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I am pleased to enter nights introduce tonight bigger. She has a joint effort in the Harvard Business school in the general management unit. Rocket is also a Research Fellow at the National Bureau of economic research. Shes been a leading authority in organizational and strategic change for more than 30 years. The business and economic correspondent for the pbs news hour and is a Brady Johnson distinguish petitioner and grand strategy at the Security Studies department at yale university. Many awards include emmys, and global award. Reimagining capitalism in a world on fire. Answering everything happening around us, we need this book now more than ever. Based on rebeccas strenuous research and probably his experience, it shows how we have failed capitalism and what we can do to fix it. Library journal review said henderson convincing arguments will be called to action for Business Leaders and interested readers everywhere. On that, now that the authors tell us more. Rebecca, thank you for joining us tonight. Hi, rebecca. This is my advanced reading copy. I get a lot of books in the mail. This one i read and this is a book i thought wait a second, this is something to be taken seriously. Making the convenient convincing argument. Thank you so much for joining me on this program. I would like to say thank you to everyone who has dialed in. I was hoping when we launched the book to have like an in person event where i would be able to send you off with champagne and a hug. That seems like a distant paradise now. Hopefully everyone on the call as a drink. Thank you for joining me tonight. So summary of my book in ten minutes. No problem, he recovered but okay. It sure took me more than ten minutes to read it. [laughter] so first, why reimagining capitalism . Sometimes people look at me and say why dont we just throw it out the window . When you think about the problems we have and i think covid19 has really shown up in our society dramatically. We are living in a time where capitalism is not working as it should. We have very significant inequality, half the population, 400 away from financial disaster. Covid19 has shown our community does not have enough money to stay at home and stay safe. Does not have healthcare or sick leave, disability insurance. We have people performing socalled essential work but being treated as if they were disposable. Most of the productivity growth over the last 20 years has gone to the top one to 10 of the population. Its not been shared with the majority of our community. Its about creating prosperity for everyone and we havent been doing that. The second problem changed the planet. Climate change potentially catastrophic changes coming soon to a planet near you. We are doing almost nothing. Climate change is already at work. Seen in california and australia, fires. 3500 year floods in a three year period and Climate Change is going to hit most vulnerable first. We need to reimagining capitalism for our only planet. Last problem, we have a political issue. We have so much money and politics for more than 70 of the u. S. Population says the system is bricked and not working for them. 66 of the World Population in capitalism is not working for most. We have capitalism that is not delivering. Should we start out . I dont think so. I think a reformed capitalism is essential. I teach at harvard, i think capitalism is one of the greatest inventions of the human race. Unparalleled source of prosperity and innovation and creativity. We cant throw it out, we dont have any good alternatives that we must rebalance it. We must put capitalism back in balance with a strong society, Strong Civil Society and strong government. If we are to build a Sustainable Society going forward. So how do we do that . One possibility to wait for the kind of massive cultural and Political Movement we need to strengthen our government, reclaim our democracy so we build a sense of ourselves as a community. I think it is soon super important. Youre not going to solve this without appropriate recordation. Without a capable government. I think covid19 shown the rhetoric over the last 20 years that we should drown government in the bathtub. That government is the problem, thats so clearly wrong. The spectacle of our government move so slowly of the pandemic. Against each other or medical equipment, talk about taking the market to seriously. Im a huge fan of free market but thats not a good place to be using it. Need the government to step through, step forward, take charge and take the analysis. We seen the cost of not having a functional government. I am hopeful this cultural and social movement we need will happen and will seek medical change but i suggest the private sector could play a major role in accelerating this shift. I lay out what i hope is a relatively pragmatic road back to how acting alone and together can be powerful allies in driving systemic change, reducing the quality to environmental problems and cleaning up politics. I try for people who are actually doing this its not that i think this is a done de deal, five easy steps to reimagining capitalism, this is tough but i think the course will allow disaster. I think the private sector could be an important ally reimagining capitalism. Select the book in ten minutes. Youve got studies, convince us, ive been reporting on this kind of stuff, goodygoody efforts for as long as i have been a business reporter, a very long time. The response continuing his sounds great, everybody is in favor of this and doing that. Being responsible and so forth but whats in it for the firms . What