Guest i think it isnt all that different from the way weve seen him view the presidency of the last three and a half years. He is making it very partisan. He came out a few hours ago talking about the democratic mayor isnt doing enough, and how important the National Guard is. I think hes making it a partisan issue where in the past a president would reach out and be compassionate and bring people together instead of divide them. So i think that is something we have seen in both the pandemic and the recent protests. Host how did your book, about, what is the genesis of it . Guest id written a book called the residence and a couple other books about the white house, and ive always been fascinated by what happens behind the scenes on Inauguration Day. To me that is such a dramatic day when one new family moves in and another moves out. The public is looking at the front of the capitol. As you know, the swearingin ceremony that we all watch, but really behind the scenes theres controlled chaos at the white house. At the last inauguration i was fascinated by the obama family taking off in the helicopter right after President Trump was sworn in. They flew over the white house to look down at the house they lived in for eight years and every former president and first lady do, to start their lives. I wanted to dig into what happens when you suddenly go from being the most powerful person in the world to really being on the sidelines. Host that includes an interview he conducted with the president recounted in the book. Here are some of the details. Now a man that has been called a carnival barker and was sitting behind looking. He seemed occasionally unsure of what i was writing about. I guess you are writing about the first lady he said, referring to a subject id written about. No, i told him this is about the former president. He asked me more than once and he was subdued and thoughtful. A glass of diet coke on ice was the only thing on his desk. The room was so bright for flickr were television lights shining down from the ceiling, which would have been appropriate with him a reality tv stars. There were also three u. S. Flags and three president ial ones on display. Guest that speaks to how he views the presidency, he understands the importance of the job, that he is the most powerful person in the world that doesnt respect predecessors. I thought that i had to dig into that in the book. It couldnt just be the story of george h. W. Bush and bill clinton and their friendship, although i do get into that in the book. A remarkable friendship between these former president s who learned to get over rivalries which has been the case for decades. But i had to look at how donald trump would change the president s club. When you get them together in lots of ways, president george w. Bush there was more in common than with president donald trump. That is what i wanted to look into. Where does he fit into this club, and i asked him that and he laughed. He was very honest in the interview, certainly very honest and he said i dont think im going to fit in very well. What do you think . He was under no illusions of where he fits into history and how he is a disruptor. I think that he views himself that they even before office. Host here is an exchange. George w. Bush relied on his father, bill clinton relied on richard nixon. Have you reached out to whom and why . Not too much. I mean i speak with george bush, i spoke a little bit to the father, but not much. Its hard when people are against you. I very much disagree with the war in iraq, so its hard to say all of a sudden i can forget that. Im in a situation where we are in the middle east, where weve defeated as you know the caliphate. I did that because we wanted to do that. If 99 people said you cant pull out. When i took the oath it was a mess. I defeated 100 of the caliphate. That way isys doesnt go around bombing and doing what they do because they are crazy. Weve done a good job and i disagree strongly adding that into the middle east. Now for more than 7 trillion, thousands of lives, millions of lives yet to come on both sides because i count both sides. Millions of lives. In a country that didnt knock down the world trade center. It wasnt iraq and it wasnt saddam hussein. He was plenty of problems, he wasnt a good person but they didnt knock down the world trade center. So now we are stuck in the quicksand of extricating ourselves. I call it the endless war. Host from july of last year, is that essentially a mirror of what he told you . Guest yes. A little bit softer when it came to bush because hed just been invited to george h. W. Bush funeral. He appreciated the gesture. Its fascinating because in your interview of course is his relationship with george w. Bush, which is very strange. And according to my reporting, which i have talked to lots of people including george w. Bushs family and friends and they say trumps presidency is like the civil war. The only conversations trumpet has had with george w. Bush has been around Brett Kavanaugh who worked for bush and he called senators and to try to get kavanaugh confirmed during that hearing. But they only spoken twice on the phone and that was a long time ago. I know during the pandemic, all of the former president s want to be of service and help, but they feel they cannot do anything right now because it would look as though they are teaming up against him. The story would be why are they uniting and donald chump isnt part of this. So they feel like their hands are tied. Host there is one story in the book involving former president jimmy carter. As we know, he would walk down the streets to meet with family and friends for a steak dinner and you talk about that in the book. On a quiet saturday evening april of 2019, carter was about to go to the buffet table at a friends house and he called into the white house operator announcing President Trump wanted to talk to him about china and trade. He set down his plate and picked up the phone. He spoke most of the called carter was able to ask about the status of the talks and advised the president to be flexible with the north korean leader. Carter got inundated with trumps the National Security adviser john bolton, a supporter of the war in iraq to whic which the