Have ordered a copy of the book, please consider grabbing one nationally, internationally, Curbside Pickup thats open now at limited capacity. Heads up, weekends are busy. The share guidelines and also some to the books. Easy access to purchase. Remember your purchase goes towards our staff. Our guest for the night will be joining us on the screen. We will take questions from the audience to please submit your questions below. If youre looking below all the way to the right, lucy little bubbles, thats where you should put them. We will try to keep track of all the questions. Also, if youre watching via facebook, submit your questions on the comment field and well go from there. I like give a warm welcome to our guest for the night, eddie, phd is an associate professor of Higher Education and organizational change at ucla. College president and the struggle for black students published by Princeton University press. You can find him on twitter at eddie. Also phd, historian of black womens history intellectual history and racial politics. Assistant professor in the department of history and in studies at the university of texas in austin. The author of remaking black power, how black women transformed era, published by the press and you can find her twitter at doctor ashley. Please help me welcome from ho home, eddie and ashley. Thank you for being here tonig tonight. Hello. Can you hear me . Yes. All right. Welcome, everybody. We are excited to have everybody here. Im going to dig into our conversation because this is a wonderful immediate book and theres so much to discuss throwing want to make sure we get a chance to hit on all the wonderful dynamics in the book. I like to ask people when they first start, how did you get into writing this book . When did the idea come to you . Is it something marinating, and aha moment we set up in the middle of the night . Tell us one challenge and one treat of writing. First off, everyone tuning in, thank you for joining, happy to be in this conversation. Great question and that it is the answer i continue to grapple with. An idea for a book comes from so many Different Directions. On a macro level, i like to say the idea started in my hometown in alabama. Small town, west alabama and bring county, total population of less than 400. This is where i grew up in my home county, growing up in the rural south, we had one Public High School in our entire county. The next town over, i remember every day going to school, i was turning left and my high school, all black to the right, but if you elect, it was the private academy is always interested in how even in my own experience in my lifetime, schools had segregation in the black Freedom Movement and how everyday i was going through this routine. There were no protests, nobody cared, frankly, it was just a norm but it was always in my mind, we be at practice outside and we would hear one school over there, they could hear us backandforth, is one of those things where it was think about educational leader and decisions they made in the past and how they shape our present that was the initial idea in the back of my head even as a teenager but as a team, wasnt taking that deeply about it, or write a book on it. It happened over time, is more about my own experience, black School Experience, School Desegregation and segregation, i came to realize more and more these educational leaders want at the the of the state exclusively, they were actively involved in shaping the School Experience to policy, practices, Community Organizing over time, that is where the idea marinating in it is about a decade ago, see occupy wall street movement. We got there, i saw College Campuses and how they were responding to that activism, and moving in 22015 in the university of missouri, the rest of the nation, you can go list all and then i started thinking seriously about how this worked, i wanted to know how it worked historically. In 2015, it didnt come out of nowhere. Its one of those things for the idea came from Different Directions from watching things unfold in my own life as well as professionally. Then its one thing to have an idea and another to actually do it so one unexpected challenge, 1980s and 60s, those restrictions in the archives. Its almost as if 50, 60 years ago, the College President knew from the decisions they were making would not be seen, having decade restrictions on somethi something, most often the longest being 50 years, if i wanted to write it ten years ago, i wouldnt have been able to so a lot of records were just being released in 2010, 1960420. Five it comes to the chancellors, so that was the challenge. Just trying to get my timing right going back to some archives. Ill be back in a couple of years. That was an unexpected challenges but a unique treatment just to wrap up and address the question, our unique treat in writing this book was thinking about the vulnerability, the human aspect of who some of these College President work. One example, dan, special assistant president in the 60s just after on the anniversary this week, just after the bombing in birmingham, alabama, four black girls were killed as well as two additional later that day. It was a horrific moment within American History and to see them writing a letter to another late at night, the details, i just cant sleep tonight knowing what has happened nationally, the segregation white supremacist governor is coming to princeton to give a speech. Do you see this personal versus professional conflict happening getting a chance how they are and how the decisions are quite complicated, that remains a treat to writing this book, i tried to do the human aspect justice to it. I like that you say that because one of the things you and what is the conclusion that maybe we should see College President s as elected