Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion Of The Boys On The Bus 20240713

Watch live coverage of the house on cspan, see the senate on cspan 2. Good evening, everybody. Welcome. Im mike friedman, the 113th president of the National Press club, and what an honor it is to have this as the First Program on my watch this year. As the former general manager of cbs Radio Network news and former managing editor for the broadcast division of united press international, the boys on the bus was required reading. And i had the pleasure and the challenge of having on my upi team one of those boys, the legendary chamberlain of upi. It sounds like a lot of you knew him. Looking forward to a terrific discussion this evening. Now i have the pleasure of introducing the chair of the National Press club history and heritage team, the 87th president of the National Press club, the bureau chief of the guy gaylord News Washington bureau of the university of oklahoma and a dear friend, mr. Gill kline. [applause] thank you very much, mike. The role of the National Press clubs history and Heritage Group is the legacy of the clubs 112year history as well as to explore the history of journalism, especially in washington. We are pleased that on april 27th, a new book, new history of the club, called tales from the National Press club is scheduled to be published by the history press, exploring events that happened at the club that have had an impact on american and world history. This event tonight was proposed by our moderator evan grovener who is part of the Great Washington journalism family. For generations they published National Geographic magazine, founded by eds great grand father, Alexander Graham bell, who by the way invented the telephone. [laughter] ed is now editor and publisher of the American Heritage magazine, a magazine that has inspired generations of young historians. Ed is also the publisher of 13 history excuse me, ed is also the author and editor of 13 history books, and hes a Third Generation club member. Ed will introduce our distinguished panel, who not only were on the campaign chronicled by the book the boys on the bus, but also cover president ial politics in many of the 12 elections that have followed. We will have about an hour with our panel, and then we will open it up to questions from the floor. I will pass around the microphone for you so you can so your question can be picked up by cspan. I ask you to ask succinct questions r and if you ramble, the microphone might disappear. Immediately after the program please join us for a reception for our guests. Ed, thanks so much for doing this. The floor is yours. [applause] thank you, gill. Also congratulations on your book that just came out on lafayette square. I dont know how you found so many good history stories from one amazing, great book. Welcome, everybody. Were really pleased with this crowd. Were going to have a lively discussion tonight about political campaigns and journalism, specifically about the experiences of our three distinguished panel members. When the boys on the bus book came out, a reviewer wrote that it described a whole gaggle of political reporters, pundits, up network, wire service, hacks, hatchet man, all crammed with typewriters in the press bus, dogging the candidates all looking for a piece of the story, something to peg their best words on. That may be a little over the top, but the book really did provide a fascinating window into how we learn about politic political campaigns and the people who bring those stories to us like the distinguished journalists on our panel. For most of you, they dont need an introduction, but i will give brief ones anyway. A columnist with the Dallas Morning News and was that papers Washington Bureau chief for nearly three decades. He covered the Mcgovern Campaign for ap which gave him a special status, with reporters looking over his shoulder to see what his lead was the next morning. Karl is the past president of both the Gridiron Club and the White House Correspondents Association where he had the distinction of being roasted by john stewart. Karl recently published his memoirs entitled adventures of a boy on the bus. You will know the next panelist, he was known as the kid on the bus, even though he worked for the boston globe for four years. After the 72 campaign, helped manage the globes coverage of School Desegregation in boston which won a pulitzer prize. Tom was later the long time washington correspondent for the globe and reported on ten president ial campaigns. Hes been a frequent commentator on pbs and the networks known for his insight, wit, and handsome bow ties. [laughter] [laughter] also written five books including most recently the road to camelot. Connie chung last but not least so excited shes come down from new york to join us, a true pione pioneer, only the second female coanchor to coanchor a Network Newscast as part of cbs evening news. Also been a Network Anchor reporter for nbc, abc, cnn and msnbc, thats in demand. Couldnt hold a job. [laughter] tim krauss infers that connie disrupted the cozy clubby male world of the boys on the bus by always showing up well prepared, bright and early, with microphone ready and never hung over. [laughter] and never what . And never hung over. Oh, right. [laughter] was a Real Advantage [laughter] i will tell you about that. [laughter] that was the implication yeah, right. [laughter] so anyway, i was wondering if each of you could tell us briefly how you came to be on the campaign in 72 and where were you in your career at the time . Well, youve of course given most of my career and at least since that date, i had joined the ap in 1960 out of columbia Journalism School. I was signed to the tampa bureau. Fortunately three days after i was assigned there, a spot opened up in the new Orleans Bureau, and i if figured new orleans and i figured new orleans was going to be more interesting than tampa. The next three years i covered a lot of desegregation, mostly the legal end of it. June of 1963, after a brief tenure in new york, i got to the Washington Bureau, courtesy of my new Orleans Bureau chief who put in a good word for me. How long ago this was, this was six months before john kennedy was killed, although the day that kennedy was shot, i was due to come in at 10 30 at night. When i called when i heard what happened, i called in and said should i come in now. They said no, come in at 10 30. You could say i wasnt very significant of the ap bureau at that point. [laughter] but as the World War Two generation of journalists began to retire and die off, spots began to open up. In the mid 60s i covered the house of representatives for two years. Then i covered the senate for several years. And in the 68 campaign, i spent some of the campaign covering humphreys campaign. And by the time 1972 came around, i was one of the main ap political writers, along with walter meres at boy who is still around in North Carolina and i was assigned mostly to mcgovern. I covered mcgovern virtually the whole year, and after that, i stayed with the ap a couple of years, but i went to the Baltimore Sun at the end of 1975. I thought i would probably always go to work for a newspaper, and they gave me a good offer to cover politics and the white house. In 1981, a former editor of mine from the ap became the editor of the Dallas Morning News and hired me to be the Washington Bureau chief. And as you correctly said, i lasted 28 years as bureau chief, and i retired ten years ago, but im still writing the column i wrote all those years. Thats how i got where i got. Tom . 