Recognize the wonderful work you have done as an author and activist and as a political operative yourself. I do believe it will get the book that you have written and provided us with insight that is oftentimes not part of the political politics but welcome. Guest thank you so much. I am so happy to see you. I know all of us arent quarantined so its nice to see peoples faces and to see they are safe and healthy because it is scary times. Happy to be here. Host i wanted to get started and all the work youre doing is so relevant and i thank you have the bona fide and work part of the hilary quinn to campaign and you have your own progressive show and those of us both got to know each other because we both provide analysis on an msnbc and yet if the campaigns and the Mainstream Media we forget the narratives that are propelling this action we are seen in the streets and hopefully will translate to the voting booth. Lets talk about what that means. I know in your book you touch on identity politics as embracing identities other than those that are white, male or hetero normative. One Clinical Campaign based on need and experiences of those identities. You shared this is the future. What does it take to have understanding of what a tentative politics really are . Guest i think after 2016 in particular identity politics got a bad rap. There was a time originally coined by feminists in 1937 who lay out and articulate how people who have marginalized identities can, you know, build coalitions to obtain political power and one of the things after 2016 we did it say Hillary Clinton paid identity politics by talking about Racial Justice and talking about White Privilege openly and directly in talking about the deferring identities of people with event abilities and she had a rip in her thumb about identities and how it intersects. What we didnt realize in 2016 is that she was talking about identity politics but so was donald trump. Donald trump was talking about white identity and too often politics we sent her whiteness or sensor white voters and in every single aspect of our political conversation in the message and so my book basically lays out the fact that weight, hold up, we cant criticize identity politics just because its finally black people and latin ask people asserting their rights to pertain political power and representation just because we are doing it doesnt make it a bad thing. Donald top utilized it to his benefit and weights, we will be the majority soon so maybe host good i cut and, thats often times talk about identity politics is oftentimes divorced from economic inequities but that really is the underlying. If i apply for a job and im discriminated against based on who i love that affects my economic but if i cannot get a promotion because of the color of my skin or because i havent accent that is an economic injustice. Talk about this because when trump talks about white grievance he does it in a coded way but in the end of the day its because everyone feels like they have less Economic Opportunity so lets talk about that. Guest i feel like what he played upon was economic anxiety in the country and in covid we are seen that unfold because people lost their jobs and Health Insurance and a sense of security that they once baby only had a piece up and out they deftly know that is an illusion print one of the things we think to understand in this moment and with don prompted is that he played into the anxiety and the real anxiety of people feeling because we just were coming out of the greatest recession before covid since the Great Depression and i was impacting workingclass people and the majority of minimum wage workers are women of color. It is impacting particular communities and their ability to take care of themselves and their families. But donald trump played into a real grievance, i think, and a feeling of insecurity that pitted white voters against everyone else saying those people over there, those latinx people, black people, those people were the reason why you feel less secure and your household and that is why you feel that you have less economic security. He pitted different people and that is why people describe in 2016 campaign as divisive. I think that the reason why it worked is because america does have to deal with, and a real way, part of that is why there is a racial reckoning in this moment is the history we have had on race and racism and white supremacy. Host and it is rooted in our institutions and rooted even in our political operatives on both sides of the aisle. Speak to that experience as a political operative being the only oftentimes only woman of color and oftentimes the only young person trying to change a democratic machine that oftentimes only brings and consultants from the midwest and oftentimes relate their own experience. Guest yeah, sometimes frustrating on campaigns but i do think in the Hillary Campaign you will see in the book it was very diverse. In terms of comparing it to other president ial campaigns in more black women in the campaign in history and many people from different trinities but the problem is with an organization of that size what ends up happening is youre still the only black person in the meeting and Running Campaign against donald trump who is explicitly racist and divisive on that issue specifically. Its important to have people in the roles that come from that background and are being directly attacked and to understand White Privilege and waits of primacy and how it manifests in our world and how it impacts peoples lives and how it is infused in our policies and in our messaging and media and how all of that works together and for me on the inside it was like, you know, filling in the void like am i the only one host sometimes . [laughter] lets be honest, one of the challenges it is so difficult because 40 of america are people of color. 