Transcripts For CSPAN2 In Depth Wes Moore 20240712

Welcome to booktv and in depth. This is our Monthly Program with one author talking about his or her book and we are pleased this month to be joined by wes moore, the author of three books, plus a Childrens Book and novels. His first book came out in 2010 the other wes moore, and the other in 2015 and his most recent book is about baltimore during the arrest and death of freddie gray that just came out. In your book you write that the military saved your life. What do you mean by that . Guest the military plays an incredibly Important Role in my life where some of the most important times inn my life are where i was wearing the uniform in this country. I was first introduced when i was aboutys 13yearsold. I was sent to a military school and i had gotten into some issues and challenges. My mom threatened to send me away to p military school, and every year i kept blowing it off. The first time i felt handcuffs on myrs wrist is that 11yearsold. My mother noticed i was intentionally hurting people that leften me. So finally one day she came up to me and said im going to send you to military school. And honestly, i thought that she was kidding or exaggerating and finally i realized she wasnt and she sent between mandatory school. I hated every minute of it when i first started. I remember that first those first days there. I ran away multiple times. I noticed the longer i stayed i began to fully understand what it was they were trying to teach me and also with my mom was trying to teach me into the fact we did live in an interconnected environment and how everybody was doing in my unit mattered to help my unit as a whole was doing. When i finished school i got a scholarship offers and i decided that the thing i actually wanted to do and spend my life on so thats when i made the decision i wanted to join the army. My decision to go intohe the ary was both a continuation of the fact i had this level of service and it would help pay for college that was hopeful, but there was also this idea but i felt a bit of gratitude because it was the introduction of the crucial time in my life that helped make what is the difference. Host what was your role in the 82nd airborne . As guest i was a peer trooper with the 82nd airborne division. My final in afghanistan i was the director of publications with the first brigade, so that is a long way of saying that everything we had in the psychological operations was in the entire area of operations which was the regional command east, the entire Eastern Region of afghanistan. I was the directo director of Information Operations for that. So atrg the time, my last assignment when i was leaving afghanistan, we have about 1700 paratroopers that were under our command that we were responsible for, so it was an amazing and aweinspiring experience. Host wes moore, how had you changed after the first year in military school as a 12yearold . Guest 13yearsold. I would say the big thing thats changed for me there was an introduction of leadership. What that means and what it meant and the role they played in my life. Military school gave me the chance in a way it was a remake of identity. There was a chance to rethink my space in society. But also some of the other things that happened. There was an intentional introduction of leadership. Sometimes people say they need military because they need discipline and they will do pushups and wake up early. The reality is you will come ofe things are real and true, but that isnt what made the experience useful for me. The thing m that made useful for me was thishi introduction into this idea that l they are very much going to introduce you to leadership early in a very deliberate way. After you go through the initial basic training, they will put you in charge of something relatively early and relatively small. Its not they will put you in charge of a hallway and say you are in charge of this hallway where you are in charge of the dumpster or whatever. If its clean we will congratulate you, if its a dirty we will h help you. Once you are doing a good job and you will be promoted and move onto the next thing. Now maybe you will have a couple of soldiers under your command, then you move up. So there is a sense of responsibility in the way they treated teach the leadership frameworks that i think are not only useful and important for me but also something that gave me the taste of what was important. So i knew going in that leading people was important to me. I knew going in that whether it was in the case of waiting cadets were soldiers or thinking about the work that we do now, being able to be part of the hoprocess and the person who can help shape the direction of the organizations attitude on things, that became important, and i think both the framework on how to do it and also the introduction is necessity into something the military health to foster. Host how did you become a Rhodes Scholar . Guest the truth is by think about that experience quite a bit. The first time i had a conversation about the scholarship was actually when i was interning with the mayor of baltimore. In that picture hes standing there and pointing towards a picture on his wall and understand he wasnt the type of guy that had camera people following him around all the time, but on that day he said he thought about the Rhodes Scholarship. I told him i heard about it but i havent thought about it. Hes pointing to the class and wheree he was. Thats the momentt he first told me i should consider it. He also gave me instructions and i went and i done just about. I had certain people that helped me with my essays and my lifes journey on the scholarship of petition and then right there in my office is a picture and im clear that the picture would have never happened. It was an experience that i will never forget where i think the plane flew off within two weeks after 9 11 where the nation and the world has changed immeasurably at the same time i was having this experience shaped very much as though by 9 11 especially the fact it was a chance to Study International relations iner a place i was one of only a few americans studyi studying. Studying this with people in your class from brazil, china, nigeria andro argentina, gettina chance to reallyha understand hw all these dynamics take place with some remarkable people whove becomwhobecome some of m. It was a pretty special experience, and i give a lot of things to those that really helped light the path for me and realized that it could be real. Host what is your view about taking money from deceitful words foundation, and what did you tell the overview for . Guest one of the last questions in my interview was because i had spent time in south africa, also i know our history in this country really well one of the last questions i was asked by the chairman of the board, he said youve been to south africa, you are africanamerican, how can you accept the money knowing the history, knowing how he made it and knowing the lives lost in order to make that money. I thought about it and i said no, i know a few things for sure. One is that when cecil rhodes was creating the scholarship, he didnt have meid in mind to be sitting here as a finalist for the money. And he is for the way turning in his grave knowing that im here as a finalist for his scholarship. The other thing and that does show me what progress needs and looks like. The fact something that wasnt at all intended for me that i had an opportunity to model me stand here and utilize it but then also have an obligation to make sure that you do something with it. The other