makes you think the capitalist world, just take america, is going to convince us that they are going to change. Give us examples. Okay so i think its important to think about the case for action if youre a firm to couples. One is the individual case, why should i act . Going to answer that but i want to come back to the question as the collective case for action. I think one way to think about it suppose you and i are the only ceos in the world which would not be great for so many reasons but lets propose we own all the Economic Activity on the planet. I think when you have a Business Case for action, for us, Climate Change would be a serious problem. For us, accelerating inequality would be a serious problem. I think we are beginning to see the recognition amongst the people who do own most of the planet, this is the scary creepy think, you can get 15 people in a room there managing 50 of the worlds financial assets. They are beginning to say Climate Change is a problem, seeing inequality is a problem. So i think we should also talk about the collective to action which is really new and potentially very powerful but having said that, back to me, i am running a firm. Whats the case for action . Let me be running the firm and i am this skeptic as i expect most people who are running firms in this country, its good to be a nice guy and quit but i am responsible for my shareholders, thats what i am doing. Climate change, maybe years. Maybe i will be the ceo anyway but inequality, just take inequality. Whats in it for me . Lets start with inequality. Im going to suggest that there are two ways to run a firm. What we might call a local road, treat people as dispensable units, managed by the numbers, drive them with fear. Im caricaturing but a lot of firms are gone that way. Then theres a high road, that would be Like Southwest Airlines or spanish firm. In a high road system, that means you treat people with dignity and respect. You design a work system in the firm which is about incremental improvements and you have frontline people to generate those kinds of improvements. This system has named many people know called the toyota production system. Its the car industry. The trust of the people on the line managers with the court people on the line. Its half nordstrom became one of the most successful retailers ever. They had a onepage employee handbook and it said, im not going to get it exactly right but welcome to nordstrom, youre going to have a good time. Rule one use your best judgment in all situations. There will be no additional goals. I think classic system. We take care of you and in return from you work hard. Heres what i think is so exciting. If we had this for 100 years, running firms this way is a better way to run the firm but we have no much better statistical evidence that this is the case. What we have now is the way in which running a firm in which people are much more resilient is a better way to run the firm. My first thought to you is, have you considered running a high road employment . Will do just as well. This is such a great idea, how come they are not following it . How come its always southwest . Because doing it requires facing the problem what i call with the butter. Its not that you can just wake up one day and say you know, Southwest Airlines a point. I sent that gm could wake up one day and say should trust our workforce, we should be buddies and working together. Lets do it. General motors tried that. Horrible finding noise. Doesnt work. In order to build this model, you need two things. The ceo and senior team willing to do the emotional work. To trust that people on the floor have good ideas, are worth treating as human beings and not every team leader has those kinds of skills but thats not enough. The second thing is actually build the trust and the way of working so you can put in place the system. Its a transition. The people who get ceo of american, author, i dont know them but do they have those qualities . Do they have the qualities and motivation the opposite, getting to the top of the firm . Of course some are promoted because there ruthless pastors but they know they way through, i understand that but not all. One of the striking things thats happening is emergence of groups with names like business for a better world and higher inpatient leadership. Even the ce dp which is to be the central. What i think has happened, the reason i am optimistic is for 30 years, weve had dominant ideology that real managers managed by the numbers, its all about me right now. Thats what makes good management. This is my entire business reporting career which is what i was teaching, maximizing shareholders. And where has that brought us . A bunch of people are very rich and the rest of society is full of anger into something. It is not working. So one of the reasons i wrote this book is to give Business Leaders all the way up and down the hierarchy who have known for years that this is a crazy way to manage. Want to manage in a different way. I think we are seeing investors shifting from managers shifting, the ceo of aetna, incredibly successful ceo leadership of one of the Largest Companies in the country, cap there and looked around and decided he wanted to do Something Different because it wasnt working. Health Insurance Industry wasnt working. He was smart enough to see that. He discovered, because he was on the social media seats, he had a bunch of people working for him who are working at minimum wage. We are often working toward jobs, they were on medicaid. He found out these are the people answering the phones. Here was the Health Insurance company, there