Guest i think it isnt all that different from the way weve seen him view the presidency of the last three and a half years. He is making it very partisan. He came out a few hours ago talking about the democratic mayor isnt doing enough, and how important the National Guard is. I think hes making it a partisan issue where in the past a president would reach out and be compassionate and bring people together instead of divide them. So i think that is something we have seen in both the pandemic and the recent protests. Host how did your book, about, what is the genesis of it . Guest id written a book called the residence and a couple other books about the white house, and ive always been fascinated by what happens behind the scenes on Inauguration Day. To me that is such a dramatic day when one new family moves in and another moves out. The public is looking at the front of the capitol. As you know, the swearingin ceremony that we all watch, but really behind the scenes theres controlled chaos at the white house. At the last inauguration i was fascinated by the obama family taking off in the helicopter right after President Trump was sworn in. They flew over the white house to look down at the house they lived in for eight years and every former president and first lady do, to start their lives. I wanted to dig into what happens when you suddenly go from being the most powerful person in the world to really being on the sidelines. Host that includes an interview he conducted with the president recounted in the book. Here are some of the details. Now a man that has been called a carnival barker and was sitting behind looking. He seemed occasionally unsure of what i was writing about. I guess you are writing about the first lady he said, referring to a subject id written about. No, i told him this is about the former president. He asked me more than once and he was subdued and thoughtful. A glass of diet coke on ice was the only thing on his desk. The room was so bright for flickr were television lights shining down from the ceiling, which would have been appropriate with him a reality tv stars. There were also three u. S. Flags and three president ial ones on display. Guest that speaks to how he views the presidency, he understands the importance of the job, that he is the most powerful person in the world that doesnt respect predecessors. I thought that i had to dig into that in the book. It couldnt just be the story of george h. W. Bush and bill clinton and their friendship, although i do get into that in the book. A remarkable friendship between these former president s who learned to get over rivalries which has been the case for decades. But i had to look at how donald trump would change the president s club. When you get them together in lots of ways, president george w. Bush there was more in common than with president donald trump. That is what i wanted to look into. Where does he fit into this club, and i asked him that and he laughed. He was very honest in the interview, certainly very honest and he said i dont think im going to fit in very well. What do you think . He was under no illusions of where he fits into history and how he is a disruptor. I think that he views himself that they even before office. Host here is an exchange. George w. Bush relied on his father, bill clinton relied on richard nixon. Have you reached out to whom and why . Not too much. I mean i speak with george bush, i spoke a little bit to the father, but not much. Its hard when people are against you. I very much disagree with the war in iraq, so its hard to say all of a sudden i can forget that. Im in a situation where we are in the middle east, where weve defeated as you know the caliphate. I did that because we wanted to do that. If 99 people said you cant pull out. When i took the oath it was a mess. I defeated 100 of the caliphate. That way isys doesnt go around bombing and doing what they do because they are crazy. Weve done a good job and i disagree strongly adding that into the middle east. Now for more than 7 trillion, thousands of lives, millions of lives yet to come on both sides because i count both sides. Millions of lives. In a country that didnt knock down the world trade center. It wasnt iraq and it wasnt saddam hussein. He was plenty of problems, he wasnt a good person but they didnt knock down the world trade center. So now we are stuck in the quicksand of extricating ourselves. I call it the endless war. Host from july of last year, is that essentially a mirror of what he told you . Guest yes. A little bit softer when it came to bush because hed just been invited to george h. W. Bush funeral. He appreciated the gesture. Its fascinating because in your interview of course is his relationship with george w. Bush, which is very strange. And according to my reporting, which i have talked to lots of people including george w. Bushs family and friends and they say trumps presidency is like the civil war. The only conversations trumpet has had with george w. Bush has been around Brett Kavanaugh who worked for bush and he called senators and to try to get kavanaugh confirmed during that hearing. But they only spoken twice on the phone and that was a long time ago. I know during the pandemic, all of the former president s want to be of service and help, but they feel they cannot do anything right now because it would look as though they are teaming up against him. The story would be why are they uniting and donald chump isnt part of this. So they feel like their hands are tied. Host there is one story in the book involving former president jimmy carter. As we know, he would walk down the