thing i do know is that it was bonny ancestors who fought and bled and built, and where able to build in a way that it created a pathway for me, who were able to sacrifice and dream for a world that they didnt see, but to train and fight for one that hopefully one day i would see. And for me to have the opportunity then to be there in that seat, for me to have an opportunity to then take the privilege of that seat took about in spite of the worlds fight, i thought it would be disrespectful not to. When you are looking at the history of cecil rhodes and looking at the history of the entire South African region and the damage that he gave to the people there for his own personal benefit to the point at the time he was the wealthiest man in the world. It isnt lost on me. It is also not lost on me the obligation that i now have to use the benefit those of us thought long and hard for me to use thats now to make sure that they can create a more just and fair world. R host wes moore, where did you grow up . Guest i spent part of my childhood growing u up in maryld and part of my childhood in the bronx. I called to place his home. One is baltimore. Actually, where i live now. I was born a little way closer to the dc area. And then new york, where i spent part of my childhood after my dad died. My dad was a radio personality in the baltimore and dc area. One day he was complaining about his throat and saying how it was bothering him and he couldnt sleep. He went to the hospital the next day. A lot of assumptions were made when he walked into theum hospil stay looking for help. When my mom finally made it to the hospital to join, they asked questions like is your husband prone to exaggeration. They gave him instructions to go home and rest and if it got worse then to come back. Five hours they released him and he died. Thats when we were living in maryland. My mother had a difficult time with the transition at that point and finally called up her parents and my grandparents were livingth in the bronx. My grandfather was a minister in the south bronx and my grandmother was a schoolteacher in the south bronx. Their house was barely big enough for them but they made a way to get all of us, so we ended up moving out there. At that point, after moving up there, thats where i spent a good six to seven years of my childhood for a young discipline to military school in pennsylvania. Childhood was a lot of moving around. But thehe thing i knew is no matter where we moved around to, i had have a remarkable loving family that i was blessed to be able to say with what they have, they tried to provide for us as best they could, and it was something i always felt. Host fromom your first book the other wes moore, my father was dead five hours after having been released from the hospital with a simple construction to get some sleep. The same hospital was now preparing his body for the morgue. Hemy father entered seeking heah but his face was unshaven, his clothing disheveled, his name unfamiliar and his address loss in a familiar area. Lye hospital looked at him, insulted him with ridiculous questions and basically told him to fend for himself. Now my mother had to plan his funeral. Why do you think those assumptions were made . Guest race. Actually, i think its really one of th heartbreaking things, and i think about it a lot both with where we are now, and also when people say at what point in your life did you know or did you understand the impact of race in the world. And as you just listed out, it was the earliest points people are treated differently. When i think about the many systems that we have in place in our society, whether it is our healthcarhealth care system or n system or whether it is Environmental Justice or educational justice, its impossible to talk about these things without understanding the role that it plays because it isnt lost on me and it will never be lost on me. In fact, have those factors been different ha if it had been mentioned before, there would have been a benefit of the doubt was given. Had the benefit of developing giving, we wouldnt have had the same type of revolts. Results. And this is something that i know is not just anecdotal. There is data that continues to reinforce the fact that race is one of the most predictable indicators for the outcomes across several areas, across education and across mortality and mental and physical health. So, i the thing that made that real in the case of thinking about my Family History is this idea that i know that its inescapable to not understand and embrace the impact of race. Host who was the other wes moore . Guest the other wes moore is a young man i heard about actually at the same time that i was getting ready to head off. The baltimore sun, my hometown paper, was writing an article about this local kid that just received a scholarship and they were writing about my background and childhood. They were writing about the fact that just ten years ago i had handcuffs on my wrist and now ten years later i was getting ready to go on a full scholarship and for that lookedd like in the period. But at thehe same time they were writing about an armed Jewelry Store robber where four guys went into a Jewelry Store and put everybody on the ground and spend the next guy i guys walken they pulled out of malice. One with the guy with a gun and one with a mallet. They were keeping them on the ground and Walking Around in smashing out jewelry cases in taking out watches and rings and necklaces. One of them yelled lets go and all of them ran out at the parking lot. One of the people was an off Duty Police Officer if she was a 13 year veteran and threetime recipient and also a father of five he was in the area because it was his day off and she was trying to make extra money for his family. He got up off the ground and drew his weapon and when he ran outside he started kneeling next to cars and vehicles to get cover. What he didnt realize is that when he was kneeling next to a window rolled down and he was shot three times at pointblank range and killed. There ended up being a 12 day manhunt and one of the people was captured and tried and sentenced for the crime was a guy that was also named wes moore. The more that i learned about this crime, the more i learned about this tragedy, often times the morning there were questions i wanted to ask. One day i decided to write a note and the first one i wrote was my name is wes, and heres how i wrote about you. I grew to the Correctional Institution where i knew he was at the time. So that is who he was and that change the way that i thought about the world. Because he did have an important reminder. That his story could have been mind one mine and my story could have been his house in that decisionmaking is how a small decision that we make sometimes its lack of options but we cannot be so quick to castigate unless we can understand the things that make our stories rich so that the neighborhoods that we are growing up in was screaming to them about what we want and expect from them. Talking about baltimore and the fact that we were living blocks away from each other said you think we are a product of our environment he said beer products of our expectations. And as soon as he said that he is absolutely right we are products of expectations someone said its a shame that you lived up to your expectation and the real shame is we both did. Because thats exactly we have structured the system where people live up toon their expectations so what expectations do we actually hav have. Host you quote the other wes more from everything you tolds m me, both of us did some pretty