In your book the works you write the military saved your life. What you mean by that . I think the military plays an incredibly Important Role in my life with the most important times in my life but wearing uniform of this country and i was first introduced i was 13 years old. I was sent to military school i had on mandatory year. I got some issues and challenges when i was younger every year she said i will send you away and i blew her off. I built handcuffs on my risk for the first time at 11 years old. I was intentionally hurting people that love to me so finally one day she came up to me and said im sending you to military school. Honestly i thought she was kidding or exaggerating then finally i realized she wasnt sent me a mandatory year. I hated every minute of it when i first started. I remember those first days they are. I ran away five times the first four days. Also the longer i stayed i began to fully understand what it was they were trying to teach me and what my mom is trying to teach me and the fact we did live in the interconnected environment and community and how everybody was doing e and it mattered to my unit as a whole so when i finish high school and i got scholarship offers and doing other things, iol decided the thing that i wanted to do to lead soldiers. Thats why made the decision to join the army. So for me the decision to go into the army was a continuation of the fact i had this Public Service and to help pay for college and that was helpful but also the idea that i felt the debt of gratitude because i felt it was the introduction add a really crucial time in my life to make a lot of a difference. Host what was your role in the 82ndnd airborne . A paratrooper with the 82nd airborneoo division and then my role in afghanistan director of Information Operations for the first for grade on brigade. Thats a long way to say everything we had in terms of information of operations we had within our entire area of operations of regional command east the entire Eastern Region of afghanistan along the pakistan border i was director of Information Operations for that. So at the time when i was leaving afghanistan we had 1700 paratroopers underr our command that we were responsible for. It was amazing and on inspiring experience. Host how did you change after the first year of military school as a 12 yearold . Yes. Thirteen years old. The big thing that changed for me was there was an introduction of leadership. What that means, what it meant and the role it played in my life. I felt military school gave me a chance we make a identity that was important to rethink my role and space in society but also there was a very intentional introduction of leadership and thaton matters. People talk about military school they need discipline and do pushups and the reality is you will that is true. But that is not what makes the experience useful for me what made it t for me was introduction of leadership and the idea they will very much introduce you to leadership early in a deliberate way to put you in charge of something. After the initial basic training they will put you in charge of something. Relatively early and relatively small. Its not because of their but they will put you in charge of a hallway or the dumpsters or whatever if its clean we will congratulate you if its dirty we will help you if they notice you do a good job and you are promoted and then you move on to the next thing maybe a couple of cadets or soldiers under your command and then you move up and he was upo so there is a sense of responsibility the way they try to teach leadership that is not only useful and important for me but also gave me abu taste of what was actually important. So i knew going in leading people was important to me. I knew whether in the case of decadets or soldiers or the work that we do now, being able to be the person who can help shape the direction of organizations and execute , that became really important and the framework of how to do that also the introduction of the necessity in my life. Host how did you become a Rhodes Scholar . The truth is i think about that experience quite a bit because the first time i had a real conversation about the Rhodes Scholarship was when i was interviewing with the mayor at the time and kurt was a former Rhodes Scholar in the last day of my internship and called me into his office. It in the picture he is pointing towards a picture on the wall. Hes not the type of guy who has camera people following him around. But on that day on the final day of my internship he called me in and said have a you thought about Rhodes Scholarship . I told him i heard about it but hadnt thought about g it in the picture thats in my office it points to the wall what hess pointing at is his rhodes class. That was a moment he first told me about the Rhodes Scholarship in a should consider it also gave me instructions on people i should talk to about it and i did just that w. I talk to certain people and had certain people help me with my essays and how do i put my life journey into 1000 words for the application. And i love that story because now there is a picture of my rhodes black and im very clear that never would have happened if that picture didnt happen. So it is an experience i will never forget where literally the plane flew off on 9 11 the world the nation had changed immeasurably at the same time my experience was shaped very much by 9 11 especially as a military officer. To Study International relations in a place i was one of only 18 americans studying. To truly Study International relations from brazil and china and nigeria and argentina. Getting a chance to understand and see how all these dynamics take place in these remarkable people. It was a special experience and i give a lot of thinks to kurt and many others who helped me to realize that pathth was real. Host what is your thought about taking money from the Rhodes Foundation and what did you tell the overview board . One of the last questions they asked me for my interview as i spent time