workers for amtrak. Youre not keeping faith with the people who drive those trains and maintain those trains every single day. And i have some deep misgivings about my own decision to pull that amendment. So im asking you to rethink that. And were all in this together. I dont think that your decision to furlough these 2000 employees will save the day. Quite honestly because cutting them out is going to reserve service, having them out is going to continue to spiral that bottom line deficit. So youre going to lose the faith of members of Congress Like me who were behind you and supportive of you because of this decision. So if you have any other alternatives other than what youre suggesting right now with this furlough decision . Thank you, congressman lynch. These are really very difficult decisions and one that we all feel very personally. As you pointed out, if hr2 would become law it could be Game Changing for amtrak, on many levels, including the ability to retain everyone employed and the Long Distance service. Should the economic recovery as proposed by under thud legislation, that would be some multiple Game Changing. Im not sure what the right, what the right adjective is for that. But we dont have that funding certainty yet. And that is why in the 4. 9 billion suppose he elemental that we presented to the committee and had discussions with staff and with members, it is about retaining employees who with otherwise be furloughed or maybe furloughed and then recalled and a Long Distance service. As i have mentioned in the response to another member of the committee, we had quite a bit of input from a wider amount of stakeholders including the senate and in the administration that said you need to, in your request, look at those areas where given the very, very low levels of ridership youre experiencing, you need engage and you need to take some self help in reducing cost and those are the equities were simply trying to balance. And i heard everything you said, which is why in my remarks here today i was pointing out levels of funding, given a 34 level of ridership in 21 as compared to 19 that we would require. Well, you know, i think weve got to hang together. And i just do not see the support that i think we owe to, you know, our line workers. I just dont see it in this these 2,000 furloughs. So i would encourage you to revisit that decision. The other piece of the question i had was the vendor bidding on contracts that may result in jobs being exported overseas, lost in the United States and then exported overseas. Do you have anything to say about that . In terms of we did receive a waiver to purchase some specific tracklaying equipment from overseas and we did that after the fra and the committee satisfied themselves it was absolutelynet necessary and not vrabel availabl available. The it work has been brought to my attention, i was unaware by those, but chairman defazio and chairman graves or by chairman defazio specifically and we have adjusted that rfp and taken out the ability of the responder or the successful responder to outsource that i. T. Programming work. We had some other rfps and we also made those changes as well. Under the circumstances, you could see how youd be under severe criticism for doing that. But i appreciate that youve revisited that and im blad youre listening to chairman defazio and happy that at least the i. T. Portion of that has been retained. Mr. Chairman, im going to yield back and i want to thank the witnesses for their help with the committee at this hearing. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Lynch. Are there any members who have not had any chance to ask any questions . All right, hearing none, i want to thank the witnesses for testimony. I think mr. Lynchs comments there at the end were very good way to conclude. We need to be supportive of the worker that at amtrak, im sorry, that mrs. Griffin and others didnt have an opportunity to field questions but i think everyone understands that mr. Flynn is, you know, really in the drivers seat here for what is happening. But amtrak needs the support and the help from congress. Im very happy to hear, here at the end, i was not aware, i was sent that letter along with chairman defazio about the outsourcing of the i. T. Jobs. So im very glad to here that that has been that has been changed. That option has been changed. That is good news to hear from you, mr. Flynn, but well have to continue to talk about the need to make sure that amtrak workers are taken care of and also that amtrak passengers are receiving the service that they deserve and when the pandemic is over, that we can return to all of the service so which is very questionable if we have cuts to service in the meantime. But i wan to thank the witnesses for their testimony. I want consent that the testimony for todays hearing remain open to provide any answers you may have in questions that may be submitted in writing and the record be open for 15 days for any additional comments submitted by witnesses to be included in the record of todays hearing. Without objection, so ordered. 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