pt replied i call the shots according to a person in the room to ten minutes called leftparenthesis carter unmoved and after they hung up he went to the table, titled with platters of food and quietly told his plate as though nothing had happened. Just fo co. That is classic jimy carter. I dont know if youve had the opportunity, but he has an incredible sunday service. He and Roslyn Carter lived in a modest ranch style home that i went to visit with my friend. We went down there and it was an incredible meeting because he is so very modest and different from trump. Trump views him as a fellow outsider from the president s club. Over the years, carter has done things including criticizing george w. Bush about the war in iraq, criticizing bushs handling of hurricane katrina, and being very outspoken. He went to haiti, north korea, he was over the world on behalf of those countries, but in the process he was delivering messages, for instance on behalf of president clinton he went to haiti that brought a cnn crew with him and did an interview before he briefed clinton about what happened on the trip, which just is not done. So he does things his own way, and i think that he and trump have a kinship that has changed recently. Jimmy carter questioned whether trump was a legitimate president. Thats when i interviewed trump, he indicated carper is the only former president that he felt he really had an affinity for because he was a fellow outsider. Host one photograph captured in one of the former president s after barack obama was elected, during the transition. Though you can see george w. Bush, his father george h. W. Bush, president elect at the time, barack obama, former president s clinton and carter. Kate anderson power joining from her home in bethesda. Bob is up from his hometown of illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning, steve. Love cspan. Nice to talk with you. Ive been voting straight democrat since 1972. On the southside of chicago, so, small city. I got a photograph of my late wife with mr. Obama when he ran against bobby at a fundraiser. Im a little discouraged by what im reading in the news. I hope this doesnt come back to the president. I would agree that there are some factors in the top of the fbi. Im just hoping it doesnt come back to president obama. But if it does, is there any offer out there that will write a book about obama, and even when trump goes out to write a book about him unbiased . Theres so much bias in the news today, cspan is terrific. We all love cspan. But im afraid history will then a little bit and go Different Directions for both different president s. Thanks a lot. Host thinks from the call from illinois. Guest i think there are stories people look at in the trumps presidency that will be fair. There is a degree of liberal bias in the news, but i do think sometimes when you are just saying things that are kind of known such as for instance in my interview with the president i asked if he would go to president obamas president ial library opening, which is something every president has done in modern history, to celebrate the legacy of the president that came before him and he said no, why would they even invite the. We know he isnt going to invite the obama is to the president ial portrait unveiling. Its a break from tradition that i dont think its biased in marking that as a prick, but the bigger question is does that matter, do these traditions matter. Melania didnt get into the white house right away because she wanted her son to finish school. That isnt something a first lady had done but it was an interesting move because why shouldnt you be able to make those decisions for yourself and your family. So, they are disruptors and very different, but theyve also raised questions on these traditions. Host the caller mentioned former president obama and his comments earlier this year to the graduating class of the historically black colleges and universities. He didnt mention President Trump, but clearly it was on his mind. Lets watch. More than anyone on this pandemic is torn back the curtain on the idea that so many folks in charge know what they are doing. A lot of them are not even pretending to be in charge. If the world is going to get better, its going to be up to you. With everything suddenly feeling like it is up for grabs, this is your time to seize the thinitiative. Nobody can tell you any more than you should be waiting your turn. Nobody can tell you anymore that this is how its always been done. More than ever, this is your moment, your generations world to shape. Host when you heard that, what was your reaction . Guest i was surprised because president obama has really been quiet on the sidelines. Hes been criticized for that. I have reporting in the book about how she feels somewhat like hes in the vines. If he does come out and criticize President Trump, then immediately he provides a way to galvanize trump voters because they think you want an enemy and obama makes clearly for a great enemy. Weve heard him talk about this obama gate Conspiracy Theory that he hasnt proven. So i was surprised, i think it does show the pandemic has pushed president obama and president bush out into speaking. They feel like this is a bridge too far and hasnt been handled well. I talked to one former Trump Officials have said it is ironic that president feels more comfortable calling us strong men autocrats then he does picking up the phone to talk to obama or bush. Is there a problem with that for us would it be helpful to see these former president s now, love them or not a lot of people disagree with the war in iraq rightfully so. A lot of people have problems with clinton and bush and obama, but they do carry a certain moral authority. Certainly jimmy carter does, and i think people would like to see that especially now during the time of really an unprecedented pandemic in modern history. Its terrible whats going on around the country. It would be very nice for us to see president s come together again. Host dorothy is next from raleigh, north carolina. Caller good morning. I would like to address a couple of things quick but that isnt the question im going to ask. I want to make a couple of statements because a couple of calls to do so. Number one is