streets to meet with family and friends for a steak dinner and you talk about that in the book. On a quiet saturday evening april of 2019, carter was about to go to the buffet table at a friends house and he called into the white house operator announcing President Trump wanted to talk to him about china and trade. He set down his plate and picked up the phone. He spoke most of the called carter was able to ask about the status of the talks and advised the president to be flexible with the north korean leader. Carter got inundated with trumps the National Security adviser john bolton, a supporter of the war in iraq to whic which the pt replied i call the shots according to a person in the room to ten minutes called leftparenthesis carter unmoved and after they hung up he went to the table, titled with platters of food and quietly told his plate as though nothing had happened. Just fo co. That is classic jimy carter. I dont know if youve had the opportunity, but he has an incredible sunday service. He and Roslyn Carter lived in a modest ranch style home that i went to visit with my friend. We went down there and it was an incredible meeting because he is so very modest and different from trump. Trump views him as a fellow outsider from the president s club. Over the years, carter has done things including criticizing george w. Bush about the war in iraq, criticizing bushs handling of hurricane katrina, and being very outspoken. He went to haiti, north korea, he was over the world on behalf of those countries, but in the process he was delivering messages, for instance on behalf of president clinton he went to haiti that brought a cnn crew with him and did an interview before he briefed clinton about what happened on the trip, which just is not done. So he does things his own way, and i think that he and trump have a kinship that has changed recently. Jimmy carter questioned whether trump was a legitimate president. Thats when i interviewed trump, he indicated carper is the only former president that he felt he really had an affinity for because he was a fellow outsider. Host one photograph captured in one of the former president s after barack obama was elected, during the transition. Though you can see george w. Bush, his father george h. W. Bush, president elect at the time, barack obama, former president s clinton and carter. Kate anderson power joining from her home in bethesda. Bob is up from his hometown of illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning, steve. Love cspan. Nice to talk with you. Ive been voting straight democrat since 1972. On the southside of chicago, so, small city. I got a photograph of my late wife with mr. Obama when he ran against bobby at a fundraiser. Im a little discouraged by what im reading in the news. I hope this doesnt come back to the president. I would agree that there are some factors in the top of the fbi. Im just hoping it doesnt come back to president obama. But if it does, is there any offer out there that will write a book about obama, and even when trump goes out to write a book about him unbiased . Theres so much bias in the news today, cspan is terrific. We all love cspan. But im afraid history will then a little bit and go Different Directions for both different president s. Thanks a lot. Host thinks from the call from illinois. Guest i think there are stories people look at in the trumps presidency that will be fair. There is a degree of liberal bias in the news, but i do think sometimes when you are just saying things that are kind of known such as for instance in my interview with the president i asked if he would go to president obamas president ial library opening, which is something every president has done in modern history, to celebrate the legacy of the president that came before him and he said no, why would they even invite the. We know he isnt going to invite the obama is to the president ial portrait unveiling. Its a break from tradition that i dont think its biased in marking that as a prick, but the bigger question is does that matter, do these traditions matter. Melania didnt get into the white house right away because she wanted her son to finish school. That isnt something a first lady had done but it was an interesting move because why shouldnt you be able to make those decisions for yourself and your family. So, they are disruptors and very different, but theyve also raised questions on these traditions. Host the caller mentioned former president obama and his comments earlier this year to the graduating class of the historically black colleges and universities. He didnt mention President Trump, but clearly it was on his mind. Lets watch. More than anyone on this pandemic is torn back the curtain on the idea that so many folks in charge know what they are doing. A lot of them are not even pretending to be in charge. If the world is going to get better, its going to be up to you. With everything suddenly feeling like it is up for grabs, this is your time to seize the thinitiative. Nobody can tell you any more than you should be waiting your turn. Nobody can tell you anymore that this is how its always been done. More than ever, this is your moment, your generations world to shape. Host when you heard that, what was your reaction . Guest i was surprised because president obama has really been quiet on the sidelines. Hes been criticized for that. I have reporting in the book about how she feels somewhat like hes in the vines. If he does come out and criticize President Trump, then immediately he provides a way to galvanize trump voters because they think you want an enemy and obama makes clearly for