wrong stuff when we were younger and both had Second Chances but if the situation or the context if it doesnt change then Second Chances dont mean to match. Thats right its interesting to see who gets a Second Chance and for what. That is important for me to him appreciate every one of us needs a Second Chance. I tell people all the time two steps forward and one step back. That is now. So the idea Second Chances was a very humanistic need but we are not structured to do is to have parity or equal apportionment. Right now we still know from every single measure to have massive disparities of how the Second Chances are allocated and what we have Second Chances for. We have People Living in poverty how does it show itself . The air they are drinking by the air they are breathing and water they areat drinking. So if you are creating a concentrated level of poverty and injustice that exist and colorcoded, we know this idea behind Second Chances is fleeting. So that experience continue long after the book and to say respectfully i know why he is there but i do know i even give them an opportunity to mean something that is crucial. Host what did he think about you telling his story . I have a friend who is a remarkable writer, a real writer. She puts out a lot of books and his talented that she would always ask s about wes. I knew about him for years before this idea she would always ask and i would give the update. She set i thank you should write about this. I think there is a bigger story to be told. I want to dig that deeply into his life for my own. And i said ive been approached about writing your story on our lives and relationship. Immediately he said i thank you should do it. He said i wasted every opportunity i had in life and i will die in here. If you can do something to help people understand the consequences of theirp decision but also theds neighborhood these decisions are made and then you should do it. That became the fire and the focus. Not just the consequences and with the context of the decision thats soon after the book was published my editor said we just received word they want to do an oped with the other wes more and he is a fantastic writer and bestselling author and a progressive and brilliant. He said i really enjoyed this book it was a great examination of race and class in our society. Three weeks later the editor sayswe we just received word Michael Gershon wants to write an oped with the basis of your book who is a former speechwriter for president bush, washington post, conservative. He says i really enjoy the other wes more a great examination of personal responsibility and individual choice. This is fascinating to people like it for two completely Different Reasons. My wife said who is right . Id, said honestly they are both right. You cant talk about societal responsibilityet understanding at the end of the day it is all an individual choice. Either good or bad. However you cannot talk about individual choice without understanding these are made in as societal context. That does influence so all of those things help to tie in that was illuminating to me and also very humbling to see how it has translated across communities it was a devils for again where how much pain are we willing to tolerate with our neighbors as long as it does impact us too much. That is eating away at our collective so walt. Host thank you for joining usth on the tv we have one author discussing his or her body of work. This month is former investor baker Rhodes Scholar wes more. His book the other wes more and 2010 and the work 2015. The most recent is five days. We want he also wrote discovering wes more a young adult take on the other wes more and a novel called this way home 2016. What is the visitation process like to get into the prison in maryland . It has changed now due to covid19 he is not been allowed to have visitors and months. And to be honest im not sure when that will be lifted right now it is pretty restricted not even access but among people that they are pretty lockdown now in their individual cells due to covid19 23 hours a day. Its an onerous process because its not like there is heavy encouragement for people to have outside communication with friends and family to come visit. If you look at situations the facilities are nowhere near the majority of people that are held actually live so its not an easy process for people to visit. Wants you do it is an all day process. There is no quick pop in. You go in and go through your searches and then you can wait for hours before you have a chance to see the s person and then it is a restricted time. Is not an easy process to stay in touch. And that that she exist that exist the exorbitant amount of money to stay in touch despite the fact the vast majority of people who are incarcerated that they are continuing to show if a person can keep contact and then they have that chance of reentry back into society because the vast majority of people are not there fores life sentences they will be entering society so to make that so complicated to make the transition back benefits nobody because these people are returning back to society at some point. Host pinpoint where you can see yourself as the other wes more cellmate . Yes. What got me about the whole process was how in many ways arbitrary and deliver it the way the structure is. I remember at 11 having handcuffs on my wrist and at that point no Real Authority or say of how my life would go i remember this idea to be picked up for a collection of different things. So you see how incredibly fickle but also at the same time many communities that are below the poverty line with a very unfair measures that came in when it came w to policing and very unfair force to patrol. So you can absolutely see how thin the line is. I know one of the things i have to credit where i am now that one of thehe greatest gifts god gave me is he gave me my mother all mentors and coaches but there is one thing that serves and that is luck. That shouldnt have to be a prerequisite. Not in the a meritocracy. So one thing that fuels how much how i think about our relationship with wes but also work that i have been asked to do on this planet is eliminating luck as a prerequisite and understanding our own larger conversation we must have to do just that. So i absolutely cannot only imagine t had it not been a series of decisions that he had nothing to do with i dont see a scenario that he shouldnt be right next to me contributing but that is the dynamic and the challenge we have to sort through. Host why did you move back to baltimore . If you Different Reasons. When i came back from afghanistan i had a chance to work in washington i worked as white house fellow working as a Senior Advisor to a cabinet secretary then i was working in finance they are and doing well and getting promoted and finding a role in the world and the way my mind works is more quantitative numbers mean more than words which is ironic i decided to become an author but i knew that something was missing i knew i wanted to spend my time to focus on the s things that made my heart to beat faster and that wasnt finance ort banking. I remember having a conversation with my old boss andwas still at citigroup said i think i want to do something different. He said you cant hop out and hopped back in so if you make this decision its pretty permanent. I said i thought about it. Is still think it was the right thing to do. He said i get it. You are ready. So then i decided part of my journey meant moving back home. I love baltimore. Its ans amazing place in amazing people and quirky and complicated but the