answering phones and were not paid enough to have a decent life. He went to his Management Team and said, how many do i have on minimum wage . What would it take to move them up . They said because its so deeply interested, they said they are paying a living wage, why do we need to pay for . He said, because a, this is unconscionable and be, there answering the phone and if we were taking care of them, they would do a better job. You know how much it cost to bring 12 of his workforce up from minimum wage to a decent wage . Get reasonable healthcare that aetna was selling when he announced that, people cried. It cost him 20 million. The profit that your was three or 4 billion. He believes that increased productivity and creativity but it it wake the rest of the firm. During the right thing. It is an opportunity to change the firm. Anyway. Good example, is an extraordinary person. The last thing you would ever say, although he was the ceo when aetna sold the company. Another example. About five years ago, i ceo i know while called me up. He said hello and i said hello. How are you . He said im doing okay but you think sustainability is just a motive and i sent yeah, i know how you think. He said you know my problem . My problem is everyone want to hire its important. Would you come and talk to us about the stuff . So i came in talk to him and i showed him the research and talked about how under leadership of an extraordinary person, an amazing man, you either went from being a boring Consumer Company that sells toothpaste to one of the ten most desirable places to work on the planet. Thats straight to the bottom line. We could talk about the fact that the focus is twice as fast as the rest of the fact that everyone else is think that but backed my process ceo. This is a guy who had a background in investment banking. Heres all about shareholder probably is. Change is company, talked about mike too, so smart that, this sounds as if i know what im talking about but lets suppose i do. Let me try this. You want me to talk about values and purpose . Is in the business was providing good but he never talked about it. He was always talking about increasing shareholder value. He started to use it to recruit. He started to look for how you would run the business different if you thought about it that way. The company has been immensely successful. Its a great magnet for talent and hes come to believe it. This is what blows me away. After five years of experimenting with this new way of talking, now hes all about heres what we do, create value for all stakeholders. Of course i would turn money to my shareholders it is about bottom line. One more thing. The ceos i know who do this, they are not about its not just ceos. We can talk about people much lower down. About love one another right now, its about holding, inherently the need to focus on the bottom line and the need to manage in this different way. People get that right, outperformed, i really think the upper from. One of the things in your book, the punchline there, the moral of the story was, as you alluded to a few moments ago not just a particular work but consumers care about these values now and one of the pressures you see that might change the world so it reimagines is consumers, all of us are able in our own ways to begin to put pressure on companies that then respond in the ways that you think are better for all. You are exactly right. Without Research Suggesting consumers would not pay more sustainable product. The exception of some consumers, economic women drive from cambridge, most people would pay more. What we are seeing is that people will shift. If you offer products of the same quality and give them what they want and by the way, people will shift their behavior. Here is what i think about this whole issue. I think the world is facing a kodak moment. I was a professor for 20 years, i studied firms that would not change including kodak. You know what i would say . The world might be changing but maybe not. If it is changing from a we are not going to make any money and if we are going to make money during the new thing, and i spent a year trying to convince apple to be taken seriously. When i think about this moment now, we sort of know we need to change. We know what we are doing is working. Ten years ago, when i started teaching, i had 28 students in the class now we have 300 and they asked me to take these on leadership in government. Because everybody knows. What we are feeling is to really important things. One, the world is changing. Look at elon musk. He moved into electric vehicles way ahead of the curve. He really pushed and took the technology down the learning curve. Now the industry is changing because everyone can see it coming, they can see thats what consumers are wanting. Consumers are shifting. I understand why your are cynical. All this high variance like we should just do good in fact good. We havent even got to the second part of my book which is about of course, even if firms do all this, its not enough to drive change. Theres lots of moving parts here. Not a done deal but maybe, just maybe this is the moment. I keep wanting you to make the convenient convincing arguments. Mark there was a man who was a relatively low cover guy inside, was given this responsibility. Commodity market, not going anywhere. What you do . He went to kenya and started talking to the people and he learned two things. First, conventional ways of growing tea met in 20 or 30 years, there might not be t. People were dumping too much fertilizing on the ground, trying Climate Change was driving higher and higher up. Theres the going to