Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Hearing On Countering Domestic

CSPAN2 House Hearing On Countering Domestic Extremist Groups July 12, 2024

Affecting the end extremist. Acceleration is, including politics. Theres not something on the left, theres something on the right. Ititt, involves violence, offeng society, writingpr institutions that we ought to look at. Its incredibly relevant today with groups we look at, the principal ones that occur in peoples lives. This comes from ideology that decades old, others are relatively new. Decentralized acceleration structured militia groups. Antigovernmentle extremism is oe of the common threatsc, doesnt overlap, anti black, anti muslim, extremist into common cause with others extremist in nature. We have a collective opportunity to discuss the threat sose we cn develop an understanding of how they flourish ins our communitis and in online spaces. Weve seen horrific acts of violence recently, a man in texas arrested after streaming on Facebook Live searching for Law Enforcement officers to ambush. In june, a man california shot and killed in w protective serve officer in wounded one more. Deputy officer before being arrested. N in may, three men arrested by the fbi in nevada while reportedly on their way to inflict violence at a black lives matter protest in las vegas. A man in oklahoma arrested, machine guns, made all appeared to be connected to the movement. The list goes on and on. Its important today that we dont lose sight and other extremist groups. Look at particularly during our discussion. We will ask critical questions today. Number one, do we do about this . Law enforcement and federal government, what can and should social media do . What do we do in a collaborative way . We have a shared responsibility across the public and private sectors. The lives of Law Enforcement are on the line. Citizens who are congregating at protests are on the line. I do believe in so many ways, the future of this country is on the line so with the chair recognize Ranking Member of the subcommittee. Esther walker. On the air, my friend. Thank you, mr. Chairman. N. Theres no doubt is an ideology linked to violence like anarchy. As the committee created after 9 11, must stay focused on the jihadist threat. In these various movements we are seeing the adoption of acceleration in calls to target government institutions and Law Enforcement to committing acts of violence to create further unrest. We see this concept and White Supremacy groups and while environmental environments. Ideologies result in propaganda and misinformation and conspiracies as well as celebration of violence. I should start by expressing my sincere condolences of dave or underwood, protective security officer. They were both murdered in the line of late may early june. I want to express hope for the recovery of the officers entered the suspects have been arrested in the fbi is inducting anss investigation including possible support for the movement which is an acceleration. We also must review others, these attacks are on all americans. Groups like antitheft and i know is used to be a conservative talking points but its not. The damage they are doing, a reporter in my office can still see the injuries and theres a a consistent effort by antifa to lay siege to government buildings. The police chiefte said millions of dollars specifically in overtime security as well as damage done. These are the kinds of things we must stand together regardless of politics. Po in seattle, according effort to deny the antifa movement, we need to move forward now and exhorting organization, we understand that but is a movement. Call for violent riding. The peoplean involved are part f movements. Integrate all these groups and any other Extremist Movements must be condemned. Thats why this hearing is o crucial today. The violent extremists on all sides are attempting to hijack legitimate protests and interrupt debate on institution reforms. Some are targeting protesters, some Police Officers andd ee analyzing government buildings and others seeking to create autonomous ones. Ten violence and restore order. I look forward to your testimony and i yield back by time. Subcommittee will operate necording to the guidelines. The chair recognizes the full committee, an opening statement. The chair recognizes Ranking Member, gentleman from oklahoma. Will recognize you for an opening statement. Thank you very much. Thank you for convening this hearing today and for your leadership. This committee is known for following the threats wherever they may lead. Today that brings us here. This hearing provides us with an omopportunity to talk about the emerging threat of anti extremist. Todays hearing is the first congressional hearing to focus specifically on the emerging threat of acceleration and i applaud chairman rose for examining this. Its important that members and the American Public hear from these experts today to understand the emergent threats. Recent attacks and threat from individuals affiliated with the movement. This coalition of extremists prevent an immediate danger to Law Enforcement and american people. As they share in written testimony, this movement is complex and requires new ones understanding. The network appears to be antigovernment, constantly changing and drawing from the different extremists ideologist. The Common Thread is a desire to accelerate the second civil war, that means many of them are driven to commit violence. Its imperative the department of Homeland Security and other agents are immediately devotingc resources to confront these emerging threats. Understand this is a difficult issue but its not acceptable for dhs to remain in the dark. Law enforcement officials remain a target of these individuals and extremist which means its even more urgent for dhs to produce and disseminate information for state and local lawre enforcement to stay aheadf the resources and attention must be appropriately allocated. We need to follow the threat, we shouldnt be swayed by political winds. Property damage and any and all violence linked to antifa should be condemned. Public reporting and records, the government owned reporting right wing extremist post urgent and legal threat to americans. We areth here, we will hear tody about the threat for americans. I look forward to the discussion on these movements utilizing all platforms to their advantage. Its a major concern of mine of the last congress and one of the reasons i introduced hr 4782 for National Commission on Online Platform and home and securityg act, the commission would seek to understand how extremists in online and acts of violence, this bipartisan piece of legislation voted out of this committee in october 2019 and my colleagues and commerce committee, the committee to shed light on how social norms are exploited and hold them accountable when they fail to enforce policies to combat extremists. I appreciate the witnesses joining us today and i think chairman rose for convening this hearing. Thank you. I welcome our panel of extraordinary witnesses. Our first witness, extremists of the George Washington university. Cofounder and executive Vice President of the global two decades of experience fighting extremism including Poverty Center and intelligence. The third and final witness, jack donahue, protection and resiliency of initiatives of the new York City Police department he brings an experience from his time as a leader at nypd. Thank you for your service in new york city clement. I believe in the history of the world so thank you for your extraordinary services. Without objection, the witnesses will be in the record. You have five minutes. Thank you. Establish members of the subcommittee, thank you for giving the opportunity to testify today. Im here to talk about the militant segment of the antigovernment Extremist Movement, people who want to change the country by force. Like any large movement, the minimum following the 2016 election, White Supremacy groups arrive militant extremist joined the Movement Forward relatively quiet. In general, they approve administration and Anti Government rage debated for time. However, conversations about gun control laws, stress from covid19 pandemic, mainstreaming of the state and anti vaccine conspiracy theories, high unemployment rates, civil unrest and major cities, the extreme divisiveness hiding the upcoming election triggered the militant groups. The movement is not monolithic. For example, Police Officers, activeduty military and military veterans have shifted from on sandbox from federal agencies to providing armed support to Small Businesses violating state home pandemic borders. Armed guard to protect neighborhoods from violence. 