The discussion focused on how newsrooms are changing how they approach hiring and story coverage as well as advice for young journalists entering the profession. This runs for one hour, 10 minutes. Everybody welcome. We are so happy you are with this. I am julie, the executive director of the National Association of Journalism Institutes and we are very happy to be hosting this event on newsrooms after the summer protests. Anything has really changed. Thank you to the National Press club members for planning this program in partnership with us and the communicators committee. Its going to be a very interesting and informative conversation. First among our wonderful panelists and then we hope youll join in by sharing your questions using the q a queue. So im going to turn this over to our moderator in a moment, Michael Carter who is usa today managing editor of standards, ethics and inclusion. But first i want to say again welcome and thank you to our panel and amanda barrett, fda managing editor of the associated press. Rene sanchez, editor and Senior Vice President at the Minneapolis Church news and dorothy packer, Investigative Reporter for wbbm. In my hometown of chicago and president of the National Association of black journalists. Again thank you all for being , here. And michael, over to you. Michael thank you for having me. Thank you again to our panelists. Thank you to everyone. I hope you get a lot of out of this conversation. This is important. We have a great group of panelists that will dig right in. So, i want to kick us off with an overarching question here. Newsrooms have been announcing a lot of great changes over the last few months. New diversity leadership positions. New task forces. They are creating new projects. But after years of inequities in our american newsrooms, some have even characterized this as systemic racism in american newsrooms. Has anything really changed . Amanda, i would like to start with you. Amanda thank you, michael. Thank you everyone for having us here today for this very important conversation. I would say that things are starting to change. Was so muchre conversation inside our newsrooms. Particularly as we were covering the summer of protests. It started us off on a path of soulsearching. But we are nowhere near done. I think that we are started, and we are thinking and starting to make change. But my concern is how do we make the change permanent . How do we really try to not only reach different communities but also give people more power in newsrooms and here their voices and bring them into the decisionmaking about what we do . So that is where my mind is. Michael rene . Do you have any thoughts on that . Rene i agree with amanda. The only thing that i would add is that we are taking a first set of steps that we think can be meaningful. But there is a huge burden to the point of, how do we sustain it well and how a year out from now can we say that there has been change . I guess i would say that the only really evident change so far is that i think in our newsroom, given the magnitude of what happened here in minneapolis, we are daring to listen much harder. Even when we think we are listening, to listen harder. To journalists of color and some of the nuances of issues beyond kind of the obvious shortcomings. So that has been i think an important part of the process so far, and i hope it may push us into a significant change. Michael excellent. Do you have thoughts on this one, dorothy . Dorothy i think the protests fueled a racial reckoning in newsrooms across the country, just like we saw in other industries. I think that we definitely see it in the newsroom. What i see is black journalists coming together, who are coming together, joining together in demanding change with the new newsrooms. They are demanding equality. They are demanding that managers listen to them and because of that, i see that there are more hires. So we were talking about this the other day. We are seeing some movement. They aregers are hearing the voices of black journalists and other people of color in particular, and responding. If they are not arrogant, they are being proactive. I think there is some movement. The question, like amanda said, is how do we sustain it . Ishink one way to sustain it to say, dont stop screaming. Just keep pushing. , we have back and say one new manager, we are good. Tohave to keep up we have keep the heat up. That is one way. There a number of other ways we can talk about later of ways that i think we can do to address systemic racism but i will stop there for now. When you talk about sustainability and keeping it going, why should journalists of color in the industry now believe that anything will , especially forward if we go back to historical data. All of our organizations have challenges but i will just use as an example. Vowed to978, they achieve parity in newsrooms with that of the unit is states by 2000. It is 2020. Now they are saying they will 2025. Parity by the canto be kicking down the road. What will make this stick . What will make this sustainable . What will make the change be permanent. Ill start with you again, dorothy. Dorothy one of the things that will make the change and i dont know that i can say permanent i think one of the things that will make this fight more constant is that were frustrated now. I think because of the protests, because of what is happening, because of the unrest in this country, because of the racism, we are frustrated and we are perhaps more determined in that there are more of us who are in the newsroom and who are more aware. If you look at in 1978 and that was just about the time that i came in, i was the only woman in the newsroom. There were no others. Fast forward to today and were definitely not the only one in the newsroom but there are more of us and what im seeing is that literally, i have chapters reaching out to me every day saying that we are getting together and we are going and demanding to see more people of color in management positions. Were demanding to see more people of color in decisionmaking positions and i think thats why youre going to see a change and its because of the numbers, its because of the time and its because of the frustration. And young people in particular, they are not