This Committee Hearing is 2 15. The hearing will come to order. Todays hearing will examine the need for fiscal or Debt Commission and hear from a panel of experts including current and former colleagues that have been through these battles and lived to talk about them. In fact, its a little extra special to have my mentor and friend steve womack who i am serving as chairman in the shadow of this beautiful portrait behind us and honor to have you back here in your chamber. Senator rob portman, ambassador portman is from ohio and delighted that youre hear. And he was a member of the bicameral Super Committee established as part of the budget control act of 2011 and served as director of o. M. B. During the Bush Administration which is where i got to know him. And he has given a lot of these issues over the years. Ambassador, thank you for your time and welcome you here. And alumni of the peoples house. Our friend from north dakota has worked on issues from 2001 to 2003, 2007 and 2013 and created legislation for the simpson bowls commission. And worked to advance recommendations in the senate. Chairman, we are delighted you are here with us today. Chairman womack, my dear friend from car san saw, because of him i served on the joint select committee on budget and process reform. He is a cardinal on the appropriations committee. And has served as Ranking Member and chairman of the Budget Committee from 2018 to 2021 and last but not lees our friend and fearless leader once upon a time, chairman yarmouth from the commonwealth of kentucky and spent his time working on these very issues we will be discussing today but served as Ranking Member and chairman on this committee from 20172023 and joint select committee and thank you for your service, mr. Yarmouth. And i am going to yield myself such time as i may consume and i will try to consume just a brief period of time because we are going to be pressed, i think, to leave here by noon for a vote on the floor. Im going to speak offthecuff. We have had a lot of conversations on our side, jimmy, over the last few weeks as it relates to the leadership of our conference i am proud to say we are wrestling with things of the greatest import which have to do with our Fiscal Health and deterioration thereof in this country and the important and difficult things we have to do to right this ship to ensure that our children are in good financial status and will not have to dig out of a hole. Its not right, its immoral and i dont think anyone on this committee thinks its acceptable. We laid out the reverse the occurs curse budget resolution. Its our job. One of the problems with this place we dont do our job and dont do it very well and dont take it seriously or the courage that forces us to do this job and we dont. We avoid these difficult conversations. Its getting more difficult. And both sides do it. Dont pay for things. We dont authorize before we fund things and its just a big ball of dysfunction and its no wonder that we are at a place where we are at a 2 trillion debt clip that will double in 10 years and trillion dollar that will triple in 10 years. No wonder with the dysfunction and mess of this process. Heres one thing that i believe, cant speak for all my colleagues, but we have to address mandatory spending and while we are object ceasing over one half of onethird of discretionary budget and i dont want to dismiss and theres waste and im not sure we ought to get after and be stewards of the taxpayers up here. Its not to diminish the discretionary but its the mandatory spending and entitlement programs that are really driving the debt. If we dont address them, we will truly bankrupt this country. Now heres the deal. If you look at the unfunded liabilities over the next 30 years at 120 trillion, 99 of the cost the unfunded liability are two programs, Social Security and medicare. And Social Security and medicare are critically important to our seniors and in this budget window, they will be insolvent and we have to address the solvency and have to address the sustainability not only for Seniors Today but for the future. So it is my strong belief that the Republican Party unilaterally will not be able to solve those issues nor will the Democrat Party in this chamber or in either chamber solve the issues of Social Security and medicare. They have been too weaponnized over the years. We need a Debt Commission of some sort but we have to have a commission, a framework, a model that works. The reason we have you here is to share with us your experience and wisdom so we can apply the necessary contours to whatever Debt Commission we can pass so that in the ultimate analysis and outcome, we have a solution that we can hold hands together in a bipartisan way and move not only move that issue forward and move the country forward with peace of mind and confidence that our country is on a better path. Thats the basic question. Gentlemen, how do we do this learning from the different commissions, ones we served on, steve, 2011 Super Committee, simpsonbowles, how does it work not only for this institution and more important to the American People. On a personal level, im excited to welcome you back, chairman i cant remember pentagon mouth. He served as chairman of this and also just a wonderful friend and someone who is a role model for me and thank you my friend, i would not be here without you. Its great to have you back. And to steve, one of my really good friends on the other side of the aisle, also great to have you in this position as well. Your approach i hope i dont get you in trouble. The way you