a great enemy. Weve heard him talk about this obama gate Conspiracy Theory that he hasnt proven. So i was surprised, i think it does show the pandemic has pushed president obama and president bush out into speaking. They feel like this is a bridge too far and hasnt been handled well. I talked to one former Trump Officials have said it is ironic that president feels more comfortable calling us strong men autocrats then he does picking up the phone to talk to obama or bush. Is there a problem with that for us would it be helpful to see these former president s now, love them or not a lot of people disagree with the war in iraq rightfully so. A lot of people have problems with clinton and bush and obama, but they do carry a certain moral authority. Certainly jimmy carter does, and i think people would like to see that especially now during the time of really an unprecedented pandemic in modern history. Its terrible whats going on around the country. It would be very nice for us to see president s come together again. Host dorothy is next from raleigh, north carolina. Caller good morning. I would like to address a couple of things quick but that isnt the question im going to ask. I want to make a couple of statements because a couple of calls to do so. Number one is there is no obama gate. The reason why the fbi was investigating Trumps Campaign members is because the fbi was listening to russia. The Trumps Campaign people were talking and that is how they got involved in this because the russians. Not the Trumps Campaign, there were 150 that led him into [inaudible] but that isnt the point. The thing i want to share it with the president , hes been very divisive as far as dividing the country. [inaudible] when history is written, there is no hearsay, we will see it. I think that its the divisiveness of him dividing us. One more thing and you can tell me when are we going to have another emergency they will have another attack and trump will still be in office and it will be terrible. People were on cspan from intelligence of congress and republican and democrat, they said not enough is being done and thats going to be the next emergency pandemic. Host thanks for the call from north carolina. Lets go back to the second point. And i was reminding you when former president bush released praising the front line workers during the pandemic, president of trumps response was where was he during the impeachment. Guest that was remarkable to me. And to her point, i do wonder if there are strategies behind some of that. Because it doesnt really make a whole lot of sense, because most president s would see video and say this is wonderful, lets all come together. But it said President Trump uses it to divide. I think this is kind of a cynical thinking here. And he said to you and said to me, he has serious disagreements with the president that came before him. He really thinks the war in iraq was the worst decision in history. History. Like him or not, he has to play these convictions. You can go back 20 years and look at what he said about america paying for other countries and Everyone Needs to pay their own fair share. He hasnt changed, and i think that the presidency if anything has caused him to become more of who he is. I think that he wants to be accepted by the former president s, i really do. But i think that he feels hes an outsider. Host good morning. On the phone from birmingham alabama. You are next. Caller thank you for accepting my call. I have a thought about the president s and the president obama just recently stated about basically handing the torch over to the future generation. Heres something that i think speaking with hundreds of peop people, the president some of those five president s if they were to come together and truly want to hand over the torch with the federal, congressional staffers we have right now for the 20 to 30 years really havent worked for the people. Bringing the payroll into the same system that the states have, and if you think about it its the same thing that we live under as a people, systems within our states, yet they have their own system. We understand with corporate and company is that there are ways of incentivizing peoples payrolls to create some type of productivity. Our congress staffers could do the same and they would produce if the payrolls and insurance were back home host thank you for the call from alabama. Comment . Guest i do think the larger point, and im not sure if this is exactly what hes talking about, but by the former president s cashing in on the presidency is and how its become a situation where the obama us could become the first billionaire former president and first lady because mrs. Obama is incredibly powerful in her own right. Looking back at jimmy carter who didnt profit from the presidency to the same extent at all, and then terry truman, someone who was so worried about looking like he was endorsing companies, bu that he wouldnt n sign his memoirs with a pen with a brand name on it because he was concerned that it would look like he was endorsing that brand. So, i think that since gerald ford who famously joined, weve seen the presidency earn enormous amount of money. Theres been some profiting off of the presidency that i think is really unseemly. And i talk about that in the book. At the same time, they give lots of money to charity and people have done a lot of good with the money as well. But there is something about getting paid 500,000 for an hourlong speech that seems ridiculous. Host our guest is kate anderson, the latest book team of five president s club in the age of trump. Also the author of the