in south africa im also an africanamerican in no our fistory in this country really well. One of the last questions i was asked by the chairman of the a board. He said youve been to south africa and your africanamerican. How can you accept the rhodes money knowing the history and how he made it and the lives lost . I thought about it and i paused and i said i know a few things for sure without him creating the scholarship he did not have me in mind to have me sitting here for the scholarship money and is probably turning in his grave repeatedly knowing that i am here. That does show me what progress means. The fact that something that was not all intended forre me that now i have an opportunity that i can stand there and utilize that but also have a real obligation to do something good. The other thing i know is that my ancestors who fought and bled and built and could build in a way to create a pathway for me and able to sacrifice and dream for a world they did not see that you dream and fight for one that hopefully i would see. And for me to have the opportunity to be there and for me to take the privilege of that and fight the worlds fights come i felt it would be disrespectful not to. So understanding that particularly with the history of diesel rhodes in the history not just even south africa but the entire south african region and the damage that heicn. Did to the people ty are for his own personal benefit because at that time the wealthiest man in the m world. Its not lost its also not lost on the obligation i now have for those benefits that were fought long and hard for me to use that to make sure we can create a more just and fair world. Host [inaudible] i spent part of my childhood growing up in maryland and the bronx. One is baltimore which is where i live now i was born closer to the dc area and then new york i spent a lot of my childhood after my dad died. He was a radio personality in the dcdc area. One day he was complaining about his throat it was bothering him he went to the hospital the next day and as he went to the hospital he was wearing an uneven beard and raggedy clothes and a lot of assumptions were made about myy dad when my mom finally made it to the hospital they said is he prone to exaggeration . They gave him instructions to go home and rest and it got worse and then come back. Five hours later he died. Has a mirror living in maryland in my mom had a very difficult time with the transition and finally call that my grandparents living in the bronx. And the house is barely big enough for them but they figured out a a way to make it big enough for all of us and then after moving up there i spent six or seven years of my childhood before i went to military school in pennsylvania. But what i knew that i had a remarkable and loving family. And with what they had they really try to provide for us. Host from your book the other west more my father was dead five hours after being released from the hospital with the simple instructions to get sleep. They were now preparing to send his body to the morgue. Hos had entered the hospital seeking help but his face was unshaven and his close disheveled and his name unfamiliar and his address and not in the affluent area. The hospital looked at him and insulted him with questions and basically told him to fend for himself. Now my mother had to plan his funeral. Why do you think those assumptions were made . Race. Its one of theoo heartbreaking things. From where we are now. And also people say at what point in your life did you understand the impact of race . And as you just listed out and with that system that we have with the Education System with Environmental Justice its impossible to talk about these things withoutg understanding the role of systemic racism because it will never be lost on me. Because there would have been a benefit and have a benefit of the doubt been given we would not have the same type oof result. And its not just anecdotal. But to reinforce the fact that race is one of the most predictable indicators across education and mortality. And the thing that made that real in the case of my father and my Family History is the idea and then to understand or embrace the impact of race at all. Host who is the other west more . Actually at the same time i was getting ready to head off my hometown paper wrote an article about this local kid who just received a Rhodes Scholarship and writing about my background and my childhood and the fact just ten years ago i had handcuffs on my wrist and now ten years later and what that journey lookat like. But at the samee, time also writing about the armed Jewelry Store robbery and then they got everybody on the ground and then they walked into the store. The guns with the one with the guns keeping everybody on the ground the one with the mallet was smashing the jewelry to take the rings and necklaces and watches. They got 400,000 worth of jewelry. One of the people in the store was a officer moonlighting at 13 year veteran of the police force the three term recipient officer of the year, a father five who just had triplets. He was working that day because it was his day off on the police force and he tookn on a second job to make money for his family. When they left the store he got up off the ground and drew his weapon and ran outside he tried to give himself cover but the vehicle he was leaning next he was one of the vehicles the guys were in. The window was rolled down and he was shot three times that point blank range and killed instantly. There was a 12 day National Manhunt and then all four guys were caught. They captured and tried and sentenced them one guys name was also wes moore. The more i learned about this crime in this tragedy so one day i decided to write him a note i said heres how i heard about you and one month later i got a letter back from west more and that was fascinating to me everything he was alluding to that one letter turned into dozens of letters turning into dozens of visits i have known him over 17 years hes in your 20 have a life