Transcripts For CSPAN2 A.J. Baime The Arsenal Of Democracy 2

Discussion and theres a lot to do so please stick around. I believe time for questions at the end so please think of some and if anything occurs to you we will give at least we 10 minutes. This will run very quickly because i had a chance to meet a. J. Baime, author of the arsenal of democracy fdr, detroit, and an epic quest to arm an america at war. I had a chance to read it and i recommend it to you. It is a topic that covers politics, business, even some art design, incredible personalities. I learned a lot from reading it. I am a world war ii buff. Do we have any other world war ii buff . I am a history buff for sure. A. J. Baime writing about a subject from the 30s and 40s. How did you do it and what does the young guy like you know about world war ii . It is wonderful to be here. My wife rochelle is here and my son clayton running the arsenal writing the arsenal of democracy fdr, detroit, and an epic quest to arm an america at war. I was born in 1971. My last book took place in the 1960s and a lot of people said what do you know about this . When they ask me a question i always answer i have to work much harder than anyone else who lived through this because i didnt. I have to not just understand the characters and what was happening and why it was happening but had to understand their motivations which meant going through their personal belongings, their papers and correspondence, reading newspapers of the day, not looking for anything but in any way i could get inside the heads of people i was writing about so i could understand the difficult decisions they were making. We were talking earlier that this book is almost a prequel to the book he wrote before which is availableforsale, talking about the thinkable drama on the racing circuit. This was a revelation. I didnt know so much about edsel ford and the relationship between henry ford, his father and edsel ford is one of the main forces of the book. Guest it comes out fathers day. And researching that, there was a character named edsel who was the father of one of my main characters, henry ford the second. I identified with his character who died a tragic death. Something i just loved, he was misunderstood his whole life, a person who was thrust into amazing amount of power and wealth adequate time in our nations history. People who live in detroit, who know the story of a poor family think of edsel as a flawed character, a great pacifist refused to let edsel serve in world war i so when edsel was at a young age, he was humiliated, and all the boys his age going on to fight the war, his life began like that. His whole life was an uphill the only child of henry ford, who was the richest and most powerful and most famous american through the entire first half of that century. To me there was this character, and phil, whose whole life he was trying to create honor for himself. That doesnt happen until final days before he dies, very dramatic, something i identified with and people who live in detroit who know the story are saying to me they are so pleased that advil is getting to do it. It is a great gatsby type story and very interesting. Just for starters, the arsenal of democracy fdr, detroit, and an epic quest to arm an america at war is the title. What does that mean and where does it come from . Historians have not agreed where the term comes from. Some say goes back to Woodrow Wilson during world war i. In this case in my prologue under the 20 ninth 1940, fdr, realizes there is a war going on in europe and we are not going to be able to escape it. It is coming our way and theres nothing we can do about it. He said this is a new kind of war and he figured out something early on. He might have taken a lesson from the nazis but he realized this would be a war fought with mass production. He gave a speech december 20 ninth 1940 and called it the arsenal of democracy fdr, detroit, and an epic quest to arm an america at war fireside chat and the idea was to inspire Free Enterprise and government to join together and create this arsenal with which we were going to fight this war and it was controversial because a lot of people didnt think we would be in this war. A lot of people didnt want to be in this war but he thought it was inevitable. The only way we are going to win is if Free Enterprise put their best judgment aside and created the tanks, airplanes but not just the tanks and airplanes and guns but canteens, jackets, underwear, cigarettes, everything was going to go towards this war and that is what his arsenal was. One thing that comes through in the early part of the book is how strong the forces of isolation were in the Chicago Tribune was among the players of that era without were strongly opposed to any american involvement and the headline on september 1st, 1939, when the nazis invaded poland was europe wills war is on and that very much was a theme not just for the tribune or germanamericans but all the way through most of the country people wanted to stay out, we had a horrible time in the depression and some of the central characters are very much of that thinking starting with henry ford and Charles Lindbergh who plays a big role in that. Lindbergh and henry ford were the most famous antiwar spokespeople of the time and very honored beings very much against us being in this war. Lindbergh was part of an Organization Called America First. As anybody heard of America First . Gerald ford was part of this group, e. E. Cummings and walt disney, that i have to fact check but it was the biggest antiwar group in the country and lindbergh was touring the nation giving speeches saying we have to stay out of this war, if we do it will be the biggest catastrophe in the history of the nation which in a way it was but what i find most interesting, there is a picture of lindbergh testifying before congress in a room more crowded than this in which he said we need to stay out of this war because we cant win. Specifically he was addressing the terminal