story is being written as we speak. City used to be a close to 1 Million People now of less than o 600,000 with the exceptions of cleveland and detroit we lost more citizens than any other major American City and it is the home of Thurgood Marshall and babe ruth and transportation policies at this country has ever instituted while at the same time we are celebrating the rebirth of the Baltimore Orioles at the same time were celebrating the ravens bringing the title back home was the same time we learned about the names of chris brown and tyrone rest on weston freddie gray it is still healing from its past trying to search and determine its own future where people from baltimore take it seriously and pride in the fact they are from baltimore and the fact im trying to raise my family here but those are just as proud to call themselves from baltimore as im but it is a place where our story is written as we speak and the chance to be one of 600,000 authors is exciting to me. For me it embodied community and ownership that the family will go back to baltimore. Host where review saturday a . Living in baltimore at the time. That was the day freddie gray made eye contact with police. I say that because it was his crime and he ran its important for people to understand its a crime distinctly labeled in high poverty areas if you make eye contact and run thats enough to trigger probable cause c and then you can be chased and arrested. Had that been done in another neighborhood that was only a mile and a half or 2 miles away from where hee was he could have done the exact same thing and be getting a job but he didnt. And wasen eventually arrested and one hour after he was arrested he was in a coma. When he finally made it to university of Maryland Medical Center he had three broken vertebrae and a crushed larynx and voicebox. He never made it out of the coma and never recovered from his injuries and died one week later. He was not able to survive. That was the day that baltimore and the world would first learn of the name freddie gray. Host from your book five days you write to there were reasons freddies death was different and so quickly turned into a galvanizing moment portions of his final moments caught on camera capturing video that is commonplace now but in 2015 it coincided with the emergence of smart phones and social media as citizen journalist. And i thought about what made us know who freddie gray was because in the two years before there wasnt just freddie gray there was chris brown and tyrone west similar situations where you have the unequal distribution ofn force and a black man making contact with police and loses his life. What was different about freddie . But we cannot underestimate is unlike those that i had named your word versus mine is much moreom complicated when there is video w footage watching it live capturing what actually happened the second piece and the group that could respond and move so if you watch the atdynamic this organization was founded by three black women in response to what happened to trave on marchpo and. The idea of saying we have to remind this country its not about black lives matter anymore but they matter and you cannot take out our lives with impunit impunity. So now it went from a , now its a Global Movement to mobilize quickly in different areas so it wasnt just about how are we positioning when these things happen with the individual families having to fend for themselves but put a real level of attention and focus when these things happen in our community so for freddie gray it was a fact we had camerahe footage of him and tis last moments being dragged literally into the back of a police van and also black lives matter focusing to make sure we dont just know the s names Michael Brown and casteel and walter scott and eric gardner and sandra bland and Breanna Taylor and freddie gray that we dont just know their k names but that it was an injustice that we have to scream enchanted their names thats what we saw and the differences with freddie gray and his situation. Host in five days freddie gray and so many other boys like him grew up in type of poverty that permeates everything it raise the probability that freddie would be exactly where he was april 1h , 2015 then april 27, 2015. In fact the odds were stacked against freddie generations before he was born. When i hear people make arguments about Freddie Freddie was this or that or a thug all the Police Officers knew his name even elected officials whose job it is to protect him. Sometimes you have to remind them he was your constituent to but its also important for people to understand to understand freddie gray in his life. Its important the understand the tragedy. Its also that we understand the tragedy of how he lived the first 25 years of his life because this was a young man who was born underweight, premature and addicted to heroine. His mother who battled addiction much of her life never made it to high school, she couldnt read or write. When him and his twin sister gained enough weight to leave the hospital they moved into a Housing Projects in west baltimore. This Housing Project with 488 of her home were cited in a civil lawsuit in 2009 because of the levels of lead inside of the home. We know that it is a toxin for over a century. The cdc indicate that the person had six microbes that person would have cognitive damage for the remainder of their life. He had 36 so this is a young man born premature, underweight, addicted to heroin and lead poisoning. By that time in his life hes 2yearsold. He never had a chance. We never gave freddy gray a chance. When we look at y the fact his last recorded day in school is when he was in the tenth grade and almost 19yearsold. When you look at the fact he was in special academic classes his entire school years because of lead poisoning and he was being asked to make up for things that frankly with the narrow logical system the fact we continue in every single interaction with variousso systems whether its policing or educational systems and Health Systems in office and every single time it wasnt just that they couldnt help him they were doing in their own individual ways immeasurable damage to him and that is something we have to contend with. It is the hard truth. He could have type 100 times before he made eye contactye wih police and arguably the most peaceful week in his life was the week that he was in a coma because at least that week she was surrounded by doctors and nurses and surrounded by lawyers and activists. There was a city that knew his name and cared whether he lived or died. Name one week in the 25 years prior to that wasas the case soe have to be able to seek and demand justice. All the other justice mechanis mechanisms. Host lets hear from our callers. Nicole from fort lauderdale. You are on the air. Caller thank you for taking my call. I want to say that im very impressed with the way that you speak and your articulation. What im calling about his eye was born in 1972 a black middle class in southern new jersey, black middle class family and getting a good education was paramount. We were very lucky to be able to go to Parochial School that i think made a huge difference in our lives. They also made sure we were exposed to things like classical literature, art, theater, jazz even science programs on pbs with my dad made us watch. So my question is what can be done to put experiences such like what i had into the lives of poor black kids in poor neighborhoods may be scholarships or money to be raised so that programs can be brought into the schools. Host thank you. Guest thank you for that