C good evening. Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I am margot lurie director of programming and engagement at the museum of jewish heritage, and living memorial to the holocaust. Want to welcome you to tonights event which inaccurate or arts restoration series. As you know the as part of their project to eliminate the jewish culture and identity. On 10 occasions this museum had the honor of hosting restitution to her monies or paintings or other artifact stolen by the nazis and their collaborators have been returned to their rightful owners. [applause] thank you. Some of you were with us last year. We had the u. S. Attorneys office for the Southern District of new york here and we presented a renoir from stolen from her grandfather by the nazis. Its a very moving event and we are proud of that. We hope you join us for the next event in the series. I will be recovering nazi looted art. Two lawyers recovered stolen artwork read the two will discuss several cases and provide an overview of the ethical and legal of issues and recovering nazi legal art. We hope youll join us october 17 at 7 00 p. M. Right here. Tonight we welcome mary anne plane the author of hitlers last hostages a fascinating study of art in the third reich traces the roots of hitlers obsession with art and the vision of a purified nazi state. The author an art reporter for the wall street journal and american cheerleader for the news york times. We are pleased to have her in conversation with Aaron Thompson who has the wonderful designation of being the only fulltime professor of art crime. Following the conversation we will have a knotty and q a so save your questions and following that hitlers last hostages will be on sale at the museum shop in the author will do a book signing in the main lobby with a pen of your choice for like two welcome her livestream it into her joining us live and i want to welcome our cspan viewers. We are going to watch a brief video about auschwitz not long ago and not far away. That is the exhibition on view at the museum and then our program will begin. Thank you very much. [applause] auschwitz, not long ago, not far away now open at the museum of jewish heritage the living memorial to the holocaust. For exhibition tickets visit auschwitz. Nyc. [applause] soon deliberate destruction of art has been a technique of work since the war began because if you destroy the foundations of the peoples culture their places of worship and the beautiful things they decorate their homes with, their creative achievement then you undermine their ability to fight or even to identify as a people. We have seen this in the last few years in the news in iraq and syria where the Islamic State destroyed mosques, shrines and ancient sites and hundreds of thousands of people in that region saw the things they cherished destroyed and seemed they would be the next victim. At a low Risk Strategy for the Islamic State resulted in a huge wave of refugees. Mary lanes book hitlers last hostages explores the many ways in which for hitler also the delivered destruction and looting of art was the key strategy. Hitler would wanted to limit creativity to aryans alone. Lanes book tells stories of artists who courageously fought against hitlers proclamation risking their lives to create art that she also tells the story of more cowardly artists who fought as hard as they could to follow hitlers proclamations whether they were about hating jews or properties she tells enthralling stories about the victims of nazi art confiscations and the machinations of profiteers who sold the confiscated art outside of germany to profit the nazis and themselves and we are fortunate tonight to hear a few of the stories. Mary the book concentrates around one in the news story come to finding of the court. When did you first hear the story . 4 00 a. M. November 19 i was here in manhattan as a reporter for the wall street journal but i got a phonecall. I was used to keeping both of my phones for the journal on when it was active chairman time and an editor told me 1000 printer works have been found in the apartment of a recluse whose father had been a dealer for the nazis. I needed to book a plane and come back immediately and i had 48 hours to ride a story on the front page about this person i had never heard of. That was rather terrifying. I had just turned 26 and i was the chief reporter but this was in the middle of the new york art week. It was a massive economic event that id vote the plane and i went back and wrote a six page story for the journal. It took me on a wild adventure that was very unexpected. A lot of people had written about this. What do you think that they missed that your book includes . When i was originally headhunted to read the book im agent there was talk around it which would have been interesting but i think it would have missed the Bigger Picture that the dealer for the nazis whose son had to work is emblematic of a large problem in germany of this fallout from the war and raising a lot of questions about art. I would deliberately, journalism is a very in the moment thing that in writing the book i wanted to make it a broader story about how this is indicative of a larger trend and also dig into a lot of wise that you dont have to time to dig into in the article so thats why we made a very calculated choice of starting the book with hitler as a child. That is a topic in which many people are naturally uncomfortable because theres a difference between humanizing what we did in recognizing he was feeling. Was a member of the homo sapiens and he would see how someone was born and the book shows the artists who fought against him and for him and how that created the situation that is still a part of today. Theres definitely a lot of emotional pieces in the book. Is there anything they really struck you that had personal resonance . Here we go. I would say it was different from journalism in many ways but one was how attached you get to certain characters, people. One of them was the star to steer who i have the scottish prayer and he clearly pointedly did. I found him in terms of the artist harrowing in its own right. In terms of the artist i found him to be someone i found incredibly moving because he was a household name in germany before hitler was in power and he made a very specific decision to fight against hitler and