We are so grateful to explore resident candies earlier years in depth with our distinguished speakers this evening. This is the first major work about president kennedy and many years. We have been anticipating this for some time. Much of professor Frederik Logevall took place in the kennedy archives. We are very pleased to learn more about this comprehensive new look at president kennedys formative years. Im now delighted to introduce tonight speakers, were so glad to welcome Frederik Logevall back to the Kennedy Library virtually. He is the professor for International Affairs and professor of history at harvard university. A specialist on u. S. Foreign relation history and modern International History prehe is the author or editor of nine books including jfk, coming of age and the American Century, 1917 1956 is freds newest book. I am also pleased to extend a warm welcome to george our moderator for this evening. His nonfiction books include our men, Richard Holbrook in the end of the American Century. A finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. The unwinding, 30 years of american decline, which won eight National Book award. The assassins gate, america and iraq. And the liberal spirit is also the author of two novels in a play. An editor of a twovolume edition of the essays of george orwell. Please join me in welcoming our special guests. Welcome everybody. I see theres at least a couple hundred of you which is fantastic. It would be a privilege and a pleasure to talk to Frederik Logevall tonight and get our heads out of the present and in out of the news for an hour or an hour and a half into the past which is a great refuge as well as a guide for us as we try to navigate one of the stormy and steers in our lives. , i know you as the author of two essential books on the vietnam war. And it is not just me saying that. People i knew who fought in vietnam when asked but of the books i have to read on the wor work, when i was researching my biography of Richard Holbrook who served in vietnam said, oh thats easy, choosing war and embers of war by the same guy, Frederik Logevall. So i knew you as a vietnam expert. But now i really know you as something broader as an american expert and someone who shares a lot of interest with me in American History and Foreign Policy. Its great to get to talk to but completely engrossing which is a word kennedy is in his book review, with the biography of jfk, so welcome. And welcome to our audience why another biography there are dozens without their words to know everything we would know first of all georgias tremendous to be with you. To have the opportunity to talk about all this stuff. It occurred to me just now as i was listening and away our two most recent books, mind and our man are bookends here. Mine is really the beginning of the American Century endurance is more about the latter part of the century so maybe we can talk about that. But its great to be on i think ive been fastening by john f. Kennedy in the kennedys for a long time particular vietnam and volume two that vietnam question what i call the mother of all factuals what he would have done in vietnam patties should survive would get attention. Partial interest in the kennedys, partly a sense that hidden one day in the yard is writing a book that was a biography. He could also use my training as a historic to tell the story not just of his rise, but of americas rise to superpower status huge comic of course died in 63 which is arguably prior to the mass of vietnam. With those two things may be a third george, which is that the materials in the library and i knew this the toasting tonights events are so big. I thought a lot of them had not been tapped by a lot of people. Theres something kinda fresh about them. And in a sense the biographies are out there. But nobody is really done, i think the kind of comprehensive life and times that i am trying to do here. Even though you knew about the libra because of your Vietnam Research . Speed it yes i about it from the work of vietnam. I knew it from the extent of some other researchers, graduate students of mine and others who said you know, credible folders, files, documents in the library. Some of them used, a lot have not been used all that much. Then those things come availabl available. So yes it was partly because of my own private research, no question. Host s you actually zeroed in on documents that you knew they were there what you committed yourself to this project. Like you said im going to box 291 out of the 73 because i know what is they are no ones ever it. Guest obviously some of this in terms of specific collections of specific folders i had to see them myself. See them up close. But i knew for example david nasas terrific biography of joe senior, i was able as historians we all do this and you do it yourself. We look to see what other people have done. To see what david and a few other people have done in particular collections. Some which had not been open and available prior to work. And then, one of the marvelous things about the library even a relatively small percentage of the collections have been digitized, nevertheless, some great stuff, george. You can anybody can access from their couch. There is stuff available that you can see without having to darken the doorways of this library. It is a great collection. Host so how did you approach these long genre of biography since i dont think you had written one. Its not the same thing as the history of war. Or the history of even two years decisionmaking about a war. It is more of a i would say its a little closer to the problems it in front a novelist. You have to fill the book with characters. Especially with one character and bring that character to lif life. I think all the harders people think they know that character. So how did you approach the genre, the un known genre biography. What models did you use . What guidance that you give yourself as you figured out how to research and write it . Guest it is