Your questions, your audience questions. To ask a question as a q a box at the bottom of your screen. You click on that and typing your question will try to get to as many of those as possible. There is a chat for you guys but if you could keep all of your questions in the q a, just make things a little bit easier. With all that out of the way, it is my honor to introduce jean guerrero. She is an Investigative Reporter contributing to npr, the pbs news hour and other public media. She is the author of, shes also the recipient of an emmy of the k pbs americas. That should be discussing her new book, hatemonger, steven muller, donald trump and the White Nationals agenda. Its from a spiteful teenage troll to one of Donald Trumps chief advisers. Muller who has outlasted many others in the trump forces has encourages his bosses worse impulses and helped him. From the muslim ban, the family separation policy at the border, millers finger prints have been all over the cruelest and most decisive moments of the trump era. Tonight jean will be in conversation with jonathan blitzer. He is a writer at the york or anyone the 2017 National Board for education reporting for american studies, story vetted underground school for undocumented immigrants. His writing reporting is also. The new york times, the atlantic, and the nation, that any further do come here are jean and jonathan. C1 high everyone. Thanks everyone for being here, jonathan thank you for moderating them super excited to talk to about this book. See what likewise and congratulations first and foremost. This is a major undertaking. There is so much to say. So let me just launch right in. I have a few ideas on how we might kind of move through the conversation to capture the full sweep of what you have done in the book. But before we kind of marched through millers a biography, i want to ask one general sweeping question at the outset. It may help serve to orient people if they listen. And that is the following, Steven Miller at this point is known to everyone, he is not a retreating personality in the trump administration. He is notorious for all sorts of things. Hes involved in some the most controversial policies adopted by the current administration, he is enthusiastically privately xenophobic, all of this stuff, people have seen on tv, people are used to seeing him raising his voice and being pugnacious. My question to you, what do you think the media in the coverage of him, what if we all misunderstood. All parts of his personality are the least well understood given his outside public persona . Guest out probably start with the fact that he has a lot of or he had a lot of friends who perceived him to be really funny. He has this layered personality thats not really captured in a lot of accounts about Steven Miller where he is just sort of depicted as architect of trumps anti policy. He very much is. In the bucket that is important to also show how he is seen by his friends. Many of them point out that he in many ways was a normal teenager growing up in Southern California. He was into reality tv show. He really loves Elvis Pressley and mobster movies. He was dressed up as robert dineros mobster character of trips to las vegas. Which is not totally normal but just eccentric quirks that Steven Miller had made him appear to be very funny to a lot of his friends. Steven miller, as obsessed as he has become with his anti immigration agenda, for very long time in his life was capable of having friendships with people who did not necessarily agree with him. He has this ability to be civil with you dont see coming across being very combative is in interviews with journalists. He is able to be laidback. He is able to be civil. There were a lot of people who kinda found him to be funny because they thought, a lot of people thought he was joking, growing up when he would say these pretty outrageous things about how racism, the figment of our imagination, and how multiculturalism poses an x essential threats. The thought is kind of joking. It wasnt until he joined the Trump Campaign that people began to realize that this mission had become inseparable from his identity and his self perception. He really became fully consumed by his antiimmigration hostility in this what icss radicalization. A true case study and radicalization of what happens when someone is exposed to an extremist ideology at a young age and slowly becomes consumed by it. And eventually becomes the most powerful advisor in the white house. C1 that is a fascinating point and definitely something that is fallen out of the popular imagination where muller is concerned. We all see him but there is a personality there, a Big Personality there. Just listening to you talk brings to mind a quote from one of his friends, just quoting from your book here, the friend, millers friend from i believe high school says to you, quote what they are saying about him, about muller, is directionally accurate. I would just say that i think steven in reality is probably two thirds what you see of him in the media. If he is a ten and the media on whatever scale youre thinking, and realities probably six or seven. How surprised were his friends . The friend that you spoke with, but he became the figure that he did . I mean where they honesty by the time you got in touch with them he is very much in the public eye. But did they describe feelings you sort of shocked on seeing him for the first time . Either warming up trump during the 2006 and campaign are on the early cnn appearances in 2017. Did this shocked them . I mean the guy who gave you this quote himself seem to be pretty self reflective about what it meant to once be friends with muller. It did seemed like theres some soulsearching among his friend friends. Guest yeah, lets friend that you are quoting, he told me that he was very