two fight against it. He is not jewish but he had a lot of jewish friends and he saw this rise in antisemitism and intolerance for womens rights and intolerance for the rights of many minorities and he really put his career on the line and made himself into an artistic activists. You see here he created a work that was criticizing. Wasnt criticizing all of christianity but the politicization of christian teachings and then you also see the judge in the back that is criticizing political corruption in the judicial system and hear an affront to see them criticizing the bellicose nature the country evolve into world war i. Heres another work that again turned criticize christianity and it wasnt. It was criticizing going to war. The quakers in america who got us some are not known for being savvy people defended him and really praised him. He immigrated to america. He died eventually of Substance Abuse issues. He is someone i felt really attached to because i live between germany and america when a lot of germans said soandso didnt want to stick up for what was right to cousin might hurt their career i would point him out. This is your first book. How different was writing it in than writing for the journal are the times . It was a bit of a roll when i started writing for the journal as a fulbright fellow when i was 22. I got headhunted to ride the book in 27ish and now im 31. It was isolating. They think the growth thing speaks. A lot of art journalists are not frankly very good because they get pulled into the whole parties and their a lot of wealthy people. That is the interesting fun part but it is a lot more entertaining than just having hitler is your roommate for five years. Especially when youre working at home and you wake up and you have your coffee and there is a book on hitler. He is sitting on the table. And especially you know one of the reasons there are thousands of books out there about hitler and the nazis in world war ii as there should be one of the things we wanted to do in this book was to narrative nonfiction which means it reads like a story but every. Paul is true. Theres detail about the weather and what somebody war and that takes a lot of time and work that you have to really get into peoples heads. So you were sort of living with it more than you would for an average article. One example of getting stuck was writing about the death of the children. Because i wanted to write about it is the tragedy because it is. These are children of a horrible and evil nazi dictator but they are still, five euros and six yearold kids. I was scared people would think my staying that the death of the small children, is and how meaning be compared to the deaths of jewish children in concentration camps. Let the reality, i just had to deal with it. Children of both jewish and nonjewish heritage will used in harvard during a time. That time period. Assuming what didnt make it to the book. A lot of american audiences shy away from graphic depictions of sexuality and violence. More sexuality in particular sexually ld involving men. Having said we want it calculated in a good way. Consider it i would see. With what we put in. In terms of all of the female artists, they were overlooked. And then deciding okay, do i want to put in because they are relevant to this topic. Which artists wouldbe put in. Because we need to put in a feeble artist. In a lot of female artists didnt make the cut. Was on the one hand i didnt feel bad about it but on the other hand, is just as patronizing not putting in because it is seen awkward. Same way with sexuality, there are certain discussions of male and female sexuality that you put into the book and that others that we thought, not. To the content of the book. This is another great person that is sort of showing political chaos. The problems that can happen a sneak result. Children, whose picture here with this person who committed suicide. This was before. He is assigned of a press tedious our dealer, or historian and he served in world war i and when he did so, hildebrand got the idea that he wanted to become an art dealer and art historian. Also an art director. It was at a time would that wouldbe hard. For an industrial town, and he wanted to show modern and contemporary art to normal people. And to show them how wonderful it was. So after world war i, it became a director and an industrial town. He did just that. He promoted jewish artists and female artists, and it took a lot on change in the name of it because of art. Wont hitler came to power, he sort of can twisted it. Was he going to stick his neck out for these artists or was he going to the low lay low or work with the nazis. He decided to lay low but then went his friends became director of the project which was a project to create a museum in austria to have the best art. And then concurrently, destroy the general art. Throughout youre up. He decided to use his knowledge of modern art and his connections to the nazis. He did so. He worked throughout germany and france and on the side in addition to helping hitler, he did hundreds of artworks that will either wont it didnt quite fit into hitlers museum that will approved or that will degenerate. He destroyed the records which will the records that show where the artwork has been and who at it. So where it left the studio to the current moment. Any investigated him, he was so far as to ask the jewish friends of his who had friends. Then moved to america and they had fresh art and clothing and has a lot of vulnerable jewish people and people who will not jewish but he would also help the nazis so they had a stake in the matter. To write letters about this credibility to the monument friends and got away with it. He died in 1957. In a car crash and his son cornelius, took over hiding the family collection and essentially lived a sneak hermit. That happened for a long time. And they discovered this find later. How did they figured out. So cornelius was on the train coming back from switzerland to where he was. It is known well is just sort of known. The train the people frequently go on. Everyone does. He was asked by the German Customs office across the border if he had been declared and he said no. He acted somewhat suspicious. They search him. They found 9000 euros, about 10200 ish. On cash on him. Which is below the legal met limit of 10000. But as in