American veterans. We will hear the opening statements. I will remind you to pause two to three seconds before spe speaking, so the microphone picks up your words and so you can pause when answering questions so we capture your complete response. Thank you very much, ms. Barnes, you are recognized for five minutes. Ms. Barnes, you may have to unmute. I think were having trouble hearing you. Proceed, ms. Barnes. I think you just unmuted okay. Members of the subcommittee and task force, thank you for inviting me here to today to discuss Sexual Harassment at the department of Veterans Affairs. 2016 survey by the protection board estimated that 22 of va employees experienced some form of Sexual Harassment in the workplace. Va has several methods to address such Sexual Harassment complaints, but we found that the agency was falling short in a number of areas including one, the complaint structure, the [inaudible] and three [inaudible] to va employees. I will discuss issues with the complaint structure. The vas eeo Organization Structure doesnt adhere to a key directive from the equal Employment Opportunity commission. The same official may not oversee personnel functions and eeo functions. However the eeo director has oversight responsibility for both of these. In order to maintain the integrity of the eeo investigative and Decision Making processes and avoid a conflict of interest or the appearance of one, the director states that those eeo functions must be kept separate from the agencys personnel function. Our report recommends that va realign its director position to adhere to the directive. They didnt concur with the recommendation. The second problem with the eeo Program Managers, those that interface with employees about the program as va facilities. Va Officials Say full time eeo Program Managers should report to the orm instead of the director of the local facility in order to prevent real or perceived conflicts of interest. However, two of the three administrations are not structured this way. Our report recommends the va complete these realignments and va has plans for these realignments that stretch into 2024. The third problem relates to the Harassment Prevention Program which va has four years and cited in its policy. It is intended to prevent and address harassment including Sexual Harassment yet neither the policy directive or implementation handbook has been approved by va leadership and distributed to employees. We found that vas failure to approve and distribute these documents has contributed to inconsistent implementation and a lack of awareness about the program. Our report recommends that va finalize these documents. Let me turn to the second area of concern, Information Collection incidents of Sexual Harassment and actions taken. I will talk about what va knows about the extent of harassment. Va relies on complaint data to understand the Sexual Harassment at the agency, but these data are incomplete. Va has data on complaints that are made through the harassment correction Prevention Program or through the eeo process but not all complaints where observations of Sexual Harassment made to managers. Currently theres no requirement for managers to report this information through the orm. In addition, va does not use additional available information that could inform its efforts to address sexual harass, such as, surveys, would suggest that many employees do not file formal complaints when they experience Sexual Harassment. Our reports recommend that va requires managers to report all Sexual Harassment complaints to orm and va said it would implement a new system by the end of september 2021. Now, turning to what va knows about corrective actions taken to address Sexual Harassment. Va does not have a comprehensive to make sure that corrective actions such as disciplines that are decided upon the Sexual Harassment complaints are actually carried out. Theres an insurance process in place for eeo complaints but not for complaints resolved by managers or through hpp. Our report recommends that va ensures that corrective actions are implemented and the va told us they will require this by the end of september 2021. The third and final problematic area i would like to discuss today is the provision of information to va employees. Va has overarching Sexual Harassment policy regarding prohibiting and addressing Sexual Harassment of employees that is provided to all of the employees. Va and its three administrations also have additional policies to support it. However, some are not consistent with the overarching policy and some have outdated or missing information. Our report recommends that the va completes these actions and the policies across all of its administrations. In conclusion, an agencys ability to prevent and address workplace Sexual Harassment is important to ensuring that employees are healthy and safe. By implementing our reports recommendations, va has the opportunity to better protect, prevent, and address Sexual Harassment and protect its employees. Thank you. This concludes my statement. I would be happy to respond to any questions. Thank you very much, ms. Barnes for your statement. I would now like to recognize ms. Elam for five minutes. Members of the subcommittee and Women Veterans task force, thank you for inviting me to provide testimony today on the issue of Sexual Harassment within the depth of Veterans Affairs department of Veterans Affairs. As an Organization Made up