Angela dale of davis, klein and so many others. We need bold radical ideas right now and it is critical we support independent publishers in bookstores you can do this in three ways. One, by buying books from haymarket. Two,. Joining haymarket book club. And three if you are in a position to make a donation, no matter how small the event will though be a cart on screen on how to do this and folks posting that information in the youtube chat as well. This video will be recorded in shade after words on the haymarket Youtube Channel like and share this video with as many people as possible and please consider following haymarket on their social media channel and signing up for the newsletter. Haymarket has more important lifestream events lined up we hope you can join us on may 19, abolished ice is not a slogan immigrant justice in the age of coronavirus with John Washington among other great events you can find these and other haymarket events at haymarket book Youtube Channel. A little bit more housekeeping request, with salmon people joining this call we may need your forbearance if we have any technical issues. If your stream gets choppy it might help to get reduce your image quality folks will give instruction in the chat. If the youtube feed is interrupted for any reason you may need to navigate back to the Youtube Haymarket book cajun hit resume in case of interruption. This video will be recorded and shared after words, we will have time for q a scoop is great on the q a and i will answer any questions you got as well. So please post your questions on the live video feed wherever you are watching it. Thats on the haymarket Youtuber Facebook just comment on the stream, on twitter post a reaction directly on the video, and hate weve got haymarket books with got up live right now on twitter, i am retreating it right now so people can jump on because i like that and now it is my pleasure to bring and, i call him the coal train of the sports page. Ive been calling him a coal train of the sports page for over ten years, i tried to make it catch on is a thing because when i used to read scoop on subway ready my slam magazine, ive called and the culturing of the sports page before i even knew that he was a flesh and blood person and not just a figure behind these terrific articles. He is a National Senior writer for espn, hes covered issues of race, culture and sports for various publications over 25 years former executive editor of slam magazine, former publisher of the agenda and author of this book, which i absolutely love it is called the game is not a game. The power for politics and American Sports i cant recommend it highly enough. His name is scoop jackson. Scoop perry doing sir . Guest i am good my man i appreciate this this is an honor if anybody knows how far we go back and how much love i think weve got for one another, we are our brothers from other mothers. This is big for me so i appreciate it. Thanks for so ive got to show everybody my hat and i want you to show everybody and explain the poster behind you. First this hat of minor got to show people this. This is from another haymarket author, from the 68 olympics but he gave me this hat he has the olympic colors at the shadow in there and look at this cool part. Flip it up. The artwork of john carlos, tommy smith and the australian runner peter norman. Just showing off my hat for everybody. Guest behind me is a portrait of my office of ali that i convinced to do for me of a long alis passing. Actually its a post visit white backdrop because putting on aye wall but he surprised me when he sent it to me is a piece we did i did on sportscenter about a lien honorarium of him and his legacy. He took the script put in the backdrop that means a lot to me. The centerpiece in my office in chicago. Looks similar to this but first i want to introduce you to around the country that may not necessarily know about you and your background. I find absently fascinating. Can you tell folks about how you came up . About your parents there politics their commitment and how that translate into your life customer. My mother and father were both members of the black Panther Party. My father probably more and because he was a newspaper journalist who the first black newspaper reporter in chicago, one of the first ten in the country. My mother was a social worker. She was also a public activist. Silt back in the day in the 60s i was born in 63, theyre both contributing members to the party. I was raised under that. I was raised under that mentality. Kind of came with it from everything i have done its kind of been my foundation. Not that so the Panther Party but that mode of thinking of black selfesteem. And not only that, i live in an area with south shore chicago. My wife and i weve been together for 26 years, married longer than that together. With never left south shore. As for the mosque where islam is. I came up like blocks away with my mother and father not necessarily claiming any certain religion, not only growing up in a household is rooted in black panther ideology, we grew up from his religious standpoint of following the word not as fairly religiously but culturally down the street. The roots of black empowerment black entrepreneurship, do for yourself or die a slave, that mentality that exists to my career to find a way to navigate using that is not necessarily a lead but does not make any sense at all. Anybody reads this book will see it. Go through the idea not just black pride but black empowerment. And using sports as a platform is an antiracist platform. As it should be given the facts without black bodies you dont have this multibilliondollar athletic industrial complex. We need to be reminded that more than we are. Think were in a situation right now my thing as a writer you look at it through that prism. I think sometimes we get away from that because the power of black athletes in america has risen to a level where we almost forget that as powerful as black athletes have come collectively they still dont hold the power. With me, i look at the cultural and business