As far as the use of transponders, the, these devices of course come in all sizes. When you get to the small uas, were not sure there will be a technology that will allow that kind of equipment. If youre flying in airspace requires a transponder, the uas would have to require a transponders. Same for the new uas rules. When youre looking to smaller vehicles looking for systems that talk to each other and people around them to achieve that sense of a void. If im out there in my singleengine 1959 come manche not with the comanche, i will have the correct transponders on it even a small uas hitting a propeller will take me out. Right. Hitting a small bird will take me out. Are you saying that then were not looking to require it is just, explain what you mean by is it a transponder . It is ininterrogating my aircraft . What is it doing . Here is what i want. I as a pilot i want to know if there is uas flying in my vicinity, so i see it shows up and two, if i get hit by one of these aircraft, i want a to know who is flying it, serial number and faa to know that you flew into general aviation or commercial airspace. Is there any attempt to go after those safety concerns . Right now were looking at rule separation and procedure separation. So under the small uas rule the proposal would be below 500 feet. So you will always be above 500 feet unless youre around the airport. The rule would require the uas to be five miles away from an airport. As long as theyre following rules and youre following rules you have separation. You also have vision all line of site vfr basic operations. That is all the rules contemplates. The other issues youre raising are some issues we talking about, need additional research, need standardization and separate set of rules around those expanded operations. Thank you. With 30 seconds left that i have, want to put this out there, put in a question for the record. Were going to talk about external load operations. I used to fly sling loads in helicopters. There are significant restrictions. I would want to know what amazon and mr. Wynne, what your positions are what is jettison ing procedures for those loads . All those issues a helicopter with sling load operations would have to follow, thank you. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Hice. Thank you mr. Claim. Point of clarification for me i think the answer is yes. Does the faa or the administration actually have a plan for directing the traffic concerns . Or is this something being developed and still in process . Is there an actual plan . There are two things i can put in that bucket. There is a comprehensive plan that was developed in 2013. There is fiveyear road map that gets updated periodically. Provides a sort of a master planning document. So there is a plan . Yes. I thought that was going to be the answer, it was a little confusing. Let me go mr. Could have lossky to you. Cough lossky ski. Which know about the gyrocopter went down here in d. C. The technology being developed. Would it have detected that gyrocopter . So the regarding this uas Traffic Management system is to enable the user of the system to be able to track and manage and plan flight routes within a very confined airspace. Others working operating within that airspace could be also detected. If they choose not to follow flight plan they would not be managed by the utm. Opportunity for the system to identify there is an operator who is not filing plans and not flying within the system can be alerted to the authorities or through the system, such that actions could be taken in order to address that. That is no different than ba we already have. It was detected with the technology we currently have. They thought it was anomaly this kind of thing. Youre saying with your technology it would be detected but still nothing necessarily would have prevented what happened . With the technology we were putting in place, that is correct. What our technology does is allow for the safe use of aircraft that are participating in the system to manage their trajectories, to be aware of other aircraft, general aviation aircraft, traffic helicopters and like flying there. To be safely avoided and missions and business objectives can be met. Does your technology differentiate between drones and say movement of birds or weather patterns or what have you . There are Radar Systems that are being developed as part of this that would be able to detect other flying things of particular size. At this point im not sure exactly how small that detection goes but it would allow for identification certainly of small drones. All right. Mr. Whitaker, back to you again. Just, if i may ask a different ones this question but at the end of the day who should control, own, manage the Traffic Management of uas . Does this come down to nasa . Does it come down to the government . Does it come down to private enterprise or nonprofits . Where does this belong . Well, we would envision as nasa develops this utm we would go through a normal handover process and it would become part of our airspace we would manage. All right. So you say faa . Yes. If i may, sir. That is exactly correct. We have a very formal process. We have he will haved with the faa. We refer to them as Research Transition teams. We work closely with nasa researchers and faa researchers. At earliest stages of our development of concepts and technology to be able to hand to them at determined times that we works by plan for that technology, and Technology Readiness levels such that they have the opportunity to fit it into overall planning. It is very rigorous activity. We have Great Success with another nextgen deliverables last dozen years. Nasa is developing technology and faa is using it and ultimately the buck would stop there . Yes. Mr. Geiger, let me go back to you quickly, i think issues are brought up great concern constitutionally and to many others. And i have just got 20 seconds but, preemptively, what actions do you believe Congress Needs to take in order