1972 was my second of 11 president ial campaigns. I had covered bob kennedy and George Wallace in 1968. But 72 i started in New Hampshire, where i met this one, im pretty sure. Yeah. And so that was that was my second. Tom and i are actually about the same age, but we didnt we shared the number a bit ago, but thats off the record. Whats that . We shared the number oh. But its off the record. Okay. [laughter] but he had a lot more experience than i did. I had just started at cbs news, and i was in my mid 20s. I had only been there a few months, and i was suddenly assigned to cover George Mcgoverns 72 president ial campaign. I was really surprised. But it was it was great, but i was a cub reporter, the third string. In other words, usually there was a first string correspondent, and that was bruce morton primarily. He was smart and respected by even the print journalists and the print journalists did not respect any television journalists. [laughter] truly. I mean, we were, you know, people who talked for a living, didnt think about what we were saying. We were glamour boys. But bruce was good. And i think most people respected him. There was a Second String, and often that was david shoemaker who was very aggressive and i would then be bumped down to third. I primarily covered for radio. That was my job. And i obviously didnt know what i was doing. [laughter] but i persevered. So theres a lot of interesting details in this book. What did you guys think when it came out, and why just briefly why do you think were still reading it today . I was just happy my name was in it and my picture was in it. I didnt like the picture much, but better than no picture. [laughter] im not really sure. I think it captures a time and a place that somehow got a romantic atmosphere about it, and part of it was the thompson side of it. The Mcgovern Campaign you know, he carried one state, he didnt do very well and yet there was a sort of a romance about it. Mcgovern campaign reunions almost up to the point where he died several years ago. the most Senior Network people didnt come out all that much during the general. In fact one of the things that i learned about that part of the trade was how little those guys were. For some of us who had corresponded responsibilities in those days, the rival was very much to be appreciated because the good ones would do your man job for a day and file and you could rest. So was actually kind of nice but i remember toward the end two of the most hawkish of the washington columnist joe all stuff and joe craft famous for his association with kissinger at that time. The mcgovern people god bless them are kind of tough with that sort of thing and i think they showed up thinking it was 1960 and they would immediately be shown with the candidates playing and ushered up to have a drink with the nominee and blah, law, blah. They told crafted mr. Alsup that they would be riding on what we called the zoo plane. [laughter] connie can describe what the zoo plane was like. We were the press and there was an elite group that could fly on mcgoverns plane and they were often part of the pool but then there was the rest of us and we were this gum. We were animals and we were not to be respected. Acted like it too. Yes, we did. I think karl was a big foot. The ap didnt have a big foot rovlin. We had a couple of people who were on the plane every week are the main plane had about 40 journalists and all the major papers were on it. It was the tv crews and when you are the third person with organization of the zoo plane and theres a funny story to shows in some ways things have not changed. One of the people that ended up on the zoo plane was bob novak a columnist because it got mcgovern didnt like anything that he wrote and they put them on the zoo plane. If you think anything is changed i remind you of the story the other day about the npr. Reporter who was not allowed to travel with mr. Pompeo. I traveled with sparrow agnew some in the early 70s and the Washington Post and the Baltimore Sun word allowed to go with him because it was bad for liberals. I will never forget mcgoverns plane. It was called the dakota queen two. The first one was his world war ii plane. He flew the max Bombing Mission during world war ii. But anyway the dakota queen to pulling away from the tarmac in cleveland and everybody waving byebye out the window at alsup and joe craft. [laughter] for a lot of younger people today it must be difficult for them to fathom what it was like for us to file articles when there were no computers and no internet. No email, no telephone. The. We had an ecologically advanced person covering the nominee in the general. Karl has more gizmos than anybody else. I remember coming back from south dakota after the summer with senator mcgovern and senator eagleton had a famous meeting in mcgovern told in a indicated he was going to dont eagleton. This is a story about technology. The ap. Reporter with me who had written the story from the morning paper for the wires and i said you give me your copy. Ill find a phone. There were no filing centers. You had to find a payphone somewhere so you could call your story in. The secret service regarding the payphones. What did you do for radio on a payphone . The receiver part you had to be able to unscrew it and use your alligator clip to your recorder for phony recorder and it was really hard, i mean really hard. I think ira mccaul being asked. Ce. Connie with the film youd have to get that back to new york well before 7 00. You have to send your film back in the morning. Yes. I have a notorious story. My husband told me you have to tell it because it just shows how aggressive and brutal you were you know . She was pretty aggressive. Little me . I wasnt out way, was i . So i will tell if you quickly because its true in those days you had to fly your film to a location where it could be indeed developed or literally flown back to new york on these rickety planes. Maury, i can do this. I was always accused of trying to go around the big guy weather was the first during guy or the Second String guy and he was supposed to show me around and show me the ropes and everything and i kept going around calling new york and trying to sell stories directly for me to do. This time my father had a heart attack so they said you can come home. I said great. Im flying to the location with the film instead of having them do the report. Why dont i do it in you give me the evening news. They went no. You are outrageous. Everybody was appalled. You know . That still happens on tv. Have you ever heard Andrea Mitchell and chuck todd . But im sorry. The one thing that i could add, first of all in the world of. There were portable typewriters. I had an underwood that i had until the late 1930s and you had these little typewriters and you had to have paper. The paper corridor was just beginning to be miniaturized