anu bradford the german look to offer. He said he had seen it firsthand so once the war starts after pearl harbor, moving through lindberghs papers, how he came to join henry ford, they joined together to create the bombers on this book. One of the interesting facets leading up to the war was how the nazis were admired by people in this book, henry ford and lindbergh were honored, can you fill us in on where they were and what was known about the antisemitism . It is because this is such sensitive material to me. I dont think there is any arguing that but when you contextualize, what they were going to do. Why they were making them. Antisemitism was not just in germany. I quote one fact in the book, theres a gallup poll in 1938, 25 of americans thought there would be violence against jews in america. So these figures were not alone. They were speaking with a lot of people felt and they wanted to be spokesperson for this cause. In terms of both these characters received important metal from hitler. And it was 1 billion propaganda and move. And they were alarmed by what was going to happen if they did that, but here these guys were, faces in the newspaper, the Chicago Tribune, hitler was quoted in 1933, saying henry ford, a connection between people that makes them so incredibly controversial but once the door started, it was clear these three gentlemen who received these metals had their heart in the right places, they wanted to win the war. It was illustrated in the book where henry ford and Charles Lindbergh were no fans of president roosevelt. It was a struggle to turn this arsenal of democracy from dormancy and reluctance into something that turned out to be war winning. How did he pull that off . Roosevelt, when we think of it, here is this character who was so beloved and represented americanism all over the world. A lot of people didnt like him and specifically what fdr needed to create the arsenal of democracy the people he needed were the people running the big business, people in charge of the big Assembly Lines. They did not like the way the new deal quote upon their way of doing business. Henry ford first and foremost, henry ford said i dont think government is having enough success running itself. A lot of people felt the way he did. The first thing he had to do when he created this arsenal was find people who were going to help him and that was not an easy task. The first person he called upon was the president of General Motors . Extremely famous at the time, the president of General Motors, the first person who brought him down to washington, we need to take these Assembly Lines and create this arsenal. Host a prominent and interesting character in the book is the be 24 liberator bomber, gigantic plane that at the time it was made with the fastest, most powerful, carried the most bombs, four engine plane, it got off on the wrong foot, those who produced it started from scratch, the story of willow run. Willow run was created literally overnight. Ford tried to create the biggest factory under one roof anywhere in the world and one fascinating fact, if you drive to detroit, you can see it and it is there. And and in an open field, and tried to have the biggest facet, the most effective forage in our arsenal at the time. Make up the most massproduced military aircraft of all time. And we love narrative arc. And everything did go wrong, a lot of diaries worked on, thinking about it in 1941, it was really incredible. The stateoftheart for the aviation industry, it was handmade planes, no one had a system for massproducing a plane. It was in keeping with the state of technology, we could make changes on the next one when it didnt work out. In the case of ford, and a steel, diecast Machine Tools make it, you had to redo the Machine Tools and that was one of the things which what promises did they run into . This was a new airplane, it was built in 1938, and by 1940 the fords were trying to build one in our. It was 6000 pounds fully loaded. Nobody at the time massproduced an airplane, certainly not this size. My favorite part of the book is this guy named harry truman. And at the beginning of the war, couldnt get the president s secretaries to return his phone calls. In the middle of the book, he had a Committee Call the Truman Committee and they come in, said what is going on here . It was the most famous factory in the arsenal, truman goes through the assembly the capacity they have, it is too optimistic. By the time truman becomes president , they achieved their goal, 66,000 at one an hour. It was interesting to think about the problems we had. One of their product is Charles Lindbergh, a great anecdote where they take these big bombers up and can you tell us a little bit about that . Guest you called it the worst piece of aircraft construction i have ever phone and that is a quote. That is 1942 when the first bombers are coming off the assembly line. They had to fix this thing and figure out how to do it. One of my favorite things about lindbergh, theres a lot of interpersonal drama between the characters. Lindberghs vision for me and his diaries wasnt just a way to understand how to make it the way it was supposed to be. Basically he was a window, he had so much to say about henry. Wasnt just the airplane, his vision of these characters in the way he wrote about them. The unsung hero in the book is edsel ford. Getting willow run which was nicknamed willit run . With a questionmark. It was edsel more than anyone else who got it where it needed to be. There were two people, advil and castiron charlie, a hero in detroit, and the ellis island person who came to the country with nothing and ended up with the production genius, a genius engineer. These two people teamed up and new each other all their lives, sorenson with the ford empire very early, 6 years old and 7 years old, the president of Ford Motor Company for half his life in 1919 until he died in 1943 and formed this bond which was incredible. On the family line making things happen, and so was in