Good evening everyone. We have an event were finally getting around to will have in walmart the washington lecture and Mary Ball Washington. And some time ago and the time and experience and with womens History Month and here we are tonight i went to mention one important thing everyone in the audience probably knows by now we have opened a few audiences to visitors. And in the Education Center and with those particular challenges but please come visit mount vernon so on july 8 right around the corner our book talk will feature the host and creator of the pbs miniseries on the constitution and interviewed from David Rubenstein and please join us for that conversation so we can learn more about our constitution. Terminates events but in fact i do want to interview our guest and moderator doctor karen wolf. And also from the institute of American History to institute of volume and mary and working on a project so welcome. Thank you so much. Im joining you from my dining room. Where is that quick. Im just roundabout way in maryland right now. Welcome. I will not intrude any longer. Looking forward to the talk. Thank you so much. So for all of you im sorry were not together in person for this conversation but also some of the most important and challenging issues in early history thank you to mount vernon for bringing us together my family loved visiting mount vernon but you may not be surprised to know one of the lasting contributions is supporting research new information new questions and then essential for the nation and the contributions to interpretation but also those like we are talking about this evening. In the lecture series we are grappling with core issues how do we tell those that are not George Washington or super well documented from this early. All women are difficult to document and enslaved men and women as the washingtons were working in their life but its such an important history so i will start with some quick context and 18th century virginia before i introduce tonights panel. Mary ball washington known to us as the wife of George Washington. We will let george be a minor character. Born in 17 oh eight to a wealthy and connected family and then married into another wealthy and connected family and then died in 1789 mary ball she was two years old when her father died. In all the places they lived the population was 50 percent enslaved people. She was married 12 years to George Washingtons father and bore six children the eldest of whom became the first president and managed a 300acre estate from her than three decades and was not keen to leaving that she did eventually and the last 17 years so thats just a start for the opportunity to explore them to better understand to turn to a distinguished panel you can see what im always in favor of introducing people so with a long career in politics including four bestsellers of Ronald Reagan in december 1921 a new bestseller of the attack on pearl harbor and most recently to publish Mary Ball Washington the untold story in 2019. Professor emeritus from womens studies at college the womens moral values and coauthor of the seventh edition of interpretation of American History because many graduate students how many fellowships and just published the widow washington and already wine and award. Last but not least professor of history the author of ladies and gentlemen on display in Elizabeth Patterson and bonaparte is currently writing a book that i promise you will be fantastic also the coeditor of a volume of essays and the coeditor of the Jefferson America series. This is the moment traditionally we were the applaud our panel and welcome them and thank them for joining us this evening so when we started with craig we welcome you to the 18th century but in particular you been a historian one thing that is super interesting to me in your book you talk about the history and tradition that you began your volume in the 18h century but the impact of the h century and the legacy. Can you talk with us about that quick. Yes. They give very much and inviting me to be with you tonight. The place to start, why i got interested i always wanted to do a biography of George Washington and in rural virginia and i was have a fascination with washington with two favorite president s and they remain today multiple careers and interest and talents so it occurs to me the Episcopal Church here in virginia where the ball family attended, now i cant think of it but they are all buried in the graveyard theres so i found out that the scholarship on Mary Ball Washington and what was out there was after she passed away and through 1860 she was treated like mary the mother of jesus a saintly figure and was treated very delicately. Than the. After the civil war, she took on a much harder task dear say to go from june cleaver to joan crawford. Sony there was true it was much more nuanced. So than get into the research with a very talented woman, and then had a very fine hand. And most of the life was in fredericksburg which is a booming metropolis. And much be a much more sophisticated and then to address the idea and then to look at more closely. And then to have an older stepbrother but was never around all that much. But there were no strong male figures and to achieve all these qualities to be associated with. It has to come from somebody and correct conclusion is not just because she had George Washington but raised him may be the most important woman in the history of the republic. Thank you so much. Thats an interesting reflection im sure people in fredericksburg im sure it was a lively pace in the 18th century and more lively may be more than we thought. So with a quick followup about Mary Ball Washington and how they interpreted her over time. You said going from june cleaver to joan crawford. And its a much longer period from the 19th century to the late 20th century. So as people interpret motherhood differently with popular conceptions of women. No doubt about that. All of us as