And previous ep soats website our website, and click on the index tab at the 0 top of the page. [inaudible conversations] no one is here to talk to me or hear me. [laughter] thank you for coming out this evening to hear our favorite historian stephen ha hardy. And hes a longterm journalist and the history magazine. Hes a captivating speaker, at least i always feel that way after id heard him talk and he shares fascinating stories full of intrigue and courage that many of us have never heard about. Well hear about his new book, escape from paris, which is based on official american, german, french documents and as well as interviews. Its a story of droup aviators, taken to nazi occupied paris and please join me in welcoming him. No pressure there. I would like to personally thank you all for coming. I really appreciate it when people show up and i hope not to bore you. I want to give you a quick background on myself because people wonder how you wind up writing history. I was born in california a long time ago. And my father and you think clals fought in world war ii in the pacific. And i hear their stories about battling the japanese. And i enlisted in 1971, in retro expect its not the best decision i made because six month later i got run over by an armed armor carrier. Im now a disabled veteran. And i spent time in there. This was before the internet and i had to sit up. Whatever i was going to do i had to hold it over my head. Every couple of days, a volunteer would come from whatever library the hospital was attached to. Of course, being a military hospital, most of what they had on offer was military fiction or military history so it kind of reawakened my interest in military history. I eventually got out of the hospital, but wearing several kinds of braces. The army decided i could no longer be an infantryman. They made me a journalist. I went the last part of my time in the army doing radio and pri print. And the meant i got out. I went back to school in santa barbara. A wonderful place to surf which i did in those days. Two degrees from university of california. I was a historian for the bureau of Land Management which was interesting because i was doing historical studies of Indian Tribes which i knew nothing about, i was a modern military employee and i eventually i went to a wonderful place to work, a staff historian for the air force and army. It was this the army i was working at the u. S. Army center of history in d. C. That i heard the story that became the last battle. The story is the only time in world war ii when americans and germans joined forces and fought together and they did it to defend a medieval castle in austria that was filled with irritating french v. I. P. s about to be murdered by the oss and the only time in American Military history that u. S. Soldiers defended a medieval castle. Its a great story made into a may have now and others followed and bringing us up to escape from paris, when i finished the last book, my agency as all literary agents do, whats your next book . Im not sure if i want to, how about the history of tsunami or ocean rise . He said, no, no, youre a military historian. And i said do you have any idea . Paris and americans, thats a great idea except there were no americans in occupied france. He said im sure ill find some. [laughter] so 18 months later i find out there were americans a they had been aviators shot down and managed to be with the wing of the French Resistance and they were generally moved to larger cities, largely paris because Young Americans who didnt speak french would stand out like a sore thumb. Paris at that time 3 million people, lots of stories a day, bastille day. There was a bombing raid conducted by the 94th bomb group which was in suffolk, england. There were several groups involved. So over 100 airplanes bombing targets in and around paris. For the group, it had been turned into a german airfield. Even before the group got there. Four planes were shot down in the space of 20 minutes. Thats actually not true. Three of them were involved down and okay, i had wanted to to a story about the air force, but i wanted to do a story about the French Resistance and write something that told the war of women in world war ii. It was a hugely overlooked concept and it came together that this book brings those threads together. So i had found the story about the 94th bomb group and i still dont have it and guys getting shot down, okay, whats that about . And i managed to find the one guy who became sort of the focus of my story, a guy named joe cornwall from washington state. He was a waste gunner in one of the b17s and joes aircraft, this is probably a little arcane, but b17 bombers from world 2, generally carried, in addition to the crewman, they had on decide Jefferson Davis dixon. Yes, he was from the south. Jeff dixon was a fascinating guy and i thought for a while to build the book around him. All the reasons in a while what youll hear out. He had been in the army and he had been in a signal core photographic unit. After world war i, he, along with many others, took his discharge and stayed in france anding managed to become a millionaire, promoting boxing and bicycle races and he happened at within point to own the hippodrome in paris. And war happened and leave his business, taken over by the germans. And relocated speech. They made him an officer and a Motion Picture solver and a lost you have heard of and you havent heard of to shoot care yell combat sequences for some of it landed into Memphis Belle. You saw the film for that. And so many in clark gables firm that many have never seen. If you google clark cable and b17 and a documentary that he made and he flew as a gunner on several of the missions. I found the schedule, cornwall. Okay, hes an interesting guy and then i track down his stepson who lives in olympia, washington. And hes now in his 70s. The mans name is nate, and loved and truly, truly loved his stepfather. I told him id love to fly up and see any memorabilia. Like any researcher i flew up, flew into seattle and drove up. He had laid this up on tables in his garage and it was photos and metals and log books from friends and relatives and other good stuff. One