question. I love the screen of the question because what you are asking is how do we make education and allencompassing experience for the students that isnt just about reading and writing and arithmetic and qualifications but how do we make it a truly holistic experience that promotes this ideaea of Lifelong Learning and exploration that makes it interesting so i love the frame you are approaching and i also know that this right now what we are seeing particularly before covid19 and also post covid19 where we have watched these educational divide explode. We focus on things like how they make sure kids are entering prepared to learn and things are going to help them go on a proper pathway. We can talk to elementary and pre k. Teachers and say what is it that you need and often times the answer is a classroom full of kids ready to go because if i teach too fast i lose the kids are. How do you then come up with that framework. What happens during those summer months because we know the gap exists between june and september for many students that are not able to have. What happens in a situation like now where we have students that havent been any fulltime classroom and when you consider the fact they havent logged on consistently during this time into this gives us the important opportunity to rethink education in a different kind of way, to think how to be introduced this kind of experiences that sometimes happen for certain students or certain instructors are able to introduce that it doesnt have to be exceptionalism. Now we actually make it a part of our core. How can we think of things like rethinking a school year for a school day and thinking that its absolutely criminal that we still do not have students that do not have mechanisms to do the proper things to help, consistent high Speed Internet that can help them stay above and we are now adopting curriculum to be able to support our students and so i feel like your question is a powerful one because it does force us to think through how can we use this moment so things got them all the things i got when i had an instructor that took me and helped me understand how the Constitutional Congress works and would take me to a play to explain that to me or try to really understand the things that made life so interesting, how can we make that a purpose or focus for alpart ofour focuse restrictions and particularly at the time when Everything Else in the educational framework is being upended that becomes our Bigger Mission but its something that has to be done if they were going to address this in a proper fashion. Host the question made me start thinking about the difference between how she discussed her parents and their activism. Guest you are right that parents and guardians there is an Important Role they play in their educational aspirations. It isnt lost on me the fact that my mother was an active parent in terms of the kids were learning and my grandmother was a schoolteacher said she was an active participant and was very clear as to what kind of things students should and should not be getting. I also know for kids coming up in situations where their parents dont necessarily, that isnt necessarily how their parents approached it. We cannot punish them for that. We have to think about systems and how we then come up with structures soo even if it isnt something the child is getting its still something that child is getting structurally because there can be a blame game that takes place for parents. Heres the thing i can tell you with a real deal of certainty, the vast majority of parents it is and they dont care that are a lot they either dont know or its hard because it is complicated and challenging when you are trying to work three different jobs taking up 14 hours of your day into civil think about the poverty line because they dont pay enough and youre going toto need help. You are going to need the same kind of help and support that my family got. My mother got her first job that gave her benefits when i was 14yearsold. My mother got her first job offer to work one job, not multiple chops. Shjobs. She got a job that gave reliable hours when i was 14. She wasnt only helping to raise us that was living with my grandparents in helping them with my grandparents gave a really significant amount of support and my mom credits the myths as if it were not for them i dont know what i would have done raising my three kids. Its not that parents dont care but for many they dont know or dont have the resources so how do we make sure and institutionalized that to make sure that its not just the grace of your family situation that allows you to have a pathway to the fact that you are a member of our society therefore we should be thinking about how do you create infrastructures that are just giving kids a creating a platform where opportunity and ambition can actually meet each other because we dont have that now. We have a free work that is frankly i didnt ask or if i was blessed to receive it. Thats how i think about it in this moment in the way we are going toha reshape and rethink l this. Host if you cant get through and have a question or comment we will scroll through our social media sites including our tech snob or. In maryland, good afternoon you were on with author wes moore. Caller i read the last chapter that says love comes into everything. I dont see how you can eliminate lock. Bill clinton was lucky. It comes with everything. When you say conditions, i agree with you 100 but we must have a Perfect World in order for a person to have the option of doing the right thing. Ive got something to say about freddy greg. You are wrong saying that they had probable cause to arrest him. They did not. There was no crime by him or anybody else. Forget about his social problems of the problems he had. They had no right to arrest him. ,one other thing, a citizen called police indices in walmart in black man holding what appears to be in ak47. The clerk isnt there. There were no people around anywhere. He tells the police it looks like we have a gunman, you better get over here and check it out. They come to the store. The clerk who is back there getting a receipt is in there so they come in and pull their guns and the gentleman thinks they must think im stealing this. He goes forin his wallet, hes going to show them ive got the receipt. Host we need to bring this to a conclusion. Caller they shot him. It was a bb gun. It was a tragedy but it was bad luck. The cops did nothing wrong. Host can you very briefly give a quick glance at your life story . Caller i was born in north carolina, sort of rough down there. I graduated high school. I was in the military during vietnam. I went to morgan state and went to the university of maryland law s school. I passed s the bar. [inaudible] host they have to leave it there. Thank you for that information. Iguest some of the work even prior to what i was doing now we launched an initiative that stands for students taking a new direction where we work for students it was a huge perk for something he forgot and the lifetime that you have given to this work. You bring up the point about conditions being perfect for people to be able to make it through. The obvious answer is no. The thing we also know is that the conditions cannot be stacked againstst her where if you lookt ththe statistics and dynamics as they exist right now, we talk about how a College Degree is the target. That is what we want allet of or students to be able to accomplish. The College Degree increases lifetime earnings by nearly 1 million. Yet Research Also shows they are on average less than high