approach, you are one of the most well respected members in the house and that is on both sides and at a time like this, we need it more ever. Thank you for being who you are and doing what you do. Two former senators, i have never worked with you, you have great reputations. Really interested to hear from all four of you today in terms of what you thought worked well on the respective commissions on which you served and also ultimately what didnt work about them. I appreciate and i know my chairman isnt here in the belief that commission is the answer. Im attempting to keep an open mind about it, im more than a little bit skeptical that a commission could work just given the past history of the last dozen years. I also think that whether if its a commission or straightup vote in congress, what we are really avoiding is the ultimate decision. Thats the ball game. And not the process by which we get to resolve that ultimate question. We look whether you take the date that c. B. O. Uses or the date that the social trust trustees, either 2033 or 2034 we cross the rube con and fall below being able to pay 75 of benefits and before that date we reach it on at least one of the Medicare Trust funds as well. So we have some time but not a lot of time. Ultimately, that question is going to be do we raise revenues for Social Security and medicare or cut benefits . I come down very clearly on the side of raising revenue. I dont make a secret about that and i practice what i preach. Im the author in the house with Sheldon White house that would raise enough revenue for Social Security and extend the life of the trust fund through the year 2100. I want to share remarkable poll data that came back this is from navigator. June of 2023, this poll asked the American People which approach do you prefer, raising taxes on rich and large corporations including closing tax loopholes and using that money to pay our bills or cutting Social Security and medicare and using that money to pay bills. The results were 82 to 7 , 82 opting to raise tax on rich and large corporations rather than cutting Social Security and medicare. Talk about a commission or not a commission, ultimately we know there is a choice that has to be made. And at the end of the day, elected officials will be voting on what that plan looks like. On the positive about a commission, the 2018 commission on which you served, mr. Chair and which you served, chairman yarmouth, we have launched a bipartisan look at budget bipartisan look at budget some of these passed out of the Senate Committee and didnt im interested in following up on the work you just did because i think there are some things there that we could turn into law and make permanently part of the process. Im especially interested in hearing about 2018, it wasnt so much a Debt Commission per se but more about budget process. I think we have a real opportunity in this congress. We talked about this before, to make that law and have support from at least three voters from the prospective chairs. With that welcome and welcome back and i yield to the chair. And i yield to thea quick thank you Ranking Member i agree also we have to have the political courage to ask that mr. Chairman we have the responsibility to act. That responsibility is ours. I would hope they try to depoliticize that conversation because we have to have it. In the interesf time if any other member organizations written statement for the record i will hold the record open till the end of the day to accommodate those have not been able to prepare their statements. Id also like to welcome our distinguished panel. And at this time i would like to yield five minutes to send portman. Quick thank you chair and Ranking Member thank you for your comments chairman, he laid out the challenge very well offthecuff i appreciate your knowledge when it comes to this also appreciate you inviting lesson is in a hearing room he was chairing it on a Budget Committee i was from this side of the table he was tough im glad to have them on this side of the table today. As you know i spent a lot of my career work on the budget issues. And also a member of this Committee Finance Committee and yes member the socalled Super Committee in these roles ive havehad an opportunity to see something thats a current budget process. Which we talked about. And the inability for congress to address the impending fiscal crisis. Between my source of house and house andsenate i did serve as t and budget i got to the same thing on did menstruation side. The inability to address the fiscal crisis from the executive branch perspective. Why these are tough issues a lot of political landmines. My experience ive made the conclusions time to try Something Different try something it gives congress the American People to understand its going on and have trust in that but also provide balance bipartisan way forward. Thats why believe a commission with memberships from congress and experts is necessary and timely right now. I want to commend the members of this committee piloted all of your backgrounds everyone it seems has offered legislation we crated solutions to the crisis Ranking Member talked about some. A number of bipartisan and this legislation. Include the Fiscal Commission on the budget resolution which expert position cochair of the bipartisan format. The Fiscal Commission act and te most recent continued resolution did not pass but got a vote. The fcas cosponsored by representatives and i apologize if ive missed others on the committee who been similarly engaged. This morning will hear from your former chair will