so you could hold it in your hands. In 1968 for. People tape recorders were ridiculous because they got in the way of taking notes. But there was Something Different that is long gone because of the demise of monopolies in the coming age. Once you have nominee the candidates plane always had a guy from this monster whose job it was to make sure wherever you stopped there were several loads of telephones that worked so we didnt have to fight for pay telephone space. There was a Western Union guy and you could write your story. A couple of times i wrote stories in the middle of nowhere i did a once on toilet paper with a pen and a Western Union guy would take it in there would be operators waiting at the next stop who would do the telex transmission. All of that is gone today. I wanted to ask something to connies point about life for you. I mean one of the things about them that perhaps is different from now is this was at the dawn of the let women in the age. 1972 saw the arrival of free people. One end absolutely fabulous correspondent with cbs was just marvelous especially in New Hampshire and later at the convention, Michelle Clark who we lost in a plane crash the following year. She was africanamerican. When i was hired the equal Employment Opportunity commission was putting great pressure on them to higher women and minorities. Cbs news will which was in the neanderthal and still kind of is hired for women one of whom was a black woman and me, a chinese person wesley stall a nice girl and sylvia chase with blonde hair. They were like we are done. And look like one of those tickets in the Old Democratic Party where you had one of everything. There was one other woman, the third woman that year in 1972 who broke through who had been a press. Reporter for the hurst newspapers and cassie macken arrived also in the primaries in 1972 and lit up the sets at the convention. And she is gone sadly in the early 80s but thats really all there was. Connie would go through a stonewall for a story but then you saw the story and i mean it was generational at that time. We had grown up with television. We were totally comfortable with it. Most of us in the personal life and the political life had become comfortable with the Womens Movement that was gathering steam. It was the poor older guys who had trouble a with women and b with television. Good tom married Susan Spencer who was a force to be reckoned with on their own Television News correspondent a long time that cbs. Im trying to wonder if theres some way to have meaningful professional life to see these three that long ago early in 1972. It was the breakthrough candidate remains sadly very male in a lot of respects. It took us longer than the. Side. In 76 there were few women carrying the campaign and by the 80s there were several women covering the campaign of being a change. On your boss Elizabeth Drew was there from the new yorker. No, elizabeth rarely came out at that point mary is different. It. The great mary mcgrory was there and i read her when she wrote for the star and later for the post of course. I used to watch her because i always thought she was an incredible writer and im sure everybody did. And i was such a poor writer. Id sit in the middle of the night in the press room and the two of us would be the only ones there and i was just trying to come up with something mundane so that i could convey what had happened. She was toiling away in the middle of the night writing and rewriting and id watch her out of the corner of my eye trying to give it to me, give it some vibes please. C she had are to achieve that status but she was a character too. I remember the night one of the primaries and im going to take a while yes, they do was wisconsin. We were in a press room and since mary is not here to jump down my throat she might have had a couple with dinner before the returns came in. She was a boston tough talking gal but she was very festive he has about her appearance and her hair was always done. At any rate there we were in this newsroom as the returns started coming that night and mary as i said was a little off but she had a cigarette and she was on the phone gesticulating and the bunch of us were watching the cigarette getting closer and closer to her hair. [laughter] all of a sudden that led up and mary likes men to carry her bags and on this occasion young man sprang forward and poured water on it. [laughter] being the only woman, there was a lot of game playing but i was used to that because it was an everyday affair. It was every day and you would see the me too Movement Today but that then it was a daily occurrence and all of you know what im talking about. You just deal with it. You want me to tell the story or do you want to tell the story . You tell yours first. Remember there were all these things that these pioneers did that helped us establish the idea of women doing this and one of the things was they were one of the boys. Especially this one. I remember one night during the general election we were somewhere and sometimes after we were off wed have a couple before we turned in. Connie was pretty good about hanging out with us a little bit i realize thats how you are getting your story. [laughter] tim kraft says in the book that i was always in my room. No. He never said who i was in bed with. No, he said that in when i realized that karl was breaking stories right in left in you are breaking stories right and left, how did this happen and i realized to go down to the bar and if you would get whoever you can on the campaign a little snookered they might be able to tell you something. There are we arent its three or four of us including connie and how many times have you seen this happen . Some ball bearings salesman in a leisure suit i guess it was started to hone in obviously an upwardly making passes in connies direction. I was struck first of all by how calm and cool she was about it as if she didnt really notice the guy. He didnt understand any cat circling and coming back the way these barflies do sometimes and finally i was he would come back again and i was just starting to get up out of my chair to sort of shoot him away when connie gave him one of the most withering stares i have ever seen in my life and set a line that hits they did with me forever. Said connie, look you dont want to go to bed with me. You would just be 20 minutes later. [laughter] from that moment on connie was one of us. C we were emailing back and forth. He said he had the story. I have no memory anymore. I have forgotten it but you know what i had to develop a little repertoire because there were so many of these coming up every day. One time, have to tell you roger mudd reminded me when roger was writing his book he called me and he said jim dalton jim not met the New York Times and another one jewels witcover who was at that time working for the l. A. Times before he came to the post. I think it was the Biltmore Hotel in philadelphia on the phone on a payphone oldfashioned payphone with their accordion source and a big black payphone and deceit. I was talking to somebody who i had been dating and they came up and pressed their noses against me harassing me and i thought they were harassing me and so they push their