there is no obama gate. The reason why the fbi was investigating Trumps Campaign members is because the fbi was listening to russia. The Trumps Campaign people were talking and that is how they got involved in this because the russians. Not the Trumps Campaign, there were 150 that led him into [inaudible] but that isnt the point. The thing i want to share it with the president , hes been very divisive as far as dividing the country. [inaudible] when history is written, there is no hearsay, we will see it. I think that its the divisiveness of him dividing us. One more thing and you can tell me when are we going to have another emergency they will have another attack and trump will still be in office and it will be terrible. People were on cspan from intelligence of congress and republican and democrat, they said not enough is being done and thats going to be the next emergency pandemic. Host thanks for the call from north carolina. Lets go back to the second point. And i was reminding you when former president bush released praising the front line workers during the pandemic, president of trumps response was where was he during the impeachment. Guest that was remarkable to me. And to her point, i do wonder if there are strategies behind some of that. Because it doesnt really make a whole lot of sense, because most president s would see video and say this is wonderful, lets all come together. But it said President Trump uses it to divide. I think this is kind of a cynical thinking here. And he said to you and said to me, he has serious disagreements with the president that came before him. He really thinks the war in iraq was the worst decision in history. History. Like him or not, he has to play these convictions. You can go back 20 years and look at what he said about america paying for other countries and Everyone Needs to pay their own fair share. He hasnt changed, and i think that the presidency if anything has caused him to become more of who he is. I think that he wants to be accepted by the former president s, i really do. But i think that he feels hes an outsider. Host good morning. On the phone from birmingham alabama. You are next. Caller thank you for accepting my call. I have a thought about the president s and the president obama just recently stated about basically handing the torch over to the future generation. Heres something that i think speaking with hundreds of peop people, the president some of those five president s if they were to come together and truly want to hand over the torch with the federal, congressional staffers we have right now for the 20 to 30 years really havent worked for the people. Bringing the payroll into the same system that the states have, and if you think about it its the same thing that we live under as a people, systems within our states, yet they have their own system. We understand with corporate and company is that there are ways of incentivizing peoples payrolls to create some type of productivity. Our congress staffers could do the same and they would produce if the payrolls and insurance were back home host thank you for the call from alabama. Comment . Guest i do think the larger point, and im not sure if this is exactly what hes talking about, but by the former president s cashing in on the presidency is and how its become a situation where the obama us could become the first billionaire former president and first lady because mrs. Obama is incredibly powerful in her own right. Looking back at jimmy carter who didnt profit from the presidency to the same extent at all, and then terry truman, someone who was so worried about looking like he was endorsing companies, bu that he wouldnt n sign his memoirs with a pen with a brand name on it because he was concerned that it would look like he was endorsing that brand. So, i think that since gerald ford who famously joined, weve seen the presidency earn enormous amount of money. Theres been some profiting off of the presidency that i think is really unseemly. And i talk about that in the book. At the same time, they give lots of money to charity and people have done a lot of good with the money as well. But there is something about getting paid 500,000 for an hourlong speech that seems ridiculous. Host our guest is kate anderson, the latest book team of five president s club in the age of trump. Also the author of the bestsellers the residence, look at the white house and first women, contributor to the new york times, vanity fair, washington post, Bloomberg Business week. Alex is joining from florida. Good morning. Caller good morning. In regards to your book cover, i really like that there are five politicians and donald trump is not a politician as we all know. The one thing that you said absolutely right earlier when you were interviewing him and he answered one of your questions straightforward. Fat speaks to me and that is the way that i would rather have a president act. And to the woman that called earlier and said he is the most divisive, no hunting the president obama was the most divisive president s weve ever had. Host thank you to the caller from st. Petersburg, florida. First a reaction to his comment. Guest i think its right, absolutely, the things that the president of trump with the voters like most about him is that he does tell it like it is. He says what he thinks. And he speaks very openly and plainly. And you feel like there is an intimacy there. I was very impressed when i went into the oval office for our interview. He was leaning in on the desk and looking intently. He was very interested in the questions and he really wanted to get into where he fits. And he was very honest but he doesnt fit in at all with any of the former living president s. So i think his point, yes, that is what it feels to most of the voters. Host one thought about the cover and body language of the moment. You can see president bush, obama and clinton relatively close together and a bit of a distance to former president jimmy carter. I know its just a photograph, but what does that tell you . Guest its funny because it took me a while to even get that version of the photograph. There were several taken that day, and many had jimmy carter further away. They were awkwardly standing beside. He isnt part of this group i