2026. Really . The only thing we learn from history as we have heard the cliches that we learn nothing from history. Eight empires and great nations. The average length is 250 years. Some lasted longer like the roman empire, but all followed the same pattern to decline. Among the characteristics that contributed to those declines were Massive National debt. United states 23 trillion and growing. Just the interest on it alone is greater than the Gross Domestic Product of some nations. I liked President Trumps state of the union speech the other night except for one thing. He did not talk about cutting a single Government Program. This is the only nonpartisan thing that happens in this town is spending. The second contribution to the decline of great nations and superpowers and empires is uncontrolled immigration without assimilation. We want people to come to america but we want them to come legally and in an orderly fashion. To be assimilated like immigrants of the past and become fully americans. Then we have a loss of a moral sense also contributing to the decline of great nations. In America Today as cole porter wrote in the 1930s, anything goes. If you say stop or this is too far, you are immediately denounced as bigots or one of many folds. All of this is not a prophetic book. I am not wearing a sandwich board saying the end is near. But i am saying that while america is a great nation, there are certain seeds that are being sown for our destruction and we have to renewed the values that the greatest generation that we have been living off of by inertia for the last 60 or 70 years fought and died for. To that point, america is in peril because we have lost our sense of right and wrong and no longer submit to a Higher Authority by our own experiences. When i look around the country i see most people trying to do the right thing. Where specifically do you see society going wrong. I think we are tolerating virtually everything now. You take a look at the value of human life. Not just abortion, weve had 60 million of them since roe versus wade did there are other challenges now. Chicago, baltimore. Major cities. Major shootings every weekend. So many now that it hardly even makes the news. This is how cheap life has become in america. People getting shot and killed because driveby shootings, Somebody Just me, i wanted the Leather Jacket or the expensive shoes. Now we are seeing in the debate against healthcare, the Clinton Administration when president clinton put hilary, his wife, in charge of reforming healthcare in america. The pressure to save money will be so great that once you have devalued human life at one end, the pressure to devalue it at the other end and in between, if you are not contributing enough in your taxes, taking more than you are getting, it will start at the extremes. Once the precedent is set like doctor assisted suicide in some states, particularly the west coast, it is a very slow step to the next step. One of the other things i mentioned was a poll of millennials, a loss of a sense of god or a transcendent also contributes to the decline of nations and superpowers. You have to have a reason for living on this earth. There has to be more to life than that. 20 of millennials according to the polls had no religious affiliation at all. They answered none when asked by the pollsters. Whether you happen to be religious or not. A lot of conservatives say they believe in american exceptionalism. Is that a little foolish . America is unique among nations. There is no lifetime guarantee on it. As i argue in the book, the roman empire, bet eternal city, it is now in ruins. They thought that they would be around forever. Overextension. Military experimentation, military overreach. 1972 democratic residential candidate, senator from south dakota, friend of mine said during the vietnam war, we cannot be the policeman of the world. It is true. President trump has been jawboning, not only our nato alliance, but others that have benefited for decades from the Nuclear Umbrella to pony up and pay more and to provide more troops in their own defense. I think that that is a very good thing. Certainly on the right path on that issue. In your book you go through eight different empires. I think some people may find it tough to draw the parallel between the Ottoman Empire what the salt instead and what americans are doing. What are you seeing that is similar . Human nature never changes. You cannot change their human nature. Greed, envy, entitlement. Sexual pleasure. Military overreach. The seven deadly sins. You cannot change human nature. The point of the book and looking at the history of these various empires and superpowers is to say, okay, you had emperors, you had all of these other titles and people dressing differently and the rest, but they all suffered from the same internal dysfunction. By the way, this is why a sense of the transcendent and being accountable to god is important for the extension and life of any nation. You also go through, and it is really fascinating, you state that there are cycles that these empires go through. The thesis right now is we are in the cycle as decadence. What does that mean exactly . The book is based on an essay by the late diplomats as you mentioned. The final stage of collapse, lincoln talked about this. If america is to fail it will fail from within before it is ever conquered from without. Reprinting his harvard and templeton prize speech in the book. He was asked repeatedly can you refresh the listeners on who that is. A great russian writer and so many others. A prisoner in the soviet union. He was finally released. He came to america to warn america, as im trying to do in this book that there is no lifetime guarantee on any nation. To get back to the decadence thing, there is a common denominator. A loss of a sense of god. Military overreach. Uncontrolled emigration without consolidation. A loss of a sense of right and