of women, disabled veterans, va members rely on the va Healthcare System to meet their unique Service Related healthcare and rehabilitative needs. While data shows that veterans are satisfied with their care, certain groups of veterans including women and lgbtq veterans report they continue to experience gender or Sexual Harassment seeking va medical care. These persistent reports of harassment were last year found 25 of Women Veterans surveyed reported inappropriate and or unwanted comments or behavior by male veterans while seeking va healthcare. This is compared to a National Survey finding where only 5 of nonveteran women respond ents reported Sexual Harassment in a private sector healthcare setting. This disparity cannot be ignored and begs the question, why are reports of harassment so much higher in va . What is the impact on those being harassed, and what can be done to address this issue . According to the va study, Women Veterans who reported harassment were less likely to report feeling welcome at the va and more likely to report feeling unsafe and delaying or missing their care. 62 of the study respondents [inaudible]. 80 reported combat or lifetime exposure to trauma. The consequences of delaying or missing care could be devastating for our veterans who need specialized Mental Health services, treating ptsd due to Wartime Service or sexual trauma. given that sexualharassment, we made a persistent problem in the military it is not unexpected that we would see this behavior continued. In both the military, women have not always been recognized and appreciated for their contributions in military service. We continue to hear reports from Women Veterans that use v. A. Care about a general lack of regard from their male peers. One woman veteran noted you get the feeling you shouldnt be here, not as much as a man, and that your status doesnt matter. Organizations can play an Important Role in changing v. A. Healthcare and about to say we are all in will do our part to help make vha a south, welcoming harassment free environment for all v. A. Staff and veterans. Our leadership continues to champion this effort. Our National Commander shared a video message across social platforms to raise awareness about harassment and called on us to do our part in being respectful and welcoming to fellow veterans. In a recent dav article, National Adjutant also dedicated his column to this important issue. Saying none of us should be willing to stand by while a fellow veteran regardless of gender faces any type of threat, harassment or disrespect. Respect must begin with each and every one of us. While we stand up to stop rest but now, its commendable come we cant rely solely on words. We need action. We recommend leadership develop comprehensive campaign with the strategy for affecting change at all levels of the department and a policy that take some responsibility and equips staff trained to ensure implementation of the plan systemwide. As a first up we suggest all leadership make an honored assessment in their facility and partner with veterans, encourage recommend solutions to identify problems. For women and minority veterans, harassment is not just an annoyance but detrimental to their Overall Health and wellbeing here for these races we appreciate the committee attention to this issue and efforts to find Viable Solutions to end this unacceptable behavior. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my remarks and im happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you both for your testimony and will begin the questioning portion of this panel and i will begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. I want to thank our gao and dav witnesses for being with us today and for your comments. Im hopeful you both were here for the first panel and heard the comments from deputy secretary powers and him wonder if i could get your comments on her testimony, specifically to the point of the fda is moving in the right direction and if so if theyre moving quickly enough to address some of the concerns that you both have . Im happy to go right ahead. Take a stab at that question. Certainly we appreciate v. A. s efforts that seem to be underway, but like the committee come like the subcommittee has mentioned, number two, we certainly have concerns about the length of time that is taking them to get a policy in place and i think the Ranking Member put it nicely, that there is two different issues. One is the harassment issue within v. A. From an h. R. , an employee issue, but also the issue with veteran on better harassment where we get continued reports especially from Women Veterans and minority veterans. We want to see v. A. Move expeditiously to address both of these issues at the same time. They have issued a declaration that they want to stand up to stop harassment now and they listed a number of points they want what you think would satisfy everyone, but we want to see whether those actions we want the community to be involved in those solutions to really get at this problem. While we appreciate the work that they started, we want to make sure that they work on getting a plan together to work on this. And we also thanks for your comments. Go ahead. We also appreciate the work that v. A. Has done, that they have started, and we do commend those efforts. But there are certain efforts such as finalizing the policy, especially with respect to the Harassment Convention program, making sure