Together in person, although very much hope will be sometime soon. But in the meantime its nice to connect this way and stay tuned come the Manhattan Institute putting together a ton of virtual content that they will be rolling out over the next few months. So look at your in boxes for some information about those events coming to you shortly. In the interim i am so pleased to welcome my guest, douglas murray, to our event this afternoon. Douglas is a journalist, and im sure many of you if not all have read his work on the pages of the wall street journal, the National Review or of course in the spectator where he is an associate editor but this is also an author most recently as 2019 book the madness of crowds and he was with us in person at the Manhattan Institute i think in early 2018 and i was just after the publication of this book, the strange death of europe. Douglas is a Formidable Political critic and while he is an observer of all things, you can the uk and im sure u. S. , unless renew the subjects of his most recent book and this one would come into play so much during this particular moment in time, but they have and its for that reason and many others that it is my pleasure to welcome you, douglas, who are event this afternoon. Thank you very much, vanessa. Its a great place to be with you and all your members. Thank you. The way this will work, douglas and i will talk for the next 20 minutes or so and that which point we will turn it over to the q a, to you, the audience. If you look at the right insided side of your screen does a little widget and a little triangle with the word question. You can type in questions anytime douglas and i are speaking and when we turn over to the q a portion of the event i will be looking at the list and pulling your questions from douglas at that time. With that were going to jump right in. Obviously weve all been through and are continuing to go through a rather serious moment in history and we will all be doing a lot of selfevaluation as far as how our governments have handled this moment. We will be looking comparatively across nations to see if theres something we can learn to handle the moment better than we are, and its in part for the reason we are so happy to get a little check in with our friends over in england. Douglas, i would like to start with this sort of political moment that the uk find itself. On january 31th, i dont need to tell you, but the uk left the European Union and started a transition period back, which was on a think about 11 months, so short anyway and the moment in time with a future relationship between the uk and the eu would be determined. My question for you is whats going to happen now . In theory your political leaders are a little bit distracted to the kind of negotiation that would normally happen, got to be complicated in this moment. Are we going to have an agreement by the 31st of december . Yes. Whether we get an agreement i dont know but the government wants to get an agreement by then absolutely. I question came up in the house of commons just earlier today from a member of the liberal Democratic Party questioning michael goes and he was very plain once again that there will be no delay even a minor delay in this process. I think by the way thats right, whatever attitude one takes to brexit and britains exit from the eu, its profoundly important i think for the British Public who of course did vote by majority, a small majority but the majority nonetheless to leave the European Union. But after three and half years of parliamentary shenanigans and other factors that were going on that appeared to be trying to delay or indeed reverse the decision to leave the eu, absolutely crucial, particularly and the government led by this Prime Minister with his cabinet that they are seen not reneging on that promise. Even something as major as the current corona crisis isnt going to make them persuaded that they should anyway move that timeline. But if no agreement is reached and would enter a moment in time where theres even more uncertainty, is that going to be good for the british economy in this particular its no good for anyones economy the situation were in at the moment. We barely have the con eds in the moat in some countries. This is totally uncharted territory. I just repeat the point that the crucial thing is that, firstly, we never are in certain times. These may be especially Uncertain Times with a factor just thrown in that had it been certainly expected by brainy people, but the Brexit Process has to be separate from that. Its a commitment of the British Government and i would be very surprised if it wasnt followed through on. I got just this week in the formal trade talks between the uk and america have started up so theres a lot actually going on, although obviously the main preoccupation is the virus. So the coronavirus at this stage has not in your mind derailed this transition process. Has there been any other sort of fundamental changes that you see coming to the uk as a result of the Coronavirus Spread aside . None other than the challenges that every country is going through. Obviously all of our countries as you will know from u. S. , all of our country are looking around the globe for potential best practice and much more, the figures just came in about an hour ago suggesting that the uk has back at the highest death toll in europe of deaths of people who died with the virus so far. And there would be lots of going over why that came about. Theres already been a lot of postmortem, but the postmortem is a bit premature. How are the british people thinking about issues like globalization . I know in the u. S. This is the question about supply chains, where were getting our mass, drugs, all of those type of things. Is there a stronger argument now antiglobalization happening in the uk . I think the argument is happening everywhere, isnt it . Its happening in every single country. Not least because in the early stages of this crisis we all thought things that were extremely alarming. We all saw example of someone has written an awful lot