historians and scholars with those modern sensibilities we are not judging them by those standards but we are taking a closer look at the men and women of the past so i tried to imagine what it would be like and also doing a lot of research on my book but what was it like to be a single woman raising six children were five children that it wasnt very hospitable to women obviously they didnt have the votes but they couldnt even own property. So then to take the property is passed along to them when you reach the age of majority. So to do what they had to do thats all respectful citizens to be the most respectable so she had to have done something right may be a lot of things under those unfortunate circumstances. I appreciate that a lot and makes me want to ask martha a question about widowhood. So for everybody watching martha has been experiencing laryngitis so her daughter will read some of her responses for us and then martha will catch us on the followup. We appreciate that ally and its very suitable with the motherdaughter thing happening here. I just want to start out to tell us more as martha balls washingtons position as a woman and how that helps us to understand her and the world she lives in. Give us some context. I wrote something out so my daughter could repeat it its a little formal but i think it answers your question if she goes on too long just tell us to stop. Telling the story of mary ball as a widow opens a wide ranging discussion of 18th century virginia with class in slavery white women contradictory roles in the way the legal system shapes White Supremacy the position gives the privilege of lack of fundamental rights to stay unmarried on the death of her husband with those special freedoms and customary liabilities. For virginia lies with the ownership of land and in marys case left the plantation to his son by the first marriage and divide up the rest among his and marys sons. He left mary the right to use the house and land the left are approximately the same number that brought to the marriage to stipulate if he felt the need for more it would come from those designated as her children. But then in line with the legal goal to reduce property owning widows to dependency which is considered the natural condition for women these Legal Practices created the widespread friction between mothers and firstborn sons after the comingofage and failed to find the means to build herself a home for over the years the quest to meet expenses on this relatively infertile property ask him and then takes and makes a profit. And then failed in that endeavor. We dont know why she remained a single but had a memory of independence from the time young mary was about six through 12. She watched her mother run their farm and litigate recovered property and make her own decisions. Another important factor is that if she remarried if the second husband hampered the legacy she would lose guardianship. As a child and wanted to prevent is not uncommon occurrence. And on the childrens property and risk control over her children. And as a slave owner over the much of the 18th century. And those between slaveholders and enslaved people as the institution developed over that time. With the two young enslaved boys and a male at age three. And with that necessity of slavery. She own children about her age who was playmates but whatever the game she would win and grip on a small farm where the enslaved and free live close together and they personally forced work out of the captives. When her father died the mother took over hiring the overseer but still controlling the farm and the enslaved workers. Mary was born in it. Where a high number of africans entering virginia speaking foreign languages. Some was scars and bewildered and frightened and rebellious. And with the early 18th century laws and with those unborn children of the enslaved women. She promised mary the as an enslaved woman she would be valuable. That working in the field as well as the house to produce children that they could do themselves. Both marys early ownership of men and boys and her membership in the early 18th century generation helps make her an unrepentant slaveowner. And then with the enslaved for mount vernon. That mary persisted and had her way. And as a widow she had to demonstrate her authority and strength for her slaves and overseers perceived weakness could lead to resistance to show that the infections by enslaved people owned by widow showed up more often in courts than those biden. So that protected the enslaved people could not see as an overseer of discipline. And that will the planters would create the mistresses and the daytoday extraction of work from laborers and a woman vulnerable to the criticism. Thank you. That is a helpful contrast. You put two things together there that Mary Ball Washington experiences as a widow and how the law in virginia and then in a powerful position. So Mary Ball Washington is very interesting figure both extremely powerful and some context so when we come back to you in the second round to give us a reminder of what that meant that lot of overture that defines property owning is crucial for us to understand. And that which constrains people is important to understand it. And how hard it is to write a biography. So even so its a challenge. Why is that so hard to write biographies of women . You are right. Exactly there are multiple reasons why there are challenges and multiple challenges as well. I take the easy way out. I choose women who are less known or have been written about in newspapers or other historians. But Mary Ball Washington is a little more elusive. But the challenges come and also how have people have kept forces which so look at the 18 century and early 19th century. And with those generalizations. They dont have public identities. If they are the mother of somebody the wife or daughter somebody. But because of that. To have those public identities to be seen as specific individuals as a general