i think that caught my eye was pa simple Leather Wallet and joe carried on the day he died in 1978. I think it was. And its been a while since i wrote the book. Do you mind if i go through this . Sure, go ahead. Theres a license, a Social Security card, a va health card, much like the one i carry and inside on a very hard to see inside pocket, i saw some sort of crinkled paper. And i hoped opened it up, and letter in french a couple of weeks after joe went back to england and it was signed yvette. And i thought, okay, this story got a lot more interesting. So nate had never seen the letter, i showed it to him. He wasnt particularly interested in it and i copied it as he did with all of the other stuff. I do i look at who this is . It six or six months and im assuming shes gone. She wasnt gone. She just turned 99 years old and she lives in a home. And i speak so we went to france and research in paris and we were able to talk to her for an entire day and plus, a great lunch out of it and an excellent bottle of champagne. So that sort of came together in how this book sort of gelled. I wont tell you all about it because i hope youll read the book. Its to me, its an interesting story that combines, you know, red light history and a love story and noir and in a way i wont explain, it involves concentration camps. So, its a very involved book. It covers a lot of ground. The only one really negative review ive had so far, it was some gentleman who got a preview copy and i dont know why you put a stupid love story in this world war ii book. I think the j sort of of missed the point. So if Joe Louis Cornwall and guests are the chief, in paris is a lead character with it. Its a huge multicampus south of the river and it, among other things, museums and military barracks and hospitals for veterans. And houses kna napoleons tomb. They were take p to pour and usually in that kind of situation, these airmen would only been 0 the ground in occupied france for two weeks as long as it took the French Resistance to get that way out pt and that was working over the mountains and trying to get from there back to england. And those a home run if you made it back to noned. In joes place there were various continuation involved. They ended up in several months living with them in their small amount and he and and they actually went to the local pari parish priest getting married. When joes time came, the story continues from there. Not ong after he left the family was arrested and thats sort of the latter part of the work. Its to me, its a very affecting story which yvette when we talked about it didnt want to talk about for various reasonings. Fortunately in doing the research, i found several documents, a couple of books and several magazine articles that were written by other people who were arrested, who reported to gaernl on exact the same train that denise and their parents were and they describe the enthejourney. One thing she said same train, same journey and that was the way i described something that evot didnt want to describe. Especially when people are arrive, you have to be aware of the sensitivities. One of which was a very deep and important relationship that this now very elderly woman in her youth. She was 22. And she remembered it all of her life and when i real leasiz and he was happily mother after the war and for reason he couldnt be with eyet. I real highses i realized that shed read the book and i turned over and she sobbing, id been watching a movie. And i thought, okay, i must have told the story in an understandable way. So really without getting into too many things, this book i suffer from a rare actually not that rare, a lot of writers have it, its called research rapture. And it means you are so into findings things out that its difficult to put them down and begin writing. It happened on this book, too. A lot to find out. My wife with her french was incredibly helpful and i hired an American Woman living in chance for the last 30 years, used to be pa press journalist and now is friend of ours. Did a lot of archives. And especially any archive you have to put in in the morning and generally you get it before you turn it back in so they can close the archive. So i tend to hire people to do that for me, but then, 0s, i do a lot of my open and having worked at the army u. S. Center for american history, im pretty good with army records, with air force records, but a lot of this was nonmilitary documentation. Letters between people. One of the ways i fleshed out the the romance between joe and yvette was because several other american aviation and british af evaluators who had been hid there peefl for a time. Described it led to such an amazing thing. Thats how i bresch out a story. When some of the principals or they dont want to be. And i sent a kip to yvette and daughter denise, and unfortunately they dont speak english. I think they will find it brating in a lot of and they sort of lost touch and this will tell a lot for her. And i sent a copy to the stepson. And his wife tells hes fascinated about it and it makes him sad in a good way. This is a part that he never knew about joe cornwalls experiences other than he got shot down over france. Thats how this book got together. Apparently theres a chance it could be a movie. But my experience with books being optioned is sort of, yeah, theres a term in the industry called development hell. Where they will option your book and write a script and start looking for actors and for some reason it takes years to do that, i dont know why, im hoping this one will go more quickly and i have a certain prejudice involved in that, but i just enjoy it. To me, being able to write honestly and concisely and yet in an entertaining way about people, most of whom i never met and was not alive when they were doing whatever they were doing. It can be very satisfying if you do it right and i hope ive done it right. At this point i would like to open it up for questions. Ive spoken less than i might have because when i do radio tv interviews they always tell the story. And my point is always, dont always tell the complete story because we want to have people sign the books. Do you have any questions on this, my other books or life in general. So i can make the assumption that you know the can on of World War Ii History pretty well. How does this give a different angle or add to whats in sis tense . One thing i didnt know, there are several stories that the house being there. I had not realized the european resistance for the british part between 1939 and 1945 and for the u. S. 1942 and thats when they were occupied europe. Allies resistance movements, those working on half of the allies. Helped 6,000 aviators recaptured by the germans and return to allied care tri. To give you a fm between 1942 and 1945 just talking about the 8th air force, the primary unit hospitaling out of britain, these were fighters, transports. 