way in and i was sitting here and i could see their belt buckles. They were at that height so to get rid of them i pulled their flies down. [laughter] and rodgers said to me did you do that and i went, i think so. Well on that note. Thats a hard one to follow. Did you feel you have a lot of access to mcgovern . A and just curious about what all the journalists when they were covering a campaign whether they would get close to the candidate enough that they felt almost possessive or something. Krause writes about after muskie tanked in the polls seeing a group of his journalists had just not down five rounds of whiskey. Their guy was out. That was one of the things that was most different about 1972 . First of all where on the same plane with the candidate and with the staff and you could go up and talk to mcgovern and things like that and i remember being in New Hampshire in early january of 1972 and there was a story about mcgovern. I rode around with him in the car and the only other person in the car was the driver. I dont know if you want me to tell the story about the thousand . I wrote the story that prompted mcgovern to say he was 1000 behind eagleton and what happened was mcgovern and eagleton had a press conference when they announced that eagleton had had treatment for depression including electric shock treatment and after that story you have to say what the next followup and i saw the post dispatch go into the mcgoverns cabin and i said i have to figure out how to get it. I found out he was playing tennis. He was happen our tennis lesson so i went over to the tennis court where he was and when he was finished i could write up with him to his cabin and talk to him. He said sure. You couldnt get within 10 miles of it today. In most cases you dont fly on the same plane with them. I went back to the pressroom and we didnt have one of those tape recorders because the ap couldnt afford it. We had one of these big things and we had one for the two of us. I got from my colleague not telling them why wanted it because i didnt want to tell anyone what i might have. And i interviewed mcgovern. In the course of the interview i asked him what you think the public reaction to eagletons was drawing will be and he said well have to wait and see. Mcgovern is still supporting eagleton but he says we will have to wait and see. A simple wire service leads totally innocuous. I file it. You have to understand the communications in those days. Half of mcgoverns death is from south dakota and half as washington. They barely have phone communication back and forth. They dont have wire. They dont have an internet they have no way to see my story for hours and hours. When they see my story they go crazy, hes coming back from eagleton we have to do something about it and hurry up. Mcgovern says well i will deny it. The press secretary said i dont think you can do that and of course i had it on tape. His solution was to put up a statement saying in response to the ap story im 1000 behind eagleton. And by the way the statement was put on the wall in the pressroom. And the person who did it is sitting in the third row. [laughter] [applause] she had red hair. Carol friedberg went on to join our racket after the election and had a great life and it was her moment in history. But heres the more serious point. In the book i think is something wrong . No, he got something right and we all got it wrong. His jimmys thesis is the established way of covering politics was full of it. It created a twodimensional linear reality, under reality easily manipulated by politicians. On the Eagleton Mcgovern thing his point was that overall we had blown the story because we fail to transmit how manipulative, i loved eagleton but how manipulative eagleton was in trying to stay on and then how skillfully manipulative to mcgovern was in trying to greece the skids for getting rid of him without having it Dramatic Press Conference saying im getting rid of the guy. You have this confusion but timmys point was that all of this was a farce and not genuine and that is the larger point that he was trying to make in the book. And i think thats one reason if you study today because theres something wrong still with twodimensional journalism. In many respects the hero of this book not with stories about drugs and boos and sex although there are few of those, you could make a campaign more real by going off to pluto with these wild, i mean our favorite one remember in New Hampshire that he had discovered that the reason muskie was a lousy candidate and was boring as, stiff as a board etc. Was that somebody had smuggled up to new england this drug from brazil and he even had a name for it. It made you boring. And then he would go on and describe an actual appearance by muskie which could be like the real guy who was very funny and very profane, worried about his stature but obviously an interesting man. This thing that was campaigning was just not anyway the descriptions were more real than ours and thats thames message. He the wholesale decision about everyone, i dont think it was true with every single. Reporter . Oh no. [spelling] if you look at david broder. You have to weigh in but one of the questions tim is wrestling with on this one and it would come up repeatedly later all the way to today is how could the whole institution have been dead wrong about muskie . Not about whether he was a good guy or bad guy but just what the situation was. It was practically the eve of the New Hampshire primary there was this massive structure. It dominated. But everybody was about hillary too. Its alive and well today. We were just beginning to have a debate in 1972 among ourselves usually in a barroom about whether our coverage was about candidacies in what they were about or hear it came the first time you hear that term is in 1972. In our daily stories, yours as well as mine, if a nominee went somewhere and said something that was the story. And what they usually did was they had one. In the standard speech and that gave you your lead, something to write about. You were at the speech with them but we could hear one new part. He would sit there mouthing the speech that and the candidate was giving a. One of the governance traveling gurus in 1972 was a guy who had been central to president ial politics in 1960, fran sutton was his name. He later went on to become believe it or not the washington operator for the government of saudi arabia. Boy did he get rich. He was marvelous at his craft. One thing he always had with the candidates he was advising he personalize something about the stump speech so at least everybody can have a laugh. Theres one example that involves you and me. Mcgovern would have lines in his stump speech of a classic liberal that he was in the line was every day the big rich businessman can adopt the price of his three martini lunch and a line in the speech would be poor working guy candidate. The thing. What he would do just to lighten things up a little bit and the poor working stiff like karl or tom oliphant or Carl Leubsdorf i realize it comes back to access. I was talking to mcgovern on the plane just before we got off so i was probably slightly in his mind and by then also he was losing the election and he