3 of organization is a hybrid between military militia the Group Believes the only use 3 of americans to band together for americans. Theres no central leadership or structure so despite their large numbers, it kept them from becoming a significant force. The private military militias are much smaller segments of the overall movement. These groups of armed training, relatively organized structure even though many states prohibit their activities, they have this. The idea the second American Revolution armed patriots rise up and overthrow government has been the dream of militant extreme as for buckets. They renamed it later turned c into loud and clear. Hawaiian shirts under their body armor and weapons in a bottle. Militant copy and foremost, tribalist separating those in from those who werent most members, the goal is to hate government and attack police. Even the majors players react y removing legs. For example, im worried any attempt to pass and control legislation would trigger more than one significant event. This includes red flag laws and legislation as a foot in the door leading to confiscation. Another potential issue is the covid19 pandemic which is placing significant stress on extremist groups. The return to lockdown status, and concerned small groups will lash out violently against government, Law Enforcement, medical professionals, essential workers, contact tracers and medical infrastructure. Driven by conspiracy theories have turned to armed resistance and rallies and have taken them to Business Owners who want to violate state home orders. Michigan has been one hot spot and in may, the state had to cancel a legislate session because of armed threats. Im concerned the upcoming election will spark one or more violent attempts of the president has a reelection. Im concerned there will be a shootout at one or more of the black lives matter protests. There are too many fans of these events into many groups with the same goal. You canan find those into the street to protect police businesses from antigua and enforcing matter against the police. Ti adding the National Guard and influence of agents, agitators and white supremacist groups along with the growing number of leftwing listings on guard, theres a potential straight war brewing militant groups of individuals willing to shoot, random police and protesters to get the waren started so they cn use chaos to accelerate their own plans for revolution. The groups will need a catalyst for big events, theyth need a wrinkle that can be the next big one. Some will do what they have to to force this. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your testimony. We will now recognize mister gunning who. Five minutes. Thank you very much. I am john donahue, fellow of the Millis Center from the Police Department the opinions today are my own. Public safety concerns and specifically challenges for Law Enforcement raised by the growing phenomenonn militia extremism and power of online movements to influence funds action domestically. These are promoting ideas and opinions documented, the platforms are ambiguous. In the u. S. , weth cherish Constitutional Rights for freedom of speech and assembly and social media embraced by many sharing ideas and opinions on any topic at any time. Was recently observable in social media data is that theresvo an exponential growth and participation in the cyber social domain, revolutionary extremist beings at either ends of the ideological spectrum. The extremists have Law Enforcement squarely in the sights. The early stages of social media was used effectively to motivate youth and isolated advices. No recruitment started those people on the social media platforms and gradually move to communication. Should criminal conversation from authorities. The same cycles happening domestically with militia acceleration of movement on the far right and left. A reporter coauthored in may of thisis year with the network and Research Shows on social media, become viral and golf. Di revolutionary ideas in public i often inside jokes using the word ghost. Codewords for second revolution is an example of that far right militia movement. Protests over the pandemic lockdowns played out there inside joke wearing hawaiian shirts in the center of few american cities. Names shared on the message board Law Enforcement, encouraging a violence for the video gaming. While it appears online malicious fear inhabited by far right extremists are not alone and they showed online and Police Messaging another parlor to social media spaces where they seem exponential growth in unrestt recent period of in america. His antigovernment, anti Police Messages and facebook and twitter. Names advocating the murder of Law Enforcement andin slogans found on the internet used by the far left were on buildings all across america. Names protesters that can be used as tactical for violent actions are being widely circulated on social media. What the parent, for purpose of ideology is that assault the enforcement that occurred during recent civil unrest promoted the themes in the names and slogans. Its not usual for police to be the subject of protests, its inherent tension between Law Enforcement, because police are the most visible representatives of government and here, police are protesting against us. We are sworn to protect the rights regardless of whatever controversy may be no matter how controversial it may seem with limited exceptions. Another right is to bear arms. Some permit open carry and others dont. Both have withstood scrutiny with some exceptions. T i like these rights because in real life on the street, or tens of thousands of people aret assembled, explaining finer points of constitutional law doesnt work. Thats why police are generally at a disadvantage and specifically challenge when they become the targets of protests as more recently, observed on the right and left. Intelligence gathering is bringing its own tension Law Enforcement needs information for the safety, that is smart government and our safeguards in place to prevent over reach. Law enforcement needs and those open source. With one bigen assumption,te it comes to communication, zero visibility into those channels and thats what tactics and opportunities for compensation are shared. Lawenforcement has a tough task with focusing protesters in the best of times. When protesters arrive in our caring semi automatic weapons, stakes grow exponentially, acceleration and opportunities to amplify their message through direct compensation of police. What can be done . Despite social media efforts to minimize availability of extremist messages, they persist. Social Media Companies are not in a position to identify those. Law enforcement must remain vigilant and identify before they act. The timeframe is remarkably short. The last line of defense against extremists who mobilize the violence, it may be their own lives because they become the ultimate culprit. Om extremist online movements are not predictable, the time for acknowledging and rapidly working to preserve Civil Societies on it and i thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Summarize your statement for five minutes. Thank you very much for inviting me to testify today. Its a great honor. Ive been researching hate groups and extremists for more than 20 years. Mo today, the utmost importance. Weve already heard here a global and increasingly violent Extremist Movement of a mix of White Supremacists, neonazis and groups like the little boys. All are interested in bringing it for the collapse of democracy through violence. The accelerators, the extremists are sending hateful ideologies for growing and connecting internationally in a way never before possible. It can be laid at the feet of thehao Tech Companies. The fbi considers violence from white supremaciston groups is te same footing as those Foreign Terrorists like isis to dhs, state department, Government Agencies and independent experts all agree far right extremism and acceleration is variant metastasizing problems this country and others will be dealing with for the long term. The tragedies in pittsburgh, el paso and Christchurch New Zealand are testament to the devastation inspired by these movements. Right now, movements are taking advantage of the pandemic, both to spread hate about those theyve blamed for covid19 and attack Facebook Live<\/a> searching for Law Enforcement<\/a> officers to ambush. In june, a man california shot and killed in w protective serve officer in wounded one more. Deputy officer before being arrested. N in may, three men arrested by the fbi in nevada while reportedly on their way to inflict violence at a black lives matter protest in las vegas. A man in oklahoma arrested, machine guns, made all appeared to be connected to the movement. The list goes on and on. Its important today that we dont lose sight and other extremist groups. Look at particularly during our discussion. We will ask critical questions today. Number one, do we do about this . Law enforcement and federal government, what can and should social media do . What do we do in a collaborative way . We have a shared responsibility across the public and private sectors. The lives of Law Enforcement<\/a> are on the line. Citizens who are congregating at protests are on the line. I do believe in so many ways, the future of this country is on the line so with the chair recognize Ranking Member<\/a> of the subcommittee. Esther walker. On the air, my friend. Thank you, mr. Chairman. N. Theres no doubt is an ideology linked to violence like anarchy. As the committee created after 9 11, must stay focused on the jihadist threat. In these various movements we are seeing the adoption of acceleration in calls to target government institutions and Law Enforcement<\/a> to committing acts of violence to create further unrest. We see this concept and White Supremacy<\/a> groups and while environmental environments. Ideologies result in propaganda and misinformation and conspiracies as well as celebration of violence. I should start by expressing my sincere condolences of dave or underwood, protective security officer. They were both murdered in the line of late may early june. I want to express hope for the recovery of the officers entered the suspects have been arrested in the fbi is inducting anss investigation including possible support for the movement which is an acceleration. We also must review others, these attacks are on all americans. Groups like antitheft and i know is used to be a conservative talking points but its not. The damage they are doing, a