Platforms you are watching us on and we will either wrap them into the discussion or save them for the qanda at the end of the event. I want everyone to know that before we get started. As i said, this of course could not be a more important or more timely conversation that we are going to have today since the death of george floyd in Police Custody last month we have seen nationwide unrest and protests not only here in america but internationally. And weve also seen a certain narrative take hold. It starts with the assumption that the only way to properly view george floyd staff is through a racial lens. In fact all encounters between the police and black suspects increasingly are viewed in this way. It assumes the behavior, typical Police Behavior towards black suspects and it assumes george floyd is a sort of black every man in america thats what happened to him happened to black people all the time, that essentially they leave everyday worried about having a violent encounter with the police. The media has run with the narrative that face is very little pushback and skepticism and it leaves us with the impression that the biggest problem based on black America Today that Law Enforcement is at the root of social inequality in america. And so we find ourselves in the middle of a National Conversation about policing. They are called to defend the police, abolish prison. There is legislation being discussed in congress would make it easier to prosecute cops and fire them. We have radicals that have taken over entire neighborhoods of a major city like seattle that include the Police Precinct that has been abandoned and these people have the mayors blessing in doing so. They are commentators not only making excuses for the riots and the looting, but cheering it on to a large extent. Whats going on here and that is the point of this event today. Weve invited some panelists to talk about that. Particularly interested in what they have to say because they fall within that Demographic Group in whose name is happening that is the young men of color. They are supposed to be the youngest beneficiary of what is being advocated in the wake of george floyd staff selected the panel and i will briefly introduce them and get started with the questions. First, we have jameel who has a Nonprofit Organization aimed at helping young people called research and analysis, graduate of Yale Law School and author of the book by young man a dangerous allure of the Violent Movement and what we can do about it. And i hope we get the chance to talk about that book. The next panelist is ralph mandeville whralphvandevelde war of legal policy at the Manhattan Institute and has written on urban crime and policing an into the criminal Justice System in general. And finally just recently from the Manhattan Institute is a graduate of Columbia University who has testified before congress about slavery reparations and hes written about it for any number of publications including the new york times, the wall street journal. Lets get started with questions, gentlemen. Ice thought i would start with you, al. With a very basic question i think a lot of people assume but i wanted to get your take on this and that is do we know that the encounter was the police were racially motivated, but it happened because he is black and we make that assumption and if not, why have so many people jumped to that conclusion . Spinnaker sounds like a difficult question but i think that the answer is a complicated. The short answer is no, i dont think we can make that assumption because as far as i have seen there just is no evidence that officer harbored racial animus that motivated his actions that day which were reprehensible but i think the reason so many people have assumed that it was racially motivated policing is a system that is both to perpetuate [inaudible] when you have an instance of misconduct like this case of george floyd, when the officer is white and the victim is black, the question is assumed is it a foregone conclusion. And as to what some of the reasons for that are i can only speculate. To obscure the facts that get in the way of the change a lot of the people have capitalized on these. This might have something to do with the narrative that maybe some activists and political types and progressive commentators want to push. I agree the short answer is we dont know if it was racially motivated. That sounds crazy to people who havent been paying attention to the full range of people paying attention but there was a white man who died in a very similar way under the knee of a Dallas Police officer for 13 minutes in 2016 and i was released on video and it didnt spark as much outrage as the george floyd incident, which you know, which leads to your question which is why is it that people view this as something that only happens to black people and the answer lies in the massive coverage by the National Media. Dozens of white people come at least a dozen sometimes several dozen unarmed white people are killed by the coptold by the cod those stories just die in the black hole of local news. They never escape and make it to the National News comes of people following the news casually understandably get the false impression that this kind of thing overwhelmingly only happens to black people and in many ways it isnt their fault because thats what the National Media has fed to them and then the question becomes why is there that coverage in the National Media, why have we heard about george floyd but almost no one knows the name of tony and the answer to that i think has something to do with a understandable sense of i can speak for myself but i think Many Americans were raised watching and re watching the videos of White Police Officers brutally holding and setting dogs on the civil rights protesters in the 60s, peaceful