officials, in a way and that dichotomy youre talking about needing to influence policy, the base of something but also when theres product conflict, that is a tugofwar elected officials have to deal with. I thought it was a little provocative, we live in a world we think of the university, for better and worse, the life of the mind. Why do you think looking at College President s are speaking of them has them as a useful frame to understand both them as people and maybe them as a decision that they make . It is quite useful, it reveals a couple things. It reminds of the numerous stakeholders they have to interact with. It varies campus to campus, the way it is for me, two different worlds. Ucla in the capital this relationship the legislature is different so one thing that reveals on some campuses, they are in tune and they have a strong relationship. Other instances, theyre down and i look everyday in the news, whos pushing this decision around . And a pandemic so its telling when you think of elected officials navigating their position as a public figure, if you will. The mission and the question, all the issues were dealing with right now and back to policy. We are talking about campus relationship with Police Departments, their own Police Department and city police, student debt and racial disparities, bases incidences on campuses, we could list all these issues but when we think about the issues we look for our elected officials who have the same issues on the college campus, chancellor. Ultimately, we are looking toward people but we dont think about it in the same way as shaping and molding policy. I think thats incredibly important to remember because these universities are not just reactive to these social issues, they actively involved in shaping a number of issues in College President s is ultimately, they come across their desk. I love that because as i was reading the book, i was thinking to myself, i the president of power in public universities, im not sure i always thought about it where i went at a private university or one that is not located in an urban city so that it was provocatively thinking about how power works on a physical campus but also a city of an ecosystem. One thing that was really great, for those of you who havent played it yet, historically black colleges and universities, he learned about were nominally white colleges like princeton, he learned about public universities, private universities, etc. I wondered if there were things you found that united oaks to present, now i think of them as a secret society or club player together and planning things after reading the book in a way i didnt think of before. Where did they find Common Ground or fight figuratively or literally . Something that united all of these president s is, regardless of their region, i found that person of academic leadership, it is one thing you want to be department chair, its another to be a dean. We get to president or chancellor, all of these visuals in the book were very much committed leaving their legacy, leadership imprint on moving the University Forward in addressing the issues as well. For them, that think that united them was to come and challenge. The book covers from the 40s to the 60s and look over the middle decades of the century, they are all faced with the race question. It is hard to argue something that is as pressing or complicated as that. Regardless of the Institution Side its become fascinating they have this shared issue that they are divided and the differences in how they address it or what is the importance if you will. Thats where you see drag out fights with compelling interactions in the book. One example i give is inhalant. South, atlantic, also regional identity happening so its segregated doesnt have the history of the union like other states, it has this uniqueness and one thing that happens between president of the university of maryland and jenkins, the president of Morgan State College in baltimore, a fight between the two over segregation and who gets what funding and what goes where and university of maryland but if they do, academic support go for the Historical Black College . Youve got those real differences when it comes down to okay, we all agree our shared challenge is racism ultimately in society but we dont agree on what to do with it so becomes one of the unique things you look across the region seek to say, even when you look at our relationship between say foster, the president of the institute and alabama being in conversation with the president of the university of michigan. We just dont think about michigan in partnership, in communication with each other. Its one of the more fascinating things you do a book like this and you see correspondence on one hand, who dont know the conversation came out and then you go to another and say oh, here is the conversation and heres the back and forth multiple conversations and how people say one thing, they heighten each other up back and forth. Youre like we are not doing this partnership. It is very telling of the black weed improvement as we look for the education, a Significant Location for cultural advancement. Out of curiosity, do you think today the college is racism is the defining thing they have to deal with has really changed or, i can imagine these conversations about segregating, university of mississippi, i understand we are not segregating the same way but incidences stuff happening is quite similar. Everybody is on the run, im wondering if you still think it is safe. I would say yes, privately. Id say among themselves, in conversation, and i would love to hear, ive spoken with enough of them, but i would say yes, privately, there is a shared concern. Racial implications of a number of things that are happening right now but publicly, not so much. I think