be no more mountain to grow on. Living working conditions for those picking were awful. Inadequate healthcare, horrible stories. Growing tea eventually was a disaster. Second thing, there was another way. Can you escape, a big demonstration from if they were growing tea in a different way. Nearly 50 higher than conventional t investment they could pay their employees a decent wage and give them healthcare and take care of them. So michelle went inside we should rebrand lipton as sustainable t. It will cost 15, 20 more to pay for people to go sustainable teeth but its a good idea. Like down until it goes away. Raising the cost of your key commodity, this is the chief business and you are proposing to raise the price by quite significantly. By the way, consumers wont pay anymore because they wont pay for green products. So go away and he kept pressing. This is what i think is important, it is the kodak moment. If you have to have drive and the vision, and it wasnt just him, he wasnt the ceo, he pulled together a team from across the business and said how do you do this . They came up with the business plan, which was an exciting mix of rolling this out so all of holders across kenya would be trained to grow to this way and it would be more productive. They would have higher yields and thats why they want to do it. Plus they would develop a branding campaign so people could switch. In australia i think 1020 which is huge. That sounds like nothing but you know this, from commodity products highly contested space, that is amazing. My calculations suggest this. The campaign in england, they rolled out, from reading your book, they rolled out this campaign that lipton tea, it was now the sustainable teeth. The big guy and they ran that on television in england and thats presumably what gave the sales the door 3 . Its not called lipton in the uk, i think it is tips, you can look up about the talking monk monkey, talking to his friend out, to your best when you put this on. It was a huge success and the secret was just as good a product but you could make people feel good by buying this and it was doing some good. It was exciting as every other major teeth brand followed. They moved the whole industry. Its not perfect but teeth growing is much better than it was before this campaign. I also noticed in the book that they never did that in America Lipton tea. They didnt do it in the first couple of years, theyve done it since. I believe so. I should check for sure. My understanding is yes but i need to check. I was thinking yeah right, you can pull that off maybe in australia nor United Kingdom but can you really do it in america . We go to 1000 and get the people watching this, hundreds and hundreds of them. We are exposed to paying extra for the fair trade of commodity or whatever but this has got to be more in cambridge. Thats why i gave you the specifics about major brands that theyve moved this. They are growing significantly faster than conventional brands. These are brands that are across the world. One of the interesting things, when you as people in the developing world, if they care about sustainability and sustainable products, they say yes at higher rates than even europeans. This is a way to reinforce brands and market position in rapidly growing markets like india or south america. The data is getting stronger and stronger. People were paid more except People Like Us in cambridge but nearly everyone or significant fraction of people switch. Keep using the phrase kodak moment and im thinking this is a covid19 moment. The question i think its a little early in this conversation to bring this up but it must be what everybody is thinking about in the back of their mind. Is this a moment now in which what you are hoping happens in promoting, is more likely to take place because of whats happening or less likely to take place . I can only imagine, i am playing cynic but its not taking it. I can imagine that the world moves back onto itself or people become more oriented towards taking care of me and mine, maximizing my own shareholder value, if you will and i dont care about the people in kenya. I want them coming to america but i dont care about what happens, ive got enough problems of my own. Isnt that an entirely possible outcome of the covid19 moment . Of course it is entirely possible. We have no idea, no way of knowing whats actually going to happen but let me try to persuade you that it might go better than you think. So first, ive been talking about the idea or two, three, four, five years. Up until six months ago, two parts of the conversation were tricky. One more people didnt want to talk about inequality. They would say government job, not my problem. That has really shifted. When i talk to groups of Business People now, think no longer say fix it or i dont care. Inequality is much more visible than it was. Are they scared of uprising or of the people who dont have enough to buy their products or both . I think there are three things. One, theyre kind of scared of an uprising but i dont think thats crazy. When i think of business groups, if you let this situation continue, theres a real risk society will tip into bright populism are locked and you wont like it either. In the book i talk about extraction. A small group of which people control money and power. We know what that looks like. Its not good for Free Enterprise if thats what you value, he would need to care about this. Two years ago, people would look at me as though i were loony. Thats no longer the case. I was before covid19. People are going inequality is driving significant instability in the political system. That