protesters. As that kind of mold is then printed in many ways on the countrys moral imagination and almost ingrained in our subconscious so when we see a white officer doing something to a black man, it actually hits the American Mind much differently and much more poignantly than if we sa they sa white officer doing the same thing to a white suspect or black officer doing it to a white suspect. Jamil, do you agree that the media plays a role in helping people jump to these conclusions regardless of whether all the facts have been laid out, white cop, but the suspect must be something fishy going on . What role does the press play and sort of leading people to jump to the conclusion . I do think that the media does play a role. Certainly they help drive attention ithetension in some ct of why the media has become thats narrative that is speaking to the reality and that reality is disproportionate in no way that it works in our society. I think when people see george floyd, for example, being held by a police officer, it is more likely that if it happened to george floyd because hes black and to have into a white person, and that alone, that has a genuine frustration and concern. I think a lot of black people across america no they are more likely to be stopped by the Police Ordered police and more likely to have a negative introduction than a white person. Now why that is the case i think deserves a much more nuanced conversation than the media correctly make the space for but we do need to know that is the reality comreality, but people e disproportionately experiencing Law Enforcement in this sort of way and i think the media wants certain exclamations over others on my that may be the case. Thats part of why we wanted to have the panel so why are the black encounters with police, why is it so much higher than other groups, are the Police Taking them on, or the over policing these communities, what explains this disproportionate number between the communities and Police Officers . A basic part of that is the way that its dispersed in a given geographic area. If you are in a majority black neighborhood your mark debate could likely to be exposed to Gang Violence and for your kids are going to make it home safe after going to school or going to visit their friends house and so you are calling the cops and relying on the cops to provide a stabilizing presence and Community Safety and because of that, but they were going to interact with the cops at a disproportionately higher rates. Im sure things with prejudice and bias are a factor in every other part of life, its how human beings experience the world, but the way crime is distributed in the American Cities is a big part of why the police are having more common interactions with black individuals than others. Okay, okay. Now, jamil says racism still exists. It could be playing a role here in the way communities are policed. How much of a difference do you think these reforms will make to the problem camille is talking about . And just how big the problem in the problems as i see it under a broader debate there is a toxic narrative particularly in the community that says policing is an institution and those that are reserved for black and brown people. This is extremely rare and that is true with legal or nonlethal force. And thats coming from 2018. And firing the weapons but then the nonlethal force this is not a largescale all problem the with a practical limit that we will face in the different you can make to say that because they are so overblown, there really isnt that much room for improvement. And over the last several decades this is the problem 19751 more than 220 were wounded that by 2016 it was down and none of that and that is the limit that any proposal would face to the extent it can overcome this narrative. But to pick up on what we are seeing i do agree and has been made to difficult to fire bad Police Officers and that reflects a very real concern about security and there are things we should be talking about and the support for that is the general incapacitation argument the same that it benefits society but to incapacitate to take that power away from them. And unfortunately our conversation right now does not allow us to get to that point. I dont have a ton of hope to the potential to make things better. What do you think about that . Talk about collecting more data better data or sharing more data and the Police Department has data in different ways there is no central database in terms of the behavior there is no uniform way with this legislation i know you are a data guy. If thats a real problem with the narrative being pushed and if they had better data that is a narrative we see pushed out there. But in terms of changing that conversation nationally. I am pretty aligned with ralph. There are two things. Which reforms make sense. Transparency makes a lot of sense to me. Body cams make sense to me. Perhaps changing that qualified immunity the demilitarized weapons makes sense to me but how much will that address the problem of deadly shootings of unarmed americans . And here i am rather pessimistic because we misunderstand why they happen to begin with its hard to bring them back front then from a high point that this is happening the for most gun country on planet earths when a cop pulls over a suspect the cop has a legitimate fear there is a pistol hidden in the glove compartment so that means in america when someone reaches for their wallet or their smart phone the cop will have a fear that cannot be legislated away and it has to be said that roughly 300 cops die every year and that has an effect on how american cops approach in american suspect we can do all these reforms to have a very serious rational conversation short of shooting someone in the back its very difficult to be punished as