on European Affairs and traveled a lot of in europe and across europe, seeing for instance, in the early days of the crisis when italy was suffering worse, seen the german and french governments going protectionist on certain products. Masks, oxygen, this sort of thing. The italian public has just seen an enormous swing against the eu. I think it was rightly enraged by the countries that of lectured people most on protectionism in recent years, actually when the crisis hit, doing something that was completely against everything he had said before. So i think theres a lot of looking around and a lot of lessons already been taken, but it will be sometime before we see the effects of that in polls or anything in the Voting System or anything else. Lets talk for a second about general public sentiment in the uk right now. Here in the u. S. Theres a pretty strong divide of people who believe that this moment in time is further evidence of massive government incompetence, and then there are those that are taking this as an opportunity to say, government required more control and more intervention to be able to handle the situation better. Doesnt matter which cant get in, trust is at an alltime low here in the u. S. , which has created a number of problems for us. Is that the same thing over in england . Are you experiencing that same sort of divide . No, not especially. I think thats a particularly unamerican thing going on thats fairly unique to america, sadly, at the moment. In the uk we get seen a rise in trust of almost every institution. That includes parliament, the government, the monarchy, the nhs, scientist, scientific experts, academics and so on. As someone who spends part of my time in the press when im not writing books i dont exactly pleased me to say but im not surprised to say that the institution that has fallen in the publics opinion the most have been the press, the media, which has collapsed in public trust and theres interesting reasons for that. But that aside one of the most interesting things about the uk example is been that although we have been said to have been a divided country in recent years much like america has been, in fact, when the scientists got together and the chief scientific advisors were brought in front of the nation with advice given at the locket was instituted, that was acted upon and then there was not it was not this ongoing divide that is certainly going on in america where ethan Global Pandemic is inevitably seen through the pro or antitrump prism, and that is a particular challenge for your country because if Something Like this cannot bring a sort of common cause or show people the common wellsprings to drop on, then one wonders what it would take. Everywhere else i think its not as extreme as the u. S. , that divide. Amazing to see walking your streets, how nicely all of your neighbors have participated in trying to keep everyone safe. So from a human to Human Interaction theres been a very quick change over into whats best for everyone, but when it comes to the political divide everything continues to be seen right to the antior pro trump lens. Your Prime Minister was a certain parts of the country controversial. I do you put on unity and im wondering though if right now people are really standing behind him, not on because of its leadership in the smoke but also because hes one of the few Global Leaders who had a personal interaction with the virus. Hows everybody thinking about him of these days . And the most serious. I think we, a lot, the country didnt know quite how serious it was until it was announced that he got into intensive care, but im told over those few days there were certainly moment when the expected to lose him, which wouldve been catastrophic i think for the uk. Not least because Boris Johnson is an important not just at this point but in this period of british life. It was very close and i think the way he came out of hospital and he had a very great moving message about the nhs doctors who saved his life, and he said that was something which the public could relate to. Now of course there is a followon from that which is politically, this means its exceptionally hard for the labour party, the labour party, left, to claim in future that the conservatives do not care about nhs. Every election in my lifetime labour party has run on three weeks to save the nhs, 40 hours to save nhs. The nhs is still there since was created in the wake of the cycle will dwarf but its striking that the idea that you could pretend after this that the nhs is something that everybody does not support would seem preposterous but i think it is undoubtedly something that would be a certain weight on the conservatives with the debt that Boris Johnson himself as president said he owes to the nhs. This will even either be good s for the health service. He names his new baby, right, after his doctor. Thats right. Very moving, very moving. Yes, for sure. Lets talk for just a second about the monarchy because here in the u. S. The American Public follows very closely the relationship of the royals. I think theres a whole generation of americans a forgotten the monarchy has a leadership role to play, and a big role in public unity, and it seems like this is a real moment most people i know watched the queens address here in the u. S. And felt comforted by your guess at the same reaction you are having . Very much so. It was interesting that again, in recent years weve had every institution having claimed to be losing public trust and so on. It was profoundly moving that at the worst time of this in the uk, the one person we really wanted to or from was her majesty, the queen. Andrew address was remarkable. Not least because she is one of the only people i think probably the best person on earth to draw on the historical aspects of this. I had to say we have had been h bad times before. We have been through worse times before and we have come through them. And somebody who gave her first broadcast to the nation as a young girl in 1940 when her late sister, princess margaret, the young princess address