to assure the first and forth amendment are not violated to u. S. Citizens . For government uas we recommend legislation that establishes a due process standard for Law Enforcement use. And we think that generally speaking, with some exceptions that that standard should be a warrant. When the uas is used to surveil individuals in personally identifiable way or private property. When it comes to commercial uas we think that the First Amendment is going to constrain the scope of any sort of privacy regulation. You could start with common law privacy torts which have a highly offensive to reasonable person or reasonable expectation of privacy standard but beyond that, it should be an industry code of conduct which will, because it is voluntary avoid the First Amendment issues. And i think that the goal ought to be to provide a reasonable privacy assurance to the public to that applications that have low impact on Civil Liberties such as commerce or Scientific Research can grow. And the industry itself will take off so to speak. Thank you, sir. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you. Miss lawrence. Thank you. Do we have, mr. Whitaker, do we have a proposed timeline for the officially accepting these rules or the process to go through to modify them, make any corrections . Do we a timeline . There is statutory 16month time frame from the close of comments. Okay. Which was in april. We plan to move more quickly than that weve got 4500 comments that were ajudicating now. And our internal working target is to have the faa portion of this finished by the end of the year coordination with the administration and be out early next year. So, many of you are aware that there is an app, i can call siri and say what is flying above me . It will tell me what flights are above me in the sky and where theyre going, what airline it is. Do you anticipate any such app . Because my, my concern right now is, as a citizen, in this with drones flying above me, how do i identify what they are and why theyre there and who they belong to . And that piece, it was interesting to me, when this application was introduced to me. And im wondering if something similar to that will be required of, of this type of flying vehicle . Well in todays world if there is a drone flying above you it is probably an amateur operator and there is no system to track who that is and where theyre going. It is an unregulated, by statute, an unregulated sector of the market. As you move forward with more fully intigrated operations in the controlled airspace you would expect have some ability to know who is out there. Well, you said you would expect. I want, i want us to move towards the point of, if there is a drone flying in my personal property space, that i as a citizen have the right to know who owns it, whats their purpose, and there will be a way for me to if i have any issues to have a way as a citizen to process that concern. And, that to me is a very high concern of mine. And people that talk to. So getting back to the public, what will be the process of educating the public. I would like to ask mr. Geiger. Geiger. What is the proposed process to that so that when we i anticipate an increase in the number of drones that well see, where is the education process when we adopt the rules and we get them accepted . Where is the education of the public . I think you will see education of the from both government and private entities. Certainly there has been a lot of Media Attention about it. The question is how will the public know when there is a drone in their or what are my rights . Well, your rights are evolving and i as i said in my testimony, i think that your rights ought to be strengthened by congress. Yes. When it comes to being able to tell whether or not what identifying a drone in your vicinity and where it is going and so forth we think that the industry and government ought to work on technology that will enable that sort of transparency for citizens. There are transponders would be one option but i understand there are technical limitations due to their weight. I understand also that nasa is working with verizon delivered cell towers. That may hold some promise. That would depend on the network. In addition we think there are other technical measures individuals could use to signal their privacy preferences. One is geofencing. For example nofly zones. Org is sort of a nation effort in that regard where you candle lynn eight property we would prefer if you did not fly here. So that, i think there is a variety of technologies that could get you there. I think that theyre not quite yet ready for prime time. But what i think is important that industry and government continue to work on them. The other question i have in the last few minutes to mr. Whitaker. In the rules it talked about reporting an accident or damage in certain amount of time. Will it be required if youre licensed as a drone operator that you have insurance . Pause if you if your drone disables and it crashes on my property or there is a package being delivered and it destroys my prized rose garden or something, what, what would be the requirements for insurance . Typically we do not regulate insurance requirements in aviation. We leave it up to individual operators for insurance. I want to just say for the record if were going to allow you dont require airlines to have insurance . Airlines have insurance for their own reasons. Most general aviation pilots have insurance for their own reasons. Were prohibited from regulating model aircraft operations. We would not be allowed by statute to have that provision but as a rule we dont get into that area of requirement. So if there was an accident it was reported in 10 days what happens . What happens with respect to . Faa would just have a record of it . It would not be any, any requirement for Drone Operators to be insured . There typically will be a reporting requirement for accidents. We investigate the cause of accidents. But dont get involved in a screwed