an officer we also have to manage our expectations think we probably can but i would bet all the money that i had we cannot get to a situation where there are zero places to be again country and then that is all for the good that at the end of the day policing doesnt seem to be the central problem. You said before thats where the 9 11 calls originated they have legitimate reason to be there. Which gets me to the question is policing the piece of this conversation we have right now the way to go . If they are not the central problem where would you like to see the focus of the conversation . A lot of people are paying attention right now. If you think we over emphasize the role of the police with black homicides in this country and by every the data measure i have we are doing that more than 30000 black homicides two or 3 percent involve the police then what should the focus of this conversation be . If the goal is to get our societies and cities in particular to a place they can get guns away from Law Enforcement for things like social services and Mental Health and childcare it is a necessity that Violent Crime is reduced. Its a vicious cycle where the problems that require us to invest in policing to address the core issues and how those neighborhoods in the first place. And then to readily acknowledge these are problems he cannot arrest our way out of. Over the last 25 years to have a hand on crime and have a devastating effect on these communities. There is a role for the communities to play and then i work to understand between addressing our neighborhoods and those are those that shape the narrative where we have that very real tension on the ground if you dont have to worry that the shooting has happened you think about that taking place because my mother brothers lived there then you dont have the police on your mind on a regular basis so there is a broader dimension to this if youre privileged enough not to need the police you can vilify them but if its a situation you need the police to see their immediate value then you have a more complicated worldview. As a Community Group that has emerged on this issue there is a class difference black lives matter is very out of step on these issues. At least the leadership is with the average black voter in america if this was an authentic voice for the majority of black people then joe biden would have won the primary. People do want to talk about things like family and Law Enforcement. And with the opportunities in educational reform and on the ground we already see a more complicated conversation. That is the upper class what the new class war would be the managerial class narrative. You know you have written about role models and guidance in the community simply for young black men with the culture and the influence and so forth are the young people in these communities being taught to view the police with suspicion . Is that a cultural problem . Absolutely glorification of criminality and pop culture that makes money from the art and expression of young black men and that incentivizes that for a lot of black men for that criminality on a cultural perspective if not an actual actions and behaviors so absolutely it is a problem. I wish we held people to see their cultural role to address systemic racism to the same standard as criminality in some of these neighborhoods because its heartbreaking people make billions of dollars a year and a young black men paid a price for that. Is there a danger with the over focus on policing . Is that not only of the goal is to reduce the number of black athletes but is it dangerous to do this . Could there be a backlash you have written a lot about policing in urban areas puts the danger to scapegoat Law Enforcement . The first part it feeds in the unrealistic impression the things that we saw it in the video is a regular occurrence as opposed to the aberration. In my opinion in defensively yes but people actually believe it. It sounded twice as many black responses more of those becoming victims of Police Brutality. Twice as Many Americans sociology report shows high profile cases the Police Violence black residents are less likely to report crime so the danger is it creates a wall between black and brown communities which we saw just talking about the violence numbers and the disparities it can be extremely dangerous when they are less likely to cooperate with the police to do with these problems. But then its also the reality the police might pull back which is something we have seen happening in recent years and people will say police are babies. That would be the right response if the reason for the pullback was an angry take care of it yourself kind of approach that much of it is real fear. Speaking with a few Police Officers the past week and they all expressed a real sense of insecurity. I dont know what will happen if i approach this guy and maybe i should lower my risk profile and over the long run the danger it will have this rhetorical posture that demonizes police will lead to that job be more risky and then that increases the risk profile one of the ways they calculate the alternative option. And those that have better alternative functions so we will end up doing making policing attractive to a group of people who dont have very many options so that we could on recruiting people with a less stable psychological profile and maybe that could exacerbate the problem but that they work so hard to get down to zero. So there is a real danger in my opinion radical and dangerous proposals and then pursue incarceration at any cost and that has a consequence. Killed in the summer of 2015 in chicago 24 years old standing on the street in front of her house with her one yearold daughter a car pulls up the little girl waved to the car a guy in the passenger seat opened fire hits her in