And then he is that phd in physics to go into finance. And many of this job in finance, he sort of going for walks during the day and abridge the story because its in the book. He talks got longer and longer and he ended up at hunts point. A note that is new york geography is not terribly most of the financial district. It was exposed to the back row of america. This is drug addicts, drug dealers, prostitutes. It is convince him that he needs to figure out what was going on in his back row across the country. Some from maine to bakersfield california, chris traveled the country and talk to people and, again, he was doing the same sort of going the country trip that a lot of people do pretty was visiting the back row, the drug addicts and dealers. Prostitutes, the homeless, the formerly homeless, the veterans, the immigrants, the people who created the immigrants and all that. Then recently, if you follow twitter, youll know that chris has visited the most deplorable group of old witches conservatives. [laughter]. He is here at aei and he visited the prostitutes in the tax collectors, chris is gone for lower visited the tax cutters. But again, i do recommend this book. I want to start by what hit me most in your discussion here was introspection and tunes in with the mindsets. Here we are in aei with almost all the scholars have advanced degrees in here we are in washington dc in the wealthiest arguably the wealthiest region in the country and definitely the most educated region in the country. So i want to start with i am a catholic and normally select the best of the ones that are most directed at the audience. Or the shortcomings. You talk about the immigration by the front row of what you call quote forms of non credentialed meetings other words, people fighting meeting outside of degrees and outside of jobs outside of income and outside of a nice house. And in other things. Can you talk to us about what you found around the country in that regards printed. Chris for small thank you all for coming in thank you for having me. And tim also wrote a book by the way. [laughter]. Should be that. So i guess, my book is political, or social logical. But i sat there is a week, like divide the front row in the micro fruit the bathroom people you will be seen on the streets here. The pictures of people who lived in the rocks. People who live in the north side of milwaukee, portsmouth, pictures of ohio, is not defined by geography, not this early by income although kind of estimate defined by race, but people who dont go to college or if they do they go to state schools or Community College. The conquest of that is my prior life, the ph d and physic i also spent 20 years as a bonded trader. I call that a front row. And as people to look very, come from all over the world. All of the u. S. But they share a common theme in their life. Ellipsis 16 has been through the same institution, harvard princeton yale, postgraduate degrees, internships, may be moving to new york city, may be dc but only certain neighborhoods in new york city and dc. We run the world. We walked the front row and set the rules and make the rules and we run the politics, and the making and the law firms. And we run academies, universities. One of the things we have done is to find a world of very narrowly in her mind. We only look at material things in particular, to get. Much Cultural Capital you get is some show how big arrhythmias. The credentialed economy. The things i have found in my turning his think you will see the pictures are people who find meaning in more traditional ways. Things you dont need a resume for. Very simple place. Where the value of living in the same neighborhood, the value of the friendships you formed in that neighborhood. Always likely think about well it started to hit me, i was interviewing people mostly at mcdonalds. I remember telling somebody bumping up one interview, they been born 20 miles down the road. Good either 68 or 70 years old and lived all their life there. And i said you lived here all your life right need to know. He said i was right down the road. [laughter]. Like he wanted me to get it right. When there was woman in cairo, an africanamerican town in missouri, messenger from there and she said no, from a mile outside of cairo. [laughter]. So Place Matters to people. Theres a lot of value in place. Another thing that matters and that also doesnt necessarily reap wires their credentials as a religious base. And a third is a dangerous one, racial identity. Effectively you can walk, things that give you meaning, give you value, we cant quantify. We cannot measure it, but also i think over time, the front row systems dont help value because we cant measure it. So we just tell people be a widget, go for me to be a move. What is the cost of that, its events. So the way we think about the world is a very narrow framework of only one think mattering is nothing that matters, is a resume, education, and how much money you make. Timothy is immeasurable. That is actually something that i have seen admitted and one economist speaking here, said that when she saw the book the billy, she really didnt like it and none of her friends did because it was appetizing things that were so vague and airy White Community bonds and the they were looking for other ways to measure success or value or anything like that. But as i think it starts a lot of people as arbitrary. Which is to say that you will see this article like in the washington headline, loyalty is known. And people will constantly talk about the accident of where you were born and we can say is unfortunate that it can determine your outcome. The accident of where youre born does not seem like an accident or something that can be swapped out for changing the color of your hair. Seems to actually matter to a lot of people. But in the front row, it seems arbitrary. And clinging to it seems unwise. An efficient and best. Chris so this place and we devalue them because we cant measure them. Begin work quantitative. This way we think about policy printed in the home living thing. But i think back to where i disagree with all of the conservatives of adult like the way we think about the front row free trade is is a tradeoff. Its a positive. There will be winners and losers and we are going to it game over. But we dont know, we cant measure the losses. So the spreadsheet of the spreadsheet losses look like a factory