their social policy is consistent across all of their administrations, things like that that we think should be done pretty quickly as well as looking again at the alignment of, the structural issue that they have. This is one where the have been notified several times about an eeoc as he received a program deficiency notice about this in february and i know they said they would reach out and consider what they need to do along those lines. But i have a number of things they can move out on in the shortterm fashion pretty quickly. Appreciate the comments. I want to thank you as well for the gao report on todays hearing topic. Examine many important aspects of sexual rest of policies and procedures and provide the committee with very helpful information and hope you will convey that to all of the staff that was involved in the report. And beyond that, ms. Barnes, i would like to dive a little deeper into the question of the equal Employment Opportunity leadership, and we raised this with the v. A. Witnesses. Your testimony stated we should realign its el directive is to adhere, adhere to eeocs directives. It seems v. A. Says this is an sector of Human Resources in charge doesnt handle sexualharassment under the equal work on a daily basis so theres no problem. But can you elaborate more on whether vas response makes sense to this question . Sure. This is just want to point out one that eeoc is a federal Government Agency that oversees eeo matters, and this directive structural alignment issue is eeoc directive. And the problem is that when you had the same agency official, even if they are not saying they are personally responsible but they are responsible for executing and advising on Personnel Matters and actions, if the same person thats going to be managing and advising and overseeing eeo complaint process, theres still that appearance or potential conflict of interest there. These functions need to be separated, because the eeo program processes ought to scrutinize and challenge the motivations, the impact of the personal decisions. And with the eeoc already pointing out these several times to the v. A. , and eeoc has also agreed to work to provide Technical Assistance, we just think that the v. A. Should get in line with the eeoc directive. Thank you what skin for your comments. My time is up so with that i would like to turn things over to general bergman for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and again before i start, as one of the original request is of the report, i want to commend and think gao for your efforts and what you provided for us. Because i know it doesnt have all the answers but its certainly going along way towards getting as to ask the right questions. Ms. Barnes, we cant can go bad forth on, you know, where should offices be placed for maximum effectiveness. According to the report gao spoke with the eeoc about its concern that the misalignment of the eeo director position in v. A. Does it eeoc have a recommendation as to exactly where v. A. Should place the ee oh director . R anderson is the eeoc does not have a specific recommendation but theyre willing to provide Technical Assistance to the v. A. To help them work through this structural issue. And that Technical Assistance or that meeting was supposed to have occurred but we had to finish our work so we dont know what the status of that we dont know if it happened. When youre providing Technical Assistance, sometimes you can be a facilitator, not really have any expertise or understand, you just want to create the conversation. You could be a subject Matter Expert that potentially could help you, help you help v. A. To establish a plan of action. Seems like the waters still a bit muddy there as what do the different entities believe is the correct place for this eeo director position within the v. A. Does gao have an independent recommendation on where v. A. Should place the office . We dont. Our advice is they work with eeoc, take them up on that Technical Advice and work through that to make sure they can overcome the structural issues. It might be interesting, i believe, mr. Chairman, for the committee to know even though we deal with Veterans Affairs here, it is a a Bureaucratic Agency f the federal government for us to see a list of where these offices are placed within the other agencies, whether its a dol, dod, whatever happens to be to give us comparison but in the end we need to get working we need to get a place where it will be part of solutions, not potentially ending the conflict of interest or part of problems inhibiting growth or inhibiting advancement. V. A. Was not in compliance, ms. Barnes, still for you, please get v. A. Was not in compliance with the eeoc guidance. Did gao ask the eeoc whether there were other federal agencies out of compliance and whether cure notices were issued to those agencies . We didnt ask about the other federal agencies outside of the scope but im sure that something either the v. A. Or eeoc can talk about it, kind of a model to help them decide where to place this position. I guess to get it might be helpful for the committee to know if you are in the existing, any existing data within gao reflect other agencies because you try to build a historical model to go forward with our recommendations or what we might hope for the v. A. To do. Ms. Ilem, that 2016 mspb survey found that v. A. Employees reported that 29 of sexualharassment that they experienced was at the