wrong. Two day if you say anything is wrong, behavior or whatever, you are immediately denounced of being one of many kind of photos. This keeps a lot of people from speaking out because they dont want to be denounced and criticized. The national debt, no one is talking out. The last time there was any serious addressing. Why do you see that as a serious issue . Lets remember when paul ryan was speaker of the house. He came up with a serious proposal which everybody knew needed to be done, but was afraid to talk about. The two major drivers of the entitlement programs and the debt which continues to grow. He was denounced by the left. A political ad was created pushing granny in a wheelchair over a cliff. Very funny, but not a serious response to what Everybody Knows must be done. The politicians of both parties continue to kick the can down the road. We need to reform social security. Not Everybody Needs it. It should be needs tested. Anyone who touched it, we will guarantee, you will keep your social security. That sounds great, but Everybody Knows you cannot continue to spend with more and more people retiring and fewer people working or the programs will be bankrupt. The politicians dont want to do anything about it. They are afraid they will be denounced like paul ryan. You talk about a loss of a sense of duty. It seems to me that these politics that seem to refuse to take this on dont have a sense of duty there. How do you think we could restore that. Younger people dont serve in the military and dont know anybody that did. When i was growing up, not only my dad, but many members served in the military. My generation, i have a lot of friends are voluntarily joined the military after 9 11. Good. Millions of people on active duty right now without a draft. I do feel that when we talk about millennials, they get swept under the rug. In your generation, people were drafted. They did not have a choice. My brother is in the marine corps voluntarily. A lot of loss. It gets swept under the rug. I think a lot of people care. I think everybody ought to do some kind of Public Service to serve their country. Could be the military, could be in private, it could be in addition to the job. The freedoms we enjoy are not the natural state of humanity. If you look around the world as i argue in my book, denial of womens rights, lack of a free press, all of these things seem to be the norm. We have to renew, like a library book if youre old enough to remember them. I still have a library in my town. To have a library card, though . My kids do. Legitimately continue the borrowing experiment. Built in a sustained america. Weve been through the revolutionary war against a superior power. A great depression. Recessions. Vietnam war. Now we are facing perhaps the greatest challenge of all. Terrorism and the growth of china and its aggressiveness around the world under the radar for a lot of people. They are Building Bases in south america. Nobody is really addressing these things. These values, we cannot live off the inertia of previous generations that share them. God bless those people that volunteer for the military. Not only after 9 11, but since then. Some just volunteered to get their tuition paid for and that is fine. We are very grateful for them. They dont do it for the benefits. The va has not been very well ran lately. What do you think the differences between the greatest generation. I do think that you are right. It goes to a loss of sense of duty. Patriotism, shared values. What do you see . I think, you know, the whole idea of obligation, we have an obligation to transfer to our children and grandchildren, the virtues and values that we inherited. If we are of a certain age. Most of the world war ii generation is gone now. We still honor them in many ways, but, remember the super bowl where several veterans of world war ii where 100 years old, 100 being the birthday of the nfl. Nice little connection there. But they are fading. You will remember, i think, certainly you have studied the history, those that came back from vietnam were spat upon, demonstrated against, treated as murderers and the rest. We have not really seen an appreciation of those that have served their country and served it with honor and distinction. We do not teach patriotism anymore. They have done away with the pledge of allegiance and a lot of Public Schools. This is america. Excuse me. If you want to pledge allegiance to your country, why did you come here. If you do not teach these values , yes, indoctrinate those virtues which has a negative connotation, but in freedom, duty, honor and country have to be taught. You do not catch them naturally like you catch a virus. I am so curious about your thoughts in the current political environment because of your history with faith and politics. You were a Founding Member or a veteran of the majority, but you did break with it once you saw was being produced by a power. It seems like there are a lot of parallels today. There are. I learned that virtue and morals do not come from the top down, they come from the bottom up. Not only true in this country, but virtually every other nation that has sustained beyond its birthdate. I think that, you know, faith is something that can be transferred to others, but it cannot be done by the government you cannot expect, especially people that do not believe as i do to accept what i believe based on legislation or president or election. I think that you can argue in the Public Square without saying you are trying to impose biblical values upon people. Certain things common to all humanity. Treating others with respect. Equality for women. Golden rule. Love other people as you love yourself. We could use more of that in washington. You asked about politics. I have been doing my column now for almost 36 years. Twice a week. Do the math. I know. Things have really changed a lot. Part of it is the 24seven news cycle. Part of it