They held a demonstration, the demonstration turned violent. These two stories from different parts of the world come together at a new book titled they marched into sunlight, the authors David Maraniss. Hello David Maraniss. Your epilogue you write that connections fascinate you more than ideology. What is that mean . And how was it reflected in this book . I guess it means i am a journalist and historian. I am not trying to make a specific theological point when i do my reporting. I believe over the course of years our history is looked at different ways. I want to present 1967 and that point in time as actively and deeply as i could and stripped away some of the stereotypes of the 60s that sort of make it hard so so hard to see from the perspective of today. Who is this for . I hope it is for everybody. It certainly starts with the author you write about something you are interested in. My previous book what are there it was about bill clinton or Vince Lombardi always came around to the 60s. I am a product of that generation. I was born in 1949, i was 18 years old in 1967. I think like everyone in my generation, the non shaped who i am today. So its first of all for that generation perhaps. Vietnam vets are people who are back in the states. Its also for younger people of today who are fascinated by vietnam in that era and want to learn more about it. And also for the older generation. Thats one of the things about this book im not writing to the left, not writing it to the right not to the younger old but for everybody to understand that era. Before we get to that story and how to do it you meld these two stories, why did you choose to meld two stories at all and why did you choose these two stories . I had read a lot about vietnam preparing for this book. There is wonderful literature about the war itself. There are some excellent books on the sounds much overall about that. And of course a lot of great books analyze the Johnson Administration and the Nixon Administration later a Foreign Policy study. But had not seen a book that tried to bring those very, very different worlds together. They were worlds that are dealing with the same thing which was this work. So i started by saying i was interested in 1967 because i think that was when everything was still up in the air. It was before the offensive of 1968 that change the Public Perception of the war. As right when the Counter Culture was emerging i wanted to capture that very moment. When i was a freshman at wisconsin i am not a character in the book until the very end but that moment stuck in my mind. That is when i started with a demonstration which i observed pretty want to the library and see what was going on in vietnam and found this incredible battle and that is how the idea started to read. So two days in october 1967 these things happen. Yes october 17 and 18th. See niclas over the vietnam side. You spend most of your time talking about an area vietnam where is it . We have a map and if you want a point to it that scraper. Its 30 to 40 miles north of saigon a little northwest. Its where the First Infantry Division was moving its headquarters. The entire brigade, the battalion i write about was headquartered there. It was both a small village and a large American Military base at the same time. That is where everything starts in this book. Who are these gentlemen . Not in particular but what division customer. Its a black Alliance Division of the first im sorry its the black line battalion of the First Division the second of the 28th recalled. Its composed of four companies of soldiers. What is a mangy black line . Means youre part of a long tradition of soldiers going back to 1901 the black lines of canteen eight was a major battle in world war i and thats where it started. At this time just putting this again in perspective the time of this battle, that had not yet happen for. No in the American Military was still focusing on a policy of search and destroy. General westmoreland the commanding general of the forces in vietnam, believed the war was being one and could be one through battles of attrition much like general grant in the civil war, you go out there, you find the enemies you kill enough of them and you will win. He thought that was happening at that point. They were sending out these battalions to find the vietcong, and kill them thinking they could win the war that way. So what happened this case . In this case its an incredible story where there was a regiment of the peoples army of vietnam, the first regiment was called ahead some other nicknames as well. Losing vietnam since 1960 when there are some of the original fighters to come from the south. They, at this point, were starving they could not find any rice anywhere that whole swath of vietnam. They were moving from one service camp to another in search of rice to feed their men. They were literally on their way to another city where they were supposed to take part in an attack on the city they would be somewhat of a precursor but the attack of the tet offensive. To the couldnt find any food so they came into this area in search of rice. They found this american battalion was in there looking for vietcong and they set up an ambush. So and this is it right here this is a seeker zone you mention . Yes it goes back to the fight against the french. It was not the densest jungle book pretty dense triple canopy in some places. There were farms around their and water buffalo. It was typical geography of that part of vietnam is very hard to maneuver them. Why did we move that so many men that day . There are so many reason given for that answer. You can start with the specific which is the americans were terribly outnumbered. There were less than 140 men who were on the battlefield that day prayed there over 121200 at least members of the first regiment of vietnamese fighting against them. They had been watching the americans for two days. Theyd set up this ambush ahead of time. They had men in