Become known as the 8 10 check who likes to dance. Thanks for having me on. I went from being a motion sick little girl to being our first woman in us history to fly a fighter jet in combat and when obama was finally made, it was against the law, it was against policy i broke through that barrier putting women and girls behind me and it was not an easy journey and you know, i was trying to show i could fly the jet. Doesnt matter if youre a boy or a girl, it just cares whether you can fly and shoot straight but it was a challenging time so i decided to beat them at their own game. One of those things was turning the back over a little while i shared how somebody said that to me and i thought if i died tomorrow is is the last day that i have on this planet after all the effort i tried to make a difference in others lives, if thats how im going to be remembered so i quit. When you talk about giving, youre talking about chewing tobacco. I know thats gross to people but you got to read the book to understand the context of that whole journey. What is an a10 . Is called a war on and it was made to go after soviet tanks on the frontline and it was designed for what we call Close Air Support total folklore is a dont mistake 30 millimeter gun and went to the engineers and said figure out how to fly this done. Im not sure if its true but its single, theres no qc model and there were no simulators and i went for training so your first flight is so low and went i bring you the con pocket of the a10 in i share that first day and how i had to overcome my own fears and then i take you into the canyons in afghanistan for one of my most complex missions where i had to fly in but everything went wrong so the job has really changed. Its still the same mission but its adapted to the current bike that weve been in where if youre an american on the ground and youre in a firefight is often very complex , very close proximity, good guys and bad guys. We take off in order to provide that firepower overhead and its very important that you can deliver that firepower again from three dimensions, looking from above. Youre coming in to be able to ensure that we save american lives and we deliver that firepower on the bad guys and we avoid friendly fire and get them home to their families and lives to fight anotherday. Its so survivable i can talk about it all day as you could tell. We have a titanium around the cockpit to protect us from taking direct hits because its built to be on the front line. We can lose one engine, all our hydraulics are electric and i have holes in the plane and still flyback safely. You quote a fellow pilot as saying flight is like wrestling while doing long division. What does thatmean . I thought it was a great example of career day when one of my friends said in the middle of the resume match if they physically and mentally demanding at thesame time. When we were in afghanistan we would take off on perhaps a routine combat mission, theres nothing routine about it but we would take off with end of every area in afghanistan and we would often be diapered custards were under fire somewhere and we would be given a callsign, a radiofrequency and told go help those guys so youre doing a lot of calculation, a lot of trying to figure out how to insure your weapons your targets. Coordination with your wingmen and you can have one or three people on your way with the guys on the ground in some circumstances you may be conflicting with artillery and theres a lot of timing involved and a lot of physics involved. While the bad guys are trying to take you out and sorting that out mentally and physically is a part of the mission but you come back sometimes from these long flights you would be drenched as if you had entered and im an athlete,. Work out mentally andphysically. Senator, this is a question i have never asked a us senator before but its apropos to you. How tall are you . When i went through trying to get my pilot clearance i was about five foot 3 and a half on a good day. I think you get shorter over time when you get older but i was a littletoo short. But my sitting life, sorry my sitting life, that was short so my leg length was the issue. I couldnt quite meet the standards read like kids you got to be this tall to ride this ride what they did is they put us through sittings in the cockpit because everybodys a littlebit different. Can you see over the dashboard to put it in civilian terms,can you reach the brakes and the runners , can you wish hard old runner because thats what you do to get out of thespin. You have to be able to do that can you function in the cockpit and i pass all those tests so i was cleared to fly by the flight surgeon, by the Instructor Pilot that i kept having bureaucrats that i couldnt fly because of some arbitrary number that they came up with so we pushed hard, we did some creative routes and i share in dare to fly not many people will go through that but they can relate to being frustrated with people trying to take their dream away or having obstacles come up in your own life. So many people are experiencing that right now or having your friends he derailed. People can relate to that a lot in 20 20 so i shared a lesson of persevering and being creative and dont have a chip on your shoulder but find two ways to make your dreams and thatwas eventually cleared to fly. Pockets basically are designed for average height men , is that correct . They were. Just recently the air force announced finally this year that they are doing away with the arbitrary height restrictions and now theyre just treating people as individuals to make sure that their fit to fly. The same thing is an issue if youre too tall. You cant sit in the cockpit you cant close the canopy, youve got to be able to keep your side straight because when you call the injection handles youve got massive key forcesthat could break your back. If your legs are too long you could lose your legs as you go to check out of the airplane so the limitations are there for a reason a lot of , some men and a lot of women miss out on opportunities and arbitrary numbers and theyre finally saying that all these years later. You grow up wanting togo to the air force academy . Not at all. I grew up in a middleclass family and my dad served in the navy before i was born so i grew