as educated as we they are not as patient as we were. Theyre not willing to sit back and say if i do the right things long enough, my time will come. Theyre speaking up and i like that. I like that theyre saying wait a minute, ive done all these things. I want my turn now. I want my opportunity now. So its a different time and i am prayerful that it will make a difference, that it will sustain. Rene, whats it look like for your shop . Rene lets be honest, i think there should be skepticism. If you look over recent years or even the decades, gains are very incomplete, they are fragile. I dont think theres a magic bullet and were not approaching it that way as we renew this work with i would say greater urgency than ever. The way we are thinking about it is that you know, they have to rethink and have a lot more intention around everything from the pipeline of young journalists to developing midcareer journalistic positions of leadership. And it just the full spectrum list you might say in the hope that in all those ways, there will be gains. You know, the one other thing i would say that is different compared to any point that ive seen so far is that here in our newsroom, we are working directly in and constantly with several leaders of journalists of color in our newsroom and whats been great about it is that it started very much as a shared partnership. For example after two months of listening and really trying to get more deeply at the issues before we put out an action plan, i let the leaders of that group line by line and call out what was maybe tone deaf to put forth emphasis on other things we really trying to do this together, not just as a Leadership Group responding to particular new questions or demands. Amanda theres a couple of things at play here. First i think for a key, this went from being a newsroom conversation to a company conversation. A lot more people started talking about their experiences and feeling like they got left out of a lot of opportunities or feeling like they werent heard and so i think there was a groundswell of sharing that really helped us when we started thinking about how can we change the way we operate and how can we think about the audience that we want to reach, bringing different perspectives and voices to the and actually telling some unusual stories. And we heard back from customers that thats what they want. Theres a business imperative here we should not ignore. For us, our customers tell us that we need to be given a total picture of the communities that we cover. We need to get a diversity of voices and opinions and different people are coverage. So having that kind of response helped us think about holistically how we can change our operation to do better. But there is still skepticism. Theres definitely skepticism and i think theres going to be. We have to show our work and we have to be really serious about making change and show commitment as leaders of our news organizations in order for people to see that change show that changes happening. Dorothy i think if we dont do that, youre not going to see the support of the community and edelman did a survey and found that people want to know that the brand they support is conscious, is socially conscious. They want to know that the manufacturers who make them have a diverse company. The Community Looks at the news industry the same way. And its important. Amandas point, it is about the bottom line. And i know that we may not be able to see these changes happen today or tomorrow, but i think its different this time. You have Companies Like the star tribune and the ap putting together an action plan. Where 50 years ago individual companies are not putting together an action plan area action plan. There was a mandate from the Turner Commission and a mandate from the asa need to do the from the asne to do the right thing and make some changes but now individually these companies are putting together a plan to make a difference. What we have to do is make sure that they carry out those. Dorothy, i want to stick with this topic for a few more minutes because you mention something that ive heard numerous times. You said when you first came in, you were the one. I believe that there are still numerous newsrooms out there where there are still a one and if you are the one, you dont have a collective to go to management and say i want this change or we need this change. We have journalists of color leaving the business. How do we model newsrooms of all sizes to keep journalists of color in the business, to train them to provide them mentorship and to help promote them or give them career plans that will help them achieve their goals. And i dont mean just from, reporter to seasoned reporter, but to editor, to executive editor, to general manager and dare i say into the boardroom. What do we need to do to get to that . Dorothy two things. One, i think its kind of different questions here. There are many newsrooms that there is still only one. You remember the case in kenosha, wisconsin, where the editor quit. He was the only black editor, the only black person in the newsroom. He quit over that. There are many cases where there are one. Today, the difference when i started, we are much more connected because of any hj, aaja, and altogether organizations. There is an opportunity even if you are the only one to network with others and others who will support you. My job as president is to be the backup to be the support, the voice when you need it. About whatuestion you do, i can tell you that there are a number of programs that Companies Already run apprenticeship programs, fellowship programs that help people get in the business. Get anrtunity to internship or apprenticeship, get that first job, and perhaps move up. Ae problem is that there is gap. They get in and to many times, tore is nothing to do continue that mentorship, continue that relationship, continue to give them opportunities. Years, theysix leave, because they dont have a role model. Nobody has given them the opportunity. The road up is too long that is going to be 10, 12, 15 years before you get there. [inaudible] to the top. Bring them in. You know, dare say they get to the boardroom. Hire them right at the boardroom. People of color have that and of experience. Theyve