is the polarization that im not seen since the vietnam war. I would argue in some ways it is even worse. People do not know each other anymore except by labels. Simply reinforcing what they already think. They do not listen to another point of view. You had a column common ground. I think that it is harder to do now. My argument was, look, i dont care if it is liberal or conservative or program. Lets have an unbiased look at it. If its producing the results as advertised by its charter or legislation at a reasonable cost and it cannot be done better by the private sector, we keep it. If not, we get rid of it. We do that in business if you have a sales plan. If your competition is selling more items than you are and your plan is failing, you get rid of it or you go out of business. Why cant we do that with government . The only proof of eternal life in washington is a Government Program. It is easier to kill a vampire than a Government Program. We can even injure much less than actually cut it. You know, there was a federal tea tasting commission for years before that went out of business. A National Helium reserve when people thought that dirigibles may be useful in warfare. After the explosion in the 1930s, part of the expression, shot that down. This is the problem. Once a Program Gives past, they forget about it. Bureaucracy grows. I did an interview with betsy devos. Trying to cut the federal presence in public education. Her predecessor in the Reagan Administration try to get rid of it. Could not do it. You have the teachers unions and all this stuff. I think that we need a top to bottom look at our government, its purpose and the increasing loss of individual freedom as government grows. The topic of christians and government and the media. To date evangelicals are perceived by many as one more Interest Group attacking the Republican Party and especially President Trump. They need to make a choice as to which one is there true master. They cannot choose both. A lot of my evangelical brother and, i love President Trumps policies. I think they are working better than any president republican or democrat we have had in recent years. Whether it is unemployment or employment across all demographics. The stock market. Do you think that that is him or just a fact there was unified republican government and maybe some of the business thought pressure was relieved. In the beginning. Of course, the first year or so. Democrats were still critics of president obama. The power is limited in some ways. A lot of it has to do with consumer confidence. Asking a question about the evangelicals. In terms and issues, whether it is prolife, religious freedom, second amendment, he has been better than any republican or democrat president including ronald reagan, in my memory. Do a lot of them like their personality . Do a lot of them like his language . No. They have been given the choice in 2016 between Hillary Clinton who was far less liberal in their minds and trump who may have been imperfect morally, and arent we all at some level, but you appealed to them on the basis of the policies in which they believe. We will have the same choice this year. Jesus said my kingdom is out of this world. That is the higher kingdom and all the rest is just, you know, the rest. I am sympathetic to voters that make that choice. In washington there is a lot of christian republicans you have to make a choice about how they can survey president. Who forces people to defend really tough things. Unchristian like behavior. What advice do you have towards a faithful young person who is asked to serve the president , but may be uncomfortable with some of those things . In terms of christian like behavior, i am not 100 in that area either. We have all fallen short in the glory of god. We are all pressing in the upward way. I think, look, no one is Perfect People in congress that are imPerfect People. Bill clinton certainly had his problems. This is the kingdom of this world and this is how it operates. You have to look beyond that, in some areas and decide on the policy matters. It is too easy to say we are not electing a deacon or an elder in our church. Okay. It would be great to have somebody that combines all of these things like mike pence. I have known him for 30 years. He has a serious christian. He was made fun of when he said he would not eat along with the woman unless his wife was present. A lot of people mocked him. Then came along for the harvey scandal. Nobody ever got in trouble for what they did not do. If we impeach trump, mike pence is there. I dont know if i should tell this story or not. You definitely should. The pornographer larry flynt, who i knew a little bit because of the profession, not because i was engage in any activity. You just knew of him. I met him a couple of times. Where . He was on fox once. I thought youd be interested in something. This was when he was doing Background Investigations on conservatives and christians that were hypocritical and out having affairs and other things. Before the clinton impeachment. That is right. We offered a Million Dollars to anyone that could expose these people. I said what is that larry appeared we did a Background Investigation on you. We did not find anything. Personally approved by larry flynn. I guess thats a relief. [laughter] youre looking in the wrong place for my sins. That is not one of them, fortunately. Steps of impeachment. Mitt romney was a loan republican vote. I did want to ask you, you often reference romans 131. No authority except god and those that exist have been instituted by god to argue against things like impeachment and removal. If you believe in the scripture as written, does that mean any elected president can do whatever they like . Barack obama, President Trump, clinton. We have a constitution. People swear to uphold the constitution. I believe that there are several areas where they intersect. Otherwise jefferson w