Welcome. My name is Vivian Schiller and the executive director of aspen digital of the Aspen Institute program really glad you could be with us today. The York Times Bestseller list can often seem to be a near untimely or of the national psyche. As such this year seems to reflect a nation going through and awaking of matters of race. Books written by people of color and about matters of race and racism have filled those lists. Both fiction and nonfiction prayed that is the good news. Sadly, the Publishing Industry does not necessarily always reflect that reality. The recent twitter protest has back publishing paid and exposed a major pay disparity in the industry between black and nonblack authors. There are few people of color who serve as publishing staff or literary agents. And even fewer who operate as decisionmaking levels. And for those who are published, sometimes the marketing exposure coming sub optimal. This year, of National Reckoning on racism, we can take a look at the book industry, the book Publishing Industry, and whether it can bring more racial diversity to the field. This is part of our changing the narrative series. It looks at issues of race to the media. When one program on the news media and we have upcoming another program about the entertainment industry. We explore the challenges but importantly we also explored the new possibilities, in this case for publishing more books by and about people of color. So, im about to introduce our panel and moderator force today prayed before i do, just a reminder this is a live program. Youre going to hear a conversation among our moderator and our fantastic panelists. Within later in the hour were going to take your questions. To you but found the bottom of your screen of concealed little button that says q a. You can enter your question. We would ask that you add your name and your affiliation if youre comfortable doing so. It just adds a little more texture and context for the questions. We will then curate those questions and provide those to our wonderful moderator who will impose them to our panelists. So any time click on it starting now. Now let me introduce our panelists so we could get started. We have regina brooks the founder and president of Serendipity Literary Agency and Brooklyn Bridge her agent has established a diverse base of awardwinning clients an adult, young adults each and literature. Nicole is the author of here comes the sun, near times notable book of the year and it won a literary award winner for best selling book patsy is a 2020 award winner, near times editors choice of Financial TimesCritic Choice honor book and on countless book of the year list. Lisette lucas has been executive director of the National Book foundation and is the incoming Senior Vice President for publisher of a pantheon and shokin books. Prior to journey foundation, lisa served as a publisher, a nonprofit online magazine focusing on writing that explores the intersection of arts and politics with an international and diverse focus. We have with this also erroll mcdonald the Vice President and executive editor that can often double date division of pandemic branding house where he has various editorial capacities are more than three decades. Among the singles authors he has published are jack henry abbott, James Baldwin, henry louis gates, Toni Morrison, and many, many more. And finally i am so please introduce my colleague and moderator for day, andrienne brodeur. She is the head, executive director of aspen words. Shes off of the author of the memoir wild game which is been in development for a film. During her 15 years the Publishing Industry, adrian counted a literary magazine h h books and served as a judge for the National Book award among other literary contests but she has been published far and wide in magazines prayed she has been with aspen since 2013 aspen is a literary arts Nonprofit Program of the Aspen Institute which includes the aspen words literary prize. We are so pleased to have you with this adrian. My beloved colligan so i turn over to you and the other talent. Thank you vivian for the introduction and thank you for the aspen words and Aspen Digital Team for hosting this event. Into all of us our panelists and to all of you who are zooming in today for your interest in changing the narrative something long overdue in the Publishing Industry fyi to all of you watching, this group met yesterday travel little pregame conversation. We decide as much as possible we would like to make this a forward thinking solution driven conversation in other words were not going to sugarcoat any of the facts or gloss over those exists in publishing we are not going to spend too much time restating it rehashing the obvious. The obvious being, one, the industry is been predominately white, 76 according to a recent survey. A net figure skews higher when it comes the highest position in the industry. And two, as a result of that power structure and the fact that white people have been the primary arbiter of literary culture, black writers and other writers of color have had a harder time getting published. There are of course other issues, cultural appropriation, dispiriting pay. Vivian mentioned and what publishing paid me twitter protest. So were going to have lots and lots of talk about. But before he dive into the conversation, it feels important to acknowledge that i am aye woman. And i am sure have blind spots in terms of my own privilege. And im working hard to become more selfaware which we only do at this time. But with that lets begin. Is all of us on this call no, we arent lucky enough to work in one of the most fascinating, exciting wonderful industries, publishing, the world of literature story telling and literature. But i like to start with is with you, talking about what drew you to the literary world . And what the Publishing Industry needs to do now to