reporter in my office can still see the injuries and theres a a consistent effort by antifa to lay siege to government buildings. The police chiefte said millions of dollars specifically in overtime security as well as damage done. These are the kinds of things we must stand together regardless of politics. Po in seattle, according effort to deny the antifa movement, we need to move forward now and exhorting organization, we understand that but is a movement. Call for violent riding. The peoplean involved are part f movements. Integrate all these groups and any other Extremist Movement<\/a>s must be condemned. Thats why this hearing is o crucial today. The violent extremists on all sides are attempting to hijack legitimate protests and interrupt debate on institution reforms. Some are targeting protesters, some Police Officers<\/a> andd ee analyzing government buildings and others seeking to create autonomous ones. Ten violence and restore order. I look forward to your testimony and i yield back by time. Subcommittee will operate necording to the guidelines. The chair recognizes the full committee, an opening statement. The chair recognizes Ranking Member<\/a>, gentleman from oklahoma. Will recognize you for an opening statement. Thank you very much. Thank you for convening this hearing today and for your leadership. This committee is known for following the threats wherever they may lead. Today that brings us here. This hearing provides us with an omopportunity to talk about the emerging threat of anti extremist. Todays hearing is the first congressional hearing to focus specifically on the emerging threat of acceleration and i applaud chairman rose for examining this. Its important that members and the American Public<\/a> hear from these experts today to understand the emergent threats. Recent attacks and threat from individuals affiliated with the movement. This coalition of extremists prevent an immediate danger to Law Enforcement<\/a> and american people. As they share in written testimony, this movement is complex and requires new ones understanding. The network appears to be antigovernment, constantly changing and drawing from the different extremists ideologist. The Common Thread<\/a> is a desire to accelerate the second civil war, that means many of them are driven to commit violence. Its imperative the department of Homeland Security<\/a> and other agents are immediately devotingc resources to confront these emerging threats. Understand this is a difficult issue but its not acceptable for dhs to remain in the dark. Law enforcement officials remain a target of these individuals and extremist which means its even more urgent for dhs to produce and disseminate information for state and local lawre enforcement to stay aheadf the resources and attention must be appropriately allocated. We need to follow the threat, we shouldnt be swayed by political winds. Property damage and any and all violence linked to antifa should be condemned. Public reporting and records, the government owned reporting right wing extremist post urgent and legal threat to americans. We areth here, we will hear tody about the threat for americans. I look forward to the discussion on these movements utilizing all platforms to their advantage. Its a major concern of mine of the last congress and one of the reasons i introduced hr 4782 for National Commission<\/a> on Online Platform<\/a> and home and securityg act, the commission would seek to understand how extremists in online and acts of violence, this bipartisan piece of legislation voted out of this committee in october 2019 and my colleagues and commerce committee, the committee to shed light on how social norms are exploited and hold them accountable when they fail to enforce policies to combat extremists. I appreciate the witnesses joining us today and i think chairman rose for convening this hearing. Thank you. I welcome our panel of extraordinary witnesses. Our first witness, extremists of the George Washington<\/a> university. Cofounder and executive Vice President<\/a> of the global two decades of experience fighting extremism including Poverty Center<\/a> and intelligence. The third and final witness, jack donahue, protection and resiliency of initiatives of the new York City Police<\/a> department he brings an experience from his time as a leader at nypd. Thank you for your service in new york city clement. I believe in the history of the world so thank you for your extraordinary services. Without objection, the witnesses will be in the record. You have five minutes. Thank you. Establish members of the subcommittee, thank you for giving the opportunity to testify today. Im here to talk about the militant segment of the antigovernment Extremist Movement<\/a>, people who want to change the country by force. Like any large movement, the minimum following the 2016 election, White Supremacy<\/a> groups arrive militant extremist joined the Movement Forward<\/a> relatively quiet. In general, they approve administration and Anti Government<\/a> rage debated for time. However, conversations about gun control laws, stress from covid19 pandemic, mainstreaming of the state and anti vaccine conspiracy theories, high unemployment rates, civil unrest and major cities, the extreme divisiveness hiding the upcoming election triggered the militant groups. The movement is not monolithic. For example, Police Officers<\/a>, activeduty military and military veterans have shifted from on sandbox from federal agencies to providing armed support to Small Businesses<\/a> violating state home pandemic borders. Armed guard to protect neighborhoods from violence. 3 of organization is a hybrid between military militia the Group Believes<\/a> the only use 3 of americans to band together for americans. Theres no central leadership or structure so despite their large numbers, it kept them from becoming a significant force. The private military militias are much smaller segments of the overall movement. These groups of armed training, relatively organized structure even though many states prohibit their activities, they have this. The idea the second American Revolution<\/a> armed patriots rise up and overthrow government has been the dream of militant extreme as for buckets. They renamed it later turned c into loud and clear. Hawaiian shirts under their body armor and weapons in a bottle. Militant copy and foremost, tribalist separating those in from those who werent most members, the goal is to hate government and attack police. Even the majors players react y removing legs. For example, im worried any attempt to pass and control legislation would trigger more than one significant event. This includes red flag laws and legislation as a foot in the door leading to confiscation. Another potential issue is the covid19 pandemic which is placing significant stress on extremist groups. The return to lockdown status, and concerned small groups will lash out violently against government, Law Enforcement<\/a>, medical professionals, essential workers, contact tracers and medical infrastructure. Driven by conspiracy theories have turned to armed resistance and rallies and have taken them to Business Owners<\/a> who want to violate state home orders. Michigan has been one hot spot and in may, the state had to cancel a legislate session because of armed threats. Im concerned the upcoming election will spark one or more violent attempts of the president has a reelection. Im concerned there will be a shootout at one or more of the black lives matter protests. There are too many fans of these events into many groups with the same goal. You canan find those into the street to protect police businesses from antigua and enforcing matter against the police. Ti adding the National Guard<\/a> and influence of agents, agitators and white supremacist groups along with the growing number of leftwing listings on guard, theres a potential straight war brewing militant groups of individuals willing to shoot, random police and protesters to get the waren started so they cn use chaos to accelerate their own plans for revolution. The groups will need a catalyst for big events, theyth need a wrinkle that can be the next big one. Some will do what they have to to force this. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your testimony. We will now recognize mister gunning who. Five minutes. Thank you very much. I am john donahue, fellow of the Millis Center<\/a> from the Police Department<\/a> the opinions today are my own. Public safety concerns and specifically challenges for Law Enforcement<\/a> raised by the growing phenomenonn militia extremism and power of online movements to influence funds action domestically. These are promoting ideas and opinions documented, the platforms are ambiguous. In the u. S. , weth cherish Constitutional Rights<\/a> for freedom of speech and assembly and social media embraced by many sharing ideas and opinions on any topic at any time. Was recently observable in social media data is that theresvo an exponential growth and participation in the cyber social domain, revolutionary extremist beings at either ends of the ideological spectrum. The extremists have Law Enforcement<\/a> squarely in the sights. The early stages of social media was used effectively to motivate youth and isolated advices. No recruitment started those people on the social media platforms and gradually move to communication. Should criminal conversation from authorities. The same cycles happening domestically with militia acceleration of movement on the far right and left. A reporter coauthored in may of thisis year with the network and Research Shows<\/a> on social media, become viral and golf. Di revolutionary ideas in public i often inside jokes using the word ghost. Codewords for second revolution is an example of that far right militia movement. Protests over the pandemic lockdowns played out there inside joke wearing hawaiian shirts in the center of few american cities. Names shared on the message board Law Enforcement<\/a>, encouraging a violence for the video gaming. While it appears online malicious fear inhabited by far right extremists are not alone and they showed online and Police Messaging<\/a> another parlor to social media spaces where they seem exponential growth in unrestt recent period of in america. His antigovernment, anti Police Messages<\/a> and facebook and twitter. Names advocating the murder of Law Enforcement<\/a> andin slogans found on the internet used by the far left were on buildings all across america. Names protesters that can be used as tactical for violent actions are being widely circulated on social media. What the parent, for purpose of ideology is that assault the enforcement that occurred during recent civil unrest promoted the themes in the names and slogans. Its not usual for police to be the subject of protests, its inherent tension between Law Enforcement<\/a>, because police are the most visible representatives of government and here, police are protesting against us. We are sworn to protect the rights regardless of whatever controversy may be no matter how controversial it may seem with limited exceptions. Another right is to bear arms. Some permit open carry and others dont. Both have withstood scrutiny with some exceptions. T i like these rights because in real life on the street, or tens of thousands of people aret assembled, explaining finer points of constitutional law doesnt work. Thats why police are generally at a disadvantage and specifically challenge when they become the targets of protests as more recently, observed on the right and left. Intelligence gathering is bringing its own tension Law Enforcement<\/a> needs information for the safety, that is smart government and our safeguards in place to prevent over reach. Law enforcement needs and those open source. With one bigen assumption,te it comes to communication, zero visibility into those channels and thats what tactics and opportunities for compensation are shared. Lawenforcement has a tough task with focusing protesters in the best of times. When protesters arrive in our caring semi automatic weapons, stakes grow exponentially, acceleration and opportunities to amplify their message through direct compensation of police. What can be done . Despite social media efforts to minimize availability of extremist messages, they persist. Social Media Companies<\/a> are not in a position to identify those. Law enforcement must remain vigilant and identify before they act. The timeframe is remarkably short. The last line of defense against extremists who mobilize the violence, it may be their own lives because they become the ultimate culprit. Om extremist online movements are not predictable, the time for acknowledging and rapidly working to preserve Civil Societies<\/a> on it and i thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Summarize your statement for five minutes. Thank you very much for inviting me to testify today. Its a great honor. Ive been researching hate groups and extremists for more than 20 years. Mo today, the utmost importance. Weve already heard here a global and increasingly violent Extremist Movement<\/a> of a mix of White Supremacists<\/a>, neonazis and groups like the little boys. All are interested in bringing it for the collapse of democracy through violence. The accelerators, the extremists are sending hateful ideologies for growing and connecting internationally in a way never before possible. It can be laid at the feet of thehao Tech Companies<\/a>. The fbi considers violence from white supremaciston groups is te same footing as those Foreign Terrorists<\/a> like isis to dhs, state department, Government Agencies<\/a> and independent experts all agree far right extremism and acceleration is variant metastasizing problems this country and others will be dealing with for the long term. The tragedies in pittsburgh, el paso and Christchurch New Zealand<\/a> are testament to the devastation inspired by these movements. Right now, movements are taking advantage of the pandemic, both to spread hate about those theyve blamed for covid19 and attack Peaceful Protesters<\/a> and Police Officers<\/a>. Its likely thest violence testifies the november president ial elections. Descriptions of groups and Movement Overall<\/a> are laid out in detail on my written testimony so id like to take the opportunity to offer recommendations. Nothing. This movements violent activity if we dont accept the Online Platform<\/a>s driving extremism. Much of hitler using the new technology of the real put his views into german families homes, now its different today. Perpetrators of terrorist incidents were exposed to violent extremist ideologies almost entirely online other than the real world. Its risen substantially, all forms of extremism by left islamic. Online platforms and recruitment occurs, plans are hatched and strategies are sophisticated, event planning, inside jokes and so on. Yet theres a double standard and how Online Platform<\/a>s treat content produced by White Supremacists<\/a> versus islamic extremists is. The Global Internet<\/a> formed a counterterrorism and practiced by the Tech Companies<\/a>. Inconceivable social media platforms to ally is propaganda thats exactly whats happening. Tech companies begin to take it seriously and ramped up enforcement. It hasnt been enough. Civil rights on it, anti muslim sentiment and hate groups using a platform. My new organization found dozens of youtube videos posted by the International White<\/a> nationalist network that inspired the Christ Church<\/a> and they were monetized, bringing revenue from businesses ouand unbelievably campaign ads. Even after notifying youtube, most is still up. If we are to strip stop the spread of violence, social Online Platform<\/a>s must design adequate policies and enforce them. Proposed by chairman rose, helped establish a baseline data showing the each of them to push the platforms to do better. I cofounded this it was adopted. We need to address extremism in the military. There are way too many troops and veterans in these movements. You cant train people to kill and unleash them on the public. Isen it comes to Law Enforcement<\/a> priorities, passage of the domestic Terrorism Data<\/a> act proposed by chairman thompson would help us understand how officialsmo prioritize combating these movements. His White Supremacists<\/a> extremism review act would direct them to disseminate terrorist threat assessment as foreign violent extremist groups. I would suggest that we be very careful in providing legal authorities to Law Enforcement<\/a> before understanding of the impact might be. Too often when we increase the powers of federal Law Enforcement<\/a>, they were used as promised but against marginalized population to violate super flights. In control measures likee banning the guns could be useful here. Id like to say thank you for taking these issues seriously and for having me here today. I think all the witnesses for their extraordinary testimony, i remind subcommitteeth members tt they each have five minutes to question the panel. I recognize myself for questions now. I want to move away all the noise and get a sense from you, which you measure this threat against jihadists right now and where do you see the worst Case Scenario<\/a> . Where you see it going if we do not act . Clearly from my testimony, i raise comparisons between violent d hottie, a recruitment and techniques we used to motivate people to violence. What we see is the motivation of violence can happen at any moment. The concern we have is the violent and triggering events that have happened across the u. S. Go to show that the power of whats happening online and the power of the messages are so avirulent that they make sense to certain people and thats where we need to have the ability to have visibility into those networks and the people who are motivating to violence. My biggest concerns are essentially twofold, one is this chincendiary situation at the recent protest where most people are heavily armed, easily triggered and we seem Police Officers<\/a> shot dead and its happening in las vegas. Mass casualty attacks like we saw in el paso and pittsburgh, the list could go on. Its an international problem. Thats what im most concerned about. White supremacists who have come to believe we need to use terrorism, violence to bring down the systems of government and democracies to stop a white genocide. Its motivated most of the mass casualty attacks and its not going to go away. Demographics are shifting in the western world and thats what they feel as a threat and if we dont intercept how the propaganda is spread on mainstream platforms where it allows for recruiting, im afraid the next church could be around the corner anywhere, here or abroad. Irn think we are facing an uphill battle here. Got social media platforms where people can force propaganda, they are actively recruiting younger male members. From there, they move into private groups and from there, they move into other places and then they cherry pick and move into places like signal. Trying to police this, i think it would be impossible. If you got rid of the bigger propaganda on facebook, you put a dent in it. I dont think theres a large risk of these groups ever coming together and forming a