category, they got lost in the records. They were not written about as much. And if you look at the census the mens names were on head of the household. So with that you can sift through all the traditional documents and go to the archive archives. The papers are known by then mens name. And then find Margaret Arnold through Benedict Arnolds papers. Or to their fathers names. And put into one folder. You have to sift in the same thing with newspapers. And what key terms do you use because they will not always be known as Margaret Arnold much harder to find than men but this is why i like to write biographies about women is because we get creative whence they are more elusive and difficult to write about this is where you start thinking a sources in different ways not just reading between the lines but thinking about architecture that women inhabited bedrooms and orchards and thats a way to think of material culture look at jewelry or dishes or a piece of clothing can tell us an immense amount enough full and rich way even those that are there are not as rich for washington or jefferson. When i think we need to understand that it seems simplistic for me to say but those like Mary Ball Washington are simplified known as the mother of the father. Very complex figures not just somebodys wife or daughter but slaveholders and female politicians and shopkeepers an artist and women with full complexity and the challenge of the biography and then to best that open to think about sources in creative ways. It is a harder history to write and is more challenging and more frustrating especially looking for women of color it can produce a lot of anger in my students get angry. But there are lots of rewards to resurrect these women as fully complex individuals. Thank you that is your emphasis on the challenge and the creativity. It really underscores the key point especially tried being to write about those are really known to us primarily by the relationship to someone who enslaved them and the incredible achievement and to let her be an individual when really we only have two points of access in those interviews of the 19th century describing when she went away to washington. So yes so with those individuals not just in a relationship to other people. Thank you. Going back to the question with martha and curvature so asking two things, the first one is that if you can very quickly are a sustained description what the law of curvature is and how it disempowers women elites or freed women and empowers them when they are not married. When you marry you lose your legal identity. As a woman you assume your husband nothing that you produce is yours. Presumably you are dependent on your father who can arrange and pass things on to you and you can be the owner of property. When you are a widow the same thing happens you can own things in your own right so curvature wipes out your individual legal existence. We know who we stores many of those that men have. Its interesting to think about and as a very challenging time to have more legal capacity than when shes married and also in men are widowed day we marry much less quickly. And we cannot assume that in some modern feminine sense but that capacity she has suited her in some ways. She saw the difference in her mothers life. Its not clear to me she enjoyed her mother very much. She admired her strength and her abilities. Also she would not have to have any more children. But she had six. She may not have wanted to spend her life producing children but women at the time had a real reason for not wanting to marry again. Also possibly to lose control over the property that she still had but also longterm from her father. And then preferred that. Also to mentioned very briefly, all of these subjects are big ones and compelling one ones, and interesting thing is that there are things we can know about. Can you briefly talk about Mary Ball Washington as a reader . I have some of that my daughter could read that is that okay . Yes. As ray became an adolescent she came into possession of the Christian Life from the beginning the first of a handful of devotional books she would read and reread during her life there almost all written late 17th century all helpful whose early loss of her parents left her in need of comfort and guidance. Many lessons focused on how to accept loss of health and fortune by studying those purposes excessive unhappiness and complaining challenge guides all you knowing plan this is a common belief and although many did not comply she had to learn these lessons early and often. Matthew hales contemplations Marilyn Devine she wrote her name below her predecessors that book was her daily companion she use that parable to suit herself to teach your children and grandchildren. George washington later came to own his own copy. These books all taught the hierarchies that at someone should work hard. Most favorably as stewards of property and then to insist on moral behavior someone if the lowerclass could not appreciate the complexity of christianity. So they would tell slaves not to steal and be obedient. Marries books furniture brain to navigate the stress and pain unlike the wealthier contemporaries she did not read novels that were beginning to be popular. Written the friendly egalitarian tone rather than as teacher to student had empathy and sympathy sharing sorrows with pain. Because of her early losses a precocious workload had little of these qualities that the elite valued valued. That is helpful and also amplifies the point you are making about her thinking about her role and her placement in society. So mentioning this point as a significant leader to understand her person of letter was your sense of rewriting the biograph biography. I will ask you a slightly unfair question talking about how important it is to think of women as these independent people and i do want to ask yo you, what is the significance to understand Mary Ball Washington to understand George Washington