bestsellers the residence, look at the white house and first women, contributor to the new york times, vanity fair, washington post, Bloomberg Business week. Alex is joining from florida. Good morning. Caller good morning. In regards to your book cover, i really like that there are five politicians and donald trump is not a politician as we all know. The one thing that you said absolutely right earlier when you were interviewing him and he answered one of your questions straightforward. Fat speaks to me and that is the way that i would rather have a president act. And to the woman that called earlier and said he is the most divisive, no hunting the president obama was the most divisive president s weve ever had. Host thank you to the caller from st. Petersburg, florida. First a reaction to his comment. Guest i think its right, absolutely, the things that the president of trump with the voters like most about him is that he does tell it like it is. He says what he thinks. And he speaks very openly and plainly. And you feel like there is an intimacy there. I was very impressed when i went into the oval office for our interview. He was leaning in on the desk and looking intently. He was very interested in the questions and he really wanted to get into where he fits. And he was very honest but he doesnt fit in at all with any of the former living president s. So i think his point, yes, that is what it feels to most of the voters. Host one thought about the cover and body language of the moment. You can see president bush, obama and clinton relatively close together and a bit of a distance to former president jimmy carter. I know its just a photograph, but what does that tell you . Guest its funny because it took me a while to even get that version of the photograph. There were several taken that day, and many had jimmy carter further away. They were awkwardly standing beside. He isnt part of this group in the way that i think he would like to be maybe. I have reporting in the buck that when he would call the white house he would call today at advice and he would get a call back from Tom Donnellan who was obamas National Security adviser and an intern in the carter white house. So if you are a former president calling and getting a return call from someone that works for you, you expect to be called back by the president. And i think that there is the fact corker feels like he hasnt been given the proper respect. Host ruth joining us from illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning, everyone. Sorry about how this country is going. I want to ask the lady to questions. When the riots happened was his comment . They were the same as president of trump. These people keep calling about segregating children at the border, putting them in cages. Who built this cages . There was a very good reason president obama got those two separate families. It was to find out what kids know what families. Host thank you typical from illinois. I dont agree in speaking to the point of immigration one thing i found interesting when i spoke to a spokesman from the bush family they said we have naturalization ceremonies at the bush center and now when they have them there is the concern that they will be seen as antagonizing him and now these are very simple things that are seen as an attack on the president. We see stuff about the freedom of the press are we criticizing President Trump . President of trump sometimes takes these things very personally. I dont think that answered the question but it made me think of that. That. Itll depend on friday you indicated that the Trump Library would be in florida, not new york city. Can you explain . Guest it was funny because he said he hadnt given it much thought. I have to believe what he is saying. He hasnt given a ton of thought to where it will be. It will be either florida or new york. My thoughts are it would make more sense to have it in florida because we know new york city especially hasnt welcomed so it doesnt make sense. Ive been thinking about what hes going to do as a former president s when they. I think that he will write a book and a memoir in the postpresidency will probably have a lot of revelation and be much less guarded than other president ial memoirs have been. Guest caller donald trump has hijacked the party. If you listen, he grew up in new york and has totally bamboozled the republican party. The real conservatives are looking at him and said you can destroy our party for many years. The democratic opportunity right now is to swoop in, get him out of office and bring the country back. Joe biden is perfect but hes a lot better than donald trump at this point. Ive interview with joe biden several times and i cannot think of a person that is more different right now than donald trump may be other than jimmy carter. He would fit into this president s club in a way donald trump certainly wont. Hehe has always worked with republicans and he cares very much about the institutions. But i would also say that its about these friendships between republicans and democrats into the callers point, there has always been respected and even grudging admiration and i have a story in the book of george h. W. Bush and the last former president he ever saw before passing away was barack obama three days before he passed. Obama have a lot of respect for bush 41 among the last of the greatest generation he was a world war ii hero and obama respected. So i think that there will be a time that we can go back to this feeling of respect and admiration at the former president s have had to some extent. Host you write the following i asked President