private army but am concerned about terrorism. But my earlier testimony that protesters are at risk, Police Officers<\/a> are at risk and possibly infrastructure. I know in las vegas, one of the plots was to take down the grid, the power grid during a protest so they could then fire on protesters, some protesters and chaos will be horrible. I think theres this mass casualty is anis issue, i dont think it will be largescale or coordinated but ith think the possibility for someone to have learned for example from the las vegas shooters, they shoot down into a crowd, a its a big concern. Thank you. Mr. Walker. You are up. Thank you. I will start with mr. Donohue, if i could. With over three decades of nypd experience, you are uniquelyes qualified to talk about why Law Enforcement<\/a> is a common target of violence extremist groups can add to the testimony about why this is the case . The impact it has on Law Enforcement<\/a> and how the current environment is impacting Law Enforcement<\/a> and their families . Thank you very much. In addition to what i said in my remarks and testimony, the effect on Law Enforcement<\/a> is great. Weve seen are the attacks directly to be sensational, to indicate the true intention is to attack the most visible arm of government which is police and that impact on Law Enforcement<\/a> over the last month and a half or so has been dramatic. Theres always a concern both from tiring out, how can they continue to respond to repeating negative attacks on Law Enforcement<\/a>, whether just the physical or emotional, it takes out on Police Officers<\/a> and sheriffs around the country. Through long hours and being exposed repeatedly to the negative media attention. The reason is because Police Officers<\/a> sheriffs Law Enforcement<\/a> are the most visible representatives of the government and we always as an arm of whomever is being protested against most important, police. You mentioned upcomingpo research on leftwing groups and anarchists. Is there anything you can tell us about this work . Are you looking at violence linked to thehe various militia groups or extremists occurring over the past fewew months . I dont want to tip my hand before the research is complete but i said what i said in my written remarks in my testimonye that has been an exponential growth in both left and anarchists social media participation. Anti police and in the government. A question i want to go to, you are worried about your terminology from legislation, any legislation that passed or if the election did not reelect president trump, you are concerned of various levels of civil unrest . Is it something youre seeing from your research or can you unpack that for me a little bit . Sure, those are two different issues. Gun control and reelection of trump, this is a hot issue for antigovernment extremism for decades. One of the factors thatne pushed them to move forward with restriction on assault rifles. Its one of the few things they can all agree on. One of the few things that can bring them altogether. The proposed legislation in virginia at the beginning of the year and a gun rally to protest it. Ordinarily a rally with guns two to 500 people, 22000 its a hot issue and most grown owners violence, there is a government extremists in the world, this is going to happen, im going to unleash. Issue, a lot of these guys have been pleased trump, we can see and they say theyre going to continue and they have talked about civil war they do not continue. Is there anything you see that would expedite this . All of this is the direct target of Law Enforcement<\/a>. How canho we show support for lw enforcement as they face the challenges and additional training tools will they need . First of all, we should understand these movements, militias and so on, after years of targeting Law Enforcement<\/a>, they kill dozens of Law Enforcement<\/a> officials across the awu. S. It has to be understood, Law Enforcement<\/a> is viewed as the armed of the government and the first levels of attack. O they are in a precarious position when it comes to these movements. We should understand that and support the difficult work you have to doo here and the threats Law Enforcement<\/a> base. Two officers were killed in california recently during l,Racial Justice<\/a> protests. That first off. When it comes to Law Enforcement<\/a> dealing with these threats, there needs to be a lot of enhancingtu authorities for the. People out there are calling for domestic terrorism, for example proposals and the chairman here about applying Foreign Terrorist Organization<\/a> and designation to International Rights<\/a> of Premises Networks<\/a> that allow Law Enforcement<\/a> to use other tools than they do right now to combat this spread. These are avenues that should be investigated, i do worry deeply about civil rights implications if the tools are used in the right way andnd thats why my written testimony talks about the need for test study. But it should be discussed and on the table. Thank you. I am over time. Well come back to get responses and answers from other panelists. I recommend i recognize chairman, thank you for your extraordinary leadership. Thank you very much. Witnesses for exploit testimony also. One of the challenges weve been working with is how do we get various platforms to assume and enhance responsibility for managing content, respecting civil rights and civil liberti liberties . Some of the things we see being pushed out further enhances militias and other extremists to care for their message. I guess ill talk to each witness, to what extent should we hold those companies responsible for the content on their various platforms . Chief, if you want to start off, then ms. Burch. Enhance responsibility for social Media Companies<\/a>, its interesting when you make that up, obviously my testimony, i speak about the value of the power of socialbo media platfors to serve as a opportunity to share ideas and free speech. The speech thats being shared on a number of social media platforms obviously goes to provoke assaults we are seeing taking place on Law Enforcement<\/a> and jeopardizing others not involved in protests. I think the extent to which social Media Companies<\/a> placed into positions to monitor that speech and asked the communities, social Media Communities<\/a> to help with platforms has grown somewhat in the right direction. However, its a game of walkable. To reach those extremists speech and or videos that you see being shown and means being shown offering the content of what other people are saying and amplifying negative messages becomes a complication and part of it is really empowering the communities that are on the platforms themselves in coordination with the companys, to police them eternally. Its not a question of whether Law Enforcement<\/a> can do that, thats not possible. The number varies for the people using it, its got to fall a little bit on them as well as the companies. Thank you. I should have mentioned, your plan to look into it, i apologize. The process has gone on here for too long now. Civil rights organizations, screaming and yelling and criticizing Tech Companies<\/a> and public and having incremental moves to improve the situation when itl comes to White Supremacy<\/a>, i believe its goingg to take a lot more than that to Clean Companies<\/a> up. They then find it has major problems as well as others, this strategy, as much as its Green Companies<\/a> a little ways, its not enough. Id suggest congress account for how the terms of service and how they are enforcing because most of them claim not to monetize the content or host a lot of aspects of White Supremacy<\/a> and yet, they keep binding it and we keep finding it so much that facebook has dozens of neonazi bands on the system recently so i suggest its time for congress to use its investigative powers in some way to Call Companies<\/a> to account, ask about procedures, what they are doing and how and it models with the European Union<\/a> has done which is create monitoring exercises for outside actors look at whats going on with hate content and then they push the Tech Companies<\/a> to do better. Something like that would be good. He shouldnt be up to civil rights organizations that are small and underfunded to have to play this role in our society. Its simply asking too much. Thank you. I will second that. One problem is these chase the news so theres a interruption of news then facebook comes in. The problem is, the news doesnt often know whats going on in private groups and direct messages and even some of the public agents, i spend a lot of time developing contacts in this world, i can get into the private groups. What they post is shockingly bad because the news is not in thete private groups, they dont report it so facebook left it. I use facebook of as an example but violent offense, the first place i go is facebook. Whos laughing about it, who said they did that wrong, we can do i better . Im going to go to facebook first. The blue group isnt really of movement, its a way of talking, it is jargon. They came from other extremist usually on facebook. They might have been militia or white support is a group, they take up somewhere and hawaiian shirts and yet theyar are treatd as a a separate movement. You are ignoring the underlying areas they came from. 551,000 followers, they say violent things in the comment. I can report itic to facebook ad ive never had one deleted. They are quite explicit. I report them and nothing happens. List is little attention paid to social media, there have been sent up to do anything at all. Its not really up to civil Rights Groups<\/a> or even theso