was trying to have a little fun because this was not ending well yes a great one for bob kennedy to who always closed his speech with the same quote from George Bernard shaw. Some people see things as they are and ask why and i dream things that never were and ask why not . And several times kennedy would say into the microphone and so is George Bernard shaw said lets all get to the press bus. And the mood would lighten. Access was very different. Nixon was invisible, absolutely invisible. He was nowhere to be found. It finally became a story at the end of his campaign. And i think all of us felt that no one was pressing him from outside to come out of the bunker and meet with the press. He just would not. You know just before 721 of the boys on the bus at the time was representing the gannett newspaper chain that would later far more famous for that deservedly would be jack germ once. He was technically it was albany but gannett was a chain at that time. It was a real chain and a serious one at things like usa today hadnt happened yet and they did the column in the washington star first and 77. Jack had the idea after the 60s that we needed people who did politics regularly and needed to have regular access to the people who are running just to talk and get to know each other. He organize something which one of us and i cant remember who was called political writers for a democratic society. There were maybe seven or eight and we would have supper at somebodys apartment or house and the candidate and one aide only would come. It wouldnt be it would be in what they call around here deep background meaning you couldnt attribute it to anything and you couldnt even allude to your having talked to your fellow, you couldnt use a quote, there are ways you could say it but you couldnt say it directly and of course no pictures. And no blood test to know why her. You famously didnt you ask ingrid one on camera . Oh yeah just between you and me. My wife had some congressmen in upstate new york who everybody knew was thinking of endorsing ted kennedy for president in the sky was batting a tennis ball back and forthwith a bunch of us one day. My wife finally said while the cameras are running off the record are you going to endorse kennedy . Oh yeah, oh yeah. [laughter] it was rolling and they got a microphone on him. I mean dull. These things were incredibly wonderful. I was very young then and im very but i felt like i knew these people and in a pinch you could have a candid conversation did you think you guys were more irreverent than . He quotes back you at one point when wilde comes out to give a talk to the bus on mcgoverns new economic plan that hes just released and he starts talking and he quotes you as saying boy ive heard a lot of bull ship before but this takes the cake. We eventually threw cordoned off the bus. There was another moment which tested all of us their worth through illustrative of what happened in compared to now. Mcgovern was an early proponent of whats been called the economic demographics. Every business has a certain account they start out in life with. 1000 a person. Is more common today. Nixon had a version of it in 1969. This came out in it was all new. It was called liberal at the time. About a month into an almost aroundtheclock ruthless examination of this proposal, they didnt know how much. Nobody had ever gone into an issue like this with a candidate that deeply and after the election i wish i could remember which Journalism School did it. There was more exposing the deficiencies of mcgoverns economic proposal then was expended on watergate at that time. All the interface got into tims book but there was no internet. It wasnt written about. You could say things off the record and talk to candidates off the record and it wouldnt be quoted. If her. Reporter today turns to another. Reporter in the white house pressroom assuming they have pressroom still and says something its likely to be on the internet tune minutes later. I would also say the Eastern Liberal establishment is still alive and well and it probably is today. I would guess that most all of the reporters did. They probably did not with nixon and get i think all of us believe so strongly that if we happened to be as an individual citizen who might want to vote for that person we would then over backwards to be critical. I thought every. Reporter went overboard being critical of mcgovern just because they did not want to be accused of softpedaling him or his message. It happened with the times coverage of Hillary Clinton in 2016 and its happening with the times coverage of biden today. If you look at the times every day theres a story about something biden is doing wrong. I assume hes going to finish eighth in iowa. I was going to pick up on what connie was saying. When youre out there, when you were out there with the microphone how did you know what to ask . You were not just sticking the microphone in peoples faces. You were one of these people who prompted people like mcgovern to say something, to get some fresh sadr something but it required that you be completely up to speed first thing in the morning so when you came out of the hotel to get in his car in the motorcade if you had an uzi question you are likely to get a news answer and thats what you did. Right . Yes. Thank you for knowing that. The way it was done then is that everybody didnt travel on the ground especially in one giant of 50 or 100 people particularly in general elections after the conventions. Reporters are divided up into shifts, morning, afternoon and evening usually and seven or eight of them will represent all of their colleagues were they cant fit everybody in. I would maybe have that duty every other day or something but you have it 24 hours a day. We are about out of time. We have time for couple questions. I want to ask you karl tim talks about the folly of trying to Cover Campaign from 30000 feet and still a lot of the reporters got on the Mcgovern Campaign because you told me you were going around saying large crowds but there were no polls. Polling was in its infancy. The governor was 20 points up in the field poll. With that is probably losing but he had these enormous crowds everywhere and i got off the plane about a week out to go back to ap headquarters and i was stunned to discover nobody was going to carry anything. You did not really have the same information that everyone has to day. I would say today everything is so vulgar and thats another story but one last quick question. One quick question. What was the best prank because there were some pranks on the bus. Well yes. Maybe you cant tell. One of the things that was different about 1972 was you started to get something that was a common feature of the president ial campaign and thats the arrival of somebody from vanity fair who is gentlemans quarterly or esquire. Those were some kind of magazine big shots. Some signs that come out to the press but there is a big story in the style section this morning at the Washington Post about who is screwing whom out in iowa. I didnt know they did that. They werent doing that in 1972. At me quickly ask you who was the woman who is a nixon spy . Lucy goldberg who was in nixon spy on the zoo playing and later