Trump as being safe was a difficult decision that cost the famous test because only the most difficult reached the president had given him a new understanding and empathy for the men who come before him. No, he replied. Say hi to president bush for me and a voice laden with sarcasm. He felt like he was handed a big mess if literally sit at the top Shrub Administration and trump accomplished. Having covered barack obama, i cant imagine obama doing Something Like that. He was an elvi outsider and hado convince reporters his due credit. I was struck by that and it was a topsecret letter by the leader shown in both english and korean. You cant report within this letter but look at what im viewing in north korea. No one else has been able to accomplish this. So i think that speaks to the sense that he is an outsider and reporters are not being fair to him and i think that he saw our interview as a chance to kind of be heard. Host to bring down their political opponents. Host the Senate Judiciary committee will hold a hearing on the origins of that investigation an and there wille live on the cspan networks. It is not a perfect example of that at all. Of course there was division in the obama years but idyllic now have just gotten increasingly worse and worse if people are really taking sides. In this book but i am trying to do is show the way that president s have come together and help someone like bill clinton who in 92 ran against george h. W. Bush and the family didnt like him at all. Im looking at the presidency through those eyes but also there is a chapter on caching it and how they have made so much money off of this position, so i think that it is a pretty bipartisan account. Because of the demonstrations weve seen over the weekend that this is the headline from the trump versus twitter. Its what you need to know about the showdown following the executive order. And again going back to the interview that we conducted at july of last year, we asked about the use of twitter. Show that and then we look at the reaction. Did you ever regretted sending one out . G. I sent the one about the wiretapping and at that time remember what a big deal that was . The reason that it was a big deal as it turned out to be true. I guess you could say it turned out to be from a player tha that isnt the best player in the world that causes the problem but overall i would say no, it is a modernday form of communication and it isnt really tweets. As soon as i do it, everybody puts it off as breaking news. It is an incredible way of communicating. Host from july of last year. And you write about this in your book as well. Guest one of the things that infuriated barack obama was the wiretapping application and he even went to his staff tuesday absolutely obama didnt wiretap the Campaign Office wasnt strong enough. He is very carefully and usually doesnt come back that strongly against the trump it speaks a lot to how obama feels pushed into a corner. Every time he tweets, the media does cover it. Its the traditional channels and there is a controversial tweet then you are not doing your job because you have to highlight that. It is an amazing use of the power to the presidency. Host the significance of the executive order not only for twitter but also other social Media Companies is not . If you are the most important and powerful person in the world which the president is coming you have to be very thoughtful on what youre communicating sometimes it is a 4 00 in the morning and i think it is also interesting because i asked if he has trouble sleeping and he said he sleeps just fine. You have to wonder if these up all night. Thanks for waiting in chicago. Good morning. Caller a couple of things and please bear with me. Trump says it like it is, and that drives me crazy sometimes. But i want to get back to that after i say two things regarding the steel dossier and reminding me theres going to be some hearings this week regarding. When trump unexpectedly arrived and took the question and pretended to be an ra was in jail for 18 months and sentenced to 18 years. Back to trump accomplishments, reading this from july 5, 2018. He says it like it is. Ive broken more often john records. He seems to have a lot of records in a way, by the way dont have a musical instrument. I dont have a guitar or in organ. Weve broken virtually every records because you know i only need this space. They need much more room for basketball they need a lot of room. Host thank you for joining us. Guest he understands the state but of anybody. I think we are going to continue to see him do it. There were several press conferences he took a long time to answer questions very thoughtfully. Host david from south carolina, good morning. Caller i want to offer a slightly different perspective. There were such a long shot during the primaries and initial part of the primaries and the fact that he was elected came as a huge surprise that i want to offer a perspective from the point of view i actually felt good for when president obama was elected. It was something they need to. By the end of the second term we are tired of hearing about race and almost every issue so i think that its one of the reasons he was elected. None of this was all meaning. It was just a mantra of the Democratic Party to the underserved party due to histo history. Im never talking to wilson and several others and when they were on Inauguration Day theyve left for the segregation and we hear Michelle Obama talk about living in a house that was built so i agree there is something very important about that moment host that callback in 2009 caller and finding this