news to monitor all of these things, there has to be an external group, to keep an eye on it. Which will concerning on our part because as you said, as long as im making money off this product, its hard to pull it back. If you remember, we asked a question about how much of your revenue stream is devoted to managing content x its almost like i dont believe you asked that question. All we kind of dos if youre serious about it and you speak with your resources, i think without having government come in and run a private business, i think we have an obligation to the public to make sure these companies cant monetize hate and other things and claim free speech as a reason for not doing anything so thank you very much. Youve been gracious with your time and id yield back. Thank you very much. Now i recognize you from michigan. Thank you for having this hearing. I appreciate it. I am from mid michigan and the issue of extremism and hate groups, instances and incidences with the hate groups has been on the rise. Recentlyly from the coronavirus lockdown, weve had significant repeated protests in my district in michigan, protesting on all sides, the lockdown that our governor put in place but also in response to the killing of georgesp floyd and we seen a fourfold increase in michigan in the past year end a half in instances of hate whether its graffiti, violence, etc. One of the things im concerned about is since the lockdown started, we seen a number of groups, 27 groups present in michigan in one on the rise as cowboys and i was wondering if you could speak to this group, they are putting signs on their cars, they are wearing vests in a discussion here about whether they are a hate group but talk about that hate group and what you know. I would have toou defer, i do not know themd specifically so perhaps one of my fellow panelists do. Id be happy to talk about them. I was working at the lawe cent, we added that list to our groups of hate groups. Largely on the basis of ugly anti muslim. They are a forerunner to the activism we are seeing in the bungalow boys, its militant, a lot of inside jokes, a particular kind of look and theo are showing up at places like these protest movements and theres something to be concerned about. The Canadian Military<\/a> this week and it members for being part of them. That gives you a sense of how seriously another government is the organization. I will say, i think the problem right now for the violent seems to be people connected to that and i think theres like seven different ones involving them, six or seven involving them. It could have led to a terrible situation like what they might have pulled off in las vegas so it would focus on them for. So very specifically, march 31 protest instead of the police location, it was in response to the George Floyd Murder<\/a> but there was a a number of men and hawaiian shirts who showed up at the protest. They were photographed at the scene. What we expect since weve seen them on the ground here. The problem with them is they are not that movement. You can have them that are white supremacist and want to harm the protesters and you can have a larger group anti police, and they are exciting. George floyd protests, you could have them shooting each other. Being able to see them in a hawaiian shirt, you cant prejudge what they want to accomplish. If you could talk, in my ofstrict, the local fbi and attorney general because of the rise of instants of hate in michigan generally and in my district, the talk about this escalation, we see groups talkingal online and graffiti ad nonviolent incidents and how we step up that ladder. Talk about trends in the time on that. Talking about how people are recruited online what we are talking about is the nature of memes, people online are creating and sharing but when people modify and shift their dialogue from what was something that may have been an inside joke or something thats funny and then start showing things more violent and to conduct since incidences were recently where police were involved, is to be some terms, ahab is one of them but that turned into viral memes about how you turn it into something that shows even more violence in one was the term itself means all caps are pastors but then it turned into police cars on fire and it morphed in the name so you can see how the terminology and visuals of the more recent unrest go towards modifying and amplifying a message of violence. Lets have happens. Thank you. Im out of time. A round of questioning. Thank you very much. I am sorry, i hope you can hear and see me. Something youve experienced a covid19, this is an important hearing and i thank you so much for holding it. Weve seen these intrusions and opposition to the vietnam war and other incidences weve indulged in. Im interested in asking the witnesses if they would show me the ultimate result of not dealingat with these groups who can characterize important protests or people are protesting from their heart and believes in this country, from their belief in democracy, belief in people changing, load be the fight of the nation without addressing these particular elements directly . When i say directly, legislative, continuous oversight like this committee is doing and i ask each witness to provide their response. I particularly speak about these groups that have been known to do this in other areas of the history of the u. S. We will start with you. The end result, we all believe in constitutional democracy and the ability to protest with righteous rage is important but this is petitioning the government. What we are seeing in saying that what we are seeing is violence coming out of peaceful protests were being served at peaceful protests where they are petitioning the government for change andypes of acceleration is pertinent. And intent on occupation, whereas the righteous ragee that has shown that we can have change in government where it is appropriate as opposed to violent revolution is what we are talking about and that is where Police Become<\/a> in the headlines. We need to learn from our past and we need to learn from our stakes and move beyond thatto ad there iske a path forward but it is not to violent insurrection. The spirit, hello . Yes, thank you. If we dobe not do something to address the spread of this material online, the rise of these movements whether with Law Enforcement<\/a>, enhancement, research, oversight et cetera i think what we are facing is essentially more mass terrorist attacks like we saw in el paso at the walmart, not just here in the United States<\/a> but probably in other countries because White Supremacy<\/a> is flourishing abroad. We will see more rise in hate crimes much like we have seen during this pandemic as hate speech has been thrown against asian and jews in relationship to covid19 and the number of attacks on the population has risen. We will see more terrorists taking advantage of current conditions, whether directly targeting protesters which has already happened,ng lots of cops have been killed by members of these Extremist Movement<\/a>s but all their scary things happening like neo groups from those who e aim that they will use people who are infected with covid to infect others and this is a really scary thing. There is a huge amount of people unfortunately who do not accept multiracial, multicultural tdemocracies and dont like the symptoms systems and dont like changing demographics and are willing to use violence to stop it. Mr. Donahue, thank you. I went first. Im sorry, mr. Mcbeth or mcdonald. My biggest fear is that there will be acts of terrorism and active protest places. It will put a damper on people willing to go there and make people afraid to actually go into the streets and protest and that is terrible for our system of democracy. Im also afraid that we are coming up on a street war. There are way too many guns at large protest events held by people with very differing views and there is a lot of paranoia so some people bring it as a defensive mechanism and other as an aggressive one. You never know who is who until the shooting starts. I am terrified that there will be a shootout at one or more of these events and that tooed will put a damper on future protests and that is a dreadful situation and its very difficult to stop the flow of these groups are difficult to stop them from speaking because they too have a voice but there is no counter boys and their t we should nt be waiting to see if a Homeland Security<\/a> Research Memo<\/a> is leaked orbefore we know what the governments view is on these groups and i like to see some form of public papers put out talking about who the groups are, what their, who they target, right now i just hope they come out looking for informationw, and that should be public record. That should be public in formation. Mr. Chairman, just one quick question to doctor barrett, this is important information. I got that the Domestic Intelligence<\/a> is important positively to inform us to be able to protect our citizens. Doctor barrett, we have seen homeowners stand in front of their homes with guns so how deep should we begin to assess hate speech and attitudes legislatively . We did a hate crimes built many years ago and i think we need to marginalize our perception of how we interact so that different groups are not demonized and im asking doctor barrett. Sure, obviously these people whose views i find repugnant have First Amendment<\/a> rights. But i do think, as i said earlier, congress has oversight responsibility to find out what the heck is going on in the social media world on this front. If companies are allowed to write their own terms of