so interesting. Given that you yourself is authored novels you have a sense of what you are describing here. That is totally fascinating to me for your quite right history and biography are not the same thing. Ive come to realize just how different they are in some ways. Of course there are some important similarities. Its about finding evidence. It is about trying to figure out what happened. In this case centered on a particular life. But there are similarities here between this work and the work that ive done previously. But as you say they are also different. I think i had been fascinated by the kennedys. It is in some ways the Great American story. This family is just an extraordinary one. I begin the book with the arrival of both the kennedys and the fitzgeralds and middle part of the 19th century. Then of course, joes rise in particular i would say joe senior chris huge family this marriage to rose, jack is a sickly child emerges from this. I wont say the story would write itself as it turns out they never do. I thought this had Great Potential for me as a historian. But also someone who is interested in biography and wants to see if i can make this work. Both killing two narratives at the same time. Both kennedy story. In americas story. Can i just ruefully toss this back to you because you have this experience, george, how would you answer your own question . Consider how you approach this with respect to our man . Stu and i had a different problem. By the time my book came out, it was a fading figure in American Foreign policy. He kind of dominated many news events in his lifetime. But he was not on the scale of jfk, not close. He actually first went into the Foreign Service under jfk, he was called to service that inspired hobart to join the service. I felt that i needed to grab the reader with the first paragraph and never let that reader go. Or else they would abandon the project. Because who cares . That was my great fear, who cares . You didnt have that problem, people care about jfk. I began my book about holbrook in the voice of a novelist. Even though the book has 35 pages of notes and it is as accurate as i could possibly make it, beginning holbrook yes i knew him as if youre about to hear a long yarn by racketeer who knew holbrook. That is the voice that carries the entire book. He gave me a ton of freedom to do things that traditional biographies dont do. But always within the guidelines of the contract with the reader is that all has to be true. So i tried to make it sound like just a great yarn that you would want to sit down and hear through storytelling. United talked about this a little bit before. I think it just succeeds marvelously but we were on the show together is great fun to talk about this. Just one thing i may come of eisai think in the early pages which i thought about it would be fun to talk about a little bit, i am paraphrasing i did not have a chance to read this before he came on. You Say Something like only infection can we ever get to know a person, deep inside. Ive thought about that because jack kennedy, many people so this is truly elusive. Some people warned to be early on, youre never going to be able to get close to this guy because of that nature of the parents. He has some of his mothers emotional patterns. You are so right in this nettie hope, readers will have to tell me if im right about this. I do think i can get, given your parameters that only infection can we ever really know, i hope i get fairly close. I think you do. I wrote this to you personally and i think it is sitting on the book jacket now, this brings us close to jfk. It is really an intimate pictur picture. Should talk about how you should achieve that. I think we will find this is engrossing, it is a page turner and that is because you are always right there in the middle of the scene or very close to the characters. And yes, that he is ironic attached and observing his own life and everyone else. That is his character. But the things that created that character, i did not understand very well until i read your boo book. So lets talk about that. But two things at once. Your book does not begin but history begins the month before we enter. This is an interesting parallel to mine because holbrook was born in 1941 which is that other year the American Century began we entered world war ii. So tell me about your decision to frame jfks life is the life of the American Century beginning in 1917 what that means for our understanding of americas rise to global power. I think it may have been ernest may delete great historian, member of this department than i am now in. but earnie said, noing. In fact, americas contribution the war in 1917 and 1918 was formidable, and because of the degree to which the european powers were decimated by that great conflagration so wasnt fully evident at the time, segue gracious, farsited europeans in other words it was only a time before the americans would be dominant on the world stage and in a sense, there was a delay in the 20s in and 0s, american leaders were not sure what they wanted to. Do i write about is in the poock. Want the responsibility on leadership. Man not itch still feel comfortable in saying that 1917 is absolutely critical to the American Century for two reasons. U. S. Entry into the war and then the bolshevik revolution and is crucial to Jack Kennedys life. The cold war that defined kennedys public life began in 1917. The true powers of the cold war, their trajectory in collision with each other bannin 1917. You could make that argument and i sometimes stay to students, ask them when did the cold war given you look at the characteristics of the cold war, i a how many of those characteristics were present in 1917 . It turns out that maybe only two or three of them with. One might be a deep ideological schism but some thing wiz associate with the cold war, which is great arms race, for example, suppression of internal dissidence and we see that after world warring 1 in the out and