born in milwaukee. But in real life, the loss is a fact regarding milwaukee which destroyed communities, destroyed families which destroyed the kids born out of wedlock. Rings and drugs. But often more than that, it takes away peoples meaning. Like that was their center of the universe to be able to live in milwaukee and stay there. Dad downtown bars. Timothy the rising bread measure is the way to measure the fact of the effects of free trade have not been sort of distributed evenly across the country but have been very uneven and the places you have talked about is not experienced a slight decrease in the equilibrium wage. But when factories shut down, a lot more happened then just less money was flowing in there. Chris exactly. And the induration to the solution was to just move. I comes from the right by the way this whole uhaul thing. So offensive. People dont necessarily want to have the money to move in your asking them to sell it at a low. Timothy so thats the number one question i got in the navy america should these people move. And you spent more time talking to people and some of these towns, you look around and is hard to see. You and i both moved to places where we had the best job opportunities. New york and for me dc and it is hard to say that if you cared about this person was in a town where theres no jobs and drugs are running rampant, its unlikely they can raise her kids safely there. Or did you say to them. Chris personal ive never told anybody not to move. But what i would say to them, im speaking to the policy people who assume that moving is easy. They also said that moving has no cost. References all of the time. Theres this woman in the book was a perfect example, mexicanamerican woman who i bet and mcdonalds in his delay. And she was figure to to the local Community College bypassing the opportunity to go to another school because she was saying there to be her moms translator. Her moms first generation like a lot of older immigrants she is now, this documents for her mother. Why do we think should be think that that is the right decision in my mind. And in, why should we expect people to just be able to tear family bonds is still restless at low prices and also getting back to meaning, those have value to people. They dont require money to have those. Doesnt gifted a birth i did take us away from people is essentially, extraordinary elitist. Timothy so im here and people recognize me know me. And for 20 years ive been bossa nova written a book can help you get these credentials and meaning if youre still in, your known and you have credentials a meeting for having been around for 20 years. One of the words, and to talk about tribalism has become very negative the recent years. We noted means by that then politics is just what i read this, about how kabbalistic the fish for wanting to leave it just caring about them. Then he describes group of friends and how much they were going to loose from brexit, because they were all in his federal constantly traveling to europe and enjoying the food from their leaves describing a tribe. As you described it, you talk about your group and your shared experience. Unpaid have left us with all the same room field. Dedicated to knowledge. Our community was global. So in other words the front row, six try to think that is above tribalism. And it tribalism is actually necessary. Dont know if you agree with this blue think people need to belong to tribes. Chris people need to belong and be a valued member of something larger than themselves. If that is a church group, if that is a law firm, if that is a bowling league. People need to be a valued member. We are the cool kids is how i describe it. We set the rules of what school. When you make people feel they are in a rat race, that is humiliating. The opposite of humiliation is looking for dignity. Dignity is a double edged sword. The search for dignity could be positive. You can fight dignity and creating art, you can find dignity of making a member of your community, raising a family, this also ways we would rather people not find dignity i think part of that is going to the race thing you can find dignity or tribalism and dignity and other forms. Host i think when people are humiliated they search for a way to find the dignity and theres negative consequences of that. I think some of it your sing politically these days, a tribe very much a tribe there are non resume their nontraditional form, come join the election thing and lets have fun. Speech of the argument i make in my book as a trump phenomenon is people seeking to belong. Meaning and dignity are part of it. The framework is belonging to something. My argument is in the suffering parts of america whats lacking is things to belong to. And so i looked at a lot of these places that were suffering and i saw the swingle had pulled down, the factory closed down and you still get the disability or unemployment or whatever that adds up to it does not even come close to adding up to belonging to this workplace, the labor union that shut down. That alienation what it leads to largely is a street gang is isis, white nationalism, sometimes its wearing the red hat that people who dont belong to anything the bitter ironing, i think for a lot of political left and theres a handful of liberal writers have written this, some may sit at that we are more secular country would all get along better because we would not have these religious divisions. When we belong to the church than more people are going to belong to things in one way or another will cause more strife or not lead them towards happiness and the good life. That is my argument out of the way you think about that. So theres variations on the theme. I think both of our books talked about this. Me, less explicitly than you, the loss of the jobs cascaded everything. Their engine im very much on the left on this one. The loss of all these other forms of meaning, the original sense was the lost of the factory which lost ability, all those things you said that were once there to join those started dissipating. I am less comfortable talking out about more cultural issues because its not my strong point is not where i come from. I think the right does have people on the right does have the say this is someone to a agnostic is the loss of faith is huge. Absolutely huge. Think he went to Salt Lake City or brook right . So yes. It didnt make my book but