concerned about Steven Miller at one point. When he was watching Steven Miller starting to get a lot of National Attention on the Trump Campaign and in the white house as well. He would watch his friend on national tv, on cnn and things like that battling with jake tapper. And he started to get really concerned like what would happen if what would happen longterm . What would this mean longterm for Steven Millers career . At one point his friend calls him up and says are you sure that this is something that you want to be doing . Are you sure that this is right . And Steven Miller said that yes, he was sure. He was not worried. His friends werent surprised that he came into a position of power, because they know how disciplined and hard working muller has been for his life. And very ambitions from the time he was in high school appearing on talk radio show programs. And being on National Television when he was in college. So people arent so much surprised, that has friends that knew him well werent very surprised by his rise to power. But there were some of them who expressed me they were concerned about what this would mean for him longterm. Because he was coming off, is such a villain in the media. Host thats really interesting. And said lets start with his childhood. And the question of geography to begin with. I wonder, the early chapters of your book really smartly deal with california and seems to be the late 80s and 90s. it have a different kind of flavor. Would he be who he is now if he have not grown up in california. From my reporting for the book it is clear that california played a central role in who they became. A very reactionary ideology that incorporates the language of the left into it. That the liberals normally use. In using it against them. The notice of oppressive elite. Being used it has been used to describe the republicans. The reactionary component where he uses a lot of the tools of the left and also is very combative in a way having grown up as a person whose ideology was a minority in the city in which he grew up. In the high school in which he grew up. The other aspect of it. This is kind of what drew me to tell Stephen Millers story is someone who grew up in Southern California at the same time as Stephen Miller does a couple hours south of where he lived there was this unprecedented hostility statewide in california i remember there were attacks on affirmative action. In bilingual education. There was a tax on social services. It was a widespread statewide scapegoating that happened bold all of their problems with the crime problems. On immigrants and its truly a microcosm or was a microcosm for what we are seeing today. And the resurgence of the ideologies. Why people became an minority for the first time in the state. Nationally we are going through the same growing pains that they underwent. He was growing up and listening to this. With the racist rhetoric. Even me as the daughter of a mexican immigrant. In a puerto rican mother. Very much internalizing the shame associated with being mexican. My mom used to say you are american in a way i felt like i could bring my perspective as someone who could relate having these views. And it was this desire to be seen with all of the privileges. And to approach it with a really open mind. I came into it thinking that Stephen Miller had been understood. And really trying to understand him. This is why the environment in which he grew up. Plays a central role in my book. And turning it into a character. He was listening to Rush Limbaugh who is now a huge talk radio hosts. At the time was less wellknown. But he was broadcasting out of the state. Railing against multiculturalism. And painting white men is that principal aggrieved party in america and saying anyone else who complains lacks self reliance. But white men are allowed to complain about anything. Really gravitated towards it. He talks about reading Rush Limbaughs a book. And finding them to be the most informative in his life. He was a set a descendent of jewish refugees. I want to ask about this because it was a new revelation to me. Reading your book his father seem to have a major vector for stephen in his childhood to begin to shift this forward. Going from a family of jewish refugees. With the right dash mike white majority. It seemed like his father began as a moderate democrat but who over time it seemed largely for personal reasons. A very conflicted person who was embroiled in a series of lawsuits. That sense of a grave meant while very personal ended up maybe for stephen being a gateway into a broader sense of rage and anger. See mac tell. Tell us about his father. This is when his father starts to rail against the ridiculous liberal elites. The very conservative viewpoints when his Real Estate Company is sort of falling apart. And getting sued by his brother. In his former law firm. Unsuccessfully and having all of these bankruptcies and that he was dealing with it being forced to move from a very affluent part of santa monica to a slightly smaller house in a more diverse area when you see the shift in his dad e you start to see the sheriff in Stephen Miller himself. Going around one thing is that he have to go to santa monica high school. A very diverse Public High School where as his younger brother would later attend a mostly white private high school. They find himself displaced feeling angry like he has lost his place in line and this is when you see him breaking up with his mexican friend telling him that he cant be friends with someone with latino heritage. And this is when you see him going around school telling his mexican classmates to go back to their countries. To rail against measures with racial equity. And expressing a lot of passion about these issues. You dont normally see teenager get that riled up about. I was