open up opportunities to people of color they the howard Publishing Institute. To make sure. So excited to be on this panel. When he think about the genesis of how ice started in publishing, it was very serendipitous. So thats the name of my compan company. I have a background in engineering as an Aerospace Engineer i can this Publishing Program at Howard University and it really changed my life and my world upside down. Background interest in books virginity of always been a persons goes to the library. The liveries right on the around the corner from my house. And i realized that, asked my mom to go upstairs. She found this, it was a certificate that i had actually given James Baldwin and award. [laughter] so i have always been a part of the public in space. I end up the howard institute, not institute no longer exist today. I think of psalms 27 years ago. As an engineer, i started out working out for john wylie sons and i started in sales. And eventually they move me to it new york and i became editor. As i worked as an editor and the engineering disciplines, mechanical chemical electrical, is so funny i think it back to the genesis, there are two people that i met at that Publishing Institute that are still in the business today. One of them is a Business Partner now. One is marie brown shes a literary agent. She and i have our own imprint called open lands now. And also, i met sherrill hudson, she is a publisher with her husband wade and they again are still in the business. Theres something to be said about the longevity being in the business as a black person theres also something to be said about the fundamentals that were learned at that Publishing Institute. Like i said, Howard University publishing no longer exist today. But when i think about what kind of things could the industry do to really bring more people into the business, and also sustain them. I think of the and awesome idea to reinvigorate that institute. There are other institutes that exist like the denver institute, columbia also nyu. I think that numerous publishers today are trying to figure out how do we get to the talents . How do we get to the talent . Theres no bigger better way to do that and to have the institute. And i did read, just today but in publishing, create a public teaching diversity fellowship which is new i believe that is part of the columbia publishing course. That is still a smaller organization than the one youre talking about. It also segues nicely something lisa was mentioning yesterday, which was really about the bounty of jobs in publishing that we dont really necessary all know are there without some kind of education in the field. Because most able think writers, editors thats it. Unit talk at all about that lis lisa . Snap i was joking yesterday not the tarp recall if Something Like a job like a literary scout existed i probably wouldve been the literary scout. As a 28yearold is like what did i miss . I think it is a complicated industry. I am still learning. I would start working at the magazine out of 33 protecting from outside the industry by the within Ascension Parish was a real education all the things no one had told me. I think we have to be think about the industry of course with decisionmakers and executives and publishers and editors. Wealth anything about the marketing folks. And about our publicity folks. Design and legal in hr, all the things that go into in sales. There are so many pieces. Every book, they have an imprint, and it has a title as an author. When you think well this person made this book. It takes an actual enormous team to make these books. If you dont have diversity at every level, you dont have the checks and balances that keep the embarrassing missteps from happening for you have diversity of information about where there are challenges. Whether its in hr, the blind spots all throughout. I think we do focus on the authors and the editors. And he think we have to be digging broadly about what an entire team that makes about possible or imprint possible, or Publishing House possible. For the agents representation. Regina so important you need people that understand the challenges. You need to educate people on what books are. I think one of our jobs is to work with teenagers. They were all interested in becoming filmmakers. Think the most important thing we did was demystify what it looks like she articulate below the line jobs as well as what it meant to be a director common editor or a producer right . Because people had an understanding of what was happening. We are very happy to see mike we make magic. I think everyone makes our is. My magical art for my work in a known could ever figure out we do, that it secures that there are roles for people to fill. And there are job trajectories. I think that where a parent of a child may not support them if they want to go be an author or editor, they might understand what it means to be in hr in a huge corporate to work in the arts with a law degree or whatever it is pretty think it goes from a high to low it doesnt matter for john but a job inside of a warehouse or job at the top top. Think about operations or sales or marketing or what have you. I think we really have to start educating people about what publishing and the whole literary field. Including literary nonprofits look like for it to be equitable in some way and to be reflective of this world we live and paired we are telling the stories. We think about only the art and the artist first. But there is so much that has to happen for that art to live and to educate about those roles as well. Then maybe we can turn to the artist, nicole, ask you what your career journey was like . Was it hard for you to find traction in the industry in the beginning . Finding an agent, an edge editor, all that with your first novel . To make definitely was a challenge. With what lisa just said it demystifies