the Corner Office trying to figure out how to make this whole thing work, not just ford in this country but also in nazi occupied europe. Theres a lot about how edsel how what are we going to do . Not just willow run but how do we get these airplanes out the door . What do we do about nazi occupied territory the building troops and tanks with the nazis. That is a good question. Like many large american companies, ford had operations in germany and france which were appropriated by the nazis turned into tools of the nazi war machine. Very awkward situation for ford. How do you handle that . Part of that relationship happened before the war started for the american so this is a difficult piece, i have to talk about how we word it. In the 1930s General Motors and ford, the donald globalism, the Great Depression 1930s, had to figure out where to put their money, the one place abroad where you can put money where you were assured to turn profits thriving overseas so these executives, charlie sorenson, nazi germany in the 1930s. There is no way these people had crystal balls, they didnt understand what was happening. These american company, tried to get their money out, hitler and his cronies came to these executives. You will build trucks for us and had to decide what to do. When i was writing about these people, what what i do . There was no answer. And millions of dollars pumped into this in for an arms in germany. And then in 1938, they have to understand who hitler was. They were stuck. A full ford in the book, trusted confidents, hes communicating with these people in these letters exist. They figure out what he is going to do. Years after you will see an article in the newspaper where ford and General Motors serving the nazi effort. The Treasury Department sent in investigators and contacted a full fords files and looking into whether he violated the trading with the enemy act. The reason why, he continued to communicate with these people inside nazi occupied territory. He had some permission from the state department. Nevertheless the treasury investigation existing at the national archives, you can go through them, where did this guys allegiance way. The exclusion we follow, these guys are trying to win the war, the nazis were where the ford plants could produce, the airplane engines they could produce. What a position. While all this was going on, edsel was dying of terminal stomach cancer, well before, and producing some of our democracy, when did he find out he was ill. You go to the doctor and ed celebs life was extremely difficult. For such an extra ordinarily wealthy, well known man. All the time he was trying to run this company he was very ill. During the war, his health was really declining, it was so dramatic to portray his character, this was a man because of what happened to him in world war i was not able to serve. He was so envied at the time and how many people name their kids edsel ford in the 1920and 30s. He had extremely difficult life. This is something i cover early in the book. The rise of the airplane was going to be his future. He wanted to get into aviation, he tried with the Great Depression, aviation examines went out the door. As he was dying, the war gave him an opportunity to secure honor by building these airplanes and serving the war effort in serving fdr who he loved, who his father loved. He died in 1943 in may before. He did not live long enough to see his work achieve its goal, the destruction of the third reich. There was another cross for him to bear. Harry bennett, a notorious figure for his role in breaking strikes and being in charge of fords security, the largest private police force in the country. Edsel and bennett didnt get along, did they . In my last book, i wrote about him guy named ferrari, pretty much the perfect character, so fascinating, basically darkness, dark human being and Harry Bennett serves that role in this book. If you come up with a fictional character, a powerful tough guy, gangster type person who would have become henry fords best friend during the Great Depression, Harry Bennett, a fiction writer couldnt come up with this guy. What happened inside the empire, a dark figure who amassed i read the book but i forget. The largest private police force is the service department. Harry bennett became a full fords nemesis as if there were two children in this empire. That is one of the things that serve to kill edsel ford. Host he was a character. Edsel fords children blamed Harry Bennett for edsels death because all the pressure, and he was a second son to henry ford. Some of the tactics he used, this guy, he fought dirty and edsel never got rid of this guy who was running forward in a parallel universe with edsel ford until and beyond edsels death. What happened to Harry Bennett. Henry ford the second, the one of the most powerful chief executives in the country. He was serving in the military, his father died and he came back to dearborn to singularly wrestle this empire away from this shakespearean character in the drama strengths me is amazing. Even after rental died all the newspapers and magazines, this company, this eternal battle in this important, not only the Third Largest military contractor in the country but the most famous of all american companies, he served to usurp it, had never gone to college. He was a boxer in the navy guy and a thug. People like joe lamont who they called legs because he was serial could never. There was another guy called dope king, they were literally murderers, the ones that harry surrounded himself with. They took over the most american of all companies and came this close and one of the climactic things that happened, when i started to write this book, i wrote a story about edsel ford after researching the last book, this happened at the same time as the climactic battle in world war ii. When you put their stories together, it became a rich narrative. Host the turning point of the war, tensions had bubbled to the surface in race and gender. You could tell us about h