the soviet union. A bipolar world structure. Some may not be present in 1917 but ive had very smart students make a compelling case for 1917 as the start date of this power confrontation. You have a preconception but jfk going into this . Did you have a picture of him that we were going to then draw or did you begin relatively agnostic . I think i had a sense a really interesting question. I think i had a sense even when i began for my work on indochina and the fact he had visited in 1951 and the binges of embers of wars. And did he asks penetrating questions what the french are trying to achieve issue think i had a sense that the common view of the Young Jack Kennedy as a callow, kind of playboy, who had everything handed to him, who wasnt very serious but anything, and only later became mature striving politician. Had a sense that was maybe not correct. And i think that the research that i did again, the materials materials in the library are so marvelous, i think show beyond a doubt this ailes guy who from an early age is serious about policy, deeply curious about the world. So that sort of a half answer. I guess suggesting i haded a inclining i wanted to revise what was common view and i think that the Research Supports this. I think some of the most riveting pages are young jacks trip to europe in 1939, when europe is moving rapidly toward war and he is having a mix of a kind of rich boys vacation along with access to the most important counsels of government across the continent, churchill, chamberlain, hitler doesnt he see hitler give a speech . No. To his regret he never did. He was there with limb billings, and they decided not to and then say shied we should have gone. But in 39 as you say, almost like a the degree to which he shows up in these places that become hot spots and i open the book, i open the preface with him in berlin in late august of 39 and he even carries a message from in the u. S. From the u. S. Consular official, the ambassador left but the senior diplomat in berlin gives him message to carry back to this father, the ambassador in britain, joe kennedy sr. , and the message says the germans are going attack poland within a week. So, you have this kind of intrepid guy. Benefiting from the fathers connects and wouldnt be able to travel to these places and see these people if joe sr. , who was already ambitious for his two sons in particular, the two eldest sons, but its also joes im sorry jfks own early striving and motivation. Lets talk but his parents and his relation to them because when i said earlier i felt i understood his character much better from your book, it was really because of especially his relationship with his father. The relationship with his mother is distant and i wouldnt be the first to say maybe the source of some of his misogyny because his mother let him down. Wasnt round for a lot of his childhood himself father wasnt either but the mother was expected to be and the father was not. But his father comps across joe ken comes across he made my feel like a lame father pause he is just constantly arranging activities and events and every day is scheduled, going yachting in the morning and football in the afternoon and Current Events at dinner and reading at night. For a man of that generation, incredibly involved in his many childrens lives and devoted to them. So that seems to me to be the core relationship for jack kennedy growing up. Is that right . I think it ultimately and is you described it really well and its an interesting joe kents persona, joe kennedy in 193435, is heading up the sec in washington, an important new government entity, and yet he pens these long letters, handwritten letters to jack, who is in his last year at choate, the prep schools. Seasons long letters hand wherein to joe jr. Who is at harvard. The younger children. Just it strikes me this is a guy who somehow managing important government policy is nevertheless instructing his children, trying to mold his children in particular the sons, more concerned, its quite clear, about them and especially the two older ones so what everyone might say about joe kennedy as a businessman, as a diplomat, ultimately disastrous turn as ambassador to britain. This devotion to his kids is something. Also say that i think rose kennedy, the mother, deserves more in some ways credit for jacks upbringing than than she is sometimes given he gets his putticcal sensibility more from her than from his father. Actually more like his mother in many ways than like his father. His International Sensibility comes in part from her i suggest in the book, but she is emotionally withdrawn, she leads a kind of separate life through all of hill illnesses at choate, first prep school and then at choate, she never pays a visit. I think she comes once to canterbury and never comps to choate and take extended vacation biz herself, including to europe. Its i thing that was hard for him. You say at one point what do you expect from a woman whose husband is flagrantly cheating on her throughout their marriage, and humiliating her by bringing mistresses home for dinner and of course she will withdraw. The alternative is tofight all the time maybe to leave and those are not alternatives she wants to inflict on herself or her family and two against her religion. So the way out is emotional withdrawal. I think thats exactly right and i think they i suggest in the book they have a kind of arrangement which is that he is going to be more dissecrete in his affairs than maybe he was early on. And she is going to kind of look the other way and thats what happens here. Has a notorious affair with Gloria Swanson in hollywood and i think on some level he comes to realize i cant continue to do this. But youre so right, when you think about what he has so endure and think but his view of his object fying women and seeing them as objects to conquer its a hard environment for her. Where does jacks am Mission Comes from ambition come from . Your book makes its clear it wasnt simp