banknotes which are used typically to hide money but not just one. So they mayday note of it. Later Customs Officials searched his name and saw that he doesnt seem in the system. Its not the our dealer. They ended up i can take a warrant to go to his house. They found about 1300 works of art inhouse. Fight motifs and monet chagall, lieberman, gross, a lot of different artists and there is a motif done by the rosenberg family. Taken off of its structure, the wooden frame and it was rolled up in a can or crate of tomatoes. Which is always where i wanted to put my motif. [laughter]. Another work by maxie berman who had his artwork on the wall. They took these works. They did not disclose them to the International Community which is what they had signed on to doing a 1998 as part of an agreement called the washington principles that they signed in dc. They kept them secret. They did so until the november would i work wrote my first story. They maintained even after it leaked, that this was purely a stacked investigation. It did not have to do with art history. For the fact that his dad was not an important think. Thats how it became in the public. So he wasnt paying his taxes. I think thats the general regarding cornelius. These are some of the works that were in question. The one on the right is very un max. Its pretty rare. Rare for a fun work. Obviously a big nono for hitler. A black person and a white person and acting like normal. These two, this portrays one of the interesting things was they were portrayed as female sexuality this portrayed as positive. And then other ones of showing negative ideas. Imitation of the dead, and antiwar peace would peter was killed in world one. And she him permission to fight. She was torn over that. This is the very haunting think pushing her after her son died and chose to women having again a big nono will get to that in a second but there will a lot of degenerate works in hildebrand claimed many of those private letters that he kept them. Why would he not work to give them back to the right place. Is fascinating. Said sure we want to destroy all of the start but first we will sell it to people outside germany. Make the cash, then you take over that country destroy it later. Yes. Alfred barr, who was the head of the first in new york, actually try to caution a lot of people in the art world about that because the most example was the auction in switzerland, where a lot of people including like this is great. One really great artwork. Barr was notably staying that the be careful. Hitler always thought of himself as an artist first and a politician second. The taking over the culture before actually taking over the territory. And you follow the career of the artist. What happens. Dont get me started. So amelia as you can see, an older artist significantly older than hitler. And would hitler took power, he was sort of considered we do think of iconic american rock music, we think of Bruce Springsteen for example. It was sort of like that except for german art. So the time that hitler took power and low before that, he was an iconic german artist it wouldbe him. So would hitler, came to power known it was in it very interesting position because harry had an established career. Everybody knew who he was. In the process for nova in the minds of the nazis, was an established artist, aryan married to an aryan, and if you cant hear this, i put in a lot of quotes. It was very known for using the strong color, freedom which germans consider maybe it cradled the german culture and civilization. A lot of is portraying the strong and Natural World germany. The downside, was that he was known for pieces like this one in the german trove, or portraying ethnic minorities in non pandering ways. In some jewish friends. He loved using color for failing where hitler was very much into sort of realism of you need to paint way it looks. So it would later on actually was curious and used the saw him trying a dog. So nova, was very odd odd position so he effectively decided to help hitler. Invited into the 1933, november 10th anniversary where hitler was there, and he wrote about how wonderful it was to serve hitler that went out the culture of a radio. He immediately wrote a book about the conflict, which is the clear riff on give up. It means heres a struggle. In it, he modeled the whole book the First Edition in german. He talks about nature and culture and how he met jewish persons was 17 and the jewish person said he had a sort of instinctual to bet every woman including a child. This was so obviously characteristic of jewish people. This halls green. He really try to be part of hitlers group. He was not jewish let the shine of the nazis of his rival. Max had signed was like, i am not jewish. Alas the live like jewish. It backfired. Hitler didnt like about. Anova became the moat teacher artist with the works in 1920 the early 1937. In the nova fashion himself as sort of went off into the countryside and just sort of disappeared for the rest of the war afterwards he fashioned himself a sneak victim is true but not until he tried to get there. That is something that i read an article about, coincidentally. And our news, about nova. Its sort of how his estate now, is coming to terms he was anti somatic. Any company but covered it up. And i remember researching the book and i was buying i dont know if you bought watch family guy but theres a part in family guy where ryan and mick in there on votes and there on the tour and brain points out that everything is missing. The tour guide until 19331945, and tour guide monday revision. [laughter]. It was very funny. For writing this book, i bought the definitive biography nova. 500 pages. There will two pages a 1932 to 1945. Only two pages. The net literally said, it was really stressful so i just decided to take a break. And going vacation. It was like a live. [laughter]. That is nova in a nutshell. He is this teacher of our expedition. Especially we do compare them to grove to risk his whole career, to stand up for what was right. I found it that these two artists very striking in their differences on how they would help defend freedom. In the jewish people. Speaking a vacation. I began to learn about the importance of culture would i was in graduate school in archaeology. And in january, they would send me during the somber. They said you would have