Or the times we would forget. To use bill back its baskets we used to have a saying that the file cabinet were his ideas in the fourth tour was newts good ideas. [laughter] he was the idea guy. And to be a part of the organization that is now a permanent part of the Republican Party that is not up permanent fixture. But you were up part of that. Was gingrich j. And extension of that . Absolutely. The contract with america was portrayed into the reagan principles. But Ronald Reagan inverses bill clinton to feel confident in the context but the results prove that. That is one way but i think how he got into politics with the people that were in power. It was not a conventionally conservative race. Key called itself a conservative but he wrote in 1970 for one of the first articles advocating governor reagan as president general ford in the primaries. Everybody had a chance with the eyelashes and a the whisker to defeat in kansas city in 76 so thinking of politics and revolutionary politics but in 1974 for the first time republicans were wiped out across the country with the governorship and down the voting booth. And came within 6,000 votes of though longterm incumbent against the of southern democrat good old boy in georgia and it was quite remarkable because more ne recognition and he went to school in new orleans but he had his roots in politics. The district living in atlanta . Yes. He had a balance. With that urban white caller business interests. They were a oneparty state never had a republican governor or senator at that time. In the good old boy. But then found in washington. Agent is with deep roots and they were there as long as he wanted to be there. There is a new nomination problem . But it was the token opposition. Tel plus how did he come to win this seat. Guest it happened twice before with a good established name recognition but in 1974 he this is in watergate by 6,000 votes but then two years later carter and popular former governor of georgia is the nominee and goes across the finish line. And it was an enormous victory. Of course, they were in that uphill fight as well so this has to be maddening first watergate then the nomination it stops them. That would drive anybody bonkers. And that it would be problematic. So then he finally resigns and the democrats dominate you had a good campaign. But it was not the overwhelming feeling. As the republicans picked up three seats in the house or of the senate and about 20 in the house. But flint retires because he had to close calls. But then the republicans did then Newt Gingrich was the first serious challenger they ever had. Been talking about the strategy to have the endorsements. With parts of labor and jack flynn was democratic leadership. There was a local congressman and at the time with a prominent leader in the black community. With the adjoining districts . Sitting down at the same table but meanwhile with the happy support of the land ted daily world and meeting with them all the time and campaigning in the churches with widespread support in the black community. Nobody thought a republican could possibly do that very much welcomed into the black community. He also had some labor endorsements . That was exactly the way that they specified it. So that coalition changed . But it was interesting with the Reagan Coalition in with that endorsement but that was what reagan had in 1988 and 84 as a precursor. He did not get the amount of support that gingrich got but not for lack of trying the he was endorsed and other africanamerican leaders. So he comes to washington in those groups that supported him if you talking in the book what he did to try to keep these groups in line . Or mac. That was a an interesting coalition because there is no conservative organization to use because of it even with the Republican Party to muster a money order resources basically just a letterhead organization. You cannot depend on the local party. So those environmentalist was with environmental studies so the legislation of hearings and meetings to keep the door open. Compared to his predecessor. Yes. He supported. One of the first ones to call for the Martin Luther king, jr. Holiday and the Reagan Administration was slow to go along with that idea. In seoul were republicans. But that was part of his base. That was more jack kemp. Also he introduced a bill for a medical marijuana. [laughter] yes. Way before his time. People looking today with the image he has today is that the Newt Gingrich that he became . I think he reached a point no doubt as a rockefeller republican and did 1968 but they see the liberals are not working. But it doesnt work practically in the governmental since with conservatism in the free market. So always antiestablishment. To stand up against the south african apartheid government he voted for the 85 Civil Rights Act and got a lot of grief for that and it was a pretty white district that happily taking his name off the Jimmy Swaggart mass ted but this masthead but this is the Newt Gingrich they would recognize. This is the image of today. Of course he would say yes side did those things of course, i would take my name off or of course, i would oppose apartheid or is in nicaragua or to support the government but there is a lot of history to see what politics was like talking how donald trott met with the russians that been a number of democrats like Daniel Ortega in nicaragua to undermine reagans foreign policy. Theyre all in complete violation of the act. So gingrich comes to the house he was on the back bench it was called redneck row with the seven republicans and democrats. Was the spotted as a vicious leader . People saw that potential for a leadership. Much more get along and belonged to a the revolutionaries more than even after watergate. It is much more worse. That is not the of republicans fall. And then