school dropouts. If you take aak look at this ida 39 versus 19 to 70 of the lowwage workers when we are talking about the conditions that exist for people, we also cannot underestimate the role that race plays and the fact that if we do have a framework where we can just say if everyone is willing to work hard and do their task, they should have the opportunity to succeed. But the reality is they are still making the curve for many people and almost intentionally so so thats the thing all of us went to battle against them should be battling against. I dont think that people are perfect, but it needs to be fair and right now it is not fair. Host brian in Montgomery Alabama ahead with your question or comment. Caller thank you for. Taking my call. Host are you with us . Please go ahead. Were listening. Caller im enjoying the conversation. I just wanted to make a comment. Were looking at the context of things. What you did is demonstrated black wives matter when you do that how can we do better so that is related to the societal context. Guest it goe guest it goes back to the question of how we add contacts. Have to have a Large Society deal with the issue of truth about this country. And i think that when people say race is one of the trickiest issues in our society, i disagree. Its not one of the trickiest, isis the trickiest when you thik about the history of the country. The fact and reality of the country was founded on the racial hierarchy. The fact that it was once founded on this labor and that we have had a history of systemic challenges that did not end with slavery but immediately went into reconstruction in mass incarceration. But how all of these have provideded a context that we hae to be able to understand. But when the founding documents were first put together as beautiful as they were, they didnt include everybody. And there have to be a collective Movement Towards this idea but a couple of different things, on, how and who was responsible for so much and also that it doesnt banned automatically because of gravity but because there were people who were pulling it towards justice. People of all types in this ands countrys history so when we talk about things like context, that means how do we address things like coverage of them going back about education. One of the important things that happened to me when i began to appreciate the history of the country, i began to understand people would say how can you fight for this country and put your life on the line for the country and deserve the most elite military units and say they would do it again if i had the opportunity to because i know i love this country, but one thing this country doesnt mean lying about it. And it names such as baldwin and parks and carmichael, and names that are just as important to the framework into the build of the nations history and not just for africanamerican children to understand that but for all children to understand that. And all children understand the many people that have toiled to make this country better at every single turn. When we had a chance t the chana decision that we movee towards the in a very deliberate fashion because there were people who looked like every single shade and were able to make progress when we talk about the context, it means understanding of the history that the only time weve had major movements that have a lasting Sustainable Impact is wasnt just the impact of the communities fighting for justice for thee t impacted communities. Whether we are talking about the civil rights movement, whether we talk about the antiapartheid movement, part of the reason that it was as effective as a point that it wasnt just black South Africans standing up and saying this is unjust and theres no way we can allow a system like this. Part of the reason that we had movement for Energy Quality was because it just didnt have to be our friends who were demanding and chanting that love is love. Part of the reason we are able to see if now is we can add context to our humanity and its simply about the fact that they are seeing right now sometimes it is and as simple as people want to know you dont have to be. Understanding the full tradition of our history, the tradition of why we are in the places they are right now and the reason we have this market level of poverty wasnt unintentional. When people say people should work harder on poverty is a choice, my answerpo to them is this, poverty is a choice, but its not a trace o of people impacted by poverty. Its not a choice of the people feeling the weight of poverty, they dont wake up in the morning and say i love being in poverty. Its a choice of our society and how much pain we are willing to endure. The question is a good one becausext context matters when e are creating policy. Context matters when we are were deciding what justice means and looks like. It matters if we are going to truly honor and trynt to protect not just the intent that the words they put down. Host nancy is in los angeles. Caller thank you so much for all that you are doing and peter, you as well. My parents marched with folks that marched with Martin Luther king and i was so fortunate i grew up in Corpus Christi texas and i was raised in anan environment where my siblings and i were required to take action if we saw an injustice. I look back at that and i think not everybody was raised in that kind of environment, and i am so thankful that is how it was for me because i have been an activist michael weiss. I have a goal to help enlighten my friends and others di and wat to know what white people can do. Racism is out of control and change absolutelyat must occur. I feel it was before may 25 and after that george floyd was killed. Thats ae. Beautiful question. Thank you for your vulnerability and your leadership thats a tremendous amountmi of credit to your family and the fact you were raised with social justice you are raised right. Because when we think about whats happening right now in 2020 we start to genuine crisis one that is Catastrophic Health and the other was a reminder in different communities but the reality is even though these are different types of crises they told the exact picture and that dealing with covid 18 dealing with inequitable policing that covid19 didnt just expose but exacerbated the fact while impacted everybody it didnt impact everybody equally and Police Reform is necessary. But what wedi saw was george floyd we saw someone handcuffed, face down on the ground taking his final breath because a grown man was nonchalantly putting his knee into his neck. What we are seeing with the protest around the country it isnt policing we form that systemic racism. And that racism is an act racism is it an act but a system that finds its way through all other systems to change their shape and focus and core. And reading classics reading things and watching a htand documentaries that are able to add a level of exposure to these dynamics and it cannot ajust be about how we penetrate individuals but dealing with systems the interplay with racial and economic injustice this does not have to be a binary conversation. It doesnt help us by not talking about it. People say i want to Say Something that is incorrect and now im canceled or there is a meme. I am pretty sure in our time i have said quite a few things that have offended quite a few people. Not stop talking. Because that becomes a problem when we just stopped talking about it or move on. I think there is an important word in your question which is truth. We have had countries that have done it in our way we cannot move on to a better place if we are not