one that was contrary to my thesis was utah. It does not have the levels of despair or the other places have. And has him but it doesnt have them and the reason being the church is there. It provides people with a very central role, provides the classic both regulates and provides people the sense of place. I say this as a leftist agnostic the solution to whatever we have going on in my mind is the fall of the church has been a big loss that many places cup capitalism and respect. As a tugofwar we dont go too far, scurrying as a capitalist your neighbor because youve got those religious rules there. Capitalism without religion is a disaster. Host gerry was a man as he put it did not know his abcs and he said he always felt them, and as he put it its not the way i as a catholic whatever put it. Then i got saved it changed me. I never felt worthy before i got saved. And now i understand i am worthy of the lord. That to me is the most noncredentialed form of meaning. You literally just for being human, become worthy. Our modern culture and economy does not grant that. If you cant read, if you have the wrong views or whatever its hard to find. I want to move on, i will come back to make it uncomfortable for the rights in a little bit. But i want to pick on the left for a little bit. You and i had the same experience of surprisingly being a bit ignored in our books by the left. Specifically, use the phrase of people who were left behind and dignity. There is an interview on fox. Com there is a professor who is arguing something similar to it i would argue are in the box. Com interviewer interjects and says these people have not been left behind, they have chosen not to keep up. Which would have been a shocking thing for summit on the left to say before donald trump existed. So i think something about the white workingclass voting for donald trump especially in the republican primary has created a situation where a lot of people would look at people who are suffering especially if they lost their job to free trade and have sympathy. Its now people saying you are responsible for your own suffering. Which by the way is what you would hear about urban blacks. Speech at the way i frame it i believe i am from the left and one very important way which is if i see a group of people suffering social ills, i will never blame qualities all blame the political structure they associated. So i wont call them lazy or weak or dumb. I wont call them racist. I think you have to look at the political structures people operate into understand their decisions both at the individual level and a group level. The left has always rightfully done that with neighborhoods the right says welfare queens and all those things, laziness, just get a job. Addicted to having kids, violence, crime, the left said got a look at the situation where they find themselves in. They find themselves in a neighborhood secondary and everything lets hold off here and stop calling people sub humans effectively. I would say the left would do the same to workingclass white neighborhoods. In some cases they do but many cases they dont. When they look at the problems in a working class neighborhoods, its addictive just like no these people have privilege started this project in 2011 well before any of the trump stuff happen. It only became political because i was in these towns during the election. I remember being in one West Virginia trailer park more a lot of things were going wrong. The family that had done a lot of wrong in their lives. I remember forgot the context but it basically said something about privilege white class working guy, you have a lot of privilege but he just looked at me, looked around and hes like are you f ing with me. And i said really. [laughter] compared to workingclass kid and black kid in milwaukee, i was aye kid and trailer park has privilege perhaps but hes not being told that hes being told that by a sociology student in cornell on twitter. Its just mindboggling that this is where i will criticize the left of what it goes back to you. I think on the belief on the left is that misunderstanding of how much privilege education provides you. I think that is slightly uncomfortable because it makes people in my party feel a little bit like they have more privilege they want to admit. I want to go further than that we say education, one of the big things it actually means is connection. Which is to say, in college read homer, i read greek, lots of things i absolutely loved. Even so my older brothers, went to a much Better College than i did and maybe he learned calculus or Computer Programming or whatever. What helped him as he went to yale. When he dropped out of Philosophy School he had friends that went to yale that helped him get a job. Education is not just who you meet in college but its also learning the code. Talks about this a little bit how to interact how to speak not to get a neck tattoo. All these things that arent explicitly talk to but you absorb through these education. Education what you learned in the classroom code of behavior and its connection. That is the nature of our privilege. Accepting that is uncomfortable. So where the cool kids . Both culturally and economically. With that comes with any club comes these memberships you dont really know you have. I think the bigger issue, there are two of them. One issue talk about the connections theres an africanamerican gentleman, is interesting in the projects in cleveland who had gotten a full scholarship to vanderbilt, back in the 70s. He came to me he said literally she is a derogatory phrase, my mom was a welfare queen, all those things. Thirty years later looking back at the size of what you think about it . He said i wish someone had told me that going to college wasnt about going to college wasnt about studying is making connections. He didnt use the words he didnt have the capital to know what to do in school when he got there. We got 30 studies. He also had the makeup he had a gap because he had a lesser education to prepare him for this. He spent all this time hitting the books where everybody else was forming friendships. Hes like they all came out of the as i commode ds. [laughter] to me, what is most frustrating about where in education divides people. It really allows, we use it now as a way to silence the voice of with the working class. They dont know the right language to speak. Some of it is political