it is a lot of other factors. That could be 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s with conservative democrats. So they could compromise more easily. As they were all conservative firm mostly conservative. But the Political Parties operated and when they were at the National Convention they nominated a liberal to put that together. To produce unified convention. To lodge a the moderate. And then if you talk about imagery, of both parties operate. When they were the nominee of the Republican Party to say he should pick Nelson Rockefeller to unify the party to win the election against lbj. But to be very conservative and from buffalo york. So now with is all conservative to drive liberal republicans out of the party that is like john lindsay leaving the party. Also the process sarah john conley a conservative democrat serve that begins to process of the Voting Rights act by introducing new voters. But you saw that in virginia. So as a democrat . And then to start the process continuing up through today there are very few liberal republicans in the party anymore. But Newt Gingrichs saw the opportunity to be the majority. Yes. Analog are democrats intend in its essence with the antibig corporations and Big Government to be antiwall street is to be antigovernment. How does the of leadership to this . But he is uncontrollable in the Bush White House. And then to support from illinois who was a moderate in deadbeats him by a blind vote and then the Bush White House because gingrichs very much as 0 million. Fried chicken inverses filet mignon . Is that the cultural difference . To be quickly assimilated to see how easily he moves within that culture down there. But bush was of a different era and culture. So with that party and everything. From what you represent. Soda to be reelected and then that was a tough year for republicans. In then gets a following of people then webber alien benedictine the as they grow in the house. Tirade tired to be in the minority. Also after 28 years were in the minority. With the chairmanship san the house and with a the house post office. But it wasnt the ideological purpose. Pcs the first opening . So talk about that. A longtime democrat from detroit taking kickbacks from the staff with the certain pay scale to give cash out of their own pay and gingrich started to go after him is a National Platform to establish himself as a candidate and congressmen of the future. He can be very charismatic. Somebody to watch to be a troublemaker. So for that platform is somebody elected to congress. So then he uses that. And then eventually forces the resignation. And then they use that as his own big bank. But thank gingrich went after him. But then starts that drumbeat after. And they all despise him for that. Because he is not getting along to go along. And to upset everybody. They want to embarrass him. So report with the media coverage. In the debate the command of the subjects. So from the time he was talking as a kid. And wed 10 years old. But he has a gift for speech in talking every day. Several glasses a day. So he took that gift to reach a wider audience. This was when Cable Television was prominent but not cabled news. But i love lucy. There is no talk radio to speak of. So he quickly realized of potency of special orders every afternoon to give a five minute speech that it would be carried over cable in to 100,000 homes around the country. Former congressman dick armey would say would you go give a speech to 100,000 people . He said of course, and that is what you were doing with cspan with special orders. So quickly that is a cult leader getting 700 letters a week. To a the backbench of the Junior Member from georgia this is the abolition of the fairness doctrine . And one of the first members with the email account. And to have a good relationship. But he had the relationship with the way that things were going. And with future ideas and then to go round on tangents. But most members will talk on a global perspective. And how we utilize this . Democrats did not understand until it was too late. With that deep appreciation. But at the end of the revolution because the framers wrote a letter. But the war goes on. It means that the government is a challenge. But he knew exactly what that meant when i quoted that to him. But that biggest fish of also talk about the speaker pro to be vindictive. Then people were generally afraid of them. Up to a lot of no good in texas. He was doing shady oil deals and was beginning of he had this book deal, he got unbelievable amounts of money in loyalty for a book that nobody wanted and nobody purchased. Interest groups exactly. Yeah. This is what first kind of opened up and the first wound which gave the opening to go in and then using the investigation that he had to find out all the other shady things that he was involved in. Of course, this took was over a period of months. This just wasnt oneday event or oneweek event. This took place over, you know, six to nine months. He didnt have a gavel or investigative staff or anything like that . No, own staff. And people leaking stuff too. Exactly, political enemies of wright who were leaking stuff to him, a lot of people like that from texas that were happy no, but after shady cadillac deals and shady oil deals, shady cattle deals and shady book deals, i mean, now democrats vote of investigation. And remembers the time. His resignation was live in all three networks. Second aligned to the presidency of the united states. This is big medicine and, of course, he resigns but its all due to gringrichs unrelenting pursuit of him. But memories are long in this business, but he revenge is long. He becomes speakers and writing books and literally hundreds of complaints filed by democrats and they end up getting him on one. On one which is really kind of silly to be