conversation has really moved and the other thing that has changed his unwillingness to talk about the political system role of government in sustaining a genuine free capitalism. I have trouble raising that conversation and mixed group of people because it was like politics, we dont want to talk about politics. Its not what i do. For now people are really curious. When i say i think we have a political problem i think its a problem for business and i think there ways to solve it from a very tricky, very difficult, we do want is this running our politics. I talk about improving civics rather than politics. People are not getting on it. This is mixed groups of older Business People. Then i talk to younger people when i talk to people in their 20s or 30s, students at hbs, just yesterday i was on a webinar. Today i did another. They see whats happening. They see the difficulty here and this is fundamentally connected if we become convinced everybody else will move, then we can solve it. Ali for it also, more worried than they were that people who have lost their jobs simply wont be able to buy their product or service . Absolutely. They can see that. If we live the unemployment, that is horrible for consumption. A lot of ceos are worried that people are going to fall into depression or addiction or despair. Youre going to think i am a hopeless romantic. I like to think of myself as a pragmatic romantic. I am a helpful romantic. I think ceos have, so many of us have seen what its like on the bottom. It was so easy to get on and off the jets from inandout of the window of the conference room. If youre working like crazy, you think you deserve what you are making because youre giving your whole life to this and making tough decisions. There are certain ones at their own element. Exactly. A covid19 has really done show us we are dependent on people who werent paying attention to before. And how difficult that is and its not, heres the other thing i think it has shown us from its not messy. Its easy to say if only you work harder, he would have been okay i think really people are more open to a structural conversation that no, its only certain zip codes. How come the richest country on the planet, that sumter. Its an element of becoming more aware as well as knowing to buy our products and no one to hire. You talk to a lot of different people including ceos, other substantially more marks, a terrific ceo of ende who raised wages people on the phone for, exercise classes and for people to get more healthy and whole bunch of stuff but are there actually more, do you see it or you just want to see that or maybe because of the people who come . I have a horrible selection problem. In my office, people who agree with me. I will tell you my leading indicator. At hbs, i teach in the executive program. These are not sustainability programs, these are management problems were people come back to get tuned up. I started teaching in these programs maybe five years ago. Before that, i was teaching innovation. If you get scored zero to ten, i was getting my content. Five years ago, i start teaching sustainability and we have a doctoral problem we need to change. This is humiliating. Deeply humiliating. Ive been teaching 25 years and im getting threes. Nobody gets threes. What happens, whats happened is my waiting steadily creeped up. I promise and drink the same things. Same british accent, same handwaving. But my ratings have picked up. Heres the thing that nailed it for me. I gave a talk to a mixed group older Business Owners and they are during the classic cynical thing, leaning back, theyre not so sure, what are you talking about . I say its a huge issue. Finally i say, what do your kids say about this . They all flight up. They stop talking about their they Start Talking about their children and how their children insist that they run in a different way. I got nine out of ten in that program, i was the most highly rated faculty member. Thats an excellent metric by the way. Somebody cap them. I know what youre talking about. Got 12 questions here. Im just going to shoot them either. The book started to become part of the course reimagining capitalism or already is . It sort of already is. The chapters of the book, technical hbs. The students, teaching on inequality in business and institution and purpose so that was how i did it early in the chapter. Not only what they week helping the economy but they were also basically get the business, or the essence of it. Thats exactly what i tried to do with this course. I tried to give the reader experience of being a student and i credit for people like you because my students are totally as cynical as you are. They want to believe this could help reimagining capitalism but i dont really know. The book is written from the same perspective and tries to get the experience of students, await, this might work. Not for sure but it might. So i tried to capture that in the book. Theres two extremely good reasons. I love it when people fight the book. Reading it is not actually mandatory. [laughter] people read the book and in this environment, they buy it. Anyway. Big businesses especially in the u. S. , grady possibility for causing the problem. It comes to like the system of capitalism versus small business. Yes. Is that it . [laughter] yes for a couple of reasons. One is that its that big businesses pumping money into politics. Every firm has the duty to maximize shareholder value but one of the best ways is to get the politicians to rewrite the roles in your own favor. If you are a fossil fuel company and you can pump sufficient money into politics, that you stop