about the service where they have a chance to respond a system, the issue on campus, there is a ridiculous fivemember, 80 to 85 who say no, it is not an issue but if you asked students across the nation the same question, maybe 80 85 would say yes, there are racial issues on campus are those two groups seeing things differently . Historical record, across the nation tells us if theres any indication that yes, behind closed doors, fair concerned about grace, particularly as we go into these heightened racial motions into the election. It is just interesting. One of the things that struck me about the book is because you have politics of the center, elected officials and politicians, that means you have to make deals and coalitions with people that are somewhat unlikely and there are moments where i was like well, i didnt see that College President being on board for taking a deal with this particular segment of the university or the surrounding area. Im wondering if you might be able to tell us an example of how College President s have these fellows in order to get deals done were move and initiative forward. So much of it was in the book but two in particular stand out to me at all. University of california system, even if you are not even familiar at all, its just a really Large University with multiple campuses. We talk about thousands of students and there is a president who is head of the system and campus has a chancellor. That alone sounds complicated, right . Imagine how complicated it was when they were building the system in the 60s and 50s. Theres one thing i did not see unfolding, university of california, california is so large, it has its own sub regional loyalty within the state. If youre in North Carolina north california versus south carolina, ucla franklin murphy, chancellor from 1960 68. He has taken the chancellor job at ucla because the first time, your report to a system president instead of direct to our board of trustees. Hes hesitant about taking a position but you see murphy at ucla in these relationships with a number of powerful socal influencers. People run and people have aircraft, coming out of world war ii. He makes unique relationships so all of a sudden, the board of regents and ucla willing to go along with everything murphy says looking back up north and same here is how youre going to vote on this ticket issue. Another example, Princeton University in the 60s, eddie tyson, a black pastor of church, which is significant. Actually its on the same team, as usual, the trustee at princeton, also rockefeller the third, also owned princeton board of trustees. In 63, it all comes together and agreed universities should address on these racial issues in the township. A pastor of an ame church going over the same thing these national or International Figures on the board of trustees legal scholars there by interest conversions, it becomes the perfect example to her everybody all of a sudden hes from a global perspective the u. S. Reputation struggles with grace as they give the nudge to say okay, we need at least two quote for the image that we are doing a lot more to address racial inequities and racism in america. Talk about strange relationshi relationships, i always say if youre going to study historical records, there is no campus decision there is a little piece of information that goes in those archives. That makes you wonder, what are they doing as we speak to one thing your naming pastors and regions, this seems to be a male centered story. Black women, it leaves me wondering, how did women factor into this . How should we understand them in this . Today influence . Absolutely. I think that is one of the most crucial aspects that i wanted to focus on, the history of the black Freedom Movement, we are talking about you know from your work over the years now, there are so many significant roles for women in. From an informal standpoint, morgan state, historically black College Public the public hbcus, he has to play a bit of a game engaging the leadership but what significant is so Many Networks he taps into, you want to talk about black fraternity and sorority gauges these groups on so many levels in the book, it is clear black women are still significant to the overall of support in the picture, that is, to becoming president in 1948, oftentimes we talk about in the 60s, similar demonstrations unfolding in baltimore in 1940, led by two black women specifically, longtime president of that team, these two black women theres the protest movie theaters, all these in the 40s and 50s and jenkins arrives as this is happening and is in constant communication talks about jenkins with an Honorary Degree and commitment morgan state talking about all the things shes done for the nation. As you think about jenkins as a formal title, taking it from black women from industries organizing so many different organizations and so forth and then also his wife, elizabeth, being a member of the sorority and commissions there throughout the east coast and nation so jenkins at fraternity and Sorority National conventions and that sort of thing because he is a scholar train out of Northwestern University and produces ridiculous amounts. He did in the 30s and 40s so yes, if you look at the title the College President notice the timeframe but in reality, when you really read it, you see the many ways women shape all of these things. Have to mention the president of the college also, historically black womens college, the first black woman president of a four year college. A twoyear institution, its so significant. By harsh she is the president of the book in the 19 and support student activists and being engaged in stepping back from her privileges as a College President in solidarity with the students. You can go chapter to chapter and its not just women,