quite honest. He made elusion to fundraising appeal in letter to henry kissinger, kissinger was going to be down in georgia giving a speech and gringrich wrote him a letter and asked him to meet with some highdollar rollers down there. That was the one violation of house ethics rules. You can throw him out of the house for Something Like that. End up paying a fine and, of course, lawyer fees and everything else. That was the only thing they ever got on. He stayed in but clearly the point man and taking a lot of hits for all of this yeah. How difficult was it to get other members to go along after going after bright . Everybody is scared and but he gains momentums more facts come out. Facts are leaked out and political enemies in texas released material or leaked material, then, you know, like everything in washington, everybody is a coward until the end and then they are standing there on top of the mountain to point the flag. Lets talk a little bit, gringrich, bush comes in and raises signs a bill to raise taxes. It was more than that because his signature issue in 1988 was read my lips, no new taxes. His violating his own new pledge and he did not get most republicans to go along with him on that. Most republicans went with gringrich, the vote went down to defeat. Bush runs in 88, read my lips, no new taxes, by 1981 hes proposing new taxes and now reagan republicans like ed rollins who is at the Senatorial Committee and your friend and gringrich and others, then weber and jack camp and others, theyre basically urging bush, you have to find another way to find sources of revenue but you cant violate campaign openly. Very openly. He holds a press conference and then he goes jogging and all the National Media is there capturing him jogging and a reporter asked him, the whole gaggle of the press corp. Was there and the reporter asked the president , what about read my lips and he runs by and points hips, hes making a mockery to the pledge to the American People. You think what perspective divided Republican Party that never healed and parrow took advantage of that. I think the best biography ive seen written about newt. Very historical in context. I and an easy read, by the way, we talked about newt and bush. Newt sees when dick cheney, was it dick cheney that gets appointed to secretary of defense, that opens up exactly. This is what made gringrich yeah. Outsider trying to make. Tell us about that. Paul who was leader, becomes secretary of defense, and cheney would have stayed and gringrich would have stayed because of fate and its voted down in the senate to be secretary of defense and bush looks around and cheney is very qualified and a good nominee and good antidote and so he nominates dick cheney which opens up the wip position. He always thought about being speaker of the house but cheney was very popular, cheney was very well thought of. He wouldnt have beaten cheney. He worked with him well. Right. Exactly. The question whether or not cheney would have become speaker in 1994, would he have created the political conditions that gringrich did which led to the contract which led 104th republican congress. Like all historical figures, persistence, third time, how many people run three times before they win a seat after getting caught and a little bit of luck. Luck, persistence, intelligence and, you know, belief in his own abilities to lead. What did the Bush White House, the last thing they want counting votes for them is Newt Gringrich. Specially gringrich says im not going to be george bushs whip. Theres never good relations gringrich and the Bush White House anyway and john who was then bushs chief of staff and dick, budget director made it even worse. They didnt help bushs cause on capitol hill, in the house and as a matter of fact at one point, relations were badly that they were ban from going to capitol hill because seemed like every time they went up to capitol hill, new enemies were created. Interesting. Newt, ph. D which is very well respected, very Selective School in the south. Thesis was on Economic Policy in the congo. I never read it. [laughter] its one of the few books he didnt published, i guess. Exactly. When i pointed that out to him, he did say i did have an offer to have it published. But it seemed like ivy leagues, they look down on him, did that create within newt you have to feel that to some extent . Im sure that there was some sort of to tell you, you mentioned tommy, debating skills, i realized he went before the Oxford Debate Society in the 80s to debate u. S. Policy toward nicaragua and debated to the nicaraguan foreign minister and the liberal students voted gringrich the winner of the debate and that tells you about gringrichs debate skills. He wasnt hart of that intellectual group as it comes out. No. He challenged that every segment. They did everything they could to knock him down. I think he looked at them with mirth, he could carry on a conversation about wellington but also talk about Atlanta Braves and their chances of winning. He had a different world view. At the end of the day, politics become a clash of yes. When you look ahead of the Republican Party today, clearly newt saw that the president ial coalition could become a congressional coalition. Absolutely. He was the first one to do it. As you know, after election are local concerns, hes the first one to actually nationalize and make it a referenced of of the Republican Party, reagan Republican Party and bushs presidency and lays out specific issues that theyre going to theyre going to pass if 104th Congress Goes to the Republican Party. Corruption with term limiting speakers, committee chairmanships, closing offices. A race against a democratic incumbent in fairfax county. It was a good race. I will never forgot the ad they had against me, my pollsters said you won because that was th