the chances of common regulation in their tracks, its a fabulous way to make money. My product to compete parts of an example of disney in the book which lobbies for copyright Term Extension which an economist said no social values whatsoever, straight transfer of money disney. Very efficient use of funds. Im pretty sure thats not what he had in mind but the Big Companies have been setting the pace. Each individual company is rational to do that. If youre competitive, you have to play the game. Its right Big Companies need to come together and say its just rank the whole system. We all have to step back. We have to root for the kids. Yes. You know how it is. Absolutely. Im not being skeptical about kids or my kids grandkids but here somebody asking a question of what our thinking, im sorry, ill do it in the right tone. Im sorry, is elon musk an example of reimagining capitalism for good . [laughter] elon musk is complicated. Elon musk does not run a High Performance system in his factories despite a lot of people trying to tell him he should. Its one of the reasons had trouble with his production system. Elon musk is a good example of how having a vision of where the technology might go and how it might make a difference in the world is investing in that vision can drive the change. There are such people. One of the things about elon musk, i dont know if you really believe what hes believe and hes convinced of is a fact, a great deal of money and essentially by some measures, hes personally responsible for cutting prices of batteries in half which is amazing. Not holding him like we should all be like elon musk. Hes the answer to the kodak moment. Exactly. I think i can get the whole cynical tone of these. The coke brothers are going to help us find the change. So this is a super important question. I think about this in two ways. Some Energy Companies are helping. A big totality energy company, they were investing in a renewable one a week. A spanish electric utility in middle of a pandemic that they are continuing to move forward on their strategy. Duke energy, a neutral goal by 2050, utility and one of the most conservative areas of the u. S. So i think it is super important to differentiate between those firms that get the kodak moment and fossil fuel companies do get that. The people who are more stuck than kodak was. They are a huge problem. One of my hopes in writing this book was to try and open up distance between these different kinds of companies because you are right, the coke brothers are not going to start singing from my hymnbook but one of the problems weve had over the last 20 years is the kind of obsession with shareholder value at any cost, i dont have any responsibility for the society. Its become an ideology we havent challenged it. That has enabled some of these badly behaving firms to just hey, i am maximizing shareholder values. One thing im hoping to do is open some distance between those kinds of firms and more progressive firms. Its not okay. Now what would say in public hey of course i am into childhood labor. Im maximizing shareholder value. No one would say that in public. One of the changes we need to try is known to pay in public apartheid by congress and invest in, even though i know crime is happening. I should be an unacceptable thing to say. I want to get to as many questions as we can. What are your suggestions working well for the formerly employed, more workers employed through contracting, subcontracting and they are not classified as employees must the gig economy as well as others. How can we extend the principles of sustainable and equitable capitalism beyond the boundaries of the firm . Including those pushed in the margins. We must change the rules. Labor and we must find a way to enable a collective one for employees. The strongest findings in research is that as unions get weaker and weaker, inequality creeps up. I know brief for every union. Union can be just as problematic as firms but some kind of organized voice for employees that can negotiate with large firms is going to be critical and that will require both social and political change. Weve seen in the last 20, 30 years, systematic attacks on unions, making it harder and harder. We need things like minimum wage, labor which is somewhere between 1099 and w2 from big state is working and you can have a job but its not a real job. How do you think about that . We need to have a real political conversation about how to manage those kinds of jobs so they work for the people who have them. Does everything right on 2020 . Is are all proposals that would be suitable for the democratic form and surely not part of these republican or Donald Trump Inauguration platform. What im saying is not. Se incompatible what we might call republicanism. Im a free market economists who wants strong regulation of the three sort remains unfair and everybody has the opportunity to apply. Think that contradicts classical republicanism. Republican party does not seem interested in these. So do i think 2020 is critical . Of course i do. Should if youre going to ask me whats the single thing we should be doing . Voting and being politically active. I say to Business People not that they should go out and be democratic but they should enter those are free. Thats really important. Work in Small Businesses to welcome a Corporate Giants to reimagining . They have the agility and nimbleness to try new things. Business models that are easier and small firms taking risks, this is my 20 years as professor of management. Ive learned entrepreneurs are super important in getting big firms to do anything. They have this amazing