have his own Commission Proposal. Want to thank members of this committee for taking the lead on that. You are well aware of the economic challenges a fiscal thl challenges that we face will not going to detail 33 truly begins to add up to a huge issue. In a tremendous at borden on the future generations it diminishes our standing in the world. Ive traveled and talk to people negatively impacts our economy. No coincidence we have had this debt and deficit grow and grow be followed by high inflation. There is no question that affects longterm rates and our constituents are suffering for that right now. And provide political coverage. What is our goal . Making tough choices including conducting top to bottom of the federal Government Spending asking hard questions about the federal role rooting out parochial spending that is not help the national interest. Fighting revenue in a way that minimizes Economic Growth and opportunity impacts. Reform of the critically important but currently unsustainable entitlement programs which was talked about in a charm and you had it just right. We have got to save these programs if we dont as the rank member said Social Security benefits will be cut substantially in 2023 or 2024 24 general fill benefits bankrupt the country we know that in terms of budget reform it would be great if the commission took a crack at that. And if you would agree thats needed. The first step of any commission is a tell the American People the truth about what is going on. They know that something is not right for they know the current trajectory is unsustainable. Theyre looking for an honest assessment and it kind of honest dialogue about the way forward. One that is right down the middle. That is maybe the most important part of the commission. Theres a lot of valid structures for a commission. Some of you again have your own proposals not saying one is better than the other. Having members of congress and some external folks involved who are real experts is important. I think to brute the commission would report the lame duck session of congress after the 2024 elections that is assuming it keeps going soon. The question was, what has worked and what hasnt worked . I think the law establishing the commission will fasttrack consideration culminated with a vote without amendment for a solution by qualified majority. That is the important thing of doing a Statutory Commission as opposed to others that have been tried. This base realignment and closure process for them in five backgrounds you know each round created an average of 12 billion in savings. That was tough going. But it did work in that sense but another model would be 81 Greenspan Commission was a Bipartisan Group of experts and members of congress. They say the government one is 65 billion extended to life in Social Security by 30 years. That is not bad. This had been extended for longer than that 30 years is not bad. We mention their competence of package reforms as you know is not pass in the congress. Its estimated by 2015 congress had enacted around 60 of reductions in spending those reforms that were proposed it did make a difference. We can talk more about that. We look from the failures to what did it worked it was established by executive order without congressional approval there was no enforcement mechanism to ensure a vote would occur but also the Commission Said he had to get 15 18 members to agree pray that was a majority. That is just too high. It turned out to be a standard that was too hard to meet. So look, when americans take a look at us today here in congress in washington they often despair what they see his deep divisions i wish more could tune into events like this today. Were i think you are seeing mattoon republicans and democrats the ability to look for the future together to collaborate in search of a solution for thats best for the country thank you for the Committee Members who were your willingness to take on the fiscal challenge and look at new approaches for bipartisan Fiscal Commission thank you. Thank you. Chairman conrad five minutes you could serve precooked thank you, mr. Chairman. Ranking member boyle, members of the committee at first i want to recognize the important work you all have done. Congressman you have advanced a serious proposal it takes guts to do that. Interment you have certainly led the charge on having a commission so we can wrestle with these issues with a mechanism that will allow bipartisan cooperation. So i want to recognize that. I also want to take a minute to recognize chairman yarmouth is someone who i have an enormously high regard for. It is an Outstanding Committee chairman my former intern has succeeded him and his congressional seat morgan. I am delighted to be with him today. And it chairman was known both sides of the isle of some of the great we admire that. I got them both sides that people recognize are the Budget Committee chairman serious member. And on a personal note if i could say your father is one of my alltime favorites. Budget Committee Chairman i work at them closely when he was the president s chief of staff. Really, what are my favorite members. Ive given a formal statement that understand it will be part of the record. I thought i would summarize going forward. First of all i believe we have reached a defining moment. Our Fiscal Affairs are completely off track efforts one thing we are bipartisan agreement on. We are off in the weeds and weve got to get back on track. Its already too high level. Our debt is now over 33 trillion as senator portman indicated. I should also in his head