side not just the performance i but the cultural and business side of sports what does a half, there is a prism that lends itself youre always distinctively understand race plays in that. Id tried to consolidate that prism in the 13 chapters. And you do it which is so impressive. When you say that about this appearance of power without the actuality of power, really does make me think about some of the news today but the National Football league. Theyre going to have a big three hour special on espn where they can unveil the schedule, the nfl is talking if the coronavirus is just a distraction or dust on their shoulder. Theyre going. My head this fall with games this fall. It makes me think about the lack of power of the black athlete in this particular scenario. Typical career only last three years, contracts are not guaranteed, and nfl ownership, they need these games played to get billions of dollars in broadcast funds. The athletes themselves are in a position where frankly a lot of American Workers are in this position outwards like play or go home, work or go home. inward for lease. Yeah, right. On a temporary basis. So i see that and i see the importance for what you bring to double to be part of the sports dialogue. Its interesting you say the way you view that and it made you look at that dynamic as far as black players and i immediately thought about the lack of black executives. I put the players aside. Theres nobody in the nfl in position to even further this conversation and say, hey, lets not do this because of this. And i wasnt even think of the ownership situation because there are no black owners but just from the executive standpoint, somebody to use a proverbial term with a seat at the table, and not serving the table. Actually sit down as an equal or partner or a voice, or voices, to say to the the nfl owners and the commissioner and all the other executives, in that business mode or in a Business Model we call the nfl, you know what . We need to at least think about this because this is how its going to effect this. Can we rethink this . Can we not treat this virus as an aside . Right. Maybe you about somebody in the room looking for the societal effect. Or the societal role it will play in others making decisions. Not just the nfl putting out a schedule. Its the ill pact the nfl has and how people connect with that and react to what the nfl does. Right. Without having any executives or anybody of power, real true executive power within the nfl think tank to further that discussion or push that agenda, elite to the table, so there may she hesitancy in putting out a schedule or moving forward they way theyre going to move forward. It would be good. My mind went straight to the fact we have no black executives or executives of color who are connected to the situation were in a much different way than rich, white men who to at least make them think about Something Differently. What youre saying strikes to the heart of win and how sports will reopen because this president put together his reopen sports committee, and his committee is it would be shocking we havent been living through this for four years but its all the male sports commissioners are for the mens sports and its a group of owners, like this buddies, jury jones, owner of the cowboys, report, open enore. The patriots, mark cukan, owner of the mavericks. Its a committee out reopening ports and theres Health Experts on it no black people on it no women on it. Given how diverse the field of play is, you actually have to go consciously make that effort to create something that looks like a country club. How sports are going to reopen. Thought this whole thing, this is not just specifically directed at sports. Just in general, in looking at the people in control and making decisions of what we do as a nation, as a black person out there, man, this is a bad time not to trust white people. Because im serious. If you look at the governors, look at the people in administration and the white house, if you look at the scientists, man, you know what im saying, if you are black conspiracy theorist or minority who doesnt trust white males . This is a bad time not to trust them, man, because everything thats happened is in heir hands. Everything. Its something, though. Any small d democracy has to be built on a sense of trust and accountable,. Exactly. And to have an absence of trust and accountability, which we do not have in this country, is trust or accountability, makes a time like now all the more dangerous and part of the explanation for why this country is in the place its. In before we go on that tangent, im so sorry. I got off topic. I want to ask you specific we call this from ethreat lebron, the along road to freedom and i want to get into some history a little bit, and wanted to know, when you were first conscious of the person behind you, muhammad ali, and what his influence meant to you. Really day one. I was born in 1963, so i explained my parents, affiliation with the black social movement, black Panther Party and operation push and operation bread basket with Jesse Jackson and he importance of king and the sports connection, john and tom and the olympics and the whole movement that was going on within our society. Ali, i like to say i cant remember a time ever not having that mans name, his presence, and his practice, being a part of my life and being at the forefront of our lives of an example of what black pride exemplified, and more importantly, the way you should feel about yourself. I he never forget the first column i rote for espn i cant remember the exact line but i nut three muhammad ali is more important than Jackie Robinson and a lot of people didnt get. That Jackie Robinson did break a color barrier and opened up the doors for black individuals to just become a part of different facets of society, not just sports, but in business and in all of the walks of life but Something Different about someone who makes an entire race feel about themselves. To me that goes much further than being able to almost be accepted by somebody else. You dont need somebodys approval to feel a certain way about yourself, and ali made us feel a way about ourselves that no other athlete or nobody on that type of global stage has ever done before. So, once again me coming up blocks away from the mosque, and my parents being who they were and black society being what it was, for the most part, ali was he had almost religious, and i really theres no way i can pin point it without it. What year did he fight liston . 