up with the values of service and hard work and getting a good education but my dad came from humble circumstances but people helped him out. He started working at the age of eight and people believed in him and through using his g. I. Bill he was able to get a good education and he was driven to make a better life for us kids and i really benefited from that but i lost him when i was 12. I should have show this in dare to fly and its destructive as you can imagine, its a girl affected a girls life in a profound way and among other things in between attacks when i was blessed to visit with him he told me to make him proud and he passed away the next day and the day before we were hanging out together as a family this is a sudden shock in my life. My mom, i have was a single mom with five kids and i was back to school as a Public School teacher and i knew education was the key to my future. Those were hard years, very difficult for me as an adolescent but i also wanted to carry on his legacy do something meaningful with my life as i look for opportunities in education i didnt want to battle my mama and i settled into going into the air force academy and you make these decisions when youre 17 so most parents can relate to teenagers being a little flaky trying to find their way and i endup applying to the air force academy and off i went. Applied originally to be a doctor, corrects . I went to the academy i wasnt five to fly because of the height thing but i didnt want to fly. I didnt know what i was talking about i was also a little motion sick as a kid and i thought getting a degree and becoming a doctor was a good path for me. So i went off to the academy and i thought for the first time in my life that just because i was a girl i could do something. I never knew there were restrictions on me and i found that it was against the law the law for women to be Fighter Pilots and im a little pricey, you might be able to tell that so i channeled my feistiness into something positive. I said thats what i want to do just because you said i couldnt and im going to prove you wrong though i had this desire in my heart simply because i said women and girls could not do that. And that charted my very long path to eventually being cleared for takeoff, almost 10 years later. I realize in those formative years that being a doctor was mortified with losing my dad and tied with my grief and trying to save other kids so it was my grief not my calling and i had to let that go. What you remember about your first solo flight . First flight . The low light, i was at the air force academy and we go, we fly in like a little chestnut like what you do get your private pilot license and when the Instructor Pilot saysyoure ready to go you usually do a practice on that day. And then they get out of the airplane and say youre good to go. We use the term often, i was an Instructor Pilot later in other planes, dont do anything dumb, different or dangerous is what they say. When you go for that solo. I remember my heart beating, mouth dry, i cant believe im about to go fly this airplane by myself. And i share again in there to fly how you can overcome your fear and choose to do things afraid read how you can take off afraid like it that day. I wasnt sure i really could do it but my instructor believed in me and other others that had gone before me i took off and i had my first amazing flexible and i continue to push past my fear to be able to fly in combat and lead in combat later in life and everyone can relate to having fear almost paralyzed you and i want to encourage the reader to do things afraid in their own life. The matter if its taking off in a plane, whatever it is thats holding you back. You are one of the top graduates in your class. Did that open up all opportunities for you . It did. I work hard to read theres a lot of highcaliber people go to our military academy and i wanted to be a pilot and i was dealing with this height thing that was holding me back and i was refocused on Pilot Training and as i was getting delayed and derailed i was offered a scholarship to go to harvard so that was an amazing opportunity, between 1988 and 1990 i went to the Kennedy School of government, to get a masters in Public Policy and those are the years the soviet union collapsed and studying International Security was just an amazing opportunity for me. At the time of course i was just trying to buy time to get my pilot clearance but what an amazing educational experience i had to include number internships. And an internship in the pentagon, my second year once a month. Then later on it was given the opportunityto get another masters degree. What an incredible chance i had as this middleclass whippersnapper, just trying to make a difference in the world and do something meaningful with my life but the military gave me these opportunities to get a good education and to command women in combat so those doors were open because i was working hard and excelling at where i was even though there were restrictions on me, i said dont have a chip on your shoulder, keep the dream in your heart you never know when thatopportunity might,. One of the rights of your life you describe as the key 37 to del rio. What does that mean mark. What i shared was many of us can have dreams like i did and many can relate tothis right now and 2020. Many peoples plans have been the rail because of this pandemic i took a route to cause this still didnt change the law. It wasnt there, it was against the law even though i graduated higher than others who performed less than me i still be a Fighter Pilot because i was a girl though i took an assignment to be an Instructor Pilot flying the t 37, wasnt a glamorous job it gave me the opportunity. Youre turning pedestrians and pilots, are often putting you in dangerous tuitions and puking all over you but its important work. But people usually didnt take it but i thought it was a chance for me to keep building my airman ship, excelling, keep growing in my experience as a pilot and keep the door open that if they changed the law and the policy, the law would change at that point the policy wasnt what i felt like it was going to happen soon and i would be ready and i would be leaning forward and building my experience and its exactly what happened. The door open and i was in the right place at the right time with the right experience the reader what your key 37 . I look back and had i not been derailed initially i would not have been in the position to actually have broken the barriers and then the first woman to fly in combat so sometimes you cant see the tour is actually taking you on your path to your destiny and that was my experience. What is the key 37. 