135 million of us are strong and that my children who are seven, eight and six represent the first majority Minority Community but if you are to look at the fact that 40 of us are the ones that color of community but when it comes to electing a democrat if it affects disproportionately white women that bring in that president ial power but those numbers and that parity is not reflected in those campaigns. Guest absolutely not. That is one of the ones i highlighted that we focus in on the highlights for you dont need to win a majority of the white or a president ial election but this all breaks down with congressional districts depending upon the particular constituency but for the most part you are on the democratic side or Diverse Communities but black ground young people, single or unmarried women or single women married white women were republican and we look at the data and who voted for who and who is formally on our side. Guest white males have not voted the majority. Theyre not voted for a democratic president since lbj that is how do we bring those trump voters back but what im hearing you say and what is on my experience why focus on the decrease while you have a whole open market of unregistered disproportionately young people of color that would welcome your politics because that is what they are protesting. Guest what i think weve seen in the covid area and youve seen so many people go into the streets and these movements and protests are being led by young woman woman of color and a love that it is so inspiring but part of what i think the Democratic Party has an opportunity in this moment. You can gauge both people directly on the issues that they care about because ultimately i think there are shared goals but they may not be specific bill or whatever medicare for all policy and the details but certainly Health Insurance for more people is something everybody agrees upon, equality and justice upon the law or things that are people protesting and they can all agree upon those goals. What is missing is being represented within campaigns in one of the things we talk about is there is no campaign for little black kids but when they wrote the book there were a few examples of Campaign Organizations like kohler pack and organizations that just preferred doing work and training people to run for office but i really think the punchline of young staffers of color but if you have graduated and dont have your internship or your High School Student waiting to go back to School Getting back to the campaign virtually because that hands on expansive allows people to impact the world around them and sometimes people only think of testing and activism is a way to be engaged but i also think working on campaigns to your point about the fact that you can beat the only one and you would be the only one if we had everyone going into campaigns to try to work there. Host what is your advice for the first diversification in the campaigns . You and i both know that he gets to a certain point that it is sort of like oftentimes its not the person wellversed or the person you know so how do they break through and one of my critiques historically in many campaigns is that they bring in these bright young people of color to knock on doors and do all the work but then they dont see them in leadership roles but they do see them in the roles that are not necessarily passionate but not necessarily the best paid. Guest that the good point to. In 2016 on the campaign we talked about traditionally how democratic campaigns with put people of color in the field out in the community and the optics of that is all wrong and that they staged a protest in 1988 was essentially the first impact we need to be at the seat of power or the table where provisions are being made. Part of that is putting them in all different aspects of the campaign and one of the cooler things about the 16 campaign, even though i have certain critiques of it is the presence of black women in the tech and Digital Department with a black woman created time or a black woman coated the website and Hillary Clinton. Com so just understanding that you need those people reflected in all aspects because then you also, you know, you have that diverse set of eyes and those blind spots that always come up when it campaign may put out messaging that is tone deaf or misses the mark and you will have people in their to make sure you dont have so many missteps as well. Host what would your recommendation to the Joe Biden Campaign . What would your recommendation be because she is the nominee. Guest he needs to do a mass hiring of young women of color that are either on summer break, at home for high school and maybe there are sorority and they can get connected that way on their campuses but there needs to be a very concerted effort to engage young diverse voters so that they actually feel seen. Stacy abrams talked about identity politics and being the flipside or i see it flipside as i dont see color but she puts it this way and says i see you. I see the full sum experience and who you are and i see that you are woman and i see that you are black and i see that matters but thats an important thing. I think with joe biden needs to do is see if he makes the constituencies he would like to engage and turn out hopefully in november he needs to make them feel seen and heard but yeah, tab the movement and engage with the campaign they need to speak on regular basis. I hope they are and i know some of this they are doing but they dont seen enough from the outside and that is the critique that i think a lot of people had in 16 and we would be like we are doing it and then they would be like well i did not see it so that is part of it to. Host the most traditional campaigns are used to doing Television Advertising and they dont recognize that oftentimes young people the voters that she wants are not on tv or watching tv. Guest what my favorite so far [inaudible conversations] host organizing all we need to show about what happens during the trump rally where they mobilized the worldwide to get free tickets to his rally and they expected his Campaign Manager was touting a Million People were coming because of the demand and less