willing to stare at the deepest wounds in south africa and rwanda and chile and colombia and canada, twice. Countries that have gone through truth and reconciliation if we examine the things that show themselves if we address it once and for all. The president of the United States has enacted the National Guard 12 times. Ten of those were g i with race. Only twice as the president activated the National Guard not with race it was the loot seeing at the postal worker strike and alluding that took place in st. Croix after hurricane. That is it. So those countries that can explore the deepest roots to say the only way we can move forward is with the measure of truth is something i believe it is crucial that the country goes through goes through our own process the federal and local and state level to know where history and how we move forward with an understanding of what our history is. Host and the book here i stand we ask another their Favorite Book and what they are currently reading. Here i stand is one of his Favorite Books. The fab five. Dog flowers is currently the book he is reading which is about what . Its an immigration story. I think about it in context of what it means to define in thiss as americans moment and a member of the human race at a time when people question the importance and the depth of what that means. One of the reasons i love that story because i am a data driven person and i also know what i have learned from publishers i wanted to turn into the ten step guide for parents and guardians this is before we had our beautiful childrenim. He said i will be honest with you. That sounds interesting but nobody wants to read a parenting book by a 30 yearold with no children. [laughter] and thats a good point. Told the stories because statistics can add context but stories promote action so what are you trying to do with your work . And for me the honest answer is both. And provide context. And why there is a beautiful masterfull job but then have something to fight for and then never stop fighting. And the subtitle of the book is searching for life that mattered. Do you and tallahassee coats know each other or group together with baltimore in Structural Racism . He is another very proud man from baltimore. His father is still very wactive he is a man i like to and admire very deeply. And we had a chance to think a lot about this city and where the city is going would ask people for all of his remarkable books is Toni Morrison was saying before he is our version of James Baldwin i dont thank you could give a higher complement to. But if you read a beautiful struggle thats another one i recommend to people to check out and why people are so proud of baltimore. I am thankful he drives me and others and firmly very much committed to the city and the state we know it can and should. Host you mentioned his father paul who is a publisher of baltimore. Go to book tv. Org we took a tour of his publishing plant and talk to him about some of publishes the next call comes from florida go ahead. Caller thank you so much. You are an answer to a prayer. You god it down pat. Thank you so much for having the nerve and the tenacity to say the things that you say and not understanding where we come from and how we got here. Black lives matter john lewi lewis, you are the answer how we move forward. Do yousw travel . Because right now im working with the superintendent of the schools in the county and i will tell him tomorrow he needs to bring you here to talk for a couple of days. Because that is what we are working on. Host ri before we get an answer tell us about yourself. You have got to know the truth. I know you want me to answer your question. This is my question. Do you travel . I just need you to get here. Host tell us about yourself a little bito t. Caller caller i cannot hear what you said. You just fill me up more than you know. I hear it in your voice and your passion. Thankful for the work you are doing for our students and community. You have no idea how much you fill me up. So i do and i would love to in one of the joys spending time with our teachers and leaders and people who are shaping the society so yes i would love to come spend some time with you. Your comment is not only incredibly humbling but one of the most important things that happened toor me as once i got a chance to know my truth and my history that everywhere i am is because it was written people that were willing to fight for me and advocate for me and those who woke up every morning who never even knew who i was and dont even know my name that they had the hope of me. That drives me for the fact i can and they should be part of my history. And when they say things like i dont see color. Not only do i believe that isntt true when i hear that is that i dont see your blackness like i should be ashamed of. I am not. For those who look just like me. Or the hope of me. Im there because i belong there. I am not in any room because of a social experiment or benevolence or someone wants to prove a point. But because i belong there thats what i want all of our children to understand they are walking in their greatest and their sense of hope there are people in angel surrounding the dont even know their name but they know their potential. That is what we fight for. So miss marjories. , you filled me up this morning. Thank you. Host tony from the bronx. Caller i respect you very much a very educated young ererman. He mention your mother but also its important about your father also. I am 58 and i have been in relationships no children and no wife i tried to explain to women and children do need a father not just their mother because it hurts children also been 50 years ago that there is a breakdown in the family that is very sad because a lot of young men are out here. I have lived in new york who are trying to do the right thing but sometimes they dont have the guidance of a blackla man. I have been in relationships but in my experience i love black women but all respect with a black woman who breaks down the black man and doesnt want the black man to be the black man in the family. First. Blessings and thank you its good to talk to somebody and its great to hear your voice. It is interesting in the context of people say is there anything from the other westmore didnt make it into the book you wish would have. The only answer is one thing. Is that when i transitioned can you write something to your father i will try to find him. He only has two memories of my father and watching him die in front of me he only has three memories the last when he was 13 years old and saw his father laying on a couchch and asking him who he was. He had no relationship with him. I said i want to give this to him he hesitated finally sent me the letter it is five pages long and the most l fascinating mix of love and support and empathy and apathy and hatred and one lit in one letter because i showed it to my publisher he said did you do it . Have you wrote a letter to your father . I said no. He said you shouldnt ask him to do something youre not willing to do yourself. So i went to his grave site with a legal pad in the pan and i started writing. No editing just what was on my mind. I showed my publisher he said i will be honest i dont know if yours is any less confusing. The point he made his we both still wrestle with something very complicated with this void. My father was a special man from every story i have heard that he was a good friend and husband and a good man. I think about that in context when west said our fathers could be there for Different Reasons therefore we more in their absence