Good evening im director of the wisconsin book festival thank you for being here tonight. We are absolutely delighted to be hosting larry for his book a demagogue. He will appear alongside john nichols the Capital Times and the nation and magazine. We could not be more delighted all spring and summer long on the podcast channel to say a moment to say thank you with the Public Library foundation was supports the online cultural events has been unwavering. These have been unwavering and so dedicated to bring author events watching in your home in madison across the globe seeking the incredible uptick of our audience from all over and it is absolutely wonderful. Thank you to everyone who is here tonight all the sponsors to make sure these events keep going and now i will step away myself. Thank you for joining us. Larry, thanks for coming all the way from massachusetts. I met cape cod as we speak and close to 100 people will join us as we go along we will take questions. I will ask larry some questions at the start and then we will invite questions and wherever you take it we are excited to go there. His books are journalism. And living in a time when journalism is under attack with your political figures and the economic forces of the moment in which we live in the challenges we face. It is a great honor to be with another journalist and someone who has practiced the craft and exciting ways. And talking tonight about a new book, demagogue which is his book on joe mccarthy the former senator from wisconsin but those that are worthy of your attention, his biography of Bobby Kennedy was brilliant and took kennedys journey to new and exciting places. It was a vital contribution and with the evolution of this country and fundamental ways. And the favorite is rising from the rails and im a huge fan and was chairman of the march and washington and then just capture that brilliantly is highly recommended but we are here tonight to talk about a brilliant new book, demagogue. I noticed in your other biographies you have the name of the person but in the case of joe mccarthy who chose a word, demagogue. Why was that quick. Before answer the question, question, john is one of the many people i interviewed for this book and two things stood out. Number one, the youngest person i interviewed when i tried to get a sense of people who knew the mccarthy era and new John Mccarthy and the other was among the smartest people i interviewed. Any of you who you are wisconsin readers know his work from the nation and having somebody who was as tune do not just to mccarthy but the mccarthy context in the nation was extraordinary. The reason i picked the wine world title is because this is a book about the love affair until today and that the subtitle capture the sense front and center was low blow joe mccarthy but to see him in the context. And the first 70 years after the beginning of his crusade is because he was the archetype for this demagogue figure in history thats a longwinded explanation. We are here to listen to what you have to say. So in the title you use the term the long shadow john on of mccarthy so what do you mean . Is at the impact of what he did but the broader notion of the demagogue quick. He cast a long shadow because of the impact of what he did for the orchestrator of this whole movement of mccarthyism and also to say we just cant stop or George Wallace those are in the political context today. And the temptation with the interviews i have been doing on joe mccarthy is talk about donald trump Donald Trumps name is mentioned only in the preface and the epilogue and the story of other demagogues. And to avoid a deep discussion but tell me when you started to put this book together it was at the start of the presidency. And that was biography of barack obama and then i realized we will not know Barack Obamas legacy until after the era of trump is over then it became apparent to me that after the election and that is the story of today we have not outgrown one outgrown in the way they hope we had. Lets get into the book a little bit but you take a casual approach in referring to him. I guess the way is to say when you read the book that has a wonderful narrative, and has a great stream going through it. May be sitting out in front of somebodys house with some lawn chairs to tell a long story. And its very human in so many ways. If you are writing a biography of somebody can we have to humanize them and that they are getting into the spirit of this persons life and who you think of as a hero and villain. The same way Bobby Kennedy i talk generally using the word bobby was a conscious decision but this is a lot of joe to get in to see him from the inside. What did you see . On the one hand, i want to go back to a quote one of the reasons i had joe mccarthy in the back of my head ever since i did my research on Bobby Kennedy but the one person of those that i interviewed for the book that was irreplaceable and is replaceable bobbys widow and she said something about mccarthy i cannot get out of my head that joe mccarthy might be a monster too much of america but to bobby and me he was just plain good fun the idea of joe mccarthy was counterintuitive to me. And then to cause wisconsin to overwhelmingly elect them into statewide elections that i wanted to understand. So i came out of this book feeling on the one hand joe mccarthy became much more of a human being as opposed to the caricature we study in history books