the industry. I knew nothing about the industry. Im coming from public health, medical background. Sue first generation immigrant youre told thats what you ought to do. But yes i always wanted to be a writer. I did not know any writers growing up. Especially writers of colors are black writers. When i came to the u. S. , when it got into what is the program and got into one i was surprised i was a black student in that program. Long story short, we are told getting agents were hardest thing. In thinking that was the hurdle you have to jump through to get into the realm of publishing. That is far from a truth. As lisa just mentioned heathers editors, all of those things. Some of thats the right person somebody is a person i trusted because a woman in michigan would never read my book and understand what i was talking about. Being a young writer, i thought that was the end all be a that would have to do that to be successful. So i did. And of course reading luckily i had a mentor, she was the head where i had a fellowship. She called me and said let this one go. As a writer its going to be up part of the game to get rejection, sickle back to the drawing board. Getting onto the computer and submit a query for agents. Thats what ended up doing. And writing a whole new book actually. And submitted to agents. Couple weeks later, i was so happy that julia bear happen to be one of them who i fell in love with. Because one thing i was looking that of course my mentor again, very important to have mentors. One thing that she said to me as you know it, your agent is a relationship i love young writers out there shopping for an agent because thats what youre told you you ought to get to be successful. It is important to have someone who gets your work. And especially since you are black writer, black immigrant writer as well, tapping into the very, very dark issues. All these things, the person has to get it to sell the book well. I had the luck of having that happen. But the thing is, not many Publishing Houses were latching onto it. For comes a son is a hard sell. In fact, the only publishers that latched onto the book, from live report as getting messages like oats to commercial or we dont understand why young black white writer is changing her skin what is that . A gram in terms of diversifying publishing. Maybe there are more who are looking at the workings that oyo would get that, we understand the importance. Seeing the other side of the socalled paradise that people see. But i was actually of who we are in had a fantasy. I feel like nobody got that except for one woman who happens to be white. Two women who happen to be whites. There is also allies as well. One thing that happened in 2020 that i was really happy about lisas coming on now is here she is in her position. That young me did not know these people. They knew nothing about that. Now we are more we are here this level these individuals are in higher positions. I interviewed dana kennedy two weeks ago for magazine and she said you know things have to happen from the top. I know it has a trickledown but the trappers were happens first. So i honestly believe, sitting at that top. Looking at people your rights coming into the game. If you could see yourself with other people you can do it as well. You can achieve that because their people behind those cool stories who are ready for you. Thats wre i am coming from. Right thank you. If i was a bit in the industry for some time, 40 years, why has the industry been so very slow to diversify . And what other initiatives need to be developed to achieve greater inclusivity . Theres so much fake news out there about publishing in general. Publishers have done such a lousy job accounting for and describing the industry. Many begin by saying the publishing with literary publishing. Se, is a nonstarter. Because publishing is a huge universe of categories that most people dont Pay Attention to. The press is mostly interested in literary and commercial fixtures. I think publishers can increase diversity and inclusion in categories and multiplicity of function. So i echo what lisa says, that along every aspect of the publishing chain, we should think about it reflecting america. Reflecting how america looks. Right now the emphasis is strictly on decisionmakers. And that should not be. If its going to be on decisionmakers, it needs to be on decisionmakers in publicity, and marketing, and sales, and in the bookselling community. That is very true. And it is such a enormous industry. Id like for a moment to turn towards the very current moment we are existing in. And i think we can agree it is sort of a unique moment in time. Or a special moment right now that in recent weeks, black authors including isabel wilkerson, chris bennett, abrams kennedy, and many others have surged the top of the bestseller list. I know we wish all of us, id not been brought on by this racial reckoning that took place in the aftermath of the murders of innocent black people, george floyd, breonna taylor, but is this moment actually feel different to you . Or we keep going theo. Does it still feel like you think this one is going to last . Does it feel like a moment . What can white and black publishing professionals do to continue to sustain recognition of authors of color . So its not just a blip that winds down. I dont believe that reflection of the history of publishing. Books by black writers were hugely popular in the 60s and 70s. During the Civil Rights Movement during the black power movement. There in a moment where the narrative is still being defined to a certain degree by people of power. Those books are on the bestseller list are there mostly to educate whites. Okay . Whites had taken on these books is that they were selfhelp programs. I bum interest in these books hold tenuate. But i do think there on the bestseller list as increased interest in acqu