in different ways and he is right. But your point is right the void is there and the void is real. We have to be able to lift up and celebrate not just how powerful of the black women and men we have to stop doing damage to put out false narratives as well but the reality is we have policies in place keeping people from being engage with their family members talk about the mass incarceration kickoff and that is just one that when you can reintegrate with the family but in Public Housing you cannot join them for they will be asked to leave. The fact we have so many w restrictions from pell grant and who qualifies to Child Support payments and disincentives we need to think what it is we want from society and the answer is we want engagement and unified families and also stop making it so complicated and difficult and from a truly holistic process to bring a lot of voices and perspectives this is not useful nor helpfuls for anybody and think about it right now in context of my children. And they have a wonderful mother i couldnt think of how challenging it would be right now with this unified front and how difficult it was for my mom so many other moms and single dads out there creating those levels of support with that structure to make those things real. Host don is mentioned often in your book only taped an interview earlier about your most recent book one of your sons got into the picture but unfortunately we cut it out i wish we left it w in because he zips through the office to come visit. One thing i will always say my kids are allowed everywhere. I have meetings with anybody my son or daughter just interest the frame but i always let them know you are welcome everywhere. Even if they popping before this ends just know i am okay with that. Host we would love to see them. Maryland go ahead. Caller good afternoon. You gave sound pretty good context of freddie gray that most people would not w have. And to comment time black lives matter and then to destroy society especially at the police and the freddie gray case were acquitted and if you have time to comment on the governors book about dealing with the riots. I will tell you in black lives matter pulled together especially known the three women who started the organization, it would start again not just the acknowledgment but ther fear. And you bring up an important point even with two years prior to freddie gray there were other names that were involved in things that people saw that a payoff what happened and then go away so there is that misconception about what happened and called everything down going back to your question about governor hogan. When mary hogan called in the National Guard and thats what brought the temperature down. But to bring everything down in baltimore at the time is not that the National Guard got brought in the conflict actually happens. But what did bring the temperature down when Marilyn Mosby pressed charges against those officers because baltimore was shot it was the first time in history that had been done i didnt happen. But charges were filed. I remember being in baltimore with a refiled it was a celebratory environment. Now to your point the charges were dropped but its important to know because that was actually that change the temperature that there could be accountability for what the doj showed was a pattern and practice for discriminatory behavior and what we are seeing with george floyd now the bar before was indictment so now even if you see these officers it is just more than an indictment. And then the point of the governors book that was incredibly disheartening and disappointing to describe him as a drug dealer st and then to doug deeply into this not just a good friend but a great reporter who collaborated with me on the book. But second for the governor to make the insinuation like tha that, freddie is gone and cannot even defend his own character and the governor has forgotten he either has forgotten or does not recognize he was his constituent to. It was inevitable results of failure and policy failures and leadership failure failures that they should not confuse it with the singer in a church choir i dont but i also know he didnt have a shot. Ti that is the push back what is the take away from those moments and then to rethink that so that these dont have to keep happening and also adding frustration to the complicated situation. Host the heritage report put out 22 trillion have been a spent on the war on poverty since lbj founded it and that poverty rate is the same as 1967 please address how favernment welfare enslaves people and dependence on the government check instead of selfreliance. But you are right we had war on poverty that has gone on since the time of lbj but warren means you are willing to disclose every single tool of your asset and ability and we have not done that. The reality is its not and indictment on the i administration because i can look at a span of decades and is inconsistentt policies to keep people in poverty. The reality is we do have policies we can and should we think and retracting because policy positions matter and one challenge i would make what we talk with the welfare system in 11 weeks we stopped 11 years of job growth gone. Those that have lost their jobs due to cover 19 were livingng in poverty before covid19. This is the working poor. And still we are not living above the poverty line. The reality is look at new york city alone half have lived in poverty for at least one year over the past four years pre covid19 not half of the borough or demographic but half of the city living in poverty for at least onene f yer over the past four years. So talking about these dynamics half of the city is living in poverty there is a massive disconnect. So talking about policies here are some policy recommendations we could do to address thehe things that you speak about and that we will benefit. Talking about how to expand federal employment insurance benefit that is as necessary now as ever and to make permanent the expansion of the earned income tax credit to include childless adults. Make the Child Tax Credit fully refundable. And these are simple things and that in the incredibly complicated time but it doesnt mean when we create people it is seen as a handout but support for the most formidable to give them a pathway to longterm success with frankly they had nothing to do with then that becomes not just a moral obligation that the most effective way we can think about our resources when it comes to how we come out and recover from this issue going forward. Look at Unemployment Insurance for every dollar that comes in you get 1. 80 back into the economy. There are ways to leverage this but we have to be deliberate and this moment. You have 32nd. Caller im a Firm Believer and economy to make people feel they are heard with elected officials breaking the law and Voter Suppression and gentrification real issues so to what extent does power affect everyday individualsff. 30 seconds for a big questio question. Its big and brilliant thank you. It is everything because event talking about policies is not just about how we can provide support that share power and autonomy. We are not here to save people. They dont need saving we have to remove barriers that makes life so complicated. It is a big question but power and autonomy and freedom have to be Guiding Principles the way we think about policies and philanthropy. Host westmore has been our guest the last two hours we appreciate your time and all your calls and text. Thank you for joining us tonight Im Communications director for the countrys online largest justices ni