than 6000 showed up and then got trolled by the generation z but i point to that because one of the things you talk about is kids and what that means and when you say that biden may not be connecting we know he is not connecting and we get did a survey where 46 of young latinos expected to participate and even then they were soft and that is code red for me because unlike an africanamerican White Communities where the parents forced their kids to go vote it is the young latinos that force their parents to go vote so talk a little bit about the power of their voice and how do you communicate to them . Guest the kids is about the millennial activism and parkland march for our lives and also daca, kids who have been using social media to organize. [inaudible conversations] guest they understand how to use it as a tool and they know its not a beall, endall. I think theres a lot of critiques of activism which is why i wanted to like this chapter because ive long been a proponent of twitter to create a space to have a dialogue or what used to be better for this but you could have a backandforth about something that was uncomfortable to talk about in person. We seen this with metoo an progress matter. One of the things i think is important about the is to understand that the kids get intersection analogy. The understand identity matters and understand that you should respect peoples identity and they understand that people who have different backgrounds should be treated the same in a fundamental old way and in a different way that maybe our parents or even my generation. I think that they have grown up with income inequality and grown up with wars in iraq and afghanistan and grown up with systemic issues being right in their faces and then they have the ability to go on tiktok and learn about diplomacy because thats the content that they are watching but they learn about it all and i think the tiktok moment was important to highlight i think and im glad you brought it up because it is one of my favorite things that it is evident joe biden already has an army. And so all he needs to do is well, i guess, and list them is the word but engage them and where they are and i read a couple of things recently where they were debating whether or not they should have a presence on tiktok because it seemed odd that he is so much older but it doesnt have to be him. You could engage those influencers tos beak in the message and then they are speaking to their own people and it is a validation that joe biden is the best choice right now. I think a lot of people there has been a debate on twitter this week host but we have to highlight that this generation seems to be have a different savvy and echoed from aoc and you just said it again and this understanding that we have to have a more pragmatic look of our candidates and this generation is interested saying i do need to be in love but i need to know hes the right choice right now and i dont think that has been communicated enough to them. I think everybody expects the barack obama moment, at least operatives do and independence do but these kids have started in iraq and have had the worst recession in recent memory and they live in Food Insecurity and they have a different savvy and less coddled generation and i know people dont give them that credit but the hardships they face among black and brown communities disproportionately, whether black lives matter or talking about family separation and the anxiety of daca and speak to how, i do believe and thats what your book is getting to with the that they have a different level of maturity when they do expect authenticity. Guest i dont they want to hear platitudes for the understand that platitudes dont lead to action. Platitudes are you telling me what i want to hear but i want you to go do the thing that will help me and that will help my family have more security and safety and i think that fundamentally this generation, because some of the crises that we are facing, when i wrote this book it was all before covid. I had no idea there would be a pandemic however, i would say host i wish you had told me. [laughter] you were the only one. Guest but i was preparing for disaster. Fundamentally as soon as trump was elected in part i during the campaign on the impulse of it might be the end of the world so let me go do my part. Also believing that hillary because i do believe she could be a good president but also i was afraid of donald trump and so when he won i was like preparing for the end of the world literally and that was way before the thought. Host i think your flagging was people of color and people of color pendants and analysts were saying about donald trump and there was a, you know, it was a general folks that making decisions on the stories we cover that anxiety was illfounded but the moment you went down the elevator he told us who he was and so i oftentimes am surprised if people been surprised at how terrible he is. Hes always told us so i guess that goes back to the sensibility of these young, black and brown activists that are, to your point, looking for authenticity and trying to get people to leave them where they are and meet their needs so how does that change in a pandemic where we see people marching for george floyd and expecting change while the rest of the world is upturned. I say this because unlike, you know, counter to most beliefs we did a poll and 75 of latinos are in lockstep with black lives matter and when we look at Younger Voters that we talk to, thats even a bigger. What significance do you see if you are reading the tea leaves . Guest i think the opportunity is thats a Winning Coalition of voters and not just because they can potentially win elections but they can receive legislators and reshape congress and reshape the entire country because when you have voting power and the numbers and you can build a coalition that can then elect the people that can help your communities and fundamentally that is why Voter Suppression is a strategy and why they try to profess the vot