trees looking out for them. They had headquarters in the back getting reports on where the americans were coming. The commander of the vietnamese first regiment said, they had been watching from the moment they left their base camp. There are many other reasons the battle took place though it did. Another one is that a Company Commander in the black lines battalion name welch is a hero of this book at them anyway he is. Hed been very leery of marching straight back to where they had been the day before the way his superiors wanted them to do. Tried to talk the commander out of that. He was overruled and thats another reason the battle happened in such an awful way. So heres a picture he said hes 27 . So hes 27 years old hed been in the special forces. He was made an officer in the field, he had come up through the ranks he was a great soldier thats how he got his own company as a First Lieutenant. Perhaps the only First Lieutenant in the division who commanded his own company that point. Theyre mostly captains. So 61 of a proximally one or 41 men died that day. Or that day or wounded from that battle. And another 50 or 60 were wounded in different ways. Many of the men said they were surprised anyone survive. Wyatt where their subsequent different stories about this battle . Because it was not the time when the Johnson Administration or anybody who was pushing the war at that point wanted to acknowledge the great First Infantry Division could walk into an ambush and get wiped out on the whole theory then was they would win every battle if they could just find the vietcong and get them to stand and fight. In this book, as i did my research i discovered documents that prove beyond a doubt they concocted a rosy version of what took place there. The men who fought in battle knew what had happened. They were angry about the depiction of the battle than anyone else. At almost strip them of their own honor to lie about it. We are going to learn a lot about some of the young men who were there that day. I want to just grab one right now so people can get a feel for danny sikorsky. I call him the quintessential milwaukee workingclass kid. He was a voice check in milwaukee wisconsin much of the other part of my book takes place in wisconsin. I use him to make part of that connection. He had signed up as a volunteer for the draft, went to vietnam at age 19. And was killed in the battle from the south side of milwaukee his nickname they could not give him that name in milwaukee heres what you write in your book you said when he was home just before he left for vietnam he gave her, meeting his sister diane advice about how to deal with boyfriends and what to do about their father in their new stepmother. Together they remembered the smell of their mothers homemade soup. Back when danny was born his tatted planted a pine tree by the side of the house on eighth street. Now when a young soldier took a trip back to the Old Neighborhood he noticed the new owner had cut the pine tree down. Why that level of detail . Thats the way i write. Im always looking for you can call poetic connections, its of the points in life you remember. I had several long conversations with dannys sister, who was over the course of the year she became more and more willing to remember things about the family and danny. It is by going back to people again and again she started writing me letters and notes remembering more. When you get that level of detail which makes people remember and makes them connected in a human way with all of these characters. That, above all is what i try to do my book. Willie c johnson. He was one of the platoon leaders for the Alpha Company which was the lead company in this battle. His entire platoon just about got wiped out. He had a habit mckee was considered a great sergeant. He had his men really trust him he had a habit of singing a soul song on his way into the fields every day which was not on wood. That was sort of his symbol of good luck. And in this case turned into an incredibly ironic point. The signal for the attack by the vietcong commander was three knocks out a block of wood. A connection. Lets move on to the american side of the story. What was going on at the university of wisconsin in madison. Why did you choose this particular except for the timing, with this important you personally . Guest i guess it was. It was somewhat in important for me personally it always been on the wisconsin campus for a month at that point. The first process i had ever seen as i have said, for had to interview myself of this book and remembering that event i was sort of on the edge of the crowd i have vague memories of teargas wafting and seeing people come out with blood he heads. But not many great specific memories. My whole sort of evolution of how i thought about the war and life was just happening right then. Why are you demonstrate that . Because Dow Chemical Company of michigan which created napalm which was a jellied gas had become the symbol of the war machine. Dow Chemical Company would travel around the country with recruiters going to campuses trying to sign up seniors to go work for their Chemical Company. Starting in 1966, actually at Wayne State University in detroit and i think berkeley, a whole wave of demonstrations against Dow Chemical Company began. October 1967 and going on for several months. Decision was made in wisconsin they would try to obstruct the interviews. Thats what was happening that day. Why would a company like dell go into a campus where they already know theres an antiwar feeling . One of the parts of the reporting of this book im most proud of is a couple of chapters on Dow Chemical Company to get inside them and see what they were thinking. I went up to midland, michigan with my nephew, dan, who helped research that part of the book. We spent a day up there in their archives. They let me into their archives in part this is the way life of a historian, the president of the company had read my bensalem