reappeared some years later as a friend of Monica Lewinsky and helped break that story. She was there every day. We thought she was writing a book and we would see her. She had a cigarette holder and a drink more often than not. She turned on the tape recorder and supposedly should she said she was doing a book and she would mumble in this ridiculously detailed way, fiber people here in mcgovern looks tired, ridiculous things. It turns out this was going to haldermans office every night and it didnt come out until the hearings for next year. Anyway. I told one on you already. One of these fancy magazine. Reporter showed up and dressed beautifully sacks at least if not a designer and a handbag that had to have cost for figures. His could not take my eye off of it. The campaign was going to San Francisco that day and by the time we got there we were. Lubricated and not particularly pleased with this bigshot arrival. She was sitting toward the front of the bus, and she put this, i dont know purses. Whatever it was, a spectacular thing in the aisle. In those Days Campaign buses, press buses did not come equipped with restrooms. One of our number had an emergency as we were driving and from the airport. I wont say who and he just couldnt wait any longer. He tried to years of use a beer can and mostly failed and this little review let in San Francisco so you up hills and all that. Do you remember the story . This review let began to make its way down the aisle toward the courts and pretty soon the entire bus is cheering every moment of this. There was this huge cheer when it hit home. Welcome to president ial politics. [laughter] [applause] this is a very hard thing to do. I want to give the audience a chance to ask questions. Remember ask questions dont make a campaign speech. Yes sir. Craig sherman formerly with upi. Back in the days when this book was written the three of you colleagues like walter mears david broder johnny apple were gatekeepers who got to decide in a way who ran for president and if you thought they were serious contender or not. In our last couple of administrations we had a president who only had two Years Experience as a senator and since then we have had a president who has no political experience whatsoever. In the days of lynne cheney with either of those have been taken seriously would they have gotten enough coverage to be elected . Obama and trump, not a problem. Remember when 1972 started to happen for all of this way over the top concentration on muskie everybody covering a campaign had been to the earthquake of 1968 were the same thing it happened also in New Hampshire with james mccarthy. As somebody who went through it there was never, the one thing that i thought was unfortunate looking back is that there was not much attention paid to what really was a historical change and that was the candidacy of surely chisholm. I dont think any of this understood what it big deal that was but remember how big the field was in 1972. There was one debate in New Hampshire. There were five candidates. No, no they had these two tables. They have them stacked up on top of each other somehow at some dinner. This crazy guy who threw the raft on the table who said theres not enough being done about hunger still alive. And its big cause was Public Access to beaches but anyway hes running for president and wilbur mills was running. Anyway they have them stacked up like this and New Hampshire but muskie dominated so much. Before i shut up theres a message behind your question that im not sure i accept. One thing i learned from 1972 is the impact of what we do is almost zero. People have their own ways of figuring out what the hell is going on. We play a role but i think most of us tend to exaggerate it. And. Its true people dont get mentioned you should and im sure everybody who is dropped out of the democratic race so far would feel in some isolated but the truth is it was a fair fight. The mistake you can make is in thinking your impact is colossal. We really dont matter at all. Is a big change and theres a new paradigm now with. , television and Television Network news. If it actually lacks relevance today because of the internet. Information zips through the cloud. A lot of the things that have been written about the stories of all the crooked things he did and all the stuff he did in his people didnt care and they still dont care. It didnt matter that everyone wrote about it and it didnt matter if it was all true. Nixon is an early believer in that and his operation was the first one to be structured that way. They did some of that with television and 68 and in terms of content of scheduling they had down pat. Reagan did it in 84 but in the contest for the nomination i think the experience shows its a freeforall and its a fair fight and frontrunner doesnt mean anything. That word got its comeuppance. When muskie was the frontrunner before mcgovern had announced a year earlier he was going around the country and no one was paying any attention to him and he was six months into the story in the news york times saying mcgovern isnt going anywhere in for some reason he called me up but i dont know why maybe because ive been covering stuff and what should you do about this. Im a. Reporter and its not my job to tell them what to do but the first thing that came into my head is a very simple senator all you have to do is win the New Hampshire primary. He didnt win but he did well enough in the press that he won. It marked another moment in 1972 a turning point. Up until that point there had always been a lot of attention paid to the following word, expectations and when you had a frontrunner there would be a game in the 60s and into 72. How much does he have to win by and whats the expectation and every night in a Campaign Setting Jules Witcover was coming in touch of us would write a song in mocking song about some event or theme in the campaign ended New Hampshire they expect patience were done to the tune of rock of ages. If i remember the lyrics its david broder, right for me, tell me what is victory. [laughter] and the number that the muskie people fastened on was 55 , 55. It was murray carrier and if he doesnt get 55 she said i will eat my hat. It was 47. And mcgovern won with 36 are there still people havent learned but that was the first moment to do dump all over. The story has been written today about the expectation next monday in iowa. Before you forget tim krause said of nixon no president has ever worked so lovingly or painstakingly to emasculate reporters. Oh im sorry. Thats it we can get a word in edgewise here. Diana , how are you . I did have one small advantage and that was that i had covered the governor in south dakota. Fresh out of iowa i was sitting by myself in south dakota and sioux falls. They kept mentioning about this young, rising Young Democratic politician named George Mcgovern. I had never heard of George Mcgovern. He was the debate coach at dakota wesleyan as you know what he was about to run for the house against joe foss the world war ii flying afl commissioner. That was the small advantage that i had. Tim said to me later something i want to talk about what it was like to cover mcgovern in the early days. We never sat and talked. One