always shocked by this parallel. And obviously the current star. The father who is a lawyer by training ended up leaving the law and entering real estate of all things. And that also. What a bizarre way to the present moment. Very combative. In the Court Documents i found for the buck describe him as a masterpiece of invasion and manipulation. A lot of the same languages that you see. You see his business dealings and for the people that i spoke with. They believe that part of the reason he gets along so well with donald trump is that he gets them. He gets them emotionally and psychologically and spiritually because he grew up in a similar family to donald trump. Stephen millers paternal uncle got permanently separated from the family with a no contact order in a Settlement Agreement in deprived of most of the family inheritance. Very much like what we see with mary trump and Donald Trumps. They helped to explain the attraction to Stephen Miller and the way that these men just kind of loosely understand each other. And jive. I just want to get people who are watching and listening and a little flavor of what some of this might have sounded like at home for a young Stephen Miller listening to his father. This is from an interview interview you did with stephens uncle his mothers brother. Who some people well now as a figure who is a written publicly about his frustration with the term that has nephew has taken. And here is david glosser. He says that he was a traditional economic republican who over the years became more and more embittered overregulation in which he felt was the intrusion into his personal and business fares. The ridiculous liberal elite. He was convinced that they were dominated by the extreme west wing political view of the world. He read a passage like that in your book and that could be a description it seems to me of stephen. Did you know about some of this going in. As someone that has reported a lot. I have to say it was really a total revelation to me. Stephen miller has the myth that they come from the democratic family. And he helps to turn them into conservatives. But really, from the Court Documents that i found. In the conversation with the other relatives it became clear that Stephen Miller it did not invent this ideology. It comes in large part with the relationship from the father. And just hearing you read that passage. Comments of david horwitz. They meet Stephen Miller during the time in their life. And in doctorates him in the idea that schools are the left wing machines and they are contributing to the destruction of america because of the Democratic Party that is allied itself with other people of color who pose a threat to america. They introduce them to the fantasy that he has to save the country from some kind of apocalypse that he perpetuates. He nurturing that through his school for Political Warfare and trains them to attack the Civil Rights Movement with the language of the civil rights. Into launder the premises and the idea of economics. And then he introduces it to the idea that white men created everything that we hold dear in america from equality to freedom which ignores the central role that people of color have played in our history. Its obviously ahistorical. It appears at a young age. And ended up taking over his life. Absolutely. I have a lot a question about david horowitz. Im tempted to ask one final question about his childhood. It makes a lot of sense to me to connect up the weight millers father was to the rhetorical platform. I just want to ask one thing because this really struck me and some of the reporting that ive done over the years someone told me who worked with miller. Once told me in response to a question i head about what animated the racism towards immigrants. How that could be explained. And this is a direct quote. That they seize immigrants and particularly those as the rabble. I thought about it bit reading your book. There is one formative experience that you already alluded to but i want to hear a little bit more on. Is the Miller Family moves during stephens childhood basically from a as you have already described. The one that is a little bit more racially and economically diverse. Its seen as a real comedown for the millers. I wonder how much some of the views have towards immigrants also has this kind of clash of overlay. Was that something that struck you. That is a really excellent question. I do think its very tangled up in his head. The racism with a sense of elitism. One of the first racist thoughts is really more cautious than racist. How he hates his latin america housekeeper dropping him off at school because it makes him look poor. He referred to her junkie car. It made him feel poor. Stephen miller has been so effective at taxing the Democratic Party as elite. And those that want to decimate america with importation of and Stephen Miller he enjoys wandering around in his bathrobe and having leather books. In the glass window condominium. He embodied him in a very conscious way but he is able to deflect with the tools that he learned from a very young man and cause people to see trump as the only person who can a fight against these elites. Even though trump himself is also an elite. You can have with the strands of the childhood. In college years. One big question i head for you. A report on miller. The conversation of the book. They tried to turn the language around. A quick study in that department. You quote a friend of millers in college who sent the following. Some people want money some people want influence. A lot of people run around not knowing what they want. They want the cheers of the enemies and then they went out and got them. In the reason i bring this up in particular. At what point does miller come to the ideology. It is childhood high school years. During much of the