1964. Right, of 64. I was born in 63. Im very vaguely i dont even remember cassius clay. Cassius clay was foreign to me. A year after i was born, less than a year every was born, he is muhammad ali, and a small quoteunquote church in that was down the street from where i was living became the center of a global religion. I was at the foot of all of that happening, from one years old. So, to answer your question, theres never been a time in my life where i can even go back to thinking where he wasnt he didnt play a role. So, ali he sets down a marker that says if you have to be about something more than sports, and if you got if you have platform you have toite for something bigger than sports. Do you see people like lebron james lets go suspect toy to lebron. Do you see lebron being as a part of that tradition or is lebron part of Something Else . Part of what ali built or does he build his own thing . Where do youll see lebron in thats kinnum. I think lebron has bit his own thing, i think lebron has used he used the context of the culture were in to specifically reach audiences and make moves and send messages that wouldnt have worked 50 years ago because of various reasons. Very strategic how he has moved things. Think he has done his own thing thing and theres a spirit there that had ali not existed lebron would have made moved directly. Lebron is very grounded in what ali stood for and what ali without actually saying those words, being more than an athlete meant, and he carried that with him but carries it very smartly and not recklessly. Right. At the same time, im not one of those individuals that looks at lebron and expects him to be the next al limit im not the one who looks at Michael Jordan and expect him to be the next ali, looks a Serena Williams and say you need to be the next ali. Understand this man is unique in a way that we may never see him again. The same way malcolm x was unique in a way we may never see him. The same we Martin Luther king was unique and me never see him im. Nelson mandela, unique. Gandhi. We can go down the line to individuals that we will never see again, and i think muhammad ali is in that realm of conversation and we can include that and not put that on 0 athletes. They need to be him in order to have a social, political, racial, economic impact. That is not healthy thinking. Especially from us being minorities. We have i talked about thiswe as black people specially when it comes to sports and in parts of Movement Moving forward of the culture we have this thing but looking and searching for absolute blackness that almost becomes harmful, like we want all of our black heroes to not just wear day cant have flaws. They have to do everything and human beings dont function that way. Its not like ali is flawless. Its not likely bon is flawless, not like receive temperature, serena, tiger woodses, we can find flaws in black athletes and black politicians and black activist, find flaws down the line. Our problem is, we start to nitpick on lebron doing everything . What . Does he have to do everything in why does he have to be perfect in order to be important . Let him do his thing and is a long as hes not doing any harm, we cant expect him to do everything and i think we get caught up in that and i try to not be part of that, put i said it all i believe ali did things on such a level that we are almost think he was flawless and never made any mistakes and was the epitomy of absolute blackness and hold everybody else to what he did, and may not be another one of him and that becomes a problem. Theres great quote by ken burns, the great documentary filmmaker, ill get it wrong about he said, the greeks understood that heroes had flaws, that gods had flaws, and its like its a very specific part of our modern culture, we put people on pedestals and then theres whole process of them trying to tear them down. And instead of recognizing that part of what makes somebody a hero is how they negotiate the positive and negative parts of their character, and the war that is then enlisted as though two parts of their character go into combat with one another and thats a place where i think ali what makes him a hero is not that he was perfect but when it came time to stand up, he made the does be 12 feet tall. He didnt have to exactly. He welcome honor but shouldnt put that burden on somebody ems. Thats what makes special. If we think everything will be that think it means hes not that special. I dont want to take away from the importance of this but that is were talking about entertainers and Michael Jackson is here and Stevie Wonder and everybody else has to be like that. Thats impossible. Every now and then we get those individuals that do things on a level that the average or even the super human people cannot do but that is what separates them from everybody else, and to put the expectation on those that we consider great or carrying greatness within them, its wrongit doesnt help. Im not saying its wrong but doesnt help, and as black individuals, we dont have the luxury of having so many heroes. We only get a few heroes at a time, so we need to be very careful about bringing the heroes down. Try to make them up to a level, an impossible level because theres only a few of them that come you know, only a few that get accept. Put that way. I mentioned lebron in the first place and being in that tradition because of a tweet he did not have to do but a tweet he sent out that has gotten a lot of play, tremendous amount of publicity, where he is speaking about the case of Ahmaud Arbery in georgia in february was hunted down by a former Police