way that mcgovern did campaign were in sioux falls on the fifth floor of a rundown office in the senate building. The elevators didnt start running until Something Like 8 00. Every morning during the Campaign Many mornings during the campaign George Mcgovern would go up those five floors without an elevator and stop by with a handout that he probably had written and typed himself before going off to a sales meeting or whatever. I had never heard anybody so articulate or moving. The modern, it was illegal to be a democrat in south dakota when mcgovern started in the early 50s as a college guy and he drove himself around in a beatup Station Wagon and built that all by himself. Im going to text gills motors skills and having my question would be come along for the ride or you are barking up the wrong tree. We heard about the importance of staying lubricated as reported in the strikes me to look at the amount of money journalists are willing and able to pay for what they drink and what kind of establishment they drink in. I wonder going from a time when somebody was dressing in expensive attire in a bus would be looked down upon a time where a lot of people are in graduate school to go into journalism and having different kinds of drinks at different kinds of bars. I wonder if anybody has thoughts on the challenge for journalists today that connects with readers when theres a bigger gap between the way they are living their lives. Actually the Mcgovern Campaign did provide the liquor. They were charters. It was before deregulation so everybody wanted to keep their monopoly. Western union, the phone company and my god first thing in the morning. [laughter]. To be noticed during the campaign and over the years they started to switch from but he marries in the morning to mineral water. Eddie got to the mid 80s and the early 90s, and only two or three of the older guys, they were still, they were not come the new breed, they had to work harder. A line that i use use was it was expected to go to the table pick up the checks. I was trained in expense living, do not leave the check on the table. I would reach in and someone would object and reach in and take it. It is only money. And is not mine. [laughter]. Reporter good evening. A near getting dark, several years ago had gone to journalism, it was first involving and what you see is news. What you know his background. When you feel his opinion. With increasing frequency, we see reporters on cnn, emison bc or fox, offering opinions 24 7 is this movie journalism forward. Tom as the husband of a distinguished journalist often appears on television i think actually somewhat of a problem there was some people i would say and certainly one of them who can find themselves through analysis and explanation of what they see is coming, and many others who are expressing points of view. I am amazed to see a reporter from the Associated Press where i once worked, stressing opinions on morning joe, morning after morning. But it seems that like that news organizations like the proneness, that the people have, from this on tv, leads to the websites and clicks on the website mean somebody is paying attention pretty clicks. In the line has gotten very blurred. And i think that is not good. Something that you talk about, the opinion you seem to bend over backwards onto favorite government. It was the First Campaign after the white house with the tax depression. In negativism for example. Do you think that influencer covers and even today, knowing organizations that are going after the press, and as for the New York Times going after joe biden. And Hillary Clinton and even with the coverage now. Carl boy, there are a lot of prominences there pretty connie has more perspective than either of us. What is your sense. Connie i lost you a little bit there. Carl suis two years into the attack. So do they have any effect. Connie honestly i think were just normal people and i think when you are a normal reporter you want to be built want to be fair and we have a personal bias in one direction or another direction, we try very hard to push our personal bias of the way to be fair. So consequently, if we were at the time, appalled with what people have said, i think we would try and to try to be very adept objective. We are all products of our own experience we cant help being slightly subjective. We try not to be. Carl clusters a reportorial fact thats worth putting on the table here. I did not know many nixon or people who really believed all of that malarkey. It was a way of doing politics they discovered could work. And there were times when it was almost a game. After that first speech, will safire and buchanan are still from the grave, bill from the grave, and pass, is still arguing about who wrote it. Lots of negative moon. But there would be games played at night with them to come up with other alliterative phrases. Some of them not principal. They all indulged in the senate transmitted to me that this is more of a game than it is something serious even today, especially otherworldly. Carl but when i was talking about with the times, and he was bending over backwards to show the in the times in this case, not for the democrats and against trump, thats what youd do by being as tough as possible on the other side. And i think that sometimes it carries to the extreme quite frankly. Reporter you mentioned that people dont have direct access that they used to have. They cant just go to the tennis club and have a direct conversation. But alisa political journalists are on the campaign trail with the candidates for now it seems like we have the sand america yuri layer of the curators. And the people are getting new stuff from the people who are in direct contact with the candidates, but through whether its a blog for something that theyre compiling the stories and become that intermediary, and that seems to whether its bloggers, somebody at the newsroom who is pointing the information who are from the people out on the frontlines print were not getting stories directly from the people on the frontlines following the campaign. Carl do you study this reading here is what i would like as a consumer. Take a 24 hour time period, and somehow get it all, stream some events, if one of these, these handful of these blogs. What is the thing that has a circle with a line and it they can only write hundred 50 words in it or something. [laughter]. Oh thats twins are. [laughter]. Do people read that stuff. Well anyway, yes. Get it all. Give me one day in the life of 21st Century Media and tell me what its like. If you learned anything or if it was just a bunch of jibber jabber and heres my picture of mileage or something. Because is so diffuse now. I cant learn very much from the coverage anymore. Can you. Connie im having such a hard time trying to find out the truth. What is accurate, what is true. Tom i have taking two streaming events or getting video so that you can watch a candidate just to find out what they are saying and what is going on. The horse race which is what, three and a delete story. It is now the story and believe me, it still leads to me like 9. It is not have anything to do with educating me about anything going on in the country or whatever. If you