a jude dating liability. My time is up but that is for the record a concern of mine. Well recognize long suffering waiting Senior Member and also former chairman of the aviation subcommittee. The gentleman from tennessee mr. Duncan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I dont have any questions but i want to express concerns. To do that i want to read a couple articles that came out last few days. I have read several articles about drones over last year, yearandahalf but barry wine merger, who is a lawyer who specializes in this area wrote a few days ago for, example will a drone scheduled to deliver your overnight package be allowed to collect information about you during dropoff, if so what kind of data . With Drone Technology advancing a the a fast furious pace there are uavs with the ability to record video and audio use facial Recognition Technology and collect electronic data, including signals from cell phones, Garage Door Openers and radio frequency identification data rfi did the, a Technology Used in Consumer Credit cards. He mentions a case in, some cases in which they are now using drones in divorce cases. And then jeremy scott, who is the head of an Organization Called the the electronic privacy information center, wrote a few days ago, the faa also failed to consider Data Collection implications in age of commercial drones and Big Data Companies flying commercial drones will likely look to surreptitiously collect data as fly around performing other tasks such as delivering packages. We saw similar experience when google cars were taking images for google maps. One company tested using drones to pinpoint cell phone and wifi signals to identify customers for locationbased advertising. He goes on to say, there exist as lot of potential for the commercial use of drones but there needs to be rules in place to protect against broad surveillance and data checkion. Thats why more than 100 experts and Civil Liberties organizations petitioned the faa to develop privacy rules for drones. Faa denied the paste and they have subsequently filed suit against the agency to force it to consider privacy. Currently voluntary best practices are being developed but best practices will not establish meaningful privacy safeguards. There is a lot of concern out there, most people feel that we really dont have much anymore any way due to the internet and all the modern technology and not just drones but to show you how much concern there is i understand that 10 states have now passed laws and my own home state of tennessee which is a very proLaw Enforcement state very proLaw Enforcement, Legislature Passed a law banning Law Enforcement agencies from using drones to collect evidence, to do surveillance except in extremely limited circumstances. And so what im hopeful is, is that to maybe the faa and some of your organizations will take a look at all of these state laws because the states seem to be sort of taking the lead in this so far. See if you cant take out some good things out of those state laws. And i think that mr. Misener Even Companies that want to use this technology extensively, because there is so much concern about privacy that you would be, your company would be welladvised to try to come up with every possible way that you can to protect what limited, what little privacy or what very limited privacy people still have. And, thats all i have got to say, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you for making those points. Did you want to respond to any of that, mr. Misener . Or mr. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Duncan i agree a company like ours has to take privacy extremely responsibly. Weve done it for 20 years now. Well certainly extend those kinds of privacy protections with Amazon Prime Air which is of course a delivery service, not a surveillance operation. Mr. Geiger . If people dont think they have much privacy now they should wait for new class of technologies that will enable very intrusive physical surveillance. That is just coming. I, theni examples that you read are indeed troubling. Im glad that you mentioned in those passages there are other types of surveillance enabled by drones besides just video observation. They could be outfitted array of sensors including cell phone tower emulatetores. Federal government used these on tens of thousand of individuals in the past year. In terms of how to provide individuals with that kind of privacy, you know, privacy towards get you some but again limited because it is limited to a reasonable, what is highly offensive to reasonable person standard. And it is unclear the degree which congress can directly regulate those kinds of uses without violating the First Amendment right to collect data in public places. However, we think that the industry should take the lead in strong enforceable code of conduct. And unfortunately the existing codes of conduct are not sufficient for that purpose. You mentioned your state laws. States are indeed taking the lead on privacy laws but the, part of that is because of federal inertia in response to the concerns of their citizens. But the patchwork of state privacy laws is also going to be difficult for the industry to navigate particularly for a Technology Like uas which could fly between the borders of individual states. So i think that, providing some sort of regulatory certainty with regard to privacy will benefit both individuals as well as commerce. Well, thank you. Thank you, mr. Conley. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing. Raises some pretty fundamental questions about the future of and values and parts of our philosophy we thought were settled. I think mr. Geiger, youre quite right to raise the flag and what does privacy mean as we move toward the future . Even a commercial drone Whose Mission is purely delivery of a good could be equipped with surveillance equipment and, actually penetrate the walls of a house and look into whats going on. Technology isnt far away from being able