the children of Great Britain and the empire, it was a very moving thing to see her able to draw on the historical memory, and to give this reassurance. As i say, the media much more inevitably likes to see things in the catastrophic terms of possible. In other people do. Theres always a risk of increasing fear and a public, but its crucial that you have some public figure, and in the uk we have at least this one who can draw on our historical feelings, draw on our, her own historical experience, and to say as she did, we will act now in a way that makes people in the future look back at us to say they were equal to the forebearers. Of course the problem about this is the corona lockdown continues to most people sitting around in their pajamas watching netflix and is not quite stormed the beaches of normandy. If this generation is challenge indeed to the fitness to sit this out i think there would need encouragement to do so and the queen certainly provides that. When we think about some of the challenges that our generation now will be facing, theres certainly not remotely the same, the ones you just described that you did then some of this challenge in your most recent book, the madness of crowds. A big part of that book was talking about the rights of the social justice and identity Politics Movement into mainstream politics, into the media, the workplace. And i dont know how things look for you folks, but here it took i would say about two minutes once the coronavirus had really wouldve ascended, took about two minutes for the various advocates and political organizations that exist to use the crisis to unleash a torrent of commentary and content that reverse engineered the pandemic through their own ideology. They have use covid19 as evidence for the need of these in our country of singlepayer health care, family leave, the new deal. I mean, they have been fast and sophisticated, and its going to be problematic for us in so many ways. Are you seeing that same massive resurgence very quickly in the uk . I think this is part of relates to the question you asked earlier about the globalization critique. My own expectation with this virus is that it makes people double down on what they already thought. That doesnt mean it would get much reach with it. But just as, for instance, their event certain figures in the eu who always want to full sovereignty more, who has said the coronavirus is evidence for why we need to pool sovereignty more. Similarly politicians like in italy advocates tighter borders. The justification of tighter border policy. Everyone can do this in every angle and away and the identity, just the identity movements and the social Justice Thomas and others, and no exception to that extent. It took slightly longer here than it did there for people to Start Playing the sort of social justice identity warrior game, but they started inevitably come people who started by saying women suffer more than men from the virus, and then when the statistics show actually mails were disproportionally likely to die of the virus, a double deficit amid might be doing that die at it is women who are doing the suffering. The debates about which ethnic minorities may amend or may noe suffering more from it, and the presentation of those questions instead of being questions about why might that be, simply the presentation of anything yet more evidence of the racism of the society we live in so that we cant even get a virus from china without it justifying the view that america is actually a racist society of revenues and so on. All of that has been going on. My prediction of it is that what will happen is those people doubled up as they all have something because thats the only game they know how to play. I dont know how to look at the world and let look to the spectacles. An intelligent person or or social person might work out at a time like this, if something comes along that you never thought about before, its possible that all of your preexisting views may not be justified and vindicated i can rival of this virus. You might think you might need to talk about something else. But those people will not because this is the one minsk ii which they see everything. What i would expect and would predict is there will be less wider public sympathy for the claims that are being made because as i wrote the other week in the spectator, when an awful lot of people in the country have a declining living standard, when an awful lot of people have seen unemployment, through their families, their own homes, when an awful lot of people have got real grievances, its fairly unlikely to my mind that people want to spend very much time listening to people with made up grievances. So you think maybe those groups are overplaying their hand right now. Three much so, very much so. I cant see the celebrities who sit back in the house complaining about the awfulness of having to spend all this time cocooned in their mansion. That doesnt play well at the moment anywhere. The people who have been saying look at me in recent years. Its interesting the wells we draw on our different in uk the process got most of the public affection who weve not heard of recently is a summit has been doing the look at me, look at what effective i am narrative but and now 100yearold exservicemen who raise tens of millions of pounds for the nhs by doing face sponsored walks. My impression is thats the sort of thing people will want narratives of resilience rather than narratives of suffering and victimhood. And in own lifetimes that narrative emerged. It wasnt the case even in the 1990s that if you proved you were a victim you sort of won the game of life. That happened very recently and so it can change back and it wouldnt be surprised if the current, the crisis which will come after this crisis, the crisis to which this may only be the prelude, wouldnt do something to bring about the death of that movement. Im just letting our audience know, and to submit we will turn to your questions so feel free to type them in the widget on the righthand side. I want to cover one more thing people