party book he liked it he thought i was a fair and thorough writer and journalist. He let me go to their archives account internal letters and documents with a very honest debate going on inside the company. One of the publicist wrote about he was concerned they would be called the merchants of death. And then said well should we stop making it were not really making much money off of is its not one of our bigger enterprises. Should be given to these protests . No. So they decided they would keep doing it. C1 how did the demonstration turned violent . And why . Guest why does a demonstration turned violent . A lot of mistakes on all sides. Some of the students, there were probably 300 students inside the Commerce Building which had very narrow hallways its almost like being in a submarine. They had obstructed the entire hallway where the dow interviews were taking place. Most of the people in that room were there because they oppose the war in vietnam they thought they were having an active civil disobedience where most of be dragged out by the police and arrested. Most of the police had never dealt with a destructive demonstration before. Theyd never been trained in rioting except a few were trained by the Chicago Police force and rioting which later said that may not of been the best place to be trained. In any case theres very little training in that part. The administration of the university of wisconsin had essentially lost control of the event by that point. The chancellor of the universit university, who will talk about more later, was a tragic great figure in this book. In any case, the police came into move up the students, there is so little room in there, was almost inevitable there be pushing and shoving food one of the policeman fell against a window that jagged edges of the window started making deep. They students push back some of the cops came back they hated these kids they thought were spoiled brats and most of the cops are from the east side of madison workingclass men who had absolutely nothing in common with the students. There are some of that. This is a chance to crack some heads. There are some students in their who were prepared to be violent and return there are just a few of them taken off their belts and using them as weapons. And just everything unfolded in the ugliest possible way for a very brief period of time the cops, the Police Officers just plowed through their bashing heads. Later well talk about the impact it had nationally and what was going on after words. I want to make one other point its coppola but as the book is come out. People said they use equivalents for people diana protests were some kids get their head bashed. First of all the terms loaded i dont know what moral is in these cases. Obviously there are enormous differences. I am not trying to say they are equal that a soldier who is facing a life or death situation is equal to a protester whos going to purchase and they might get hit they go out live. Trying to bring together these two worlds at that time. The reader can see is the book unfolds the difference. They are not meant to be equal weight in terms of what happened that day. And finally bridge the two events by whats going on in washington. Yes, lbj is the hinge between the two of them. Because at that point, he was feeling and normas pressure on how the war was going and how the war was developing. Every day he was consumed by those two events. He would have the situation room filled them with reports on every battle in vietnam and have a daily count of how many enemies had been killed so called the body counts. And how many battles had taken place and whether they were winning the war, what new documents they been able to retrieve from the North Vietnamese and the vietcong. In their policy advisers on what protests were taking place, where and how that was going. Unknown to the public at that time, lbj essentially, and these very days had decided he was not going to run for president again. Theres one moment in the book or returns to the secretary of state and the secretary of defense and the other members of the war council and says he decided not to do it. They try to talk him out of it. That is unfolding as these two events are. The other is his clear he has no clue how to get out of the situation. As events are about to happen he turns to his advisor and said how are we ever going to win . This book opens with a list of cast of characters, why do you do that . Because there are so many people in this book. And i knew the reader i dont the reader to feel overwhelmed because as the book unfolds you get to know which characters youre going to be following through the book. Which one serve as a role for a specific point to be made along the way. But whenever you are reading a book you say whoa its been a few chapter since that name came up he can go to the front look at the cast of characters and be refreshed. I think when you have, is this book does a few hundred characters. I didnt do it to intimidate people i did it to help them. Host and your style is to go back and forth you may talk about a personal one chapter than you will see them for a while. There people in the early chapters that come back in chapter 27. See when you started this book when . The research . Guest i started the book in year 2000 was working at the Washington Post writing about al gore and his biographical stories for the Washington Post. I came up with the concept of then, started doing some interviews in 2000, many of the key characters i meant for the first time then. Host book tv cameras and not catch up with you until your trip to vietnam which is january 2002. Guest that was or the end of reporting. My general style as i keep reporting until i write the final word. I did the bulk of my first year end a half of reporting and generator 2002 in vietnam was the last leg of that. Host im really catching up with the with the video they will see in the last part of your work for you started