interesting he tells it like it is and thats what people like about him but it isnt mentioned hes also been documented selling off 20,000 lives while he tells it like it is and also you mentioned the profiteering that you didnt mention the fact anyone associated with them he continues so please when to make a statement and that upsets me. Guest im not trying to take sides on any of this. Its gotten out of whack in many ways look at the way the obama stand clinton and jimmy carter came together. Heres the three former president s there was a lot of bad blood between them but he became friends on a plane trip and came so close and asked jimmy carter of the eulogy and i asked the jimmy carter about it he said hes someone i think about a lot and i treasure of friendship. We could talk as former president s. Its not about the steel dossier about the past and try to put it in the framework of what we need today which is so different because we cant imagine donald trump becoming friendly with any of the former president s. If you think back to the 2016 election, donald trump invited if using bill clinton of rape. How can you ever move beyond that . You cant. Politics has become such a sports and its changed the way things will go forward. Host oklahoma city, good morning. Caller she keeps talking about how honest and great this man is. Im sorry. I have two things [inaudible] he had to pay 25 million. This has happened two or three times during his lifetime. Its been kicked under the rug. Kushner came out and said we hired 20 of them. Hes lied to us and has done this over and over. I dont know why we dont talk about that. Why would you have a president that sets up something in the seals every penny for the child to go to college. You dont have a college, what kind of person does that. Host thank you, from oklahoma. Guest im not someone defending, but he speaks in a very simple way which you cant deny the i think that there is an absolute contrast between the compassionate conservatism bush talked about and demonstrated so often talking about America First and its a very different approach. Im looking at this through the political lens and historical lens but thats what hes doing now and its dividing the country. Its really very bad writing for our democracy. Host the book is titled a team of five president s club and age of trump. Before we let you go because they have been studying this story, it is the term for the u. S. To host the summit initially in florida and then to camp david, and i then it was go be a Virtual Summit and now in washington in june by the german chancellor saying shes unable to attend unless they move to september. Guest the fractured relationships are not only between donald trump and the american predecessors but they are between donald trump and the world. It created a lot of ill will and the relationship pimp merkle and obama. There were several people that were top cabinet officials shocked by some of the things he said about his predecessors and foreign leaders in a kind of disrespectful way he spoke about them privately so i think it speaks to these fractured relationships. Host joining from her home in maryland, good luck with the book and thanks for being with us. And the broader question is how do we could hope the cia and fbi and there was a thought into the current u. S. Attorney general is part of this group but when they agreed to the changes, two members of the staff were dick cheney and Donald Rumsfeld into both of them worked in the white house and opposed this. Antonin scalia who was then a conservative scholar went on to become a Supreme Court justice and felt that after watergate, the creation of these oversight committees there was also the creation of inspectors general of the convertible terms of the spending of the emergency funds for the virus. Those were independent apolitical positions created by congress and they were supposed to investigate spending and abuse and there was a thought that essentially the presidency was being weak and too much, there was too much oversight about the executive branch is doing and then he gave a speech recently to the Federalist Society he felt there was too much activism and an opponent of abortion rights we saw that as the courts going too far but in terms of the president s power they felt he complained just recently under President Trump these orders that would be stopped by federal judges there were several on the coast that stopped things trump was trying to carry out. He said that overreach. More than the legislative branch and additional branches that performed the best in the country is under threat and he favors a strong presidency that cant be slowed down by these other branches. Questions on that. Is there any evidence in your reporting in the world of the have seen evidence, we dont have the example that is there evidence a strong president has done a better job than the legislatures here in congress . During the times of crisis . He would argue post9 11 to detain and put them in Guantanamo Bay the Bush Administration ran a warrantless wiretapping program. They didnt feel that was needed and most americans supported after 9 11 but this is a big debate. If you fastforward to today there is a belief among other conservatives and then you have donald trump who welcomes the power. Its up to the states to decide but these are some couple questions about how should our democracy function. Should our three branches be equally powerful or do we need a strong presidency so we are living through an amazing moment in history. Welcome to todays segment
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