advanta advantage, no money. The large firms are sitting in all this cash so digital photography is coming back, weve got a great, done all the patents. We will have a business model. Its a huge disadvantage to be part of a Big Organization so a small firm can find opportunities and in doing so, can drive change in the whole industry and i want to tell a story im going to walk myself back. How can reimagining capitalism be focused on elevating stakeholder responsible versus shareholder response ability and set up businesses using reimagining capitalism as a marketing gimmick, brainwashing. People sometimes ask me, how can you tell a difference between a firm just doing a bunch of brainwashing and using the words . I think environmental social metrics would be potentially super helpful. I think rewiring finance so that it is if focused on sustainable capitalism is a key part of making this transition stick. As long as they just want Quarterly Results right now. There is no way of focusing on the common good we are in trouble. We are in trouble. Are the most powerful corporations going to go with the power. Some of the best Leadership Qualities are coming from essential workers. What is that mean for capitals. See mac. Thats two separate questions the big corporations are the ever going to relinquish their power. When i was trying to get the book published i was talking to a very wellknown new york publisher and he said do you read the papers. So let me tell you what i think will happen. What i hope will happen. I hope that some a fraction will see there is a Business Case for themselves and start moving. And as a move they will see the cost of firm who are not making change getting greater and greater. They will start to push places like the Business Roundtable for at advocating and well all the businesses say you are right we should get money out of politics we should change everything unless and until the cost of not doing becomes too great. I talk in my book about moments where it looked as if it was about to fracture. We would have part of the business willing to step forward and say i think that is how this might work. I hope the private sector is smart enough to not wait until things are completely falling apart. There is a very eminent economist. He said something very provocative. What they said that no one should say seems to be set out light almost every night. With the child labor and things like that. If people are not afraid to say that. Of course i do. You ask me if the lecture 2020 was important i said yes. I said we need to change the narrative. I think part of what is happening is that the people at the bottom have for too long said the elites do nothing for me. We did nothing. You are the economist, you know that the macroeconomists have global welfare is great. It took a billion people out of poverty in china. And elsewhere in asia and we thought yes there would be transition cost. And those transition costs turn out to be suicides, debts, despair anger rage we need to find a way to address these needs in ways is that people dont look for shortterm feelgood solutions. I continue to believe that there are enough people in this country who could see what is happening and want to try another way. Another book you should buy is angus eaton. In the depths of despair. One more question. I knew we were running out of time. How can cases make a corona remembrance part of them doing well and doing good. How could this work to help them change. One day per month without traveling or working from home. Any ideas of how this could work. I love that. All my career telling them and focusing on what things look like today. The secret to longterm Growth Growth is to understand the world might change. With covid19 it changed like that they are doing better financially certainly thats my sense. That could go right into the Strategic Planning process about remember something bad might happen like that its plan for it. That is how we need to change. Something bad might happen. They are interested. This is a sandstorm. She is very affectionate and she has not been paid. Ticket back audrey. Thank you so much for attending i can see how you would be the highest rated professor. Thank you again for coming and having a conversation. Thank you for tuning in and showing up for authors and publishers and the incredible staff at harvard book store. We appreciate you now and always think you and we hope to see you again soon. Have a good night everybody. Here is a look at some Publishing Industry news the president s daughter. This follows their 2018 release the president is missing. That sold 3. 2 million copies. The Public Library turned 125 years last week in cambridge massachusetts. As bookstore of the year. The 16 euro store isyearold store is co owned by dena mardell. Who bought it in 2013. And decided to sell half of it. Book sales they remain down 8 . The bronx book festival will take place online. From june 24 to the 26th. Book tv will continue to bring new programs and publishing news and you can also watch all of our archive programs at any time at book tv. Org. Nonfiction authors and books every weekend. A television for serious readers. Here is some programs to watch out for this week such as david brooks westmore and Martha Stewart to give virtual addresses to the graduate class of 2020. The National Senior writers provided the thoughts on the role that sports play in american society. And evolutionary biologist. Looks at dna from prehistoric fossils. Or visit books tv. Org. My name is kaylee martin. Thank you for joining us today
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