18,000 aircraft went down. Some of those were accidents, most were shot down on went down for a reason we still dont know, so if you think about the b17 as i said earlier, a 10man crew, you know, fair airplanes in one area most of whom that they cant make it bad. If the people on george cornwalls plane on the three got out of it. Thats what happened and the film that we see these guys, Memphis Belle to others where you see the planes cascading out of control. It will just have a certain amount of damage and its a hung of metal no matter what. We saw this just a few weeks ago with the b17 carrying passengers crash and i had rin on that plain because its by f far. And most of the People Killed were in front of the airport. In combat, the people who generally got out of them going down was the waste gunners, bulk, radio man because the people in the front office were trying to keep the plane study for these people to get out. And that was a wrong reacting. The French Resistance. The majority of resistance workers not carrying guns out in the countryside, the majority of people working to help allied aviators were women. That was primarily because, even by 1943, the majority of french men between 18 and say 40 were either still in german p. O. W. Camps or forced labor in germany or in hospital. So things naturally fell to the women and they were good at it. And even though paris had this in 1943. There was a there were a lot of places to hide people and the women primarily would move them from place to place. Once they got to the pryanees. Im sorry, i went on and on. Sir. The back of your book, advanced praise. How does that work . Do you send copies . Generally, all of the people who provided those snippets are not necessarily people i know. Alan first, the novelist. One of my favorites. Host ive been able to work with him. And its stuffing around and great meals and mines. Id read several of his books and thats part of the reason i wanted to write about paris. When you have the manuscript is done, wok, who would you like us to sell it to. Are there core people, in my line of work as a military destroyer and magazine officers. Ive been able to meet a wide range of writers and i picked these folks and they got advanced copies. Book and i do this for other writers. So, Donald Miller guy wrote masters of the kwoir. It was agency on its way to being an h. B. O. Mini series for the last 15 years. He wrote a book about the air force and hes a fairly good friend of mine. And a british author she had read one of my earlier books and was happy to do it. In the business theyre called blurbs. So you ask people you admire who, if youre lucky enough, are your friends who tell you honestly. Ive fortunately never had one go, ill pass. So thats how that comes about. Sure. Love to hear more about your initial contact with eyet and how you won her over and na was quite an event. You know, i started off with the belief that she was dead. Joe had. And ellen hampton, a friend of ours, i had her initially going through the french archives which can be a mind numbing experience. But she knew people, she went to the right people and i said, it would be great if yvette was still online. And 90yearold french women apparently dont spend a lot of time online. So one day i get this email from ellen and she said, i found her. Shes alive and it literally blew me away. I thought, number one can you talk to her initially. Im here for some questions because ellen is fluent in retch. So she did she was toibl to find her. At this point she was living in this town. Its connected to the cathedral that was built for these wounded veterans, but also the hospital was built for. The americans who are being hidden, if they got it early enough in the morning because the hotel was open throughout world war ii, museums were opened, the hospital for invalids was open but there was a german garrison in the northwest quarter that had taken over some german barracks. There were german guards Walking Around plus all the people coming in, a lot of germans as tourists to see the tomb was incredibly popular after hitler had his picture taken standout at it. Even to this day there is literally scratch marks from the hobnailed boots because every german soldier wanted to have his or her picture taken there. We i i did know what were getting into, when we are offered this opportunity so seven or eight people and a gentleman who runs one of the military museums, the museum of the french army, so he led us up there. The first part of it is stairways that were built in the 18th century. And apparently have been repaired since then. You finally get up in the attic of the cathedral. It looks like an inverted boat because of the roof. Kind of a broad walkway and when Walking Around like this and you come to a little covered whole and the german said this is really amazing. Theres a a whole the look straight down on to the altar of the cathedral. He said back in 18th century all of these disabled veterans were required to go to mass and at some point during the best summary of the book would be shoving white doves downed through this hole to sort of illustrate the divinity of the process. Which i thought was interesting. You walk down a little further, walked out into an area at the base of that golden dome which is between 8090 feet off the ground. It is an incredible view of pears, off to one side is the eiffel tower. You can see all kinds of things. The problem is what i i did knw is the wind blowing throu