get this much in iowa, he translated to New Hampshire and then to nevada. I just want to say shut up. Carl is all built around poles and then fans in every full that you seen from New Hampshire, and nevada, South Carolina and nationally, will be worth list next tuesday after i what votes rated everything that is worth being written about and what was happening in the states, it will change. Carl connie on wholesale journalism today be because in such incredible investigative journalist things are being done. I mean, phenomenal. I think that runs across the board. In the New York Times, Washington Post, but also some of the broadcast networks are doing great investigative journalism. So dont want to jump on the media and a whole so way because i think a lot of people do. But i do have a problem with authority, social media and misinformation biggest disseminated very quickly the nobody checking it rated the oldfashioned way, was that we had editors and producers and so many different layers of people. They were bringing down arthur is making sure that what we reported was accurate. And i was deathly afraid of being fired. Because i did not want, and it was really a question of whether or not i got this right. And i did not have it right, i knew my head would be on the chopping block. But today, it is not because people are not dedicated or whatever but there are certain outlets that allow an into mine and out of mouth or into mind, on the paper and disseminated instantly. And that is where i have a problem. I cannot spare out the truth. I have read all kinds of things to sort of come to my own conclusion as to what might be the truth and probably best is actually to watch it. Whatever it is, whatever is going on mike you watch yourself. And then you come to your own conclusion. Cedric on the democratic side i would say 90 percent of what i know, about the race comes from watching each of them. I tried to do, even now in retirement a couple of events a day. Beginning to end it to just have a sense of what they are like. The used to get from my buddy here. Everything is written and everything is restless and no one is stepping back and saying, this is important or this is not. And you read the post, they have done a wonderful job in the done terrific bunch and every quarter practically the roster world who doesnt work for the times. God knows what will happen to them after the election but in any case, theres 70 stories about 70 people that dont know what where the truth lies. Reportertom there was a beautiful some up so lets just go to the last question. Host someone whos were froreporter d press in Washington Times and then i the other side of the bus in a long shot in the governor feet divine in delaware and all the time until with you guys, so it wasnt very successful i guess great leeway, my question is, in todays world with a focus in the use of fake news, and first how do you think the media are dealing with that and what would you advise the media to do to deal with that. Tom thing we have to do our job frankly, their people in the journalism world who can take on farms and seminars and on tv. The concept but we have got to make sure that we do not fall into the traps and start doing things to cater to that are opposed that. Most people in this room as a good sense of what makes good journalism. And when political candidates their own purposes to what the president has done, you can relate not counter except by doing your job the right way i think. Carl there is a piece of video that might illustrate my point i think it every few weeks or however often it is, that the president goes off to one of these shows. I have been able to find, not cutaways, dont know what you call them. Their pictures of the press and. About one hour before the event. And you see, children and grandchildren arriving there and you see the taunting in the face. And at, it is almost physical. It is always extremely loud. I am struck at the quiet dignity of these people who just go into the pan and do the work and leave. They dont pay any attention to what is happening. It is a nice example of what grace under pressure. Connie think the accusation of thank yous hearts. Enters those of us who believe in the force and believe and in what we are doing and that we pursued a worthy profession and we were after we were trying to right the wrongs of the government or society, social ills, and we considered it an honorable profession. And even though others dont consider us pursuing an honorable profession, think there are plenty of reporters today, who are in still have that mindset. I mindset and credited there is a whole section of people who dont. And they engage in opinion in the engage in biased reporting. But honestly, mild friends, my old colleagues, the people that i knew, were honest people who are just pursuing the truth. Tom just the one thing, shes been very wise and eloquent but i guarantee, if anythin anybody i2 and treated connie the way that some of these fake news criers today, she would have flattened them. [laughter]. [applause]. Tom and do you have any final words. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming. [applause]. Connie tom, god bless you. Tom the bar is open air. So please have a couple of one on ones. [background sounds]. You are watching a special addition a book tv. Airing now during the week, while members of congress are working in the district because of the coronavirus to pandemic internet, look at crime first Joshua Hammer tells of the story of the black market animal smuggling operation and reports on related international and Domestic Trade regulations. Then university of texas journalists Kate Winkler Dawson looks at the life of edward, americas first forensic scientist printed and later jack, former assistant attorney general the george w. Bush administration. He recalls the life of his stepfather who was an associated teamsters leader jimmy hoffa. Enjoy book tv now and over the weekend on cspan2. Youre watching a special edition of the tv, airing now during the week while members of congress are working in their district because of the pandemic. Friday night, afterwards, New York Times magazine contributed paying piggy, sexual culture in young male masculinity. And details time in the trump administration. In later New York Times reporter jennifer steinhauer, chronicles the first year of the largest class of women ever elected to congress. Please enjoy book tv now and also watch over the weekend as he spent two Read Television is change since cspan began the one years ago, but our mission continues. To provide an unfiltered view of government. Already this year we have brought you primary election coverage the pet president ial election process now the federal response to the coronavirus new watch. Ellipsis ms. Public Affairs Programming on television, online, or listen our free radio app rated and bef the National Conversation through cspans daily Washington Journal Program or through our social media feed. Cspan, created by private industry, americans Cable Television company, as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. [background sounds]. Host good evening everyone and welcome, my name is rita. On the trustee of the jewish heritage,us