been in the industry long enough. They can come in as an executive editor, they can come in as general editor. So just start there. We shouldnt always have to start at the bottom. We should be able to start at the top as well. Rene, looks like you had something to say. Rene i think thats a great point of emphasis. What were thinking about, what were striving to do with more intensity, to do it better is frankly to increase the accountability and to increase accountability on this issue in every Single Department of the newsroom. Not to simply say this is a newsroom thing, its a features thing. Its a photo thing area its a metro news thing. It is a copy desk thing. What were trying to do is get a plan going and it is in motion now in which the new leadership position we have on these issues is to kind of lockin a quarterly meeting with the leaders of each department and be able to ask questions like where are you now as compared to where you were last quarter with the Development Plan of journalist x. Where are you now with recruiting on the job you know that is coming up this summer. Things like that and what were hoping is that if we can increase accountability in each department, in a structural way, that over the next year a lot more will bloom and then that Critical Mass will i think my hope anyway when presented journalists of color coming in at all different stages of their career. They see the commitments, they see themselves, they see peers like them and thats the challenge before us and its pretty stark. Amanda, did you have any thoughts on this particular question . Amanda it is something we all struggle with because lets face it, journalism was not always great at helping people create career paths from the getgo. Thats just a basic issue that we have. But we really have to focus in and think about how we can create assignments for people. Give them opportunities, create new leadership opportunities. For us, i know we can be very hierarchical and we have committees, but theres always people on the committees. Can we pull some other people in . Can we give them a chance to lead, give them a chance to try something new because we know that we need them to build those skills, we need them to be leaders in the newsroom in the not so distant future. So i think all of us, its incumbent upon us as news organizations to really help someone, help our black staffers, all of our staffers but particularly our minority staffers find a way forward, develop the skills they need and so they can be in those positions. Dorothys is so key about point recruiting at all levels. I am fed up with the idea that the only way we can bring in minority journalists is to bring them in on entrylevel reedit on entrylevel. There are plenty of people like me who been in business 30 years. They have been doing the work for a long time. Why are they not getting the call . Why are not they not being considered . Thats something we have to focus in on because typically, what happens is they hire their friend. We have to break through that and as rene said, you have to hold them accountable. We have to say no, youre not going to go hire your friend. We need to look at the panel of people that are being interviewed for jobs and be more demanding that people are out there recruiting all different kinds of people so that we can bring those voices into our company. Amanda recruiting efforts and i recruiting efforts and i just want to say this, amanda, its exactly what i wanted to say. Recruiting efforts is key. Or one of the keys for sure. We have to make sure that you are searching beyond your small circle and that means you out to organizations like them. We have 1400 members, we have databases of producers, databases that were developed now as freelancers. We have the talent but we are beginning to get calls. Now more than ever because i have pretty much been jumping on. My turn take me, take me. , ive been saying come to us, come to us, we have the talent because i want the industry to know that we are a resource and its the same thing for any agency, so i think these companies have to be very mindful and very, when they go to say were going to fill this position, dont just make a phone call. Go to the universities as well. Dont just call your friends because sometimes its a question and the Companies Say why is it that we keep hiring people who look like the managers we already have . Why do we keep hiring white people who look like white people . Thats the question i didnt mean to interrupt you there but thats the question i was about to ask. I have been asked in other newsrooms how do we trust the process if the same leadership is in place that peter got us to place that got us to this position or has maintained this position and amanda, to your point, they are hiring their friend. I also want to make sure there are systems in place and i want to know what you all have in place your shots, i like to know the systems in place so its more than a really room, anyone whos not familiar with the rooney rule, it requires you bring in a candidate of color, a minority person to interview for any head coaching job. But as ive seen it and ive seen this happen in newsrooms, the candidates are brought in to check off a box and the conversation is had, they walk in the front door, the conversation is had as they are walking and the next thing you know, they are at the back door and they are out. And we did our job. What are your shops doing to ensure that the managers have the right training, they have the right understanding, they have the right decision to understand the needs to diversify newsrooms . E i have literally invoked the rooney rule here to our leaders because on the one hand it sounds great but where are we x sounds great but where are we where are we x years later when you look at the landscape of professional football and headcoaching and it could easily be argued that hasnt been that effective because to your point, its kind of a box checking exercise. So we have invoked that directly as a clear sign of how this can go way off track or start as strong rhetoric and have no consequence so what were trying to do, to be honest, obviously we are just kind of renewing our intensity around getting much better but were already discov