1337 is a low wing trainer plane and its no longer flying. It was built i think in the 60s and its sidebyside. Student and Instructor Pilot, very maneuverable and in the six months of piloting every pilot learn how to fly in the t 37. How many women were in your graduating class at the air force academy . A graduated about 1000 cadets and i was in the ninth class with women i think we were about 10 percent at that time so right around 100. From your book dare to fly. Like many young women in a maledominated environment i learned to succeed by being one of the guys. I think a lot of women can relate to this area and it wasnt necessarily a conscious choice and i have three older brothers and one older sister i jumped that i had to fight for my food as a kid but i had to learn how to even though there was an environment everybody was looking at us, how we were going to perform, there was still a lot of naysayers about women being at the military academy. We had to prove ourselves and we had to change peoples minds one at a time. So often times you would think that women often would Work Together but many women can relate to this in maledominated fields. At the time you felt like you were on your own and you just wanted to show you were different patriots as men and women. You wanted to serve just like them so just be one of the guys, blend in. Dont be sticking out in any way, just do your job and do it well and prove you can be a patriot. Was that a good path . Well, it was the path i took when i was young and you cant look back on wisdom in your 50s the decisions you make as a teenager. I feel like at the time in that environment allowed me to succeed and allow me to change a lot of peoples minds, to prove that women did belong sidebyside serving and we are america and we pick the best one for the job even if its a woman, where a meritbased society, thats what were about so it provided the opportunity to open up peoples eyes while focusing on performance. How well are you excelling in those things that are objective . Thats the most important thing in ensuring that people see that we belong serving alongside you. Senator mcsally therewere several times when youpushed back strongly as you described in dare to fly including in saudi arabia , what was that . This was right after we transitioned into fighters and it was the first deployment any woman have been on in fighters and i walked by the beauty and saw a picture of a young woman in saudi arabia with full muslim black gown and head start and at first i thought it was a local woman and then i thought this was the appropriate way to wear a headscarf and i said what is that and it just gripped me that it was law. On so many levels. How we were were we having our usservicewomen where muslim garb when they were deployed . I didnt understand. I was a young captain but i felt this deep conviction that it was wrong i started looking into where did this policy come from and why were they doingit . Did i know i could have walked by bravo and thats one lesson i have in the book. Dont walk by a problem. I saw that even though it didnt apply to me. I looked into it to see where it is coming from, who decided this, what are they doing it and the standup and say that its wrong and needs tochange. Itll did i know it would be an eight year journey and that journey with years later, and then ordering me over to saudi arabia, telling me to sit in the backseat of the car and slipped the bird on myself, telling me we should lie and have a servicewomen claim me as their wife instead of their boss or their fellow servicemen if we were offbase and we raise these questions and i can believe it so i went up and down the chain of command for many years trying to get this changed. I shared this and its two chapters because it is a long story of one person standing up to make a difference and i shared the secretary of defense and ended up working for thelegislation. Never would have asked for this battle but i would do it again because it was against our values and i believe its against our constitution that we even use taxpayer money to buy this religious star and forth it on women serving in their official capacity area it didnt make any sense and in and i won this battle but it wasnt an easy one. You dont wake up and say im going to see the secretary of defense today. But it shared a little bit of my lessons of dont walk by a problem and if you think something is wrong do something about. Persevere, there arecreative ways to change it. And your ground, continue to look for ways to make a difference and even if it comes at personal cost to you. I was in saudi arabia last year driving a car and wearing regular clothes and it was ultimate closure for me of that very long battle. That battle began with a pair of sweatpants and ended with you asking a public question to secretary william perry. It did. From my base in kuwait they were making us wear long baggies sweatpants all the time on base. Whatever the temperature was outside. When youre trying to exercise which you need to do to stay safe as Fighter Pilots it was another ridiculous policy of a little Cultural Senate sensitivity run, where americans were doing this to our own people so i was being irritated by that double standard in kuwait and ultimately i have to make a decision whether i was going to seek out, that was my first cup decision when secretary perry came to visit or whether i was going to be silent and do what was bestfor me this was not an easy decision. I share calling back to a mentor and asking for advice, i didnt want to do it. I was trying to keep my head down and show women belong and the last thing i wanted to do was raise a womens issue. We were still transitioning into fighter but my mentor told me to read the book of esther and i share this story in dare to fly and the line hit me , can it be that you were put in this position for such a time as thi