sentence him and his older brother and two other guys were there. That to he was in that initial letter turned into something the way i thought about the world to serve as an important reminder that his story could have been mine. And with that decisionmaking and then sometimes that we accidentally fall into. Sometimes its the lack of options but we cannot be so quick to congratulate. Unless they are willing to tunderstand the thing that makes our stories rich and how to understand the neighborhoods we were growing up in an far too many have her children were screaming about what we want from them and what we expect from them i remember he said to me we were talking about baltimore and we were living blocks away fromfr each other and he said to me are we a product . And said i think we are products of expectations. And said he is absolutely right not of our environment better expectations and thats a shame of our expectation the real shame and then to structure that societal system. And when you quote to the other west more talking to yo you, from everything youve told me both of us did wrong stuff when we were younger. Both of us had Second Chances. But if the situation or the context we make the decisions dont change, then Second Chances dont mean to much. Thats right. St and to see to get Second Chances and for what. Thats important for me to appreciate that every one of us needs a second chance. And i tell people all the time they are now two steps forward and one step back. That is now so the idea of needing Second Chances its a very humanistic need for what we are not structured to do as a society is to have any form of parity of apportionment and what that means and we still okknow from every single measure from the criminal Justice System that we have massive disparities. And how these are actually allocated. And those that are living in poverty. With the water they are drinking. And then if you are creating this concentrated level and the idea behind Second Chances and then that song after the book. And then respectfully i need anybody to remind me. But he then the decisions dont separate us i also know if youre not willing to learn theseil lessons are even getting speople an opportunity then that is crucial how we think about thebo world. Host what does he think about you telling his story . I have a friend a remarkable writer. Shes a real writer. That would always ask about wes. I knew about him for years before the idea of the book should always ask what he was ndoing and said i thank you should write about this. There is a story to be told. Im not that interested in writing a book i dont want to dig that deeply into his life for my own. I went to go see him and i said ive been approached about your story and immediately he said i thank you should do it. Is that ive wasted every opportunity ive ever had in life. I will die in here. And then to understand the consequences for their decision. With that decision to do it and then that became the entire fire and focus. That i wanted people to understand. Of the consequences people are making in that context in the neighborhood they are making ythem in. And then just received word. And then with the oped and that is a fantastic writer with a progressive and a brilliant guy and then to say i really enjoyed this book because of race and class in society and in three weeks later, great news we just received word michael is to write an oped and as a former speechwriter to president bush and the b Washington Post and he writes an oped where he says i really enjoy the other west more a great examination of individualnd choice. On they are two completely Different Reasons and my wife said who do you think is right but honestly theyre both right you cant r talk about societal responsibilities individuals will be held to account. However we cannot talk about individual choice of the understanding these choices are made and the societal context that does influence the type of choice and people are making so all of those things help to tie in how illuminating to me but also very humbling in the way i feel it is translated. And then to say and understand where we are asking ourselves every single day how much pain are we willing to tolerate . How much pain can we tolerate farm our neighbors . As long as it doesnt cost too much. And then eating away at our collective soul. Host thank you for joining tv this is that monthly in Depth Program to discuss his or her body of work and take the call. This month author, veteran road scholar former investment banker, wes moore. His book the other west more came out 2010. The work, 2015. The most recent book the fiery reckoning of an American City. Also wrote discovering westmore a young adult to take on the other west more. And a novel called this o way home which came out 2016. Here is how you can participate in our o conversation. What is a visitation process like. It is change now with covid19 wes has not been allowed to have visitors. The right now it is pretty restricted its amongst people they are pretty lockedin now 23 hours that prior to that honestly it is an onerous process because is not like there is heavy encouragement snd often times you look at the situation so its not an easy process and then once you do it is an allday process and then to go into your searches and then you can wait for hours and then its a restricted time. To interact so to stay in touch its a simple thing but not an easy process. Even with Telephonic Communications that exist onright now that are actually charging an exorbitant amount of money despite those that are currently incarcerated and despite the fact if the person can keep contact with family and while they are incarcerated with reentry back into society so the vast majority of people with life sentences or long sentences and the fact to make it so complicated and to make that transition back benefits nobody. Host can you pinpoint the point in your life where you can see yourself as the other westmore . One thing that got me is in many ways arbitr