service oureems to me that government has a right to find out whether they are being enforced, how they are enacted because we dont live in the same world where if someone said terrible things about black people or jews or muslims that voice only carried to a few other people. Now, millions of people are llpotentially the target. We know white males have been sucked into the ranks of these movements and some commit Mass Violence<\/a> because of the online stuff and someonene needs to pressure the companies because for [audio difficulties] much, mr. Ou very chairman. Ranking member and the chairman of the full committee ideal backward thank you for this courtesy and thank you for this hearing, very important. Thank you. We thank you for your leadership on this issue. We will not reckon eyes mr. Walker for second round of questions. Thank you, mr. Rose. Chairman. This is if we could have some quick responses here. In various ways each of you highlight the importance of tracking extremist content and eminent violence on social media. I know thats important to determine as well. Mr. Donohue calls for the creation of a social media norad version of something and could you further explain what types of access and authorities you think the government or individual lawenforcement agencies should have two track certain social media posts . Do you thank you have sufficient authority to do this now and we will or no pun intended, ms. Mcnabb, could we start with you . I hesitate to give police more authority to monitor and review things said by citizens. It is a problem area and it could be abused and unfortunately we are still on this left right idea where we should be looking at this as violent friends. I think police have a little bit of a blind spot for white wing that they dont have four left think they need to be looking at right wings even more than leftt at this moment. Could you impact that for me a little more. You said they have a blind spot. Look at any video of a street protest, for example, in portland or seattle you have a line of Police Officers<\/a> separating leftwing protesters and rightwing protesters. If you watch Police Officers<\/a> have their back to heavily armed people standing behind them and are facing left wing with the assumption that leftwing is what will harm them whereas the people sitting behind them have some pretty rapid anti police ideas as well. There are a number of Police Officers<\/a> with street tattoos or wearing [inaudible] and these are extremist groups. Police need to be aware that some of these extremist groups want to kill them t and unfortunately thats not coming through. As i said there needs to be a counter boys on a lot of this and there needs to be information coming out of t it Homeland Security<\/a> or fbi and i dont know what but that explains these are the violent groups and these are what they are capable of so that police have some ability to discern rightwing protesters from white ring extremists its a problem. Thank you. I spent the better part of my 20 years and two different republican administrations and then a Democratic Administration<\/a> tried to convince federal Law Enforcement<\/a> that the threat from white ring extremists should not be abandoned and should not be but of course after 911 people were horrifically concerned about al qaeda and now isis and that is still important but looking at rightwing extremism was sensually dropped. In fact there was a division at dhs of people who crated intel on white ream extremism that was shutwi down in the early years f the obama administration. I think it would be very helpful to find out exactly what the federal government is doing and exactly what authorities they have when it comes to rightwing extremism. If i could interrupt, i did mention that i just said tracking extremist content and violence on social media as a whole weather is strong to left or right as far as what kind of tools or Access Authority<\/a> should have inul doing so. Do you have anything to speak to that . The reason i say in this is because the facts are now right wing extremism is the bigger problem, if we talk about the 1960s i would not debate about black mass web and violence. I think the focus has to be there and that is where the deaths are coming from her that could change tomorrow but right now that is the problem and that is what is on the online space. Mr. Donohue. I think no side and i hate to use that as the example but no one along the spectrum has a monopoly on hates or a monopoly on violence. I think there are authorities that exist within the federal government that the attorney general guidelines on Domestic Intelligence<\/a> and there are or there is the fbis investment Domestic Intelligence<\/a> guide and y i believe in my former positin in the nypd we are under federal Court Monitor<\/a> ship for the types of intelligence investigation intelligence gathering that we have engaged in in the past and where i said in my prepared testimony thatt in the past thee have been overreached. Having been an intelligent officer i understand the importance of it and how it can help prevent violence and injury and death. The fact is as we have seen in more recent protests molotov cocktails being thrown at Police Officers<\/a> and hiring Police Officials<\/a> being beaten over the head. They are sustaining serious injuries. We know that there is no one side and in fact, when you look at the events happened in california with the deaths you mentioned earlierve of the two federal agents and a sheriffs deputies are incredibly painful for lawenforcement to see and we need to have the support through dhs and the intelligence training and authorities at Regional Intelligence Center<\/a> level. You mentioned from my written testimony about the norad type trusted broker ship i was talking about and we should have more conversations about that because that is understanding that entire sphere of what is happening on the cyber social building, specifically when it comes to violence. Thank you, mr. Donohue bird i know they arehe extending programs, hiring new people and im encouraged by theseop activities and maybe mr. Chairman at some point we could do an in person hearing to see maybe get an update on some of that work but thank you again and i see my time has expired but if they were strong answers on a pc that and youll back. Mr. Walker, i completely agree that that is something we should absolutely pursue and it is clear that extremism is now threatening the lives of our lawenforcement officials across the country and i say extremism. You and i have made a commitment and i respect you, mr. Walker, for not politicizing our efforts but extremism is also effecting peoples constitutional right to congregate and be heard and so this extremism is undeniably amplified and put on steroids by social media so my question is this very simply, we willl start with ms. Mccabe. In congress if congress does not do anything to crackdown on what is happening across the spectrum are we putting the lives of lawenforcement officials and law abiding americans unnecessarily at risk and miss mccabe, we concert with you. The answer is yes. Whether it is long term remains to be seen and it may just be the groups that build and build and build without any dampening effect and they engaged in randm acts of violence at protests or whatever and then they may burn out but the longterm is unknown paid shortterm i think were looking at mass casualtiesnk, could be free, could be 50, who knows . It could be cops or protesters or medical workers and it could be anybody as long as there is chaos these groups will thrive. They will do what they have to do to bring chaos to the situation. Yes, i think if you do nothing people will die. Doctor byron. I agree with jj. Ifif you do nothing to try to sp the trends that are leading to this proliferation especially on the online space we will have exact what jj described. Mr. Donohue. Its very clear that the tactics and the rhetoric is being turned up and, as i said in my prepared remarks, we are watching and we need to acknowledge with this hearing is doing that we need to preserve Civil Society<\/a> and i believe [inaudible] i think politicians also getp lost in my new shepherd we have here a group of experts, bipartisan support in terms of their stature and expertise and they are unanimous in the fact that if we do not act as congress to address the increasing extremism in america and the weight their activity is amplified in america, if we do not gather the courage to act lot was when officials and lawabiding americans will die. Now when and if that happens we have no excuse. I sincerely hope we can be able to put hyper politics aside and act together to figure out how we can do something. Im not the sharpest tool in the shed but if something needs to be signed into law democrats and will begins have to agree on something. With that we will go on to ms. Slotkin. Thank you, chairman. Mr. Donohue, i wanted to canoe the line of questioning i had in my first question as a High Ranking Police<\/a> officer, tea for many, many years this latter of escalation. You talked about it on the internet and how something goes from maybe an inside joke to more extreme on the internet but for the people of mid michigan could you talk about that letter ofof escalation with cops off te internet and start to become vandalism, harassment and then potentially violence . We know some of these examples you all talk about that there is a ladder and a road that people travel before they perpetrate real violence and for any extremists. I was hoping you could walk us through that what looks like in a ticktock way. I think it probably defies a logical order. A couple years back, they produced a report that identified the potential risk factors for or from radicalization to violent extremism and it was written in the context of the experiences from the u. S. In the uk, canada for people who were seeking to support violent extremism abroad. I dont want to say im a social scientist but these are examples that are or that other experts have weighed in on but certainly among them what you can see our people who have a desire for status or want to belong forfo people who desire action or adventure and people that have serious grievances that feel under threat and have an us versus them attitude. Those all are part of that toxic stew that can, not necessarily, but can contribute to radicalization and violence. And where people, parents, community members, members of their faith m and either and potentially people Online Community<\/a> can help support, identify those that are moving from just radicalization of thoughts to motivation to extremism and violence and as we said before and are prepared testimony that timeframe that specifically with what happened at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh that murderous rampage literally went from a web post moments before entering going in and conducting those murders. Posted online, screw your optics im going in and then proceeded to so the timeframe from left of action to right of action is very, very short. It requires observation for ma many. Great, thank you, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you. Miss jackson lee. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I want to follow my line of questioning that i had previously and doctor beirich, i believe its important for the government to have as part of its actions expanded resources understanding to mitigate some of the intense dangers that had been evidenced in this hearing. I take for example what mr. Donohue just said about the email or the social media right before the synagogue killing. I also know that black lives matter in the movement is a Civil Rights Movement<\/a> and it is a Generational Movement<\/a> that has drawn the attention of the nation, 67 of the imagine public, not black, not white but all americans who understand black lives matter. As i go into the election of social media, lack of understanding and lack of presence in the government, looking at these accelerators can interfere with the election and can be dangerous for people going to vote in order to provoke something catastrophic. What is your response to the importance of the governmentyo using resources, understanding and being able to know where these accelerators are as you move into this very difficult time and very important time in democracy. I think thats a very important point you are makingh. The Racial Justice<\/a> movement, black lives matter movement, is a particular target of these organizations. Obviously, if you are a white supremacist and dont care for Racial Justice<\/a> and these are people who you want to stop them expressing their views and forming american democracy and of positive direction. The fusion centers, lawenforcement investigative agencies and so on need to be watching these movements very, very carefully, monitoring wherl they are getting into violence in the online space and need to scwork with academics and others who study these movements to keep on top of these trends. I feel strongly the government needs to bring oversight to the online space to pressure the companies to do better on this front. They claim to take this material down o and yet it pops up. I think those are all very important things and you will have to learn on it with the monthly enough to the investigation but there were four terrorist attacks including the tree of life attack in just a few weeks and we could be facing Something Like<\/a> this coming up as weac approach november. Thank you. Ms. Mcnabb, doctor beirich is right in terms of the actions in 2018 which allows certain candidates to take advantage of the divide that is going on or attempting to go on in this country. The Second Amendment<\/a> has been used as an instigator to divide people. No one has challenged the Second Amendment<\/a> in my knowledge in the United States<\/a> Congress Since<\/a> i have served, meaning to amend the constitution and ms. Mcnabb, what rolesco do guns have in the provoking of the Second Amendment<\/a> along with the potential hate speech potentially impacting the elections as we go forward and the question to you again how important it is for the government resource to understand to be played into this as well as well as a real response to gun safety laws that had been promoted. Ms. Mcnabb. My apologies. I lost my connection for about the last five minutes and im just logging back in. What role do guns play in the approaching elections with accelerants in the provoking of the Second Amendment<\/a> meeting using the second moment as an excuse against people who really want gun safety and all of these issues provoking what we would want to be Peaceful Elections<\/a> in 2020 and accelerants would use these components to disrupt elections. What i said before is they were terrorist acts during the 2018 election and obviously skewing people to believe you needed a gun toting advocate law and order to win as opposed to someone who wants to bring the nation together but what does that do in adding to the excel arrests approach to disrupting peaceful demonstrations. Guns bring power. Power that an ordinary person would not otherwise have and some people are abusing that power and usingng guns to intimidate and in the worstCase Scenario<\/a> they would use their guns to kill. It is not just guns and those arrested from las vegas were also from accelerants and planning on bombing people and another recent arrest was a car bomb and another one was one that blew up in hospital with a car bomb so its not just guns but guns are visible and very intimidating. If anything is going to cause protesters to be afraid to go out it is in the presence of a large armed group. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Thank you. I think it is clear this hearing is vital for actions that should be taken in particular dealing with the actions by the government and they cant stand idly by. They can be leaning and giving indications of one group over one group and particularly groups like [inaudible] over Peaceful Protesters<\/a>. [audio difficulties] dealing with particularly the Huge Community<\/a> and i know we are in covid19 but a look forward to moving on some of these issues before the november election. We have to make a strong stand against these actions and accelerants. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, ms. Jackson lee. There is a massive intersection here between protecting lawenforcement officials and protecting the rights of millions of people to be heard as they call for Racial Justice<\/a> in this country and protecting the rights of our constitution to be upheld and that will definitely require [inaudible] thank you, i yield back. With that i think the witnesses for their valuable testimony and their members for their questions. Members of the subcommittee have additional questions but we ask that you respond expeditiously and without objection the committee recordd shall be kept open for ten days, hearing no further questions, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Sixteen term u. S. Representative eliot engel has lost his re election bid. The 73 yearold congressman chairs the House Foreign Affairs<\/a> committee and becomes the fifth house incumbent, second democrat, to lose their seat to this years primary. The democratic winner in new york 16 Congressional District<\/a> primary, Jamaal Bowman<\/a> is a middle School Principal<\/a> from yonkers. There is no republican candidate in that district. Mr. Bowman will be challenged by the conservative party candidate. Next week, the house and senate returned to legislate a business before the august recess. On monday and tuesday house takes up the fiscal year 2021 National Defense<\/a> authorization act. The bill establishes policies for Defense Department<\/a> programs, votes are expected early on monday. Wednesday the house will consider a bill to remove the bust of chief Justice Roger<\/a> b toting the author of the 1857 dred scott ruling from the Old Supreme Court<\/a> chamber and to address the issue of confederate statues on display in the u. S. Capital. The senate also convenes on monday to resume debate on the nomination of Russell Bogue<\/a> to be the officer of management and budget paid for their manner of the week the Senate Continues<\/a> work on the annual 740. 52021 billion Defense Authorization<\/a> act. Watch live coverage of the house on cspan, live coverage of the senate on cspan2 and watch any time on cspan. Org or listen on the go with the free cspan radio app. During the summer months reach out to your elected officials with cspans congressional directory that contains all the Contact Information<\/a> you need to stay in touch with members of congress, federal agencies and state governors. Order your copy online today at cspan store. Org. Next, a hearing on mortgage relief programs for homeowners for homeowners during the coronavirus pandemic. The subcommittee heard from officials on the National Consumer<\/a> law